Agile F-16 Falcon

KJ_Lesnick

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
1,045
Reaction score
46
How would this have affected the F-16's top-speed, and high-speed maneuverability?


Kendra Lesnick
 

sferrin

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Messages
14,614
Reaction score
3,537
KJ_Lesnick said:
How would this have affected the F-16's top-speed, and high-speed maneuverability?


Kendra Lesnick

A better place to ask would be F-16.net.
 

Just call me Ray

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
674
Reaction score
18
At the very least it would've required more power at speed based on larger wing = more lift = more drag
 

overscan (PaulMM)

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
13,598
Reaction score
7,602
Later F-16 was short on wing area and thrust due to weight growth. Higher thrust engines improved the T/W ratio but the wing loading could only be addressed with a new wing. I imagine it was decided it was unneccessary as F-15 was primary A/A asset while F-16 is primarily A/S tasked.
 

LowObservable

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
2,226
Reaction score
248
Agile Falcon was a response to 1987? directive from OSD to Mcs and GD, to look at improvements to F-16 and F-18. Mainly for export, intended to head off anticipated competition from Typhoon and Rafale, given that F-22 was not considered exportable. It was the start of the process that led to the Super Hornet, but the GD design never went anywhere. Nobody was in the market at the time, and the payoff compared with the investment was not that great. Not long after that, GD's future studies shifted to the delta-wing Falcon 21, which begat F-16U and which offered much more improvement, particularly in air-to-ground.
 

starviking

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2006
Messages
1,236
Reaction score
407
sferrin said:
KJ_Lesnick said:
How would this have affected the F-16's top-speed, and high-speed maneuverability?


Kendra Lesnick

A better place to ask would be F-16.net.

Or even compare a F-16 with the Mitsubishi F-2 - it seems very similar in design to the Agile Falcon, having a 25% wing area increase over the F-16.

Starviking
 

overscan (PaulMM)

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
13,598
Reaction score
7,602
Sources:
GDFW This Week, Volume 1, Number 5, July 31, 1987
GDFW This Week, Volume 2, Number 29, July 22, 1988
Division Log, Number 7170, July 15, 1988

via https://texashistory.unt.edu
 

Attachments

  • metapth1091945_xl_0001.jpg
    metapth1091945_xl_0001.jpg
    324.4 KB · Views: 223
  • metapth1091945_xl_0002.jpg
    metapth1091945_xl_0002.jpg
    452.3 KB · Views: 159
  • metapth1092173_xl_0001.jpg
    metapth1092173_xl_0001.jpg
    428.9 KB · Views: 141
  • metapth1149022_xl_supervisory-1988-07-15_01.jpg
    metapth1149022_xl_supervisory-1988-07-15_01.jpg
    400.1 KB · Views: 138

overscan (PaulMM)

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
13,598
Reaction score
7,602
There's a somewhat dry thesis on the Agile Falcon with some interesting information in there.


The U.S. cancelled the Agile Falcon program by deciding not to fund the program past the predevelopment phase. The predevelopment of the Derivative Aircraft Program (Agile Falcon) concludes in December 1989. Paper studies including wind tunnel test data of the proposed configuration will be delivered to the USAF. However, the Mid-Life 45 Update program will continue with 75% of the kits procured intended for the EPGs with delivery beginning in 1996. During Agile Falcon negotiations with EPGs, the U.S. turned down proposals from Korea, Turkey, and Israel to participate in the Agile Falcon codevelopment program (39:1). Defense News reported on 5 June 1989 that DOD is interested in bringing the Agile Falcon back to life sometime in the future under the Japanese/U.S. FSX codevelopment program. The two aircraft designs are .very similar with both incorporating a large wing. It is possible an Agile Falcon/FSX hybrid could become the Block 80 F-16 configuration.
 

F-2

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
May 23, 2020
Messages
73
Reaction score
137
From Troubled partnership
 

Attachments

  • D77E5875-23DF-40A5-86A8-53EEB4FE5AD7.png
    D77E5875-23DF-40A5-86A8-53EEB4FE5AD7.png
    369.3 KB · Views: 105
  • E6F4011F-44AE-48DD-8213-054DBC849030.png
    E6F4011F-44AE-48DD-8213-054DBC849030.png
    361.3 KB · Views: 89
  • 1B524898-BA85-4760-A419-14429CD2C3DF.png
    1B524898-BA85-4760-A419-14429CD2C3DF.png
    364.8 KB · Views: 126

isayyo2

Lurker alert
Joined
Nov 24, 2011
Messages
502
Reaction score
689
So was the Agile Falcon/ MSIP IV program an actual retrofit for existing A/B models like the MLU program? Or was it a ploy for the European partners to buy new aircraft?
 

F-2

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
May 23, 2020
Messages
73
Reaction score
137
So was the Agile Falcon/ MSIP IV program an actual retrofit for existing A/B models like the MLU program? Or was it a ploy for the European partners to buy new aircraft?
Most of what I’ve read imply it would have been both. Upgrade for existing Vipers and also a new standard for sale.
 

LMFS

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Mar 19, 2019
Messages
327
Reaction score
516
That increased wing design with an up to date engine would be a very nice option for the cheap 4.5G plane USAF talked about, if there was any reality to that story.
 

RAP

ACCESS: Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2008
Messages
701
Reaction score
501
F-16 Agile Falcon model from GD, 1/40 scale.
 

Attachments

  • thumbnail_20210509_165206.jpg
    thumbnail_20210509_165206.jpg
    205 KB · Views: 110
  • thumbnail_20210509_165247.jpg
    thumbnail_20210509_165247.jpg
    176.8 KB · Views: 105
  • thumbnail_20210509_165253.jpg
    thumbnail_20210509_165253.jpg
    116.2 KB · Views: 84
  • thumbnail_20210509_165215.jpg
    thumbnail_20210509_165215.jpg
    168.5 KB · Views: 109

isayyo2

Lurker alert
Joined
Nov 24, 2011
Messages
502
Reaction score
689
Geez @RAP and @F-2 has got me feeling down. A big-wing AESA F-16 by the mid 90s? Plus a further growth option with the ATF's engine, such a lost opportunity.
 

Keyboard Commando

Haunebu Pilot
Joined
Aug 17, 2015
Messages
38
Reaction score
39
How would a notional big-wing ATF engined F-16 compare performance wise to later studies with full deltas like the Falcon-21 with a big F-22 style wing?
 

Similar threads

Top