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ATK revives OV-1D Mohawk

Triton

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Introducing the ATK/Mohawk Technologies/Broadbay OV-1D ASP (Aerial Surveillance Platform).

ATK showed off a concept to revive the Grumman OV-1D as a modern counter insurgency aircraft, featuring the 30mm gun from the AH-64 Apache, glass cockpit and integrated targeting system. The model appeared on ATK's booth at the AUSA 2010 convention in Washington DC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l40HvQ13aA4

Source:
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/
 

AeroFranz

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As much as I like the OV-1, I don't know how much this makes sense. Next they're going to open a Piper Enforcer line.
 

Stargazer2006

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AeroFranz said:
As much as I like the OV-1, I don't know how much this makes sense. Next they're going to open a Piper Enforcer line.

COIN OV-1s, COIN OV-10s, and a whole new batch of Piper Enforcers... YEAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!
Now we're talking about real kick-ass, no-nonsense aircraft! Maybe not quite state-of-the-art technology, but sturdy and proven genes... I'd be all for it (if I was an American citizen of course!).
 

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Yes, but as the bloke said in Flight, it's on the condition that you lot fly it into combat.

Mark
 

JFC Fuller

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In a world of Apache's, Reapers and Grey Eagles, where even F-15's and B-1B's can use Sniper Pods and transmit video in real time directly to dismounted infantryman via ROVER and can deliver Hellfires with multiple different warheads what is the point in this?
 
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joncarrfarrelly

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Cheaper to maintain than helos?

Without an in place maintenance supply chain for an old, long out of production airframe? Highly doubtful.

More pointless grasping at straws, or more likely, groping after money.
 

Triton

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sealordlawrence said:
In a world of Apache's, Reapers and Grey Eagles, where even F-15's and B-1B's can use Sniper Pods and transmit video in real time directly to dismounted infantryman via ROVER and can deliver Hellfires with multiple different warheads what is the point in this?

From The DEW Line:

But the ultimate goal is to sell the aircraft on the foreign market. The US State Department last week approved ATK's license application to market the aircraft to approved foreign customers. The OV-1D team is targeting potential military and government buyers in the Middle East and South America.

Source:
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/

Iraqi Air Force? Afghan National Army Air Force?

My friends, you really should read the article before commenting.
 

JFC Fuller

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Triton said:
sealordlawrence said:
In a world of Apache's, Reapers and Grey Eagles, where even F-15's and B-1B's can use Sniper Pods and transmit video in real time directly to dismounted infantryman via ROVER and can deliver Hellfires with multiple different warheads what is the point in this?

From The DEW Line:

But the ultimate goal is to sell the aircraft on the foreign market. The US State Department last week approved ATK's license application to market the aircraft to approved foreign customers. The OV-1D team is targeting potential military and government buyers in the Middle East and South America.

Source:
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/

Iraqi Air Force? Afghan National Army Air Force?

My friends, you really should read the article before commenting.

I did read the article and I my point stands- even if you target the lower end of the market there are still a multitude of issues with this notion. Mostly the availability of relatively cheap helicopter designs such as the AH-6i and various Hind Modifications whilst a range of MALE UAV's can be procured relatively cheaply whilst things like ROVER are relative cheap and easy to integrate into anything with an optical sensor mounted. In South America this platform will be going up against the already established Super Tucano. This is a crowded market space with multiple available solutions and the likelyhood of success for ATK here is marginal at best.
 

yasotay

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sealordlawrence said:
Triton said:
sealordlawrence said:
In a world of Apache's, Reapers and Grey Eagles, where even F-15's and B-1B's can use Sniper Pods and transmit video in real time directly to dismounted infantryman via ROVER and can deliver Hellfires with multiple different warheads what is the point in this?

From The DEW Line:

But the ultimate goal is to sell the aircraft on the foreign market. The US State Department last week approved ATK's license application to market the aircraft to approved foreign customers. The OV-1D team is targeting potential military and government buyers in the Middle East and South America.

Source:
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/

Iraqi Air Force? Afghan National Army Air Force?

My friends, you really should read the article before commenting.

I did read the article and I my point stands- even if you target the lower end of the market there are still a multitude of issues with this notion. Mostly the availability of relatively cheap helicopter designs such as the AH-6i and various Hind Modifications whilst a range of MALE UAV's can be procured relatively cheaply whilst things like ROVER are relative cheap and easy to integrate into anything with an optical sensor mounted. In South America this platform will be going up against the already established Super Tucano. This is a crowded market space with multiple available solutions and the likelyhood of success for ATK here is marginal at best.

There is also the implications of "Total Ownership Cost" for the aircraft. If you add in all of the support facilities for the fixed wing aircraft and the need for at least semi-prepared runways, helicopters are not so expensive as they are designed to operated out of austere totally unimproved areas.
 

Avimimus

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yasotay said:
There is also the implications of "Total Ownership Cost" for the aircraft. If you add in all of the support facilities for the fixed wing aircraft and the need for at least semi-prepared runways, helicopters are not so expensive as they are designed to operated out of austere totally unimproved areas.

If you already have prepared fields in the theatre, it shouldn't make much of a difference (remember these older turboprop aircraft can operate from poorly maintained and much smaller civilian fields as well).

There is also a considerably greater fuel economy once airborne which increase loiter times in fixed winged aircraft. This is especially true of sub-sonic optimised designs (versus the F-15E for example).

Finally, you get the benefit of a much higher cruise speed - which allows being on location sooner as well as potentially loitering longer.

Without the complex transmissions such aircraft are cheaper to produce, require lower grade production materials and are easier to maintain in the field. For a given payload and range, a civil fixed wing platform is something like 25% of the price of an equivalent performance helicopter (of course this ratio tends to decrease once you factor in military avionics etc.)

I'm not saying that helicopters don't have a lot of virtues. I'm rather a fan of them.

It is just that there are reasons why aircraft with WWII and early-post war performance levels keep getting proposed.
 

JFC Fuller

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Avimimus said:
It is just that there are reasons why aircraft with WWII and early-post war performance levels keep getting proposed.

But rarely purchased?
 

Avimimus

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Exactly. I didn't finish the sentence because I'm not sure why and felt it would need explanation...

I can think of what happened in the Falklands conflict (vulnerability to blowpipe sams). There are also downsides compared to helicopters (eg. inability to easily maintain constant visual contact with a target unless circling it - something which is useful if you're trying to track infantry sized targets). But it would be really nice to have some better ideas...
 

Triton

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ATK/Mohawk Technologies/Broadbay OV-1D ASP (Aerial Surveillance Platform) on display at Patuxent Naval Test Center on June 09, 2010.

See the following URLs for photographs:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/driko/4788356772/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/driko/4788356308/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/driko/4788355964/in/photostream/

Photographer has disabled downloading of images.





 

Stargazer2006

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Ha ha! Yeah. I hate it when the guys post stuff but prevent you from saving or downloading. It's so easy to post a low-res version and save the hi-res for professional uses, or to add copyright information within the picture. Blocking downloads like that usually prompts me to bypass the warning even more...
 

famvburg

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I have my digi cam & iPhone close by so when I run into pics that I can't save, I just take pics of the pics & save them that way. Works good enough for me & usually show up as good as the originals. :)

Stargazer2006 said:
Ha ha! Yeah. I hate it when the guys post stuff but prevent you from saving or downloading. It's so easy to post a low-res version and save the hi-res for professional uses, or to add copyright information within the picture. Blocking downloads like that usually prompts me to bypass the warning even more...
 

Stargazer2006

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If saving tricks fail, a simple screen capture and subsequent crop do the trick and keep the same quality...
 

TomS

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Firefox has a nice feature (Tools: Page Info) that lets you individually look at and save any media item (including images) appearing on the page you're viewing.
 

Stargazer2006

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TomS said:
Firefox has a nice feature (Tools: Page Info) that lets you individually look at and save any media item (including images) appearing on the page you're viewing.

Thanks for the tip. Looks awesome!!
 

hesham

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Hi,


I think this aircraft was intended for photographic duty ?.


L + K magazine
 

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TomS

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Yes, the OV-1 was used for photographic reconnaissance (some versions also did IR or side-looking radar) -- the KA-60 mentioned in the caption was a panoramic nose-mounted camera system.
 
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