Avro "X-Wing" TS-140 U.S. Navy proposal

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Justo Miranda

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From "Cold War Tech War"
by Randall Whitcomb
Good Stuff!
 

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Nice find! That's an Arrow PS-2 on the cover, is it not? Is the whole book packed with concept art?
 
Of course
Please see attached index
 

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Looks quite similar to the VJ-101A/He 231 concept from 1958, but it
doesn't seem to use tiltable engines, but re-directed thrust via cascades,
does it ?
 
An International V/STOL Historical Society publication covering Canadian projects is in the works (authored by three SPF members) and to be published in early summer. I've just completed the section on this Avro Canada "X-Wing fighter" (including performance and other data).

Randy Whitcomb got the 3-view Justo published from Avro Canada's October 1956 brochure, "Proposal for VTOL Visual Fighter in Accordance with U.S. Navy Specification TS-140". And Jens is right, the 'X-Wing' used Orenda-devised flapper-valve cascades rather than tilting engine pods.

A few details:

Maximum speed: Mach=1.75, climb/cruise Mach=0.9
Rate of Climb 55,600 ft/min (at sea level at Mach=0.9)
Ceiling (combat) 62,000 ft
Powerplants: 4 x Orenda-licenced Orpheus BOr.11 (5,760 lb st)

More when the vstol.org piece is published.
 
Wow, I missed this thread when it was first posted. Has the vstol.org piece been published?
 
Amazing project! I LOVE this! Thanks guys for sharing, I hadn't seen this thread before. Could this program result from the same specification as Bell's proposed D-188A?
 
Last edited:
Stargazer2006 said:
Amazing project! I LOVE this! Thanks guys for sharing, I hadn't seen this thread before. Could this program result from the same specification as Bell's proposed D-188A (the would-be XF3R-1)?
Click to expand...

As Apophenia wrote:

Randy Whitcomb got the 3-view Justo published from Avro Canada's October 1956 brochure, "Proposal for VTOL Visual Fighter in Accordance with U.S. Navy Specification TS-140".
Click to expand...

We've asked Tony Buttler for more contenders of the TS-140 specification, but the only one he has found was the Lockheed CL-349. For him the Avro VTOL Visual Fighter was also unknown as competitor. TS-140 spec was in 1955/56, Bell D-188A in 1957.

Can anybody help with an illustration of the CL-349 design?

(Sorry, Nugo. I've noticed your question here http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,9766.msg89908.html#msg89908 too late.)
 
Cool subject. I recently bought Cold War Tech War and this machine is quite intruiging indeed.


Apophenia, any news on this article yet? I'm quite interested in it.


Meanwhile, would anyone have pictures of the "Orenda-devised flapper-valve cascades" or a similar system?
 
Sadly, the author has passed on. Any Canadian friends on the forum can provide more info or background.
 
I read the book. His background was aviation artist. In many ways, the book resembles the fringe science works of authors such as Graham Hancock, etc. His thesis is that US business interests deliberately set out to ruin the Canadian aerospace industry to eliminate a competitor, and further US economic colonialism of Canada.
He tended to view every project mentioned living up to their brochures, and assumes that all projects will smoothly move along on time and within the original budget. He thinks that such blue sky projects such as the Avro X-wing, and the Arrow Mk 3 and 4 were easily doable. A stroll through the graveyard of VTOL dead ends, and the difficulty the US has creating true hypersonic aircraft, or even a casual glance at the promise versus the reality of bringing any post-war project to fruition shows his optimism approaches fantasy.
 
royabulgaf said:
I read the book. His background was aviation artist. In many ways, the book resembles the fringe science works of authors such as Graham Hancock, etc. His thesis is that US business interests deliberately set out to ruin the Canadian aerospace industry to eliminate a competitor, and further US economic colonialism of Canada.
He tended to view every project mentioned living up to their brochures, and assumes that all projects will smoothly move along on time and within the original budget. He thinks that such blue sky projects such as the Avro X-wing, and the Arrow Mk 3 and 4 were easily doable. A stroll through the graveyard of VTOL dead ends, and the difficulty the US has creating true hypersonic aircraft, or even a casual glance at the promise versus the reality of bringing any post-war project to fruition shows his optimism approaches fantasy.
Click to expand...

Not to mention the simple fact that the U.S. actually didn't want Arrow canceled and after it was, both GE and the Brits tried to buy the Arrows that were built, but the Canadian Government wouldn't let them because of how it would have made them look.
 
Of course
Please see attached index
Click to expand...

OT:

what is the HSA.1011 NO BOOM SST aircraft mentioned in the last pic "Escanear0003.jpg". I was not able to find informations/pics etc...
 
Tailspin Turtle said:
Deep Voice: The National Archives

I don't know if Jared Zichek or Tony Buttler are going to do something with this and I don't want to step on their parade.
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As with Justo's 3-view, this image was originally from Avro Canada's Oct 1956 brochure, "Proposal for VTOL Visual Fighter in Accordance with U.S. Navy Specification TS-140". Attaching is an inboard profile from the same brochure.

This project was covered in some detail for our International V/STOL Historical Society publication Canadian V/STOL Concepts of the 20th Century. Mike Hirschberg presented this paper at an AHS meeting at Pax River in Aug 2009 but I don't know what became of the publication after that. Mike?
 

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Just put up a new article at RetroMechanix.com on this aircraft proposal:

5814228398_2d04de2e79_o.jpg


It reproduces the entire proposal brochure in a 73 image slideshow, which features numerous drawings (including some in color), artist's impressions, photos, and technical descriptions. A remarkable design from a period in which the Canadian aerospace industry was among the most innovative in the world!

-Jared
 
Jared, you've made my day!!!

As a VTOL freak and a rare projects addict, I had Avro's TS-140 proposal in my all-time top list of favorites. And now you come up with the whole shebang! Where on earth do you find such jewels? Do you actually own all of the stuff you put up on your website, or simply scan them during visits to company archives?
 
Most of what I have is scanned from various archives; I have very few original primary documents in my possession. I hope the material I've posted on the Avro VTOL fighter eventually inspires a model kit, as I think it would make an impressive addition to any collection!
 
jzichek said:
Most of what I have is scanned from various archives; I have very few original primary documents in my possession. I hope the material I've posted on the Avro VTOL fighter eventually inspires a model kit, as I think it would make an impressive addition to any collection!
Click to expand...

My feelings exactly, and as a matter of fact, I was telling myself this on browsing through the 73 pages of that awesome brochure... A Fantastic Plastic or Sharkit model of the TS-140 proposal would be a treat... Imagine it on a shelf next to the Bell D-188A, the Ryan X-13 and several other VTOL projects of that era... It would be just AWESOME!
 
jzichek said:
Just put up a new article at RetroMechanix.com on this aircraft proposal:
Click to expand...


Ummm...


Anybody else getting this?
Three possibilities:
1: The site is infected
2: Somebody turned in some sort of complaint or something against the site
3: My anti-virus software is excessively paranoid


Since this is a new upgraded version of the anti-virus software, I'd not be surprised at #3... but this is actually the first webpage I've gone to where this warning has popped up.
 

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Are you trying to connect from the usual machine/place? If so, I don't understand. But if you're not, sometimes different server managers use different parameters to filter sites automatically. For instance, in my former office I could browse deviantART but not use Facebook. In my new office it's the other way around. In yet another office a few years ago, no sites were restricted but chat applications such as MSN Messenger were out.
 
I think some anti-virus software falsely recognize the AdBrite advertisements as being malware; I'll be dropping that advertising network in the near future, which should hopefully take care of the problem.
 
For a good look at what was going on at Avro, I suggest Requiem For A Giant by Palmiro Campagna.




Ed
 
As I said over at www.military-meshes.com, this too made my day and it really puts the Avro VTOL proposal on the map. Previously this thread was the only thing on the entire internet giving any amount of information on this ultra-cool design. Now we have the whole brochure. For free. You are an absolute star! B)
I started a 3D model back in October, using the tiny 3view from Cold War, Tech War, but now I can really make this work... ;)
 
Ran across a FB Reel about the Avro TS140 proposal, so I ran a search on the subject.

Reel isn't worth sharing, it spends half the time whining about how the Navy bailed on the project. It mentioned a test rig using Orpheus 5s, and the production version was supposed to use Orpheus 11s.

jzichek said:
Just put up a new article at RetroMechanix.com on this aircraft proposal:

5814228398_2d04de2e79_o.jpg


It reproduces the entire proposal brochure in a 73 image slideshow, which features numerous drawings (including some in color), artist's impressions, photos, and technical descriptions. A remarkable design from a period in which the Canadian aerospace industry was among the most innovative in the world!

-Jared
Click to expand...
I get a 404 error for the RetroMechanix link.
 
So reading through the document, it claims armament was provisioned to be either 2" rocket launcher clips, Aero x 15A, Aero x 16A, or 4x folding fin "Sidewinder" guided missiles.

Questions:
- What does Aero x 15A and 16A refer to? Google is not being helpful on this one
- Were there ever any folding fin proposals for Sidewinder or any other similar sized missiles?
 
scautomoton said:
So reading through the document, it claims armament was provisioned to be either 2" rocket launcher clips, Aero x 15A, Aero x 16A, or 4x folding fin "Sidewinder" guided missiles.

Questions:
- What does Aero x 15A and 16A refer to? Google is not being helpful on this one
- Were there ever any folding fin proposals for Sidewinder or any other similar sized missiles?
Click to expand...

A folding-fin Sidewinder isn't much of a stretch since the rocket body was originally based on the Zuni 5-inch FFAR.

Just a guess but those "Aero x 15A, Aero x 16A" probably refer to launchers or launcher components developed at the Naval Ordnance Test Station ... akin to the AERO 7A (Ejector Foot Pads) and AERO 7D (launcher) for the 2.75" Mighty Mouse.
 

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