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Avions Marcel Dassault Méditerranée

hesham

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Who can ID this Dassault executive jet aircraft ?.
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1958/1958%20-%200185.html
 

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Petrus

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The picture's caption says everything: it is the Dassault Mediteranee.

Best regards,
Piotr
 

Jemiba

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Not quite sure, but I think, there was a high wing design for the
Mediteranée, too ? I would like to know, if somone knows, what
the landing gear would have looked like ? I once had chosen main
gear legs attached to the wing, with the wheels retracting into the
fuselage underside, but this was pure speculation and would result
in quite long wheel legs.
 

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Petrus

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The Mediteranee was to have the Farandole engines. Find attached a cut-out from the Flight magazine in which the engine is described.

Best regards,
Piotr
 

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SlickDriver

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When the Super-Viper engine was not available they went to the General Electric CF 700, range 2,500 km top speed 900 km/h.

On 26 Jan 59 the Mediterranee II was proposed with twin Orpheus 6 engines, 2,200 km, 960 km/h, 12 passengers or 20 as a troop transport. No drawing available.

Source: Dassaut 50 years of Aeronatique Adventures by Claude Carlier & Luc Berger.
 

Apophenia

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http://www.air-defense.net/index.php?index=20&num_art=127

This site seems to say that the illustrated design was designated Méditerranée III (see below). Could a French reader confirm this?

The "concurrents d'outre atlantique" bit suggests that the twin-engined Jetstar prototype was an influence on the final layout. Since the Orpheus suited Lockheed for that Jetstar, I'm surprised that Dassault didn't consider that Bristol engine earlier

According to Dassault Aviation, the wing-mounted engines weren't shifted to the rear fuselage until the 1959 Mystère 100. That study must have been close on the heels of Loran's Méditerranée II.
______________________________________

From Air-Defence.Net

C'est le bureau d'études "avion civil" de Dassault, situé à Bordeaux Mérignac, qui va s'occuper de l'étude de l'appareil. Ainsi sous la férule de Paul Delplante, Paul Chassagne et René Lemaire, le programme d'avion d'affaires à réaction prend forme. Ce projet avait déjà été étudié en 1954 sous le nom de "Méditerranée", mais faute de turboréacteurs adaptés, il avait été mis de coté. S'en suit une première ébauche présentée sous la dénomination de méditerranée III.

Mais lors d'un appel téléphonique resté historique, avec Paul Chassagne, Marcel Dassault va redéfinir de bout en bout l?allure générale du futur Appareil, augmentant taille et gabarit par rapport à ses concurrents d'outre atlantique. Les jours suivants, Paul Chassagne présente alors le dessin de ce qui va devenir le Mystère 20, puis au mois de Décembre de la même année, Marcel Dassault donne son accord pour la fabrication du premier prototype.
 

Retrofit

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Apophenia said:
http://www.air-defense.net/index.php?index=20&num_art=127

This site seems to say that the illustrated design was designated Méditerranée III (see below). Could a French reader confirm this?

The "concurrents d'outre atlantique" bit suggests that the twin-engined Jetstar prototype was an influence on the final layout. Since the Orpheus suited Lockheed for that Jetstar, I'm surprised that Dassault didn't consider that Bristol engine earlier

According to Dassault Aviation, the wing-mounted engines weren't shifted to the rear fuselage until the 1959 Mystère 100. That study must have been close on the heels of Loran's Méditerranée II.
______________________________________

From Air-Defence.Net

C'est le bureau d'études "avion civil" de Dassault, situé à Bordeaux Mérignac, qui va s'occuper de l'étude de l'appareil. Ainsi sous la férule de Paul Delplante, Paul Chassagne et René Lemaire, le programme d'avion d'affaires à réaction prend forme. Ce projet avait déjà été étudié en 1954 sous le nom de "Méditerranée", mais faute de turboréacteurs adaptés, il avait été mis de coté. S'en suit une première ébauche présentée sous la dénomination de méditerranée III.

Mais lors d'un appel téléphonique resté historique, avec Paul Chassagne, Marcel Dassault va redéfinir de bout en bout l?allure générale du futur Appareil, augmentant taille et gabarit par rapport à ses concurrents d'outre atlantique. Les jours suivants, Paul Chassagne présente alors le dessin de ce qui va devenir le Mystère 20, puis au mois de Décembre de la même année, Marcel Dassault donne son accord pour la fabrication du premier prototype.

Rush translation:
It was the Dassault’s design office, situated at Bordeaux Merignac, devoted to civil aircraft projects under the leadership of Paul Delplante, Paul Chassagne and Rene Lemaire, which was in charge of the business jet aircraft program. A first project was studied as soon as 1954 under the name “Méditérranée”, but by lack of suitable jet-engine, was put aside. Followed by a first study presented under the name “Méditérranée III”.
Then came the historical phone-call between Dassault and Chassagne. Dassault completely modified the shape of the future bizjet, increase its size and “weight” compared to its American competitors. The following days, Chassagne presented the drawings of what will become the “Mystère 20”, then in December the same year, Dassault gave his agreement for the production of a first prototype.


The aircraft illustrated is a "Mystère 20"
 

toura

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hi all
Looking an old drawing from "Aviation Magazine"
-The family of civil Dassault aircrafts- I could see :
During 1954-1955 studies of two "Mediterranée" projects
one with 2 engines under the wings
one with 2 engines at the end of the fuselage
the third " mediterranée" of around 1960 was changed
-After the famous Dassault phone call- and became the
bigger "Mystere 20"
but, my dear Jemiba, I don't see a shoulder wings one.
Bye
 

toura

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hi all
Look at "http.//caea.free.fr/fr/coll/mystere20.php"
You have translation in english on the right
read "Historique"
 

hesham

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A more info about it in Airwarfareforum site,from my dear Slickdriver;
http://www.airwarfareforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=9683
 

Caravellarella

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Dear Boys and Girls, here is an article in French announcing the development of the Avions Marcel Dassault Méditerranée jet; it remained a "project", but did of course lead to the Mystère 20/Falcon 20. Does anybody know if the Méditerranée was allocated a Dassault model number?

The article comes from the 12th April 1958 issue of Les Ailes......

Moderators, shouldn't this topic be renamed "Avions Marcel Dassault Méditerranée executive/liaison jet project"?

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

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toura

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Hi Caravellarella
I 've never see number for this plane in Dassault sequence....
but, from a graphic showing the civil Dassault planes I see
two projects for the "Mediterranée"
 

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Jemiba

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Topic renamed, as correctly proposed by Terry ;)

From what I can see in that cut-away, the main gear really is attached to the
wing, isn't it ?
 

hesham

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From Le Fana 448.
 

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Archibald

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There were a bunch of (forgotten) Dassault small transports. They were kind of sons of the MD-315 Flamant and father of the Mystère 20. Communauté, Méditerranée, Spirale, Spirale III...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Communaut%C3%A9
 

Caravellarella

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Archibald said:
There were a bunch of (forgotten) Dassault small transports. They were kind of sons of the MD-315 Flamant and father of the Mystère 20. Communauté, Méditerranée, Spirale, Spirale III...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Communaut%C3%A9

Yes Archibald, there were low-wing Flamant derivative prototypes including one which was more of a small airliner than a liaison type......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

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dan_inbox

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Nice shot of the Dassault MD-316T Flamant prototype.
 

hesham

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Thank you my dears Archibald and Caravellarella.
 

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