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Boeing NLA

carsinamerica

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This shows the Boeing NLA (New Large Airplane) as configured in 12/1994. This is the triple-bubble fuselage configuration. There was supposedly a stretched version of this aircraft, length of "over 90 m," which was to seat 750 passengers. I've never seen any pictures of that. Has anyone else?

Basic specs, per Norris, Guy. (21 December 1994). "NLA Upper Deck Finalised." Flight International.

Fuselage length: "almost 70 m"
Wingspan: 79.2 m
MTOW: 454,000 kg
Pax: 600
Range: 12,600 km (6,800 nmi)

Images:
* In flight art from Norris & Wagner, Giant Jetliners.
* Interior layout from a book on 747s (I can't remember which one).
* 3-view from Aviation Week & Space Technology article.
 

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carsinamerica

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An alternative configuration of the Boeing NLA. This, I found on the internet. It appears to show the interior layout of a single-deck version of the NLA with 10 main-deck exits, and talks about crew rest and galley being in the "crown space." It's a much lower capacity than the other NLA studies I've seen reported, seating only 485 passengers.

To be honest, I'm a bit suspicious of its authenticity, because of its low passenger count (for an NLA study), very high seat pitches for premium seating (which are typically later than the early 1990s), as well as the font change on the passenger count and the too-crisp lines on the fuselage outline. However, it does have a Boeing design model number, PA797-3I-5, which could probably be verified.

I have no idea what the exterior configuration of this aircraft was. Any ideas?
 

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carsinamerica

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This version of the NLA is often described as not being the NLA at all, but rather the VLCT (Very Large Commercial Transport). It ran concurrently to the 747-X studies. This seems to be the aircraft that Norris and Wagner refer to in Airbus A380, talking about an aircraft being discussed in September 1991 with "four 777-size engines and had a fuselage cross-section of 27 feet, 9 inches, in diameter." (p. 22). This seems to imply a circular cross-section. Reportedly, it was hyped by Richard Bateman, Boeing's Project Strategy Analysis Manager, who tentatively called it the Boeing 787.

Several months later, Boeing VP James Johnson spoke about a 650-680-seater with a circular cross-section, which sounds like the same plane.

I assume that this picture originally came from Flight International, but I found it online. It's crude, but seems to be the NLA/VLCT design in Triton's original post: the door and cockpit configuration is the same. Notably, it also seems to be the aircraft described above: it has 20-abreast seating (12-abreast on the main deck and 8-abreast on the upper deck), exactly as Norris and Wagner described the 9/91 design, and its cross-section is circular. However, the crudity of the image defies further examination: if its scale is correct, then the wingspan is only about 222 feet if the fuselage is 27.75 ft in diameter.

Edit: Note that the upper picture in the image is the DASA A2000, a triple-decker design study from the same time with a similar layout and planform, but an ovoid fuselage.
 

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carsinamerica

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George Allegrezza said:
Upper pic on last post is the Airbus A2000 study -- did you mean to post that?
Yeah, I guess I could have cropped it out, but I thought it might also shed light on where the article came from.
 

Foo Fighter

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An interesting upsizing of the Dreamliner project, visually at least.

Curious that so little is heard lately about the environmentally friendly aviation fuel that was being carped about so much by Richard Branson and his Virgin airlines group.
 

trexslee

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This version of the NLA is often described as not being the NLA at all, but rather the VLCT (Very Large Commercial Transport). It ran concurrently to the 747-X studies. This seems to be the aircraft that Norris and Wagner refer to in Airbus A380, talking about an aircraft being discussed in September 1991 with "four 777-size engines and had a fuselage cross-section of 27 feet, 9 inches, in diameter." (p. 22). This seems to imply a circular cross-section. Reportedly, it was hyped by Richard Bateman, Boeing's Project Strategy Analysis Manager, who tentatively called it the Boeing 787.

Several months later, Boeing VP James Johnson spoke about a 650-680-seater with a circular cross-section, which sounds like the same plane.

I assume that this picture originally came from Flight International, but I found it online. It's crude, but seems to be the NLA/VLCT design in Triton's original post: the door and cockpit configuration is the same. Notably, it also seems to be the aircraft described above: it has 20-abreast seating (12-abreast on the main deck and 8-abreast on the upper deck), exactly as Norris and Wagner described the 9/91 design, and its cross-section is circular. However, the crudity of the image defies further examination: if its scale is correct, then the wingspan is only about 222 feet if the fuselage is 27.75 ft in diameter.

Edit: Note that the upper picture in the image is the DASA A2000, a triple-decker design study from the same time with a similar layout and planform, but an ovoid fuselage.
That superjumbo design in the bottom half of that picture and in Triton's post was originally designated the N650 by United Airlines back in 1991 and perhaps the first of the 100+ NLA/VLCT/747-X designs. The largest of these 747-X/NLA designs had a wingspan of 290 feet, seating for at least 800 passengers, 24 main landing gear wheels, and a maximum takeoff weight of up to 1.7 million pounds. Speaking of which, has anyone found any pictures of the 800 seat 747-X design?
 
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trexslee

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Artist's impression of Boeing New Large Airplane (NLA) concept press photo found on eBay.

Source:
Before this plane design was called the NLA, the VLCT, or even the 747-X, it was originally called the N650 by United Airlines in 1991. (UPDATE) In my first comment on this thread, I mentioned that Boeing had once considered a 747-X/NLA design that would have a 290 foot wingspan and would seat at least 800 passengers, and carsinamerica mentioned the same plane design in the Boeing airliner and transport projects thread. I think this could possibly be it.
614188
 
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carsinamerica

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Before this plane design was called the NLA, the VLCT, or even the 747-X, it was originally called the N650 by United Airlines in 1991. (UPDATE) In my first comment on this thread, I mentioned that Boeing had once considered a 747-X/NLA design that would have a 290 foot wingspan and would seat at least 800 passengers, and carsinamerica mentioned the same plane design in the Boeing airliner and transport projects thread. I think this could possibly be it.
View attachment 614188
I think I remember reading that this was just an artist's conception by British Airways of what their hypothetical superjumbo might be. I'm not sure it was any concrete plan by Boeing.
 

trexslee

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Before this plane design was called the NLA, the VLCT, or even the 747-X, it was originally called the N650 by United Airlines in 1991. (UPDATE) In my first comment on this thread, I mentioned that Boeing had once considered a 747-X/NLA design that would have a 290 foot wingspan and would seat at least 800 passengers, and carsinamerica mentioned the same plane design in the Boeing airliner and transport projects thread. I think this could possibly be it.
View attachment 614188
I think I remember reading that this was just an artist's conception by British Airways of what their hypothetical superjumbo might be. I'm not sure it was any concrete plan by Boeing.
Now that I think of it, you're probably right. And I think it might actually even be bigger than the largest 747-X/NLA design I was talking about. There's also a picture of this same plane in the unbuilt experimental and unusual 747 thread. And here's the picture of the inside of the plane. I think the seating looks to be about 16 abreast across or more.
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/attachments/465761390_o-jpg.135426/
 

Hobbes

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That BA concept has 3 decks, and comparing to the smaller aircraft in front there's enough height in that fuselage for 4-5 decks. So yes, it's rather a lot bigger than any 747 derivative.
 

trexslee

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That BA concept has 3 decks, and comparing to the smaller aircraft in front there's enough height in that fuselage for 4-5 decks. So yes, it's rather a lot bigger than any 747 derivative.
That is correct. It definitely looks big enough to have 3 decks. (UPDATE) I also know that in 2012, Emirates had also wanted to make a triple decker plane with the same number of passengers. Source: https://www.businessinsider.com/emirates-wants-triple-deck-jet-for-800-2012-11
If only there were pictures of what BA's triple decker looks like from the front and sides. :confused: If not, perhaps someone could create a more detailed and accurate version of that really big plane based on that picture. Just saying. ;)
 
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trexslee

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Any what-ifs should not be posted in projects threads.
Hello again, speaking of 3 decks, this is the fanmade triple decker Boeing XRC 1000.614900
Source:

And this is the much larger Boeing XRC 2000 ER.614901
Source:

These fanmade planes are very large, but it is possible that British Airways' superjumbo concept back in 1992 could have been even bigger because the fuselage of BA's mega plane is high enough for 4 or even 5 decks.
 

Foo Fighter

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Pretty pictures and photochopped illusions do not a workable aircraft/project make. They should not be used to illustrate a point in any thread.
 

archipeppe

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Pretty pictures and photochopped illusions do not a workable aircraft/project make. They should not be used to illustrate a point in any thread.
Why not?

Since we are talking about projects that never succeed, and this is the main reason of such forum, I think that every contribution is welcomed in order to illustrate, and so better understand somethings that never seen the light.

I wanna praise the two artworks above since they are really nice and well executed.
 

flateric

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Because we are talking about projects that never succeed, but were made by real aerospace engineers from real companies that have science behind them, and not about products of evening sketchbook efforts of enthusiasts.
 

archipeppe

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Because we are talking about projects that never succeed, but were made by real aerospace engineers from real companies that have science behind them, and not about products of evening sketchbook efforts of enthusiasts.
Dear Flateric you are right.
I think that is anyway possible to have some speculation about possible derived design, even in form of artwork, the most important thing is to clearly say that are not original engineering output.
We saw such phenomena several times, from the speculative F-20 Tigershark derivative to spacecrafts.
 

trexslee

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Pretty pictures and photochopped illusions do not a workable aircraft/project make. They should not be used to illustrate a point in any thread.
Why not?

Since we are talking about projects that never succeed, and this is the main reason of such forum, I think that every contribution is welcomed in order to illustrate, and so better understand somethings that never seen the light.

I wanna praise the two artworks above since they are really nice and well executed.
I am glad you do. ;)
 

Antonio

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I love art but, please don't forget SPF was founded as a reference for "unbuilt projects". We work hard for it, with reasonable success until this day. Fantasy post are discouraged for obvious purpose: history preservation. SPF will remain valuable depending on our efforts to keep it free from confusion.
Enthusiast art, inspired on real projects or just pure fantasy, can find its place at whatifmodellers or devian art.
Thanks for your comprehension and everybody's contribution is highly appreciated.
 

trexslee

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I love art but, please don't forget SPF was founded as a reference for "unbuilt projects". We work hard for it, with reasonable success until this day. Fantasy post are discouraged for obvious purpose: history preservation. SPF will remain valuable depending on our efforts to keep it free from confusion.
Enthusiast art, inspired on real projects or just pure fantasy, can find its place at whatifmodellers or devian art.
Thanks for your comprehension and everybody's contribution is highly appreciated.
Now I know, and I am logged into Deviantart so I got that covered. However, I am not logged into whatifmodellers. But I probably will be eventually. ;)
 

trexslee

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This configuration of the NLA/747-X was probably the largest proposed at 280 feet long, and had 3 class seating for 800 passengers, a wingspan of 290 feet, and a MTOW of 1.7 million pounds. It looks almost identical to the 763-018 but is noticeably longer.
615237
 

trexslee

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Hi,

on globalsecurity.org, there's a page that talks about the New Large Aircraft, and there's one part mentioning a future New Large Aircraft derivative that would be up to 300 feet long, which would have seating for at least 950 passengers, which would be around 150 more than the NLA design I showed in my last post on this thread, and would also be 20 feet longer.
Click below to check out the page.
New Large Aircraft - GlobalSecurity.org
 
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MaxLegroom

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That's an article about such large aircraft in general, not Boeing's design in particular. It also seems to have been written a long time ago, perhaps somewhere around 2010. They were considering what was possible, and some of the problems involved. There is, for example, no mention of the way that even Emirates are beginning to back away from this sort of large aircraft.
 

trexslee

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That's an article about such large aircraft in general, not Boeing's design in particular. It also seems to have been written a long time ago, perhaps somewhere around 2010. They were considering what was possible, and some of the problems involved. There is, for example, no mention of the way that even Emirates are beginning to back away from this sort of large aircraft.
That is correct. And I already know that Airbus and Mcdonnell Douglas also planned NLA designs of their own with the A380 being the only one flying as of today.
(UPDATE) I think that Boeing's version of a possible 300 foot long New Large Aircraft probably could have looked pretty much like a longer version of the 280 foot NLA/747-X design that has been posted by me here on this thread.
 
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trexslee

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Hi,

Has anyone found anymore NLA, VLCT, 747-X, or UHCA designs that I haven't seen yet? Or have you found them all? When you find one, let me know, OK?
 
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trexslee

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Hi,

I have read somewhere on a document about the Airbus A380 called "A Giant Takes Off" about Boeing and Airbus planning a VLCT that would have seated supposedly at least 1000 passengers, which would have been just about double the 3-class capacity of the current A380. This possible 1000+ seat plane would have to have been well over 300+ feet in length, making it much larger than the largest NLA/747-X design proposed by Boeing which was only 280 feet.

Source:
 

carsinamerica

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Hi,

I have read somewhere on a document about the Airbus A380 called "A Giant Takes Off" about Boeing and Airbus planning a VLCT that would have seated supposedly at least 1000 passengers, which would have been just about double the 3-class capacity of the current A380. This possible 1000+ seat plane would have to have been well over 300+ feet in length, making it much larger than the largest NLA/747-X design proposed by Boeing which was only 280 feet.

Source:
That's an interesting summary of the various VLA designs, but I think it's got a couple issues. I don't think, for example, that the 1000-seat figure is a three-class arrangement. That would be an absurd design, prohibitively large. I think it's the one-class layout of something, possibly the A2000, possibly the 90 m (300 ft, basically) stretch of the NLA.
 

trexslee

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Hi,

I have read somewhere on a document about the Airbus A380 called "A Giant Takes Off" about Boeing and Airbus planning a VLCT that would have seated supposedly at least 1000 passengers, which would have been just about double the 3-class capacity of the current A380. This possible 1000+ seat plane would have to have been well over 300+ feet in length, making it much larger than the largest NLA/747-X design proposed by Boeing which was only 280 feet.

Source:
That's an interesting summary of the various VLA designs, but I think it's got a couple issues. I don't think, for example, that the 1000-seat figure is a three-class arrangement. That would be an absurd design, prohibitively large. I think it's the one-class layout of something, possibly the A2000, possibly the 90 m (300 ft, basically) stretch of the NLA.
I bet it probably might be both if you asked me. And thanks for telling me as well.
 

trexslee

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Hey guys, I think it would be awesome if several of Boeing's New Large Aircraft concept designs were made by Daron Worldwide Trading into 1/200 scale models for aviation fans to put in their airplane model collections. What do you all think?
 

hesham

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I will search when I will back from my avocation.
 

trexslee

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I think it would be cool if the Boeing NLA/747-X designs were made into 1/200 scale models by Skymarks and Hogan Wings for people to put in their airplane collections. What do you guys think? If you agree, you can let me know by replying to me. Thank you and I hope to see you soon. :) ;) :D
 

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Hello again, I read somewhere in a thread about the 747-700x on Airliners.net of an NLA design called the Boeing 747-SDD-X (SDD stands for Super Double Decker). So has anyone found any pictures of the particular design I just told you about? If you have, you can let me know.
 

trexslee

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Hi again,

I read on Issue 1 of Volume 81 of The Institution of Structural Engineers from 2003 about future VLA projects such as the 747-600X, the Airbus A380 which was still new during that time, and it even mentioned a "super 747" which would have a fuselage length and wingspan of 100 meters, and would provide 1000 seats. That particular plane could have been either a 747 derivative, or possibly a New Large Aircraft (NLA) design, which could be the biggest one ever proposed.

Link:
 
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trexslee

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Hi,

I've read on Volume 15 of Business Review Weekly about Boeing and Airbus planning a mega jet that was said to have a wingspan of 95 meters and a fuselage length of 113 meters or 370 feet long, which almost certainly would have made it the largest passenger jetliner ever contemplated, and yes, it would have been even larger than the 330+ foot 747 derivative carsinamaerica mentioned the unbuilt 747 thread. I believe that plane's fuselage would also be big enough to have 3 decks with 14 abreast seating on the main deck and 10 abreast on the upper and lower decks. The plane's 3 class capacity would have to be at least 1000 passengers with an exit limit of up to a whopping 1550 passengers, around 75-80% more than the exit limit of the current Airbus A380. Now wouldn't that crazy huge or what? :D
 
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