• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

Bell aircraft and helicopter designations

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
24,275
Reaction score
1,055
My dears,

we know Bell Model-440 was developed from Model-400 with composites
components,Model-442 twin turboshaft medium weight helicopter,Model-
540 was UH-1C and Model-800 was Huey II;

Do you have information about Bell Model-640 ? please.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
24,275
Reaction score
1,055
Hi,

My dears,

I want to speak about that company from five months,and many of this company's
designs were not known.

Model-1 was XFM-1 Airacuda twin engined fighter multiplace aircarft.
Model-2 was a modification of Consolidated A-11 re-engine with an Allison liquid-cooled engine
Model-3 was single seat fighter project with tricycle landing gear and its engine was located ahead of the cockpit.
Model-4 was also single seat fighter with tricycle landing gear and its engine was located behind the cockpit.
Model-5 (XFL-1 Airabonita) was single seat light and high performance carrier based fighter.
Model-6 ------?.
Model-7 (YFM-1) not sure.
Model-8 (YFM-1A) not sure.
Model-9 and Model-10 :were developed from FM-1 as twin engined attack bomber aircraft.
Model-11 XP-39.
Model-12 YP-39.
Model-13 P-39C.
Model-14 P-400.
Model-15 P-39D.
Model-16 XP-52.
Model-17 XFM-1C.
Model-18 two seat project,no details.
Model-19 was XP-52 designed for USN.
Model-20 single seat twin boom fighter developed from XP-52 as XP-59.


[NOTE: five separate posts by hesham merged here into a single one.— Mod.]
 

lark

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Messages
1,783
Reaction score
7
Model 6 :Single engine Radio Control -type A-7 - for the Army.Proposal only

source :Cobra.Bell Aircraft Corporaton-Birch Matthews- Schiffer.U.S.
 

Andreas Parsch

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
Mar 2, 2006
Messages
245
Reaction score
1
lark said:
Model 6 :Single engine Radio Control -type A-7 - for the Army.Proposal only
If you hadn't said "Model 6", I would have been sure that this refers to the proposal to convert P-39s to target drones:
- "Single engined"
- "Radio controlled"
- USAAC designation was A-7
- "Proposal only", i.e. none were actually converted

So either the Bell model number is out of sequence, or it was an earlier proposal where "A-7" meant something completely different.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
24,275
Reaction score
1,055
Thanks to you my dears (Lark and Andreas),

and please help me in the next projects.
Model-21 was a single seat fighter developed from P-39.
Model-22 was XP-59 in finial design (not twin boom).
Model-23 was P-39E.
Model-24 -----?.
Model-25 XP-63.
 

lark

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Messages
1,783
Reaction score
7
Model 6.

The Air Corps periodically expressed interest in radio controled aircraft in one stripe or an other
usually as aerial gunnery targets.
Bell proposed a radio controlled conversion of non-first line P.39 airframes circa 1940.These may
have been some or all of the YP-39s or the 20 P-39Cs which were not considered combat ready
lacking self-sealing fuel cells and adequate armor protection.
The Army assigned the designation A-7 , the seventh in their series of power driven aerial target aircraft.
In the event , none were produced and the Model 6 design , complete with vacuum tube
electronics faded into the footnotes of aviation history.

Source: Chapter 15:paper planes-p.369.
of the excellent afore mentioned book 'Cobra-Bell a.c. corporation 1934-1946'.
 

lark

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Messages
1,783
Reaction score
7
Model 24.

Single seat interceptor XP-63 - Prototype KingCobra.
 

Andreas Parsch

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
Mar 2, 2006
Messages
245
Reaction score
1
lark said:
Model 6.

The Air Corps periodically expressed interest in radio controled aircraft in one stripe or an other
usually as aerial gunnery targets.
Bell proposed a radio controlled conversion of non-first line P.39 airframes circa 1940.These may
have been some or all of the YP-39s or the 20 P-39Cs which were not considered combat ready
lacking self-sealing fuel cells and adequate armor protection.
The Army assigned the designation A-7 , the seventh in their series of power driven aerial target aircraft.
In the event , none were produced and the Model 6 design , complete with vacuum tube
electronics faded into the footnotes of aviation history.

Source: Chapter 15:paper planes-p.369.
of the excellent afore mentioned book 'Cobra-Bell a.c. corporation 1934-1946'.
Thanks! So the "Model 6" was indeed the thing I suspected. But since the XP-39 itself was Model 11, Bell must have played a bit with their model number sequence ;D.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
24,275
Reaction score
1,055
Great thanks to you my dears,

Model-25 was P-63 Kingcobra.
Model-26 was XP-63A.
Model-27 was P-59A.
Model-28 ------?.
Model-29 ------?.
Model-30 helicopter.
Model-31 -----?.
Model-32 Light fighter bomber project led to developed XP-77.
Model-33 XP-63.
Model-34 -----?.
Model-35 XP-77A.
Model-36 was single seat fighter project.
Model-37 XS-1 experimental aircraft (not sure).
Model-38 was TP-63A.
Model-39 L-39 ? not sure.
Model-40 XP-83 Airararttler.Model-41 was P-63E.
Model-42 helicopter.
Model-43 ------?.
Model-44 was X-1.
Model-45 ------?.

[NOTE: four post by hesham merged into one. — Mod.]
 

elmayerle

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
1,264
Reaction score
17
If memory serves me correctly, the Model 59 was a P-63 modified for the US navy as a swept-wing testbed.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
24,275
Reaction score
1,055
Thank you dear elmayerle,

Model-46 ------?.
Model-47 helicopter.
Model-48 helicopter.
Model-49 coaxial helicopter.
Model-50 convertiplane (no details).

any additions about missing Models are welcome.
 

Antonio

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2006
Messages
3,371
Reaction score
50
Hesham,

Model-13 it's not the P-39C model number. Model 13 was Bell's contender to R-40C competition.
 

Andreas Parsch

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
Mar 2, 2006
Messages
245
Reaction score
1
elmayerle said:
If memory serves me correctly, the Model 59 was a P-63 modified for the US navy as a swept-wing testbed.
Wasn't that the model 39? The USN called it "L-39", and they usually used the manufacturer's model number, when no proper military designation was assigned.
 

elmayerle

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
1,264
Reaction score
17
Oops, my error. I was working strictly from memory without any references handy.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
24,275
Reaction score
1,055
Thank you my dears,

for Model-13 it was from USA FIGHTERS book, and dear Andreas Parsch
please complete the missing project number.

Model-51 -------?.
Model-52 X-2.
Model-53 -------?.
Model-54 helicopter.
Model-55 -------?.
Model-56 -------?.
Model-57 -------?.
Model-58 X-1D.
Model-59 -------?.
Model-60 X-5.
 

Andreas Parsch

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
Mar 2, 2006
Messages
245
Reaction score
1
My only authoritative source for Bell model numbers is

A.J. Pelletier: "Bell Aircraft since 1935", Putnam, 1992

It doesn't include a complete listing, though, and has actually less numbers as have been already mentioned in this thread. Anyway, from that source are the following additions and one correction (or error by Pelletier ::) ) to hesham's data:

15B - P-39F and P-39J
26 - P-39G (not built)
26A - P-39K
26B - P-39L
26C - P-39N-5 and N-6
26D - P-39M
26E - P-39Q
26F - P-39N-0 to N-3, and N-6
33 - Pelletier has this both as P-39E and P-63 (all versions except -63E)
54 - XH-15
58 - also X-1A/B
59 - X-9 Shrike (testbed for GAM-63 Rascal missile) with Aerojet/Solar engines
59A - X-9 with Bell engines
61 - XHSL-1 helicopter
65 - "ATV" (VTOL testbed for X-14)
67 - X-16
68 - X-14

As for the Model 13, Pelletier lists it as P-39C, too.
 

Antonio

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2006
Messages
3,371
Reaction score
50
As for the Model 13, Pelletier lists it as P-39C, too.
I have Pelletier's book too but I believe this is a more authoritative text:

Request for data R40-C
Gerald H. Balzer
Journal American Aviation Historical Society published in winter 1995

please take a look at the R40-C contender list here (reply #2)
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,183.0.html
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
24,275
Reaction score
1,055
Thanks to you my dears,

but what about the other projects .
 

lark

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Messages
1,783
Reaction score
7
-model 13 -

13 single engine interceptor proposal to R-40C competition.P-39 type ,V-1430-1 engine
13 single engine interceptor proposal to R-40C competition.P-39 type ,V-1430-3 engine
13A single engine interceptor proposal to R-40C competition.P-39 type ,V-1710-E8 engine
13B single engine interceptor proposal to R-40C competition.P-39 type ,V-1710-E9 engine

-model 28 -

28 single engine interceptor for the Army P-76 - cancelled.replaced by suppl.No1 (P-39M)
28A single engine interceptot for the Army P-76 - cancelled.replaced by suppl.No1 (P-39M)

from Bell Aircraft Corporation Model numbers. Appendix A , page 385 (Cobra-see above)
 

devi

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
118
Reaction score
1
Greetings to all.
I for a long time was not at a forum...

Model 29---XP-59B (project)
Model 43---P-63F
Model 45---XP-63H (project, proposed testbed aircraft powered by an Allison V- 1710-127 (E-27) turbocompound engine)
Model 53---P-63E Kingcobra mod
 

nugo

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
Feb 2, 2006
Messages
337
Reaction score
2
Hi all!

Model 66---Originally known as XB-63, Rascal was
later redesignated GAM-63A (guided air missile);
it is the Bell Model 66.
 

lark

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Messages
1,783
Reaction score
7
model 34 - single engine fighter -should become P-63B Project engineer D.Fabricy.
study contract only.Never built.

(L-39 single engine 2-place swept wing P-63A - no model number)

Source : Cobra - Birch Matthews.Schiffer.
 

lark

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Messages
1,783
Reaction score
7
L-39 - an explanation.

The U.S.Navy manufacturers identification code for Bell was he letter 'L'.
(see Airabonita XFL-1)
The Navy adopted the Bell 'design number' for the P-63 which was D-39.
Since only the number was used by the Navy they came to L-39 for the swept winged
experimetal P-63.

source : Bell aircraft corporation page 376.
 

Antonio

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2006
Messages
3,371
Reaction score
50
That's great!! Thanks Scott.
 

Antonio

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2006
Messages
3,371
Reaction score
50
Bell Model 2 is a single engine attack project that became A-11A?

According to Minidocavia Nº2, the USAAC's A-11 designation corresponds to Consolidated A-11 (a derivative of the Lockheed Y1A-9 which itself was an attack derivative of the Lockheed Y1P-24 escort fighter project. The Y1P-24 was also developed at Consolidated. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consolidated_P-30 )

The Consolidated XA-11A was an A-11 used as a V-1710 powerplant testbed.

What is that Model 2 then?
 

Antonio

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2006
Messages
3,371
Reaction score
50
BTW, R. Woods was chief designer at Consolidated. What was the link between Bell and Consolidated?
 

lark

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Messages
1,783
Reaction score
7
The Bell model 2 was a modification of the Consolidated A-11 re-engined
with a Allison liquid-cooled engine.
This new aircraft was designed XA-11A but it never went into production.
 

lark

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Messages
1,783
Reaction score
7
For Pome..

The modification of the XA-11 with the Allison liquid cooled engine
was subcontracted by Consolidated to Bell after the first firm left
Buffalo for San Diego. For Bell ,working in the old Consolidated buildings, it was
a new aircraft and so it received the Bell model number 2.

Woods was project engineer for the XA-11 and stayed with Larry Bell , who was on the payroll
at Consolidated. Bell decided not to move to San Diego with this firm but instead to
form his own company at Buffalo.

Sources : Reuben Fleet and te Story of Consolidated Aircraft by William Wagner
Aero Publishers Inc. California.1976
General Dynamics Aircraft and their Predecessors by John Wegg
Putnam.London.1990
 

Antonio

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2006
Messages
3,371
Reaction score
50
Thanks a lot Lark :)
 

Stargazer2006

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,242
Reaction score
100
I am ever-grateful to Orionblamblam for solving the puzzle of a few Bell designations that stubbornly resisted my investigations!
A few remarks:
- Bell worked on an apparently undesignated small coaxial-rotor helicopter. Always figured it might be the missing Model 31, but now I wonder...
- What could have been the designation for the RP-63G "Pinball"?
- The Model 40 (XP-83) is sometimes refered to as the "Airarattler", while the Model 52 (X-2) is sometimes refered to as the "Starbuster" and the Model 60 (X-5) as the "Interceptor".
- The Model 48 (YH-12) was initially designated XR-12, and the Model 54 (YH-15) was YR-15.
- Some contemporary articles describe a project called the Bell "Feederliner", a commercial helicopter project developed from Model 48.
- The Model 65 was the ATV VTOL research test-bed for the X-14 with a J44 engine
- Strangely enough, though the list is supposed to end at Model 69, I have found two later numbers, which could very well fit in there : the OH-13 versions of the Sioux/Ranger as modified by Texas Helicopter bore the unusual designations M74/M74A/M74L ("Wasp") M79S ("Wasp II") M79T ("Jet Wasp II"). The manufacturing numbers of the latter began with 79-...

I will post my own D-projects list later...
 

Tailspin Turtle

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2007
Messages
691
Reaction score
13
Website
www.tommythomason.com
By way of background, Bell Helicopter kept two number lists. One was for design numbers and the other was for model numbers. Engineering assigned design numbers and management, model numbers. It was pretty easy to get a design number. It was much harder to get a model number. These were only allocated to projects that had a real prospect of getting development funds. It appears that the same practice was used at Buffalo.

An earlier post by Lark mentions a design number. It's possible that the swept-wing proposal was submitted with a design number instead of a model number, although 39 seems pretty low. Another possibility is that the model number 39 was used for the swept-wing proposal and for some reason it didn't stick officially within Bell (according to the Bell log published by Orion, this was a TP-39 two place trainer).

In any event, the Bell report number on the Flight Investigation of a Bell P-63 Airplane with 35° Swept-back Wings is 33-943-032. The first number on Bell reports is the model number. 33 was assigned to a series of P-63 models, starting with the P-63A-1 and ending with the P-63C-5.
 

Stargazer2006

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,242
Reaction score
100
While what you're saying is true, I wouldn't say that D-39 was "too low" a number. The "D- for design" list was started during the war, and therefore doesn't go back as far as the early Bell aircraft.
D-35 was a delta-wing single seat jet fighter project and D-37 was a swept-wing X-1. My list has D-39 as a "P-63 interceptor", but I could not confirm the source. At any rate, the number doesn't seem odd to me.
 

Steve Pace

Aviation History Writer
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
2,269
Reaction score
11
That's the first time I've seen "WS-318A" for the "XF-109." Andreas Parsch's site says "no information" for 318.
 

Stargazer2006

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,242
Reaction score
100
Yeah, you're right! It's not in my WS- list either! Wonder where I got that one from... though I'm positive I didn't make it up, so there must be an explanation somewhere...
 

Steve Pace

Aviation History Writer
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
2,269
Reaction score
11
We need to find out. It would fill a big blank.
 

Stargazer2006

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,242
Reaction score
100
Until we find out, I've added a question mark next to it. Believe it or not, my list and your question already appear in Google when you type "WS-318A"!!!
 
Top