Boeing family of JDAMs

Ainen said:
Penetrating to invasion beaches (or attacking the invasion fleet on route) is quite apparent for the opponent, so probably it will have redundant levels of ASW.
Experience of submarines interfering with landings, in this case, is pretty disappointing - there is iirc no single case in history where subs worked against a significant landing. Dutch and Germans tried it.
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I expect the USN to wolfpack about 8 subs in on day 1 of that fight, specifically to hunt ASW escorts.


Ainen said:
Thus i guess topic of this topic - and will its carriers get a chance to get close enough to, say, mine the invasion beach, - is realistically far more relevant than subs.
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Yes and no. The wicked idea I had was the Rapid Dragon version, rolling 45 JDAM-ER Quickstrike mines out in a single drop of 90+klbs.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Yes, those would be high priority targets. Submariners aren't stupid, just crazy. But once those are gone (3 subs should do the trick), then it's time for the big stuff.
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I have serious doubts about the USN's ability to operate its SSNs in the shallow water of the straight given the prolific number of naval and militia ships likely screening any landing effort and the density of mine laying the PRC could bring to bear if it chose to.
 
Ainen said:
Penetrating to invasion beaches (or attacking the invasion fleet on route) is quite apparent for the opponent, so probably it will have redundant levels of ASW.
Experience of submarines interfering with landings, in this case, is pretty disappointing - there is iirc no single case in history where subs worked against a significant landing. Dutch and Germans tried it.

Thus i guess topic of this topic - and will its carriers get a chance to get close enough to, say, mine the invasion beach, - is realistically far more relevant than subs.
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It seems unlikely to me that any aircraft will be capable of significantly mining the Taiwan straight during a conflict except maybe the B-2. Chinese air superiority over the area is assured and it would probably take high dozens to hundreds of mines to have an impact on a landing beach. The addition of JDAM kits to the Quickstrike series of mines has made them capable of some stand off along with much more rapid high altitude emplacement. But it is still not something that could likely be done in contested airspace, let alone an opponent controlled one.
 
timmymagic said:
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I actually did read that when it came out, but I've heard nothing on the subject since 2021. Not sure what that says about the viability.
 
Josh_TN said:
I have serious doubts about the USN's ability to operate its SSNs in the shallow water of the straight given the prolific number of naval and militia ships likely screening any landing effort and the density of mine laying the PRC could bring to bear if it chose to.
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The USN operated there in WW2, in fleet boats that were almost the same length. The USN operates there now.

It will really come down to just how good the Chinese ASW effort is, versus how sneaky the US SSNs are. China has not been doing serious ASW that has been publicly reported.
 
Josh_TN said:
It seems unlikely to me that any aircraft will be capable of significantly mining the Taiwan straight during a conflict except maybe the B-2. Chinese air superiority over the area is assured and it would probably take high dozens to hundreds of mines to have an impact on a landing beach. The addition of JDAM kits to the Quickstrike series of mines has made them capable of some stand off along with much more rapid high altitude emplacement. But it is still not something that could likely be done in contested airspace, let alone an opponent controlled one.
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I was thinking C-17 flights dropping quickstrikes en masse before the balloon goes up.
 
Scott Kenny said:
The USN operated there in WW2, in fleet boats that were almost the same length. The USN operates there now.

It will really come down to just how good the Chinese ASW effort is, versus how sneaky the US SSNs are. China has not been doing serious ASW that has been publicly reported.
Click to expand...

I think the shallow water would make operating there incredibly risky. Detection at those limited depths could be a huge issue if the PRC has any kind of surprise non acoustic capability (hyperspectral, green laser, MAD, etc). Even old school induction loops could be effective. If nothing else, bottom mines could be laid anywhere across the entire length and depth of the straight. That is how I would handle it - thousands of mines on both ends with a few heavily screened channels for friendly navigation. The militia fishing boats train to deploy mines; they aren't especially capable in that regard but there are hundreds of them to employ in the effort. Given the number of possible deployment platforms, the PRC could probably establish sufficient mine fields almost overnight.
 
Scott Kenny said:
I was thinking C-17 flights dropping quickstrikes en masse before the balloon goes up.
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That would probably require the mines to have fuses that could be remotely activated, for legal reasons. Otherwise it is an act of war by itself and there would be no way to limit the mines from engaging targets immediately, outside time delayed activation. There would be no going back once they were seeded.

Though remote activation of the Quickstrike doesn't seem like a major technological hurdle. The new clandestinely deployed mines are supposedly recycled mk37 warheads mated to a mk72 TDD for Inc 1, and budget documents indicate that Inc 2 would allow remote activation (presumably acoustic modem). If the CDM Incr2 TDD could be back fit to the Mk80 series bomb bodies, then you would have a system that could be deployed en mas by cargo aircraft in a time of crisis and remain dormant until needed. But such a system is not deployed yet, far as I know.
 
timmymagic said:
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VTOL with pulse jets?! Great potential for a flying car.
Your straight pipes V8 neighbor will surely deem you as his/her favorite... for a kill.
 
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Maro.Kyo said:
Reminder that this is a JDAM thread not some random ASW/Wolfpack/"how much explosive it takes to sink a large ship" thread
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Apolgies, I get carried away. I'll refrain from futher non JDAM posts.

Perhaps we might start a separate topic concerning mining operations.
 
Josh_TN said:
Apolgies, I get carried away. I'll refrain from futher non JDAM posts.

Perhaps we might start a separate topic concerning mining operations.
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No need for any apologies. I just like keeping threads on track/topic and that was just a reminder.
 
Josh_TN said:
Would a modern day pulsejet be at all practical or cost effective in this role? It seems to me it would remove a lot of complexity and moving parts relative to a turbojet, despite the numerous other disadvantages. Reducing the cost in both money and time of production would be a key enabler in low cost stand off weapons.
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The US is working on something better called pulse detonation engines.
 
That's understandable because the aircraft has to program the GPS coordinates pre-launch with JDAM AFAIK, with Storm Shadow the missile is programmed by the ground crew pre-flight and with HARM it chases a ground emission with only a very rough launch bearing.
 

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