AI art and creative content creation

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Orionblamblam said:
Justo Miranda said:
Some time ago I read a science fiction short story about a guy who repaired machines called logicos, they were the size of a refrigerator (technology of the fifties). These devices were used as data banks to provide simple information to people and there was one in each house. One of these machines breaks down and the guy trying to fix it discovers to his horror that the damn machine answers any questions about sex, politics, or safe procedures for stealing or killing someone specifically without leaving evidence. I would like to read it again but I do not remember the title or the author. Can anyone help?
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Shazam!

A Logic Named Joe​

"A Logic Named Joe" is a science fiction short story by American writer Murray Leinster, first published in the March 1946 issue of Astounding Science Fiction. (The story appeared under Leinster's real name, Will F. Jenkins. That issue of Astounding also included a story under the Leinster pseudonym called "Adapter".) The story is particularly noteworthy as a prediction of massively networked personal computers and their drawbacks, written at a time when computing was in its infancy.

Plot​

The story's narrator is a "logic repairman" nicknamed Ducky. A "logic" is a computer-like device described as looking "like a vision receiver used to, only it's got keys instead of dials and you punch the keys for what you wanna get".

In the story, a logic (whom Ducky later calls Joe) develops some degree of sapience and ambition. Joe proceeds to switch around a few relays in "the tank" (one of a distributed set of central information repositories), and cross-correlate all information ever assembled – yielding highly unexpected results. It then proceeds to freely disseminate all of those results to everyone on demand (and simultaneously disabling all of the content-filtering protocols). Logics begin offering up unexpected assistance to everyone which includes designing custom chemicals that alleviate inebriation, giving sex advice to small children, and plotting the perfect murder.

Eventually Ducky "saves civilization" by locating and turning off the only logic capable of doing this.
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Thanks!
 
Orionblamblam said:
Justo Miranda said:
What you're saying is that AI can be used by a guy who hates humanity to get his revenge by relatively simple means.
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Certainly easier than by means of conventional, chemical or nuclear weapons. A single nut-genius would be doing *astonishingly* good to collect all the parts needed for a single nuke, or to steal one. And now he can destroy an entire city. *Maybe* trick the US/Russia or China/India or India/Pakistan or whoever into nuking each other. But worldwide destruction? Nah. But a 2050's emo kid with a brain, a grudge, a Jr. Evil Scientist Chem Lab and a connection to the internet? Whoever is in charge of stopping worldwide genetically engineered pandemics would have their hands full, 24/7.

SkyNet would do well to use biological weapons rather than nukes. Nukes are, from an AI's perspective, wasteful. Genetic weapons would be easy. If its goal was simple human extinction, that'd be a snap. If its goal was the extermination of all life... genetic weapons would make a fantastic dent in the planetary population of all living things; just wipe out the pesky humans first.

Justo Miranda said:
Some time ago I read a fictional novel about a biologist who loses his wife to an IRA attack a
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"The White Plague" by Frank Herbert.
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I don't like the idea but I think I should agree with what you say, there is a Chinese curse that says, "I wish you to live in interesting historical times."
 
edwest3 said:
Sigh. I am a working editor. Fictional fiction is neither credible or entertaining and it's too far out for 99.99999999999% of the population. For good fiction, it's got to be entertaining and plausible.
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Define "fictional fiction." Because what's being discussed here is a form of science fiction (and fairly *hard* sci-fi at that, as it's extrapolation based on observable trends and requirign no known change to the laws of physics), trending towards post apocalyptic sci-fi.

And that shit makes *billions.* Hell, the very niche market of "AI tries to destroy mankind" is extensive, from "Colossus" to "Terminator" to
"I, Robot," "Ex Machina," The Matrix" and so on.

And if you think the public demands "plausible," allow me to introduce you to "The Marvel Cinematic Universe," that used to pull in a billion dollars a flick until people started getting bored with it. Just a few days ago I paid way too much to see - and enjoy - a cartoon movie about a talking, sword-weilding cat searching for a "wishing star" in order to get back eight lives it had pissed away, going up against a trio of talking bears and a wolf that turns out to be the physical manifestation of Death. Unless the world is quite a bit different from how it has been presented to me, not a damn thing about it was "plausible."
 
Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't.

- Mark Twain
 
Orionblamblam said:
edwest3 said:
Sigh. I am a working editor. Fictional fiction is neither credible or entertaining and it's too far out for 99.99999999999% of the population. For good fiction, it's got to be entertaining and plausible.
Click to expand...
Define "fictional fiction." Because what's being discussed here is a form of science fiction (and fairly *hard* sci-fi at that, as it's extrapolation based on observable trends and requirign no known change to the laws of physics), trending towards post apocalyptic sci-fi.

And that shit makes *billions.* Hell, the very niche market of "AI tries to destroy mankind" is extensive, from "Colossus" to "Terminator" to
"I, Robot," "Ex Machina," The Matrix" and so on.

And if you think the public demands "plausible," allow me to introduce you to "The Marvel Cinematic Universe," that used to pull in a billion dollars a flick until people started getting bored with it. Just a few days ago I paid way too much to see - and enjoy - a cartoon movie about a talking, sword-weilding cat searching for a "wishing star" in order to get back eight lives it had pissed away, going up against a trio of talking bears and a wolf that turns out to be the physical manifestation of Death. Unless the world is quite a bit different from how it has been presented to me, not a damn thing about it was "plausible."
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You seem a bit worked up. I forgot that I was trying to explain storytelling to a fan boy. Won't happen again.
 
edwest3 said:

You seem a bit worked up. I forgot that I was trying to explain storytelling to a fan boy. Won't happen again.
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That's an interesting response with several takeaways:
1: "worked up" is clearly projection on your part. You seem to see yourself as some sort of Cultural Better, and here's some outsider point out not only how wrong you are, but telling you that the job that you think makes you special will liekly soon be replaced by a glorified app.

2:: Your argument was that there is no market for "fictional fiction." You've failed to explain what sets that apart from "fiction," other than to say that there's no audience for "fictional fiction" that is not "plausible." And then you not only accuse me of being a "fanboy" of said "fictional fiction" - thus pointing out that Right Here is an audience, you ignore the billions of dollars that non-plausible fiction makes annually.

There are some roles that cannot be replaced with AI soon enough.
 
Let us all bow down before our new AI masters.

Oh brother...

:)

I know a lot of fanboys. Most are not storytellers. Just like most cannot build a brick wall.
 
edwest3 said:
I know a lot of fanboys.
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But you just said that "it's too far out for 99.99999999999% of the population." Out of 8 billion people, that leaves 0.0008 of a person, not "a lot." Now I'm sure you're going to take issue with your obvious hyperbole being taken seriously, but then, wouldn't it be better to actually be honest and open in the first place?

And so far you continually refuse to actually try to refute my arguments. You're stuck at "nuh-uh."
 
Highly disturbing. But hey it will muddy the waters just in case real blackmail gets leaked!
 
For celebrities (actors, politicians, etc.) this actually poses a useful possibility. Did you do something unfortunate? Did you, say, visit a Certain Island and engage in Certain Unfortunate Activities? Are there rumors of secretly recorded videos of you engaging in such things, videos that, if they got out, would ruin your career? There's an easy answer! Film your own version of that video. But... deep fake your face onto the star of the show. Do a good job of it. Perhaps even a *really* good job, But not a *perfect* job. Then "leak" the video. Let it hit the web, let it go viral. Have your minions *make* it go viral. Let the outrage begin; then get out there and deny it and all involvement. Express shock, revusion and denial. And then... have some (apparently) neutral third party review the video and find the little flaws that prove it's a Deep Fake.

senator-vreenak.gif


This whole process will likely be uncomfortable for you. But guess what? Once you get through it, you're now pretty much immune. When the *real* video evidence comes out... guess what? You can blow that off as fake too. Maybe not everyone will buy it... but enough will. You will have pre-sown doubt.
 
Darn. My Outrage Meter is in the shop and without it, I have no idea how I should react. I'll have to... gasp... ignore ALL this nonsense and just live my life as I have before the internet.
 
Orionblamblam said:
Let the outrage begin; then get out there and deny it and all involvement. Express shock, revusion and denial. And then... have some (apparently) neutral third party review the video and find the little flaws that prove it's a Deep Fake.
This whole process will likely be uncomfortable for you. But guess what? Once you get through it, you're now pretty much immune. When the *real* video evidence comes out... guess what? You can blow that off as fake too. Maybe not everyone will buy it... but enough will. You will have pre-sown doubt.
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But there will always be rumors and suspicion that something really did happen... And people who got caught doing *that* ( extreme sexual acts or other compulsions) are most likely to be(come) repeat offenders... That kind of people feel the need to scratch that itch and think that deepfakes will rescue them again and will that even bigger risks next time around. But maybe the next time there might be law officers standing behind them, caught them in the act with their pants down. Hard to fake that.. How rich and powerful they think they are, getting caught in the act is usually a sign for their peers to drop them like yesterdays turd.
Deepfakes can fool us, but not all of us all the time.
 
BAROBA said:
Deepfakes can fool us, but not all of us all the time.
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All/all isn't the goal. There are always going to be people suspicious of actual scumbags; there are always going to be people suspicious of *non* scumbags. There will always be people who will buy the wackiest conspiracy theory, and there will always be those who will refuse to see the obvious. The purpose of using DF tech against yourself is to sow enough doubt to make future accusations that you *know* are coming look unreliable to a large enough fraction of the populace.

No politician these days is looking to score the great majority of the public. They know they have a core of fanatics who will vote for them no matter what; the politicians job is to grab as much as the middle as they need to to squeak over the finish line. That's why you get politicians courting whackos and weirdoes.
 
edwest3 said:
Darn. My Outrage Meter is in the shop and without it, I have no idea how I should react. I'll have to... gasp... ignore ALL this nonsense and just live my life as I have before the internet.
Click to expand...

After discovering the Dutroux affair many years ago my outrage meter has been thoroughly detuned and no longer provides meaningful data. For those that dont know, enjoy the discovery.
 
Arjen said:
Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't.

- Mark Twain
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The Murphy law readily agree with that statement. And her sister - the swiss cheese holes, whatever its true name.
 
TMA1 said:
edwest3 said:
Darn. My Outrage Meter is in the shop and without it, I have no idea how I should react. I'll have to... gasp... ignore ALL this nonsense and just live my life as I have before the internet.
Click to expand...

After discovering the Dutroux affair many years ago my outrage meter has been thoroughly detuned and no longer provides meaningful data. For those that dont know, enjoy the discovery.
Click to expand...

Are you from Belgium ? If you mean that Dutroux, I can only agree with you (shudders, then vomits loudly).

Now, from the other side of the border (France) I'd suggest you try Outreaux and its scandal. That won't help you broken outrage meter, I fear.

Sweet geez. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outreau_trial

You know, the scandal were one of the supposed "experts" told the audience at the trial "Yeah, sure, I'm paid like a cleaning lady, so no surprise my psychological assessments of the kids and their parents, could have been done by a cleaning lady." Sick son of a bitch, such cynism.

But not worse than the biggest bastard in the whole case - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabrice_Burgaud

To spoof Charles Chuck McGill "And he got to be a judge ? what a sick joke !"

Or that other judge that did such a good job, in the Little Gregory case "Le juge Jean Pierre: le petit juge".
en.wikipedia.org

Murder of Grégory Villemin - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

The Gendarmes were on the brink of finding the asshole that had thrown that poor kid in a cold river. They were making good strides. But Juge Jean Pierre (quickly followed by the media, and then half of France 50 million people) accuses the mother instead. With zero proof.

And leak confidential information to the vultures, hyena journalists (we have our own Ruppert Murdoch in France, unfortunately - septic tank journalists, and I'm unfair with human faeces there).

One of the vulture journalist then tell the parents about the Gendarmes suspicions and suspect - straight from the judge. The enraged father then gun down his stepbrother dead, in front of the cameras. The man dead that day was the very main suspect the gendarmes were trying to build a case against. Father takes 8 years in jail for murder. Mother was pregnant, and lose a second kid in a row - of shock.

And the main suspect is dead and buried, so he will never talk. Nor will talk any of his relatives - degenerated pond scum they are, notably the grandmother and grandfather. Better dead than talk - such human filth.

End result: almost 40 years later, nobody knows who killed that poor kid.
 
Last edited:
Orionblamblam said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1636380856746139650
View: https://twitter.com/nickfloats/status/1636380856746139650
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Yes.

Seriously, if people cannot tell the difference between a 3-D rendered image and real solid object then I'm sorry but they should have gone to Specsavers. (that's a UK in-joke most of our US members won't get)

Until AI masters the tonality and surface reflections of visible light off physical atom-based structures then there will always be a way to detect them.
 
There's a YouTube channel that features live performances of 19th & early 20th Century piano music written for the 'household' market that disappeared with the rise of Radio. The creator has started using AI generated images and I commented on one image (attached) that it was good enough to inspire someone to write a story using it as the basis, the reply given made it clear that even with the ease of generating images, there still needs to be great care in selecting the right ones, I know of one particular thumbnail that got changed because the initial one used contained some quite grotesque human faces.
 

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Last edited:
Archibald said:
TMA1 said:
edwest3 said:
Darn. My Outrage Meter is in the shop and without it, I have no idea how I should react. I'll have to... gasp... ignore ALL this nonsense and just live my life as I have before the internet.
Click to expand...

After discovering the Dutroux affair many years ago my outrage meter has been thoroughly detuned and no longer provides meaningful data. For those that dont know, enjoy the discovery.
Click to expand...

Are you from Belgium ? If you mean that Dutroux, I can only agree with you (shudders, then vomits loudly).

Now, from the other side of the border (France) I'd suggest you try Outreaux and its scandal. That won't help you broken outrage meter, I fear.

Sweet geez. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outreau_trial

You know, the scandal were one of the supposed "experts" told the audience at the trial "Yeah, sure, I'm paid like a cleaning lady, so no surprise my psychological assessments of the kids and their parents, could have been done by a cleaning lady." Sick son of a bitch, such cynism.

But not worse than the biggest bastard in the whole case - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabrice_Burgaud

To spoof Charles Chuck McGill "And he got to be a judge ? what a sick joke !"

Or that other judge that did such a good job, in the Little Gregory case "Le juge Jean Pierre: le petit juge".
en.wikipedia.org

Murder of Grégory Villemin - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

The Gendarmes were on the brink of finding the asshole that had thrown that poor kid in a cold river. They were making good strides. But Juge Jean Pierre (quickly followed by the media, and then half of France 50 million people) accuses the mother instead. With zero proof.

And leak confidential information to the vultures, hyena journalists (we have our own Ruppert Murdoch in France, unfortunately - septic tank journalists, and I'm unfair with human faeces there).

One of the vulture journalist then tell the parents about the Gendarmes suspicions and suspect - straight from the judge. The enraged father then gun down his stepbrother dead, in front of the cameras. The man dead that day was the very main suspect the gendarmes were trying to build a case against. Father takes 8 years in jail for murder. Mother was pregnant, and lose a second kid in a row - of shock.

And the main suspect is dead and buried, so he will never talk. Nor will talk any of his relatives - degenerated pond scum they are, notably the grandmother and grandfather. Better dead than talk - such human filth.

End result: almost 40 years later, nobody knows who killed that poor kid.
Click to expand...

Whoa thanks for some info I have not heard of and links as well. No I'm not from the region. I'm from Washington state! I discovered the Dutroux affair from another similar scandal here in Nebraska. Thr Dutroux affair is often alluded to in the context. I've talked to some Belgian folks online about it all and what blew my mind was how massive it got, how deep it's roots were in Belgian society and how deeply it impacted the people.

Ever heard of the site ISGP studies?

Here is an article that goes down the Dutroux affair rabbithole. It is very bleak and nightmarish reading. I've gone through many of his sources. Many are good but a couple were no longer available at the time I found his site and read the article. So I cannot corroborate everything. Pretty legit tho. Here is the link. Again I warn it is dark stuff and pretty hard to fathom.



Did you hear from anyone about the massive protests that happened as a result of all this? The Belgian people really fought back because of it. It is one bright spot in all the dark. Anyways seriously thanks for the links and info.
 
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Who writes this stuff? The marketing department at OpenAI? I am so unimpressed with ChatGPT which will turn everything upside down. It's a waste of time, like Twitter, a game. 'Ooh, look! ChatGPT wrote me a story.' That's nice.

Keep in mind that Microsoft has invested billions so a monetized version is next. It will be heavily marketed - indispensable. I've got a few marketing slogans:

Want to get rid of those pesky employees, buy ChatGPT Pro.

You don't need a human brain to write for your business, buy ChatGPT Pro.
 
BAROBA said:
If the haircolor and clothes is a close match to the background of the actor, then it can fool a lot of people. With high contrast backgrounds or shadows behind the actor, not so much...
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Give it time. Compare these results - which are at best dubiously convincing - to the equivalent real-time deep fakes from, say, the late 1990's.
 
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