Boeing 737 MAX family NEWS ONLY

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Was suppose to fly middle of the year last year on a shinny new 737 Max. Pulled out to the taxiway, stopped, ran up the engines (not normal me thinks), do a complete electric reboot (me now nervous), go back to the gate. Captain says have to get folks from the hub to come fix the airplane. Everyone off to wait. Happen to catch the pilot in command in the terminal (the one with all the salad on his cap) and ask "What is broke?" His answer: "I have been flying this type of plane for years and I have never seen those faults before, especially at the same time."
Cancelled vacation right there.

The darn thing is cursed.
 
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publiusr said:
Another photo
https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/18zx9ng
View: https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/18zx9ng/new_photo_of_the_alaska_boeing_737_after/


Now, was this a door a passenger tried to force on a previous flight?
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No, this is a door which was never activated. The door itself was there, but the interior cabin panels covered everything except the window. Given this particular aircraft is said to have had pressurization issues between delivery and this incident, likely something went wrong with the door's installation and it went undetected because it was hidden.
 
Moose said:
No, this is a door which was never activated. The door itself was there, but the interior cabin panels covered everything except the window. Given this particular aircraft is said to have had pressurization issues between delivery and this incident, likely something went wrong with the door's installation and it went undetected because it was hidden.
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From what I understand, it isn't even a door in these aircraft, it's a plug inserted in the door-shaped hole in the fuselage.
 
Boeing's mid-flight blowout a big problem for company
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67906367
The immediate concern in this case is whether what happened to Flight 1282 could happen to other aircraft. The door in question is meant to be securely bolted to the fuselage using four bolts. The aircraft was only two months old, meaning simple wear and tear is unlikely to have been a factor.

That is why Alaska Airlines initially chose to ground its fleet of 737 Max 9s.

The US regulator, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) followed suit, temporarily grounding 171 aircraft for inspections.
[...]
Ed Pierson is a former senior Boeing executive who warned about problems on the 737 Max production line before the two crashes. He now heads an organisation called the Foundation for Aviation Safety, which has been scrutinising the aircraft's record.
He insisted that conditions inside Boeing's factories have not improved, and that the US regulator has been ineffective in holding the company to account.
"This is just a gigantic wake-up call", he said.
"This might just be a major blessing to have such a highly visible incident occur that will cause them to have to admit they have some serious problems."
Boeing has consistently denied such problems exist.
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More at the link.
 
Boeing shares were down over 8.4% in pre-market trading and despite a rally where they recovered to about 3.5% down they are back to being around 8% down as markets about to open.
 
At a news conference Sunday night, Homendy provided new details about the chaotic scene that unfolded on the plane. The explosive rush of air damaged several rows of seats and pulled insulation from the walls. The cockpit door flew open and banged into a lavatory door.

The force ripped the headset off the co-pilot and the captain lost part of her headset. A quick reference checklist kept within easy reach of the pilots flew out of the open cockpit, Homendy said.

The plane made it back to Portland, however, and none of the 171 passengers and six crew members was seriously injured.
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https://apnews.com/article/alaska-a...ency-landing-adb22cb835b3f561dfc9e6803773c8a6
Unclear to me what's the story with the voice recorder. Any idea?
 
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European aircraft rules were changed in 2021 so new aircraft produced in Europe had to have a 25 hour recording capacity, US requirement is still 2 hours of cockpit voice before looping. Supposedly the recorder was pulled just over 2 hours later so had no meaningful recording left as noone had thought to flip the cockpit switch to cut power to it and freeze the recording.
 
I think it was mentioned that the Quick Reaction Checklist(s) (and anything else not fastened down) was sucked out of the cockpit during the initial decompression event, so that might be an extenuating factor.
 
The Boeing 727 heritage fuselage bites again.

Yes, the Boeing 737 uses the 727 fuselage including its 1950’s certification philosophy… grandfather rights… which has previously given problems;- Bits of the 737 fuselage crown have been known to pop out giving the passengers a lovely unimpeded view of sky while they sit in their seats.

I wonder if this’ll make Boeing launch a all new 737 replacement?
 
Another detail that’s interesting, apparently Spirit Aerosystem manufactures the plug, and it’s installed by Boeing technicians. Recent Spirit screwups likely have a deeper reach.
 
Zoo Tycoon said:
Bits of the 737 fuselage crown have been known to pop out giving the passengers a lovely unimpeded view of sky while they sit in their seats.
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Ah yes. Aloha Airlines flight 243.

This mishap was attributed to corrosion, poor maintenance and high cycle fatigue. The adhesive used at the time (used in addition to rivets) apparently was an issue as it aged. While the airframe (delivered in 1969) had accumulated 35,496 flight hours prior to the accident (in 1988), those hours included nearly 90,000 flight cycles (takeoffs and landings), owing to its use on short flights. This amounted to more than twice the number of flight cycles for which it was designed. (Plagiarized from Wikipedia)

Read the NTSB Report (link)
 
aim9xray said:
Ah yes. Aloha Airlines flight 243.

This mishap was attributed to corrosion, poor maintenance and high cycle fatigue. The adhesive used at the time (used in addition to rivets) apparently was an issue as it aged. While the airframe (delivered in 1969) had accumulated 35,496 flight hours prior to the accident (in 1988), those hours included nearly 90,000 flight cycles (takeoffs and landings), owing to its use on short flights. This amounted to more than twice the number of flight cycles for which it was designed. (Plagiarized from Wikipedia)

Read the NTSB Report (link)
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Of course not, I was thinking of Southwest Flight 2294 and another on Southwest Flight 812…maybe some more?;-
 

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Voltzz said:
https://theaircurrent.com/feed/disp...s-on-plug-doors-during-737-max-9-inspections/
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At least Five aircraft with varying bolts requiring additional tightening with free moving washers and gaps you could fit a finger into speaks to general poor quality workmanship rather than a specific technical flaw. Consistent with the reports that neither plug or aircraft mounting points had suffered damage so the bolts either were lose enough to shear or were missing/unsecured in the first place.

Boeing have announced they are having a company wide safety meeting on Tuesday.

Alaska after initially carrying out checks and clearing several aircraft to fly again has now not carried any FAA compliant inspections of its own aircraft as they say they have to have their inspectors processes approved by the FAA to ensure compliance.
 
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WatcherZero said:
At least Five aircraft with varying bolts requiring additional tightening with free moving washers and gaps you could fit a finger into speaks to general poor quality workmanship rather than a specific technical flaw. Consistent with the reports that neither plug or aircraft mounting points had suffered damage so the bolts either were lose enough to shear or were missing/unsecured in the first place.

Boeing have announced they are having a company wide safety meeting on Tuesday.

Alaska after initially carrying out checks and clearing several aircraft to fly again has now not carried any FAA compliant inspections of its own aircraft as they say they have to have their inspectors processes approved by the FAA to ensure compliance.
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Supposedly the ones that Alaska initially cleared had recently gone through heavy (D) checks and this would have been looked at then. Color me not confident...
 
martinbayer said:
Isn't it ironic...
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Well, the quick reaction checklist needs a firmer attachment point... preferably in the manner of Vlad the Impaler --what with the checklist being attached to spikes inserted into the skulls of Boeing executives...a few of the latter would look nice on pitot tubes.

"Sit the suit right next to the door plugs...hand me some 8 penny nails."
 
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Alaska says they like United have now found 'loose hardware' on 'a small number of planes'.

Two mobile phones that fell from the plane have been found and turned in, they have also found a couple of wall panels and a seat head rest. They have not found any of the four securing bolts yet or the springs and some parts of the pivot but said they didnt consider the springs important to the investigation.
 
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WatcherZero said:
At least Five aircraft with varying bolts requiring additional tightening with free moving washers and gaps you could fit a finger into speaks to general poor quality workmanship rather than a specific technical flaw. Consistent with the reports that neither plug or aircraft mounting points had suffered damage so the bolts either were lose enough to shear or were missing/unsecured in the first place.

Boeing have announced they are having a company wide safety meeting on Tuesday.

Alaska after initially carrying out checks and clearing several aircraft to fly again has now not carried any FAA compliant inspections of its own aircraft as they say they have to have their inspectors processes approved by the FAA to ensure compliance.
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This reminds me of FOD issues with newly delivered KC-46s. In the sense of "stupid negligence / lack of overwatch", kinda. Also Starliner own baffling issues.
 
I'm getting a little ahead of any official findings, but safety inspectors wouldn't make the news for falsifying reports so often if their employers took some simple steps. But one of those steps involves paying additional inspectors so it won't happen.
 
Helicoprion said:
Another detail that’s interesting, apparently Spirit Aerosystem manufactures the plug, and it’s installed by Boeing technicians. Recent Spirit screwups likely have a deeper reach.
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Shouldn't Spirit be seen as - for all intents and purposes - a division of Boeing?

The workmanship issues are troubling because we don't know what else was badly manufactured. This door was only recognized beforehand because of pressurization issues. Some other flaw(s) may be simply lurking until they have their catastrophic day in the sun.
 
DrRansom said:
Shouldn't Spirit be seen as - for all intents and purposes - a division of Boeing?

The workmanship issues are troubling because we don't know what else was badly manufactured. This door was only recognized beforehand because of pressurization issues. Some other flaw(s) may be simply lurking until they have their catastrophic day in the sun.
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It really looks like the pressurization issues this aircraft experienced may be coincidental, because they went away when the crew switched to the Alt system. Real leaks would not do that.
 
TomS said:
It really looks like the pressurization issues this aircraft experienced may be coincidental, because they went away when the crew switched to the Alt system. Real leaks would not do that.
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So there's another issue with that aircraft? A pressurization issue and then the door, which is separate to the pressurization?
 
TomS said:
It really looks like the pressurization issues this aircraft experienced may be coincidental, because they went away when the crew switched to the Alt system. Real leaks would not do that.
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Indeed NTSB said in their press briefing monday they dont think the pressurisation warnings are linked to the plug failure but will keep an open mind. Currently they think the bolts either sheared or were not present in the first place/worked their way loose, fractures on the roller guides they suspect were caused by the plug when ejected and wernt a contributor to the ejection itself, also all 12 pressure pads were intact which means the plug didnt come off while in an secured state but when in an un-secured state.
 
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DrRansom said:
So there's another issue with that aircraft? A pressurization issue and then the door, which is separate to the pressurization?
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Pressurization instrumentation issues, that started the day after it came back from the WiFi installation by AAR Oklahoma City. The timing of that is highly suggestive.
 
Spirit make some parts for Airbus aircraft assembled in the US as well.

The plug is made by Spirit but ive seen many people saying its actually fitted by Boeing quite late in production, I dont know for sure.
 
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