Arleigh Burke Class Sets A Record

XP67_Moonbat

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091231/ap_on_bi_ge/us_warship_record

I should know, I saw enough of 'em while I was stationed in Norfolk.

Moonbat
 

phil gollin

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Typical "spin".

Making a virtue out of the disasters that have been the USN's plans for new cruiser and destroyer classes.

Jolly good luck the the Burkes and the sailors in them, but the design should have been replaced at least a decade ago (or the design stretched somewhat).

.
 

JFC Fuller

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phil gollin said:
Typical "spin".

Making a virtue out of the disasters that have been the USN's plans for new cruiser and destroyer classes.

Jolly good luck the the Burkes and the sailors in them, but the design should have been replaced at least a decade ago (or the design stretched somewhat).

.

Why? The Burke hits the sweet spot where it is affordable enough to be ordered in the numbers required (hence why there will be 65 of them at least) and the class is still the most capable surface combatant class (with the possible exception of the Ticos) in the world. I do not dispute that USN construction programmes have been a disaster in recent years but the Burke is a truly outstanding platform and part of the failure was in realising just how good the design is. Quite what you were going to replace them with a decade ago I dont know, only now are ships more technologically advanced than them (the RN T45) although still less capable, being commissioned. Not to mention the upgrades in both combat and platform management systems that have been undertaken on the class and propulsive improvements are also on the cards.
 

XP67_Moonbat

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Better to be an Arleigh Burke than the old "Spru-cans" though. I feel the Arleigh Burkes are still quite capable and I was damn glad to have them in my battle group.

A shipmate who transferred to the Spruance Class O'Bannon always called it as the "O'Broke", referring to the fact she spent more time pierside than at sea.

Is it a wonder that when the O'Broke was decommed, instead of being sold Turkey as originally planned, was used instead for target practice.

It's going to be a long time before the Arleigh Burkes get to this point. We'll be seeing them a while longer.
 

sferrin

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XP67_Moonbat said:
Better to be an Arleigh Burke than the old "Spru-cans" though. I feel the Arleigh Burkes are still quite capable and I was damn glad to have them in my battle group.

A shipmate who transferred to the Spruance Class O'Bannon always called it as the "O'Broke", referring to the fact she spent more time pierside than at sea.

Is it a wonder that when the O'Broke was decommed, instead of being sold Turkey as originally planned, was used instead for target practice.

It's going to be a long time before the Arleigh Burkes get to this point. We'll be seeing them a while longer.

The only thing they are really lacking is a decent antiship missile. Consider that with a HyFly or RATTLRS based antiship missile you could add to that SM-3, various SM-2 blocks, ESSM, ASROC, Tomahawk, and two helicopters (for the Flight II/IIAs). That enables you to take out pretty much anything.
 

JFC Fuller

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sferrin said:
XP67_Moonbat said:
Better to be an Arleigh Burke than the old "Spru-cans" though. I feel the Arleigh Burkes are still quite capable and I was damn glad to have them in my battle group.

A shipmate who transferred to the Spruance Class O'Bannon always called it as the "O'Broke", referring to the fact she spent more time pierside than at sea.

Is it a wonder that when the O'Broke was decommed, instead of being sold Turkey as originally planned, was used instead for target practice.

It's going to be a long time before the Arleigh Burkes get to this point. We'll be seeing them a while longer.

The only thing they are really lacking is a decent antiship missile. Consider that with a HyFly or RATTLRS based antiship missile you could add to that SM-3, various SM-2 blocks, ESSM, ASROC, Tomahawk, and two helicopters (for the Flight II/IIAs). That enables you to take out pretty much anything.

Sferrin,

That is exactly it, the class is the most capable and versatile surface combattant of any navy in the world. The astonishing thing is how many of them the USN actually has!
 

RyanC

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sferrin said:
The only thing they are really lacking is a decent antiship missile

They already have it. It's called SM-2 in anti-ship mode. Sure, it only goes out a little bit beyond the horizon, but then again, IIRC Harpoon had the same limitation.
 

sferrin

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RyanCrierie said:
sferrin said:
The only thing they are really lacking is a decent antiship missile

They already have it. It's called SM-2 in anti-ship mode. Sure, it only goes out a little bit beyond the horizon, but then again, IIRC Harpoon had the same limitation.

Harpoon has a 70-100+ mile range depending on the version. Horizon range might be okay against small patrol boats with nothing better but I don't think I'd want to go up against anything eqiupped with Brahmos, Sizzler, or SS-N-22 without something better.
 

JFC Fuller

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sferrin said:
RyanCrierie said:
sferrin said:
The only thing they are really lacking is a decent antiship missile

They already have it. It's called SM-2 in anti-ship mode. Sure, it only goes out a little bit beyond the horizon, but then again, IIRC Harpoon had the same limitation.

Harpoon has a 70-100+ mile range depending on the version. Horizon range might be okay against small patrol boats with nothing better but I don't think I'd want to go up against anything eqiupped with Brahmos, Sizzler, or SS-N-22 without something better.

Just bare in mind that many of the people who tout these fancy 300km AShM's frequently lack the ability to actually find something to fire them at at that range. ;)
 

Just call me Ray

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sferrin said:
Horizon range might be okay against small patrol boats with nothing better but I don't think I'd want to go up against anything eqiupped with Brahmos, Sizzler, or SS-N-22 without something better.

Just take that same SM-2 and use it in anti-missile mode.
 

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Just call me Ray said:
sferrin said:
Horizon range might be okay against small patrol boats with nothing better but I don't think I'd want to go up against anything eqiupped with Brahmos, Sizzler, or SS-N-22 without something better.

Just take that same SM-2 and use it in anti-missile mode.

If you can point the illuminator at it you can hit it.
 

sferrin

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Just call me Ray said:
sferrin said:
Horizon range might be okay against small patrol boats with nothing better but I don't think I'd want to go up against anything eqiupped with Brahmos, Sizzler, or SS-N-22 without something better.

Just take that same SM-2 and use it in anti-missile mode.

No kidding. That isn't going to knock out the ship that's over the horizon shooting at you though is it?
 

JFC Fuller

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sferrin said:
Just call me Ray said:
sferrin said:
Horizon range might be okay against small patrol boats with nothing better but I don't think I'd want to go up against anything eqiupped with Brahmos, Sizzler, or SS-N-22 without something better.

Just take that same SM-2 and use it in anti-missile mode.

No kidding. That isn't going to knock out the ship that's over the horizon shooting at you though is it?

No but it will take out the helo from that ship that is trying to provide the targeting data and any other airborne assets undertaking the same role. ;)
 

Just call me Ray

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sferrin said:
Just call me Ray said:
sferrin said:
Horizon range might be okay against small patrol boats with nothing better but I don't think I'd want to go up against anything eqiupped with Brahmos, Sizzler, or SS-N-22 without something better.

Just take that same SM-2 and use it in anti-missile mode.

No kidding. That isn't going to knock out the ship that's over the horizon shooting at you though is it?

No but that doesn't seem to be a goal the Navy is currently concerned with.
 

JFC Fuller

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Just call me Ray said:
sferrin said:
Just call me Ray said:
sferrin said:
Horizon range might be okay against small patrol boats with nothing better but I don't think I'd want to go up against anything eqiupped with Brahmos, Sizzler, or SS-N-22 without something better.

Just take that same SM-2 and use it in anti-missile mode.

No kidding. That isn't going to knock out the ship that's over the horizon shooting at you though is it?

No but that doesn't seem to be a goal the Navy is currently concerned with.

Actually there have been efforts by Raytheon to modify the latest block Tomahawk to provide a degree of AShM capability. However in general you are right the USN does not seem overly fussed by this at the moment.
 

Abraham Gubler

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sferrin said:
Harpoon has a 70-100+ mile range depending on the version. Horizon range might be okay against small patrol boats with nothing better but I don't think I'd want to go up against anything eqiupped with Brahmos, Sizzler, or SS-N-22 without something better.

So by this application of military insight it is clear that the only measure of lethality is speed? You’ve got to stop all that surfing through Air Power Australia’s website!

The Harpoon is still a very effective anti ship missile. It may not come charging over the horizon with a massive radar and IR signature to run head on into any point defence. Rather it sneaks in through the back door using long endurance, and highly capable guidance to approach from the least expected direction. It has a stealthy front end and a very small IR signature so it’s hard to see until it is upon you.

Though of course the best anti ship weapon the US Navy has is its fast attacks and carrier battle groups. They beat a Brahmos, SUNBURN, et al in any reasonable lethality measure.
 

sferrin

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Abraham Gubler said:
sferrin said:
Harpoon has a 70-100+ mile range depending on the version. Horizon range might be okay against small patrol boats with nothing better but I don't think I'd want to go up against anything eqiupped with Brahmos, Sizzler, or SS-N-22 without something better.

So by this application of military insight it is clear that the only measure of lethality is speed? You’ve got to stop all that surfing through Air Power Australia’s website!

Brahmos and Sizzler have about triple the range of Harpoon. ::)
 

JFC Fuller

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sferrin said:
Abraham Gubler said:
sferrin said:
Harpoon has a 70-100+ mile range depending on the version. Horizon range might be okay against small patrol boats with nothing better but I don't think I'd want to go up against anything eqiupped with Brahmos, Sizzler, or SS-N-22 without something better.

So by this application of military insight it is clear that the only measure of lethality is speed? You’ve got to stop all that surfing through Air Power Australia’s website!

Brahmos and Sizzler have about triple the range of Harpoon. ::)

According to open sources, only about half the range. However the actual range is highly classified. And once again we are back to the targeting issue.
 

sferrin

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sealordlawrence said:
sferrin said:
Abraham Gubler said:
sferrin said:
Harpoon has a 70-100+ mile range depending on the version. Horizon range might be okay against small patrol boats with nothing better but I don't think I'd want to go up against anything eqiupped with Brahmos, Sizzler, or SS-N-22 without something better.

So by this application of military insight it is clear that the only measure of lethality is speed? You’ve got to stop all that surfing through Air Power Australia’s website!

Brahmos and Sizzler have about triple the range of Harpoon. ::)

According to open sources, only about half the range. However the actual range is highly classified. And once again we are back to the targeting issue.

You're claiming Brahmos and Sizzler only have 35 mile range? More like 220km-300km for Klub and 290km for Brahmos according to most sources.
 

JFC Fuller

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Nope, I am saying that in Km Harpoons stated range is over 120km and its actual range is probably significantly greater. But again, once you get out byond the Horizon you have to find a way of targeting an AShM and few Navies can pull that of.
 

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