Are classic Hornets thrust potential limited by intake design?

R

Radical

Guest
One of the big downsides of the classic Hornets is that it's somewhat underpowered compared to every other teen series fighter except F-14. Even the most powerful engine, the F404-GE-402 can only give the classic Hornet a loaded T/W of 0.96. Hypothetically, is it possible to fit more powerful engines on the classic Hornet without redesigning the intakes?
 
You could fit more powerful engines if they use the same inlet mass flow that's designed into the Hornet. They would get the higher thrust by using newer materials and getting greater efficiency from the engine, such as having a higher temp hot section.
 
Sundog said:
You could fit more powerful engines if they use the same inlet mass flow that's designed into the Hornet. They would get the higher thrust by using newer materials and getting greater efficiency from the engine, such as having a higher temp hot section.
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Thing is, there's likely no market for developing more thrust for Hornets A-D. Wouldn't gain that much if that's the only thing changed. Plus, with Boeing still trying to win a contest with the Super Bug (remember Australia was a special case), it's probably not going to be very cooperative with something it would see as competition.
 
Obviously this won't be particularly competitive sales-wise against the other options out there. This is just a hypothetical scenario. F/A-18s struggle in an energy fight against the F-16, and I was wondering if that has to do with the engines.
 
Radical said:
Obviously this won't be particularly competitive against the other options out there. This is just a hypothetical scenario. F/A-18s struggle in an energy fight against the F-16, and I was wondering if that has to do with the engines.
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There's also drag.

Close in against a F-16, a Hornet would attempt to use its far superior high AoA capabilites rather than try and play to the t Falcon's energy strength.
 
F-14D said:
Thing is, there's likely no market for developing more thrust for Hornets A-D. Wouldn't gain that much if that's the only thing changed. Plus, with Boeing still trying to win a contest with the Super Bug (remember Australia was a special case), it's probably not going to be very cooperative with something it would see as competition.
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I agree completely, I was just viewing it as a "What if" type question.
 
Radical said:
Obviously this won't be particularly competitive against the other options out there. This is just a hypothetical scenario. F/A-18s struggle in an energy fight against the F-16, and I was wondering if that has to do with the engines.
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Thrust to weight margins aren't just determined by the engine’s thrust but also by the aircraft’s weight. The F/A-18 is designed for a very different capability than the F-16 so carries a lot more weight. However if you were to compare the YF-17 to the YF-16 and you’ll find they are about the same (~1.2).
 
PaulMM (Overscan) said:
F/A-18 is carrying several thousand pounds of naval landing capability.
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So did the F-8 and the F-4.

I'd like to again bring up drag, since it's a component just as big as thrust/weight. The Hornet is not as "slick" as the Viper, partly due to the wing design. An illustration of how important that can be, is that much of the hoped for range increase on in internal fuel for the Super Bug vs, the Classic was expected to be the result of drag reduction. The increased internal fuel load serves mainly to offset the greater fuel burn of the F414s.

I can also use my namesake as an example. The F--4 had a better thrust to weight ratio than the F-14A, but the Tomcat would out accelerate it (unless the TF30s quit). |Both starting at 250 knots, the Hornet would outaccelerate the A, but as you got to the higher subsonics, the A would catch up. And the B/D, which had the engines for which the Tomcat was designed, really accelerated. The F-14 was less "draggy" than you'd think by looking at it.
 
[quote author=F-14D]And the B/D, which had the engines for which the Tomcat was designed[/quote]
how do you say it in English , opening a can of worms ?
 

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