An odd combination of weapons

[klem]

At first glance it's a Browning MG with a Colt pistol, if I'm not mistaken, which must surely date from the ww1 period. A rather unusual combination, what is the purpose of the function of this mechanism?

 

[TomS]

At first glance it's a Browning MG with a Colt pistol, if I'm not mistaken, which must surely date from the ww1 period. A rather unusual combination, what is the purpose of the function of this mechanism?

Probably training with cheaper pistol ammunition instead of full power MG ammo.

 

[MadRat]

The pistol was for shows offs that operated in god mode.

A little pow-pow to go with rat-a-tat-tat.

 

[perttime]

A .22 rimfire pistol would allow cheap basic training almost anywhere that has some sort of a backstop. No need to go to a big range to verify that your boys can aim.

 

[CJGibson]

Great War version of a Johnny Seven gun*.
I have a hazy recollection of a photo of a Bren fitted to something like a Bofors for AA practice but don't remember where I saw it.

Chris
*if you remember this, you're showing your age.

 

[perttime]

I recall practise on a "light" anti tank weapon that had a subcaliber attachment for firing a pistol round.

 

[timmymagic]

I recall practise on a "light" anti tank weapon that had a subcaliber attachment for firing a pistol round.

This one?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHvmeyA-8rQ

 

[timmymagic]

Great War version of a Johnny Seven gun*.
I have a hazy recollection of a photo of a Bren fitted to something like a Bofors for AA practice but don't remember where I saw it.

Chris
*if you remember this, you're showing your age.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ForgottenWeapons/comments/t232jt

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/ForgottenWeapons/comments/t232jt/british_40x311mmr_bofors_with_coaxial_77x56mmr/


Used for training with Tracer.

 

[perttime]

I recall practise on a "light" anti tank weapon that had a subcaliber attachment for firing a pistol round.

This one?

...

No. I'm pretty sure it was

55 S 55 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[riggerrob]

Back in the good-old-days, Canadian tankers inserted a .22 chamber into a Sherman tank barrel to practice tank-gunnery on an indoor, small-bore range.

 

[klem]

Subcaliber firing with coaxial weapon was used for training for tank crews.here a standard submachine gun mounted outside the tank.

 

[perttime]

Coincidentally, somebody on a Finnish model flying forum just mentioned machineguns mounted on ZU-23-2 AA guns for practice. Specifially, busy nights in 80s and 90s, repairing target drones after hits from 7.62mm bullets were mentioned.

(Didn't find any pics or information on what exactly the co-axial gun was)

edit:
An assault rifle, presumably Rk 62 (improved AK), was attached to the ZU-23-2.
Mounting a former aircraft machinegun, with longer rounds, on 40mm Bofors guns was also mentioned.

 

[klem]

The American Arsenal - The World War II - Official Standard Ordnance Catalogue-Introduction by Ian V.Hogg-2014

 

[dan_inbox]

Was standard on the late version of Magach tanks (M60 upgrades)

 

[klem]

some seemingly similar subcaliber weapon systems may be confusing and seem like tank gunnery training practice but in fact their mission is quite different like Counter-sniper/anti-material mount , abbreviated as CSAMM, is a remote weapon system , the M2 .50cal Machinegun is not a coaxial machinegun, it was used against sniper and material without requiring the gunner to use the 120mm tank gun.(http://www.gunmasters.com/CSAMM-PHOTOS.htm ).

 

[dan_inbox]

It is also useful against ATGM crews.

 

[BB1984]

some seemingly similar subcaliber weapon systems may be confusing and seem like tank gunnery training practice but in fact their mission is quite different like Counter-sniper/anti-material mount , abbreviated as CSAMM, is a remote weapon system , the M2 .50cal Machinegun is not a coaxial machinegun, it was used against sniper and material without requiring the gunner to use the 120mm tank gun.(http://www.gunmasters.com/CSAMM-PHOTOS.htm ).

At least one thread for this development goes back to the Telfare device, a mount for a .50 over the tank main gun for low cost training. The US not only used these, they provided them to Israel for the same purpose.

The Israelis saw the possible combat use, especially for urban operations, since it allowed precise firing (using the tank FCS) of relatively few rounds, heavy enough to penetrate cover but without significant collateral damage. However they didn't like the Telfare for this purpose because it had too much flexibility in the mounting for operational use, so they refined/improved the mounting. The idea then came back to the US via observation of the Israeli experience with them in Lebanon (for instance it's advocated in a 2001 edition of Armor magazine). I'm not sure if the Israelis initially used the Telfare and then improved it after combat use, or just saw the application and then only used their own improved version(s) in combat.

Just FYI, the Telfare was named after its inventor, SFC Nathaniel Telfare who was a US Army tank gunnery instructor.