Also, the Ackley Improved geometry allows you to still use the original ammunition safely.
Neckless 5.56 is backwards compatible! 5.56 headspaces on the shoulder!
Longer receivers are NOT cheap. Even with recycling just about everything off existing weapons.
Flechettes have awful soft tissue lethality and performed terribly in ACR! The only real improvement on 5.56mm at combat ranges (0-200m) was duplex 5.56mm.
I was thinking of Emerich Daniau's neckless 5.56 which doesn't actually change the chamber they just allow a longer bullet by cutting the neck off. 5.56x45mm headspaces on the shoulder so its basically free real estate to get better ogive length.
There's no reason, IMO, to go beyond improvements to 5.56. 6.8 as a concept is a dead end, but that doesn't sell guns people don't want to hear it.
A whole new accurate cluster of three in a classless rd. These rds would need ballistic performance as short range lethal salvos so as do more than maim. Many rd mags would need to fit in a small wpn. Soldiers would need to carry hundreds.of rds. Ballistic development et al never lasted long enough to perfect these bullets. It was to difficult at the time & there were many issues which would have taken time.
Oh, that's really interesting! That short neck makes me really nervous for bullet retention, though. It is violent inside a receiver under semi-auto conditions, nevermind full auto.
6.8 is still viable as the MG/DMR round. It's just not viable as the basic Individual Weapon round.
You do know that an M67 "baseball" grenade fits into those, right?
It would've bern cool if someone invents something like, I don't know, a way to fire a grenade from a rifle.
A flechett pistol might also be used as personal counter UAS as well as counter mini-mine. Masses of Russian 3d printed mini-mines seem to be thing currently.
Textron also promoted a 5.56 and 6.5 version... i just like the CT concept.
Infantry flechettes were worked on fairly consistently by AAI from the 50s to 80s! They never could get them to reliably perform better than 5.56x45mm. It's a fairly clear dead end, even moreso with modern understanding of wounding mechanics.
For sure. In principle it should crimp fine, but who knows. Apparently the NAS3 cases crimp really well due to steel's mechanical properties vs brass but nobody has tried neckless NAS3 yet. It may run into weird tension issues.
40mm grenade launchers and rifle grenades are cool! Someone should convince the army to adopt a fuse that doesn't take up like half the volume of the projectile!
Flechettes and buckshot all have dispersion, range, and energy retention issues, and switching mags or carrying a shotgun kind of sucks.
Why not split the difference with a light (±60-65gr) ±5.5mm round at ±3150-3500... then you don't need two guns glued together or a laser telling the enemy where you are? Or expensive computers and a trigger that can break.
They don't have the mass to actually fragment and cause damage like EPR type bullets do. IIRC they tend to ice pick through, or tumble but they're smaller than a normal bullet.
The big bullet muzzle energy would be around 12k ft-lbs, major stopping power for soft skinned vehicles and heavy body armor. With a computerized scope you can get armor piercing rounds into tight spots to kill vehicles. The lighter round would be to penetrate these new exotic body armors at close quarters. A computer would get rounds on target which is its own dimensional quality.
Just use a light AT weapon instead of putting essentially a .50 BMG rifle on your assault rifle. The M72 LAW exists, you don't need a boys rifle for everyone.
AAIs flechette shotgun rd reduced to caseless w /3, 4 or 6 projectiles doesn't need range above 50m. Flechette were a dead end because ur not gonna get 300m accuracy out of a dart. Probably barely a 100ms. That is not what a 50m rg "clear the close threat in the hide space" capability is after.
I'm dubious of smart helmets, and that's all going to cost a ton of money but a beam riding or SALH rocket derived from APKWS should be eminently possible? Or just normal FPVs.
Thought we were discussing carrying to few rds. BMG & AT are low density assets especially when clearing rural compounds w 3 builds & 3 separately spaced cellular like ukr. Ur outta grenades & rds at the 2nd compound.
Where is all that cash & carrying size & weight coming from? Whole Batts are asked to equip everyone to clear dwellings.
Why would you use flechettes instead of normal bullets and hand grenades? It's a lot of money for lower performance!
Attachment 2, left to right:
Guess have to repeat E Stoner said studies showed most fired rds in Vietnam were as recon fire not even at a target but at space someone could b hiding in. Video footage from the current front displays this repeatedly. As u stated 6xs are heavy & you won't have enough. To augment the MBR a pistol firing voumns of projectikes saves all ur grenade & rds for long shots & genuine grenade needs. Jeeper. how often must repeat.
Armored piercing flechetts r a different granimal.
Per RUSI, the typical loadout for a Ukranian assaulter is 12-15x 30 round magazines and 4-6x hand grenades, with resupply by UAV, in a seven soldier section. The shortage of ammunition I've referenced is in reference to the US Army moving to 6.8x51mm.
Pretty much the same amount soldier were lugging during the Vietnam war.
You do not type very clearly. My point has always been that 6.8 is a mistake and 5.56 does the job relatively fine and has room to be further developed for higher performance at relatively low cost. The goal, in my view, is to lighten the rifle and ammunition if possible (through new alloys or moving away from brass cases) to allow the soldier to carry more ammunition.
If ur MBR is that large clearing close potentially threating hide spaces like inside a basement window requires not ur MBR rds. A Flechett pistol/carbine suppresses or incapacitates anyone in there though you don't have los on tgt.
Yep, and in Vietnam we found that 5.56x45 was a great round!
