Artificial intelligence manipulate multiple mortar systems fire and reload shells at the same time.

[li zhuo peng]

Mortar is a lightweight artillery with portability and rapid deployment capabilities, it used to support infantry operations. They provide important direct firepower support on the battlefield, and perform precise strikes on enemy targets.

Mortars are the most popular weapon among infantry. They are easy to manufacture and operate, sturdy and durable, easy to carry。

Mortars have various designs with different calibers; There are 81mm medium mortars and 120mm heavy mortars.

picture: 120mm heavy mortars





For example,The L16 81MM mortar is a medium-sized mortar developed by the British Army in the mid-1950s

Basic data

Caliber 81 millimeters

Maximum range 5850 meters

Minimum range of 100 meters

Firing rate: 15 rounds/minute

Gun body length 1280 millimeters

High and low shooting boundary( angle) 45 ° to 85 °

Direction shooting boundary (angle): 5.5 ° left and right, shooting angle of 45 ° (without moving the tripod)

Types of ammunition : grenades, smoke bombs

operators: 3 people

picture: 81mm mortar



picture: mortar fire







I never service in army, but I search some information on internet ,and know how the mortars works and aim at targets. Basically, motors aim at targets adjust Direction shooting boundary(angle) (gun barrel turn right 5.5 angle or turn left 5.5 angle),

Adjust high and low shooting boundary (barrel turn high or low from 45 angle to 85 angle), then soldiers load shell and fire.

Operate a 81mm mortar need two soldiers at least,one man observe,calculate the coordinates of enemy. Another loaded shell and fire.

As a result, presume six 81mm calibre mortars fires and reload shells at the time, you need 12 soldiers. If three man operate a 81mm mortar, you need 18 soldiers.


picture : the device of mortar adjust for shells hit the target.

One kind of artificial intelligence system ,I call the AI Number X, THIS AI machine can operate Six 81mm mortars aim, fire at targets and control six robotic arms reload shells at the same time.

This Number X artificial intelligence system install in a armored vehicle, it control multiple stepper motors through multiple cables. These stepper motors control 81mm mortar direction shooting boundary(gun barrel turn right 180 angle or turn left 180 angle), and control high and low shooting boundary(barrel turn high or low from 45 angle to 85 angle).


picture : artificial intelligence system Number X










A stepper motor is an actuator that converts electrical pulses into angular displacement. When the stepper driver receives a pulse signal, it drives the stepper motor to rotate a fixed angle (called "step angle") in the set direction, and its rotation runs step by step at a fixed angle. The angular displacement can be controlled by controlling the number of pulses to achieve accurate positioning; At the same time, the speed and acceleration of the motor rotation can be controlled by controlling the pulse frequency, achieving the goal of speed regulation.


Picture: The stepper motors control the 81mm mortar gun barrel direction shooting boundary ----turn right angle 90- 180 or turn left angle 90-180; control high and low shooting boundary----barrel turn high angle or low angle. 45-85 angle.




Picture : AI Number X manipulate the 81MM mortar fire and robotic arm reload shells through cables ,stepper motors.





picture: stepper motor











picture : AI Number X very strong, run six 81mm mortars and six robotic arms at the meantimes.



picture : Armored vehicle mounted AI Number X . The AI launch hornet M scout drone discover the enemy position, and send the coordinate to artificial intelligence Number X through radio signals.


AI command six mortars fire and attack target at the same times.




Hornet M scout drone equip with satellite telephone and compass.






The driver of armoured vehicle report to headquarter use satellite telephone . or phone call his family.





In 1997, the computer "Deep Blue" was 11.38 billion floating-point operations per second, far exceeding the speed of human brain . However, it could only beat the best human chess player.

Deep Blue is a super chess computer produced by IBM in the United States. It weighs 1270 kilograms and has 32 brains (microprocessors) that can calculate 200 million steps per second.


Picture : super computer and artificial intelligence " DEEP BLUE"

 

[Dilandu]

Erm... Look at this picture:




This is "Wiesel-2" self-propelled 120-mm mortar. The reload is done by merely depressing mortar barrel to the hatch in machine roof and inserting shell into the barrel. On "Wiesel" it's done manually, but it could be easily automated; just add some kind of magazine to move shells to the barrel.

Do not overcomplicate. There is no need for complex articulated arms to perform something as simple as putting shell into the barrel. A very simple mechanical device could do the trick.

 

[DWG]

It doesn't take AI to run an autoloader, and breechloading mortars are common enough. See AMOS, for instance, which has a 10 round time on target capability from two barrels.

 

[li zhuo peng]

It doesn't take AI to run an autoloader, and breechloading mortars are common enough. See AMOS, for instance, which has a 10 round time on target capability from two barrels.

I search some information of AMOS on internet.

This twin barrel gun tank is actually an modular armored vehicle equipped with the Advanced Mortar System (AMOS) jointly developed by Sweden and Finland.

Sure,the AMOS MORTAR SYSTEM is a weapon with advanced design concepts, practical performance, and sci-fi appearance.
I just provide another design concept for mortar systems。

 

[li zhuo peng]

It doesn't take AI to run an autoloader, and breechloading mortars are common enough. See AMOS, for instance, which has a 10 round time on target capability from two barrels.

You mention breech loading mortar system, I remember 2B9 Type Cornflower Rapid Fire Mortar of soviet union .
Cornflower Mortar use of magazine feeding. One magazine can load 4 shells and complete 4 firing in 2 to 3 seconds.

in Afghanistan, cornflowers revealed some shortcomings.
Firstly, in continuous firing mode, there is significant vibration, resulting in lower shooting accuracy and relying solely on large-scale shooting to achieve firepower coverage. Secondly, there is a complex hydraulic system that has increased significantly in weight, several times heavier than traditional 82mm mortars.
It is difficult to move manually and only be towed by cars. On battlefield, soldiers move cornflower mortar onto the MT-LB tracked armored vehicle as a self-propelled artillery.
picture : 2b9 cornflower mortar, breech loading .






China purchased "cornflowers" mortar ,but find that problems with cornflowers were greater than imagined. The firing rate very high, shooting out a 4-round magazine within 2 seconds, but the accuracy is poor, wasting shells. The so-called continuous shooting has no practical value, as it can cause a sharp increase in barrel temperature. Therefore, the actual maximum safe firing rate of cornflower mortar is controlled within 40 rounds per minute, continuous firing rate is controlled within 300 rounds within half an hour. The original 2B9 model had a water-cooled jacket, but the later 2B9M model changed to air-cooled. Due to lower cooling effect than water-cooled, the sustained firing rate was reduced to 200 rounds per half hour, so the actual firing rate did not have a significant advantage compared to traditional mortars.

The maximum firing rate of mortar system is not the focus of article,
M29 81mm mortar of USA. Maximum firing rate of 30 rounds per minute.

The article point out that multiple mortar systems, under the command of artificial intelligence and precise calculation of enemy coordinates, can accurately bomb enemy forces from different directions.

Artificial intelligence can command multiple mortars to perform multiple combat tasks simultaneously, only need one driver , without requiring too many soldiers to perform fire support tasks.

picture : artificial intelligence command multiple mortars systems bomb different target in different position simultaneously



Precision strike, executing multiple tasks simultaneously, I think AI weapon is the future.

 

[DWG]

You don't need AI for any of this.

Planning fire missions - computers have been doing this since at least the 90s, possibly the 80s.

Autoloaders - robots capable of this level of precision have been around since the 90s, but you don't need robots for an autoloader, the technology goes back to the 1880s and reached full technical maturity in the late WWII period. A breach-loading mortar is preferable for autoloading, which also keeps the weigh of the autoloader lower in the vehicle.

You are also underestimating the size of mortars. A vehicle-mounted 120mm takes up effectively all the space in the rear of an APC by the time you allow for its turntable and its ammunition. There's no way you're fitting six of them, plus ammunition*, in the space of a single APC's hull. The swept volume for the barrel on the turntable is going to be a roughly 2m diameter, 3 metre high cylinder. If you try and put them on the roof of the vehicle then you run into the issue that you're putting a half-tonne+ weapon, and it's non-recuperated recoil high in the vehicle. That's why there's an increasing move to turreted mortars, it allows you to fit an auto-loading, recuperated mortar in the vehicle, giving higher rates of fire, and the possibility of direct fire.

* 60 rounds per mortar is fairly typical, 20Kg per round = 1200Kg per mortar.

 

[Dilandu]

You mention breech loading mortar system, I remember 2B9 Type Cornflower Rapid Fire Mortar of soviet union .
Cornflower Mortar use of magazine feeding. One magazine can load 4 shells and complete 4 firing in 2 to 3 seconds.

Did you read my answer?

 

[li zhuo peng]

Did you read my answer?

Sorry, about "Wiesel-2" self-propelled mortar, I have no more information.

But from this picture you offer, the self propelled mortar need three man operate at least, two crews and one driver. So, Six "Wiesel-2" self-propelled mortars operate need 18 men.

Of course ,120mm mortar can not compare to 81mm mortar, so if a 81mm self-propelled mortar need two men operate, one crew and one driver(driver part time do the job reload shell) , six 81mm mortar need 12 soldiers.



AI system do the same job just need one driver, who take the advantage?

 

[li zhuo peng]

You don't need AI for any of this.

Planning fire missions - computers have been doing this since at least the 90s, possibly the 80s.

Autoloaders - robots capable of this level of precision have been around since the 90s, but you don't need robots for an autoloader, the technology goes back to the 1880s and reached full technical maturity in the late WWII period. A breach-loading mortar is preferable for autoloading, which also keeps the weigh of the autoloader lower in the vehicle.

You are also underestimating the size of mortars. A vehicle-mounted 120mm takes up effectively all the space in the rear of an APC by the time you allow for its turntable and its ammunition. There's no way you're fitting six of them, plus ammunition*, in the space of a single APC's hull. The swept volume for the barrel on the turntable is going to be a roughly 2m diameter, 3 metre high cylinder. If you try and put them on the roof of the vehicle then you run into the issue that you're putting a half-tonne+ weapon, and it's non-recuperated recoil high in the vehicle. That's why there's an increasing move to turreted mortars, it allows you to fit an auto-loading, recuperated mortar in the vehicle, giving higher rates of fire, and the possibility of direct fire.

* 60 rounds per mortar is fairly typical, 20Kg per round = 1200Kg per mortar.

Pay attention ,please. This chapter claim AI system can control six robotic arms and six 81mm mortars,not Six 120mm mortars. We know 120mm mortar is several times than 81mm mortar in weigh and volume, and its shell is several time than 81mm mortar shell in weigh, for example, L16 81mm mortar 30KG weigh, one 120mm mortar 327KG (m120 mortar of USA)

I have not studied the operating principle of an auto loader,so I don’t comment about it too much, but a robotic arm load shells for one 81mm mortar, This method is simple and practical, it’s difficult for Mechanical failure occurs. maybe a robotic arm can load shells for two 81mm mortar,

Many tanks in Western countries do not use automatic loading machines, not for technical reasons, but mainly based on tactical considerations. In harsh battlefields, if auto loader fail, tanks can be passively attacked. But if one robotic arm mechanical failure, the others robotic arms still works.

Let us calculation: weight of some components is an estimate

One 81mm mortar weigh 30kg: six mortars * 30kg= 180kg.
A shell of 81mm mortar weigh 3.65kg 3.65*90 round= about 328 kg
A robotic arm weigh 120kg 6 arms * 120kg=720kg
one turntable weigh 90kg 6 turntable*90kg=540kg
One 81mm mortar install two stepper motor(one big motor,one small), 40kg. Total 6*40kg =240kg
Artificial intelligence Number X weigh 1270 kg

above all components add up : 180+328+720*540+240+1270=3278kg,
The whole AI system and Weapons system about 3.28tons,
One armor transport vehicle load capacity from 6.5 tons to 10.5 tons.

I don’t see any problem if the armor vehicle install AI system and multiple mortars system.


you compare the size of 81mm mortar and 120MM mortar from picture:

120MM mortar



81mm mortar

 

[Dilandu]

Sorry, about "Wiesel-2" self-propelled mortar, I have no more information.

You apparently didn't read my post. My point was, that it's much simpler to merely lower the mortar barrel to the reloading hatch and push the shell into barrel with a simple rammer - no need for any "articlulated arms".

 

[Dilandu]

I have not studied the operating principle of an auto loader,so I don’t comment about it too much, but a robotic arm load shells for one 81mm mortar, This method is simple and practical, it’s difficult for Mechanical failure occurs. maybe a robotic arm can load shells for two 81mm mortar,

Are you kidding me? The articulated robot arms are three orders of magnitude more complex than autoloader. And much more prone to failures.

 

[DWG]

I have not studied the operating principle of an auto loader,so I don’t comment about it too much

So you're proposing to replace a technology you haven't even looked at, which is known to work.

There's a move away from 81mm vehicle mounted mortars to 120mm vehicle mounted mortars. 81mm has limited firepower in comparison to 120mm, yet a vehicle big enough for an 81mm is generally big enough for a 120mm.

 

[li zhuo peng]

Are you kidding me? The articulated robot arms are three orders of magnitude more complex than autoloader. And much more prone to failures.

This is Auto loader install on T-14 battle tank of Russia, do you think it is complex in structure ? And What’s weigh of this auto loading machine? 3 tons or 4 tons?
I estimate one robotic arm weigh 120kg can load shell for one 81mm mortar, a shell of 81mm mortar weigh 3.65kg. OK, a shell of 120mm mortar weigh from 15.8kg to 18kg. Suppose one robotic arm weigh 550kg can load a 120mm shell into barrel. Six robotic arms weigh 3300kg about 3.3 tons.

But the point if the auto loader of T14 tank mechanical failure occur, or this auto loader be destroyed by enemy fire. This T14 tank perhaps paralytic, unable shoot back.
How much possibility one robotic arm mechanical failure occur,? perhaps 0.05% possibility .
But how much possibility two robotic arms have mechanical failure at the same time ? Zero possibility!
Even one or two robotic arms be wrecked by enemy fire, the other robotic arms still work! That is the different.

 

[li zhuo peng]

Are you kidding me? The articulated robot arms are three orders of magnitude more complex than autoloader. And much more prone to failures.

Video : the auto loader of T-64 battle tank

mechanical failure

【真实】T-64 自动装弹机，世界上的自动装弹机故障率是一毛一样_懂车帝

懂车帝提供。懂车帝提供信息最快最全的中国汽车网站，看车选车买车就上懂车帝。

www.dongchedi.com

 

[li zhuo peng]

It doesn't take AI to run an autoloader, and breechloading mortars are common enough. See AMOS, for instance, which has a 10 round time on target capability from two barrels.

I think the AMOS mortar system there is a fatal weakness,if the electric motor drive the rotating turret was hit by shell, even gun barrel of mortar it can fire, but rotating turret can not turn right or turn let horizontal, mortar system unable aim at target!
The AMOS (Advanced Mortar System) turret weighs 4.4 tons and can rotate 360 degrees. The firing angle ranges from -3 degrees to 85 degrees.





But if multiple mortars system control by AI, even AI systems ,robotic arms and stepper motors were all destroyed by enemy fire,

Because these multiple mortars have no big different with traditional structure mortar, so driver and other soldiers still operate these mortars by hand, no matter its caliber are 81mm or 120mm.


pitcure : The AI system and robotic arms were hit and wreck





But the driver and other soldiers still operate mortar system by hands

 

[li zhuo peng]

Even in the future, the laser cannon, plasma cannon on the giant space ship aim at target and fire are controled by AI system.





These pictures come from Sci－fi Movie Battlestar Galactica

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Don't understand this topic.

 

[Dilandu]

Even one or two robotic arms be wrecked by enemy fire, the other robotic arms still work! That is the different.

The thing you are talking about is called "redundancy", and while it's generally good to have, it could be much easier achieved by just having several mortar carriers each with single mortar and simple reloader. Then in case of one being disabled (due to enemy fire or malfunction), the others would continue to operate.

Your six-mortar platform with complex manipulators could be completely destroyed by just one good (good for the other guy, of course) hit. Six single-mortar platforms with simple reloaders could not; even if one is destroyed, the other five are not affected.

So to summarize; redundancy could be achieved much more efficiently with six one-mortar machines instead of one six-mortar, and one-mortar machines could be perfectly fine with simple-action reloaders. No need for articulated arms.

 

[Dilandu]

Don't understand this topic.

Some kid have quite original, but impractical idea.

 

[li zhuo peng]

The thing you are talking about is called "redundancy", and while it's generally good to have, it could be much easier achieved by just having several mortar carriers each with single mortar and simple reloader. Then in case of one being disabled (due to enemy fire or malfunction), the others would continue to operate.

Your six-mortar platform with complex manipulators could be completely destroyed by just one good (good for the other guy, of course) hit. Six single-mortar platforms with simple reloaders could not; even if one is destroyed, the other five are not affected.

So to summarize; redundancy could be achieved much more efficiently with six one-mortar machines instead of one six-mortar, and one-mortar machines could be perfectly fine with simple-action reloaders. No need for articulated arms.

You still don’t get the point of article, The chapter said AI can instead of 12 men or18 men with control six mortar systems. Let 18 men don’t risk their lives complete mission. You said several mortar carriers each with single mortar and simple reloader, that’s need 12 men at least.
Six mortar carries? And how much cost?

I don’t know a soldier with experience calculate the coordinate of enemy position need how much time, may be several minutes , But AI system calculate the accuracy position of enemy just need 0.1 second to 1 second. If you don’t want to be strike back by hostile fire, then you run away after fire,the time is vital!


You mention six robotic arms and six mortars will complete destroyed by one big strike, that’s impossible unless the armored vehicle and systems were direct hit by a 120mm mortar shell or 152 mm shell.

 

[Dilandu]

The chapter said AI can instead of 12 men or18 men with control six mortar systems. Let 18 men don’t risk their lives complete mission. You said several mortar carriers each with single mortar and simple reloader, that’s need 12 men at least.

Sigh. What exactly - besides your utter incompetence, of course - would forbid from having six AI-controlled single mortar carriers, eh?

 

[li zhuo peng]

Naturally,the merit of AMOS enclosed turret bulletproof from 7.62mm or 7.92 mm machine gun,or protect crews from 60mm mortar shell direct hit at least, I think.




But armour vehicle will install extra 20mm steel panel , it protect AI system and multiple mortar from hurt of small caliber ammunition

 

[li zhuo peng]

I don’t know a soldier with experience calculate the coordinate of enemy position need how much time, may be several minutes , But AI system calculate the accuracy position of enemy just need 0.1 second to 1 second. If you don’t want to be strike back by hostile fire, then you run away after fire,the time is vital!

AN/TPQ-53, the latest generation of anti artillery radar of US, it can use 90 degree or 360 degree zone search function to detect and track shells fired by mortars, artillery, and rocket systems in the air. This high-precision radar has an indirect firing target locking system, which detects and instructs counterattacks on the battlefield.


picture: AN/TPQ-53 anti artillery radar






1) Target acquisition for anti artillery radar: approximately 10-60 seconds (altitude correction through digital maps only takes 10 seconds; manual correction takes 20 seconds, and voice correction takes 60 seconds)

2) Fire direction Center Preparation Time: 35 seconds

3) Preparation time for platoon: 45 seconds (analog system)/35 seconds (digital system)

4) Cannon preparation time: 30 seconds (M119A3)/45 seconds (M109A6)/1 minute (M777A2)

above time add up is the theoretical reaction speed of US military's anti artillery firepower.

 

[li zhuo peng]

On battlefield of Ukraine, Ukraine army refit suicide drone attacked the weakness of Russian battle tank armor. Cause shells induced detonation in turret of Russian tank, So must give extra protection for mortar shells in armor vehicle.

Each mortar has 60 round shells, 60 round shells store in a bomb bay, total have six bomb bays in vehicle.

Each bomb compartment has two layer armor protection, 20mm steel panels and 30 mm bulletproof ceramic plate.


picture : suicide drone




vedio : suicide drone attack the Russian tank ,shells induced detonation

https://www.douyin.com/video/7364704443801144576

picture: Six bomb bays, and 60 round shells per bomb bay.

​

 

[li zhuo peng]

Of course, artificial intelligence system number X and armor vehicle can not resist the attack from RPG anti tank grenade.

For example, The RPG-28 fires a anti tank grenade with a series of warheads, which detonates explosive reaction armor and penetrates steel armor with a thickness over 900 millimeters. The maximum aiming range is 300 meters.


If a soldier hide in hole on ground fire the RPG shoot the AI system Number X, it need another AI system Number X2 take cover, artificial intelligence system Number X2 control four twins barrel 7.92mm machine guns search and shoot the target at the meantime,
7.92 mm machine guns are installed in a rotating turret.

On other side, the AI Number X2 manipulate 16 Hornet S suicide drones. One suicide drone load a 2.5kg cucumber bomb.

picture : the rpg29 and rpg 28 Anti tank rocket launcher




picture : RPG launcher fire




Picture : AI system Number X2 control rotating turret with twins barrel machine guns.



Picture: a soldier hide in a hollow hole, he use a RPG28 launcher shoot this AI Number X and armor vehicle.







AI Number X2 manipulate the twins barrel machine guns and hornet S suicide drone fire back.




Hornet S suicide drone parameter: weigh 7.5kg, load a cucumber bomb ,1800 gram TNT explosive in cucumber bomb.

 

[martinbayer]

It's called "multi-tasking"...

 

[li zhuo peng]

Presume two suicide drones of enemy or three suicide drones fly to armor vehicle synchronization, the AI Number X2 collaborate with X wavebands radar, shoot them down.
Butterfly S suicide drone , weigh 8.9kg, carry a bomb 3.2KG.



Eight 7.92mm machine guns all fire ,interweaving into a firepower network

 

[li zhuo peng]

FGM148 Javelin anti tank missile

The weapon system consists of missiles and launch devices. The total weight of the system is 22.5 kilograms, missile weighs 11.8 kilograms. The series warhead attacks the target in a top attack manner, breaking through the steel armor by 750 millimeters. Image infrared guidance. Adopting two-stage solid thrusters.

The Javelin missile adopts advanced infrared guidance technology and has an active/passive dual-mode guidance system, it strike targets with high precision in various environmental . The missile has a range of over 4 kilometers and strike various tanks and armored targets.
AI Number X2 can control two FGM148 systems attack battle tanks in the meantime


picture: FGM148 missile system and T72 battle tank



Picture: AI control FGM148 weapon system




Picture: a T-72 battle tank shoot a 125mm armor piercing shell at AI number X2, AI number X2 launch FGM148 missile attack T-72.