3D printing

PlanesPictures

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
1,025
Reaction score
829
Third test bed is near to close. I'm surprised how much small errors is in my older models. For rendering it was not problem but now I have to do only closed volumes. Next favorites are prepared
 

Attachments

  • 3D_printing_01.jpg
    3D_printing_01.jpg
    67.7 KB · Views: 1,051

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
8,078
Reaction score
4,625
Oh you get 3D printer! B)
I used to watch small 3D model of Pressurized water reactor steam generator.
 

PlanesPictures

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
1,025
Reaction score
829
More here:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,22058.0.html
 

PlanesPictures

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
1,025
Reaction score
829
First "hot" 3D-model
 

Attachments

  • 3D_printing_new_model.jpg
    3D_printing_new_model.jpg
    57.8 KB · Views: 860

c460

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
395
Reaction score
51
Hi,
Very beautiful model, is it the Vickers 559 ?
Adrien
 

PlanesPictures

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
1,025
Reaction score
829
Of course, I like these heavy beauties (length 20.8 m and what about Northrop N-144 Lenght: 35,55 m - more as B-58B).
 

PlanesPictures

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
1,025
Reaction score
829
In theory no problem. I will resize model 1.5x. What I will need to keep in mind is working box of 3D printer (near to 20x20x30 cm). Without rebuilding of model (thickenes 1 mm will be 1.5 mm) printed volume will be 2.25 of original volume and final price will be no less, too. But I want to do really unique collections. After first real printing on our concrete printer and notes of beta-tester we will produce next prepared models.
 

sferrin

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Messages
15,521
Reaction score
5,116
PlanesPictures said:
Of course, I like these heavy beauties (length 20.8 m and what about Northrop N-144 Lenght: 35,55 m - more as B-58B).
The N-167 is one of my favorites. 4 J-79s (like the B-58).
 

PlanesPictures

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
1,025
Reaction score
829
N-167 has already its own directory. N-176 is ready
 

Attachments

  • N-167 3D printing.jpg
    N-167 3D printing.jpg
    93.8 KB · Views: 806
  • Northrop N-176_sc3.jpg
    Northrop N-176_sc3.jpg
    22.6 KB · Views: 811

GTX

All hail the God of Frustration!!!
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2006
Messages
4,882
Reaction score
4,232
Website
beyondthesprues.com
I am really keen to see examples of the standard you hope to be printing at for these models. Do you have any photos you can share?
 

GTX

All hail the God of Frustration!!!
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2006
Messages
4,882
Reaction score
4,232
Website
beyondthesprues.com
I am interested in the resolution and quality of the parts. For example, will they be equivalent to those at click2detail?
 

Orionblamblam

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Messages
9,882
Reaction score
5,356
Website
www.aerospaceprojectsreview.com
Are these 3D prints going to be one-offs? Or are you going to turn them into kits that people can buy?

If the latter, you're better off making one print, doing a lot of cleanup to the parts, then having the parts cast in resin. For more than a dozen or so kits, that's cheaper... and the quality is also a lot better. As great as 3D printing is to make master parts, it's still not yet to where you can sell *quality* kits straight from the printer. Even the best printers have regrettable surface finishes.
 

PlanesPictures

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
1,025
Reaction score
829
More on used printer here: http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,22058.0.html


We suppose to sold them "äs is". I hope our plus will be good shape. Details will be in hand of modellers. Printed models will be only more or less known projects (CL-1000, Archangel, Kingfish, M-25, Tu-135) and only a few of real funs will like them.


We will start with test printing on end of August, 2014.
 

tiikki

Why I really should change my personal text?
Joined
Jan 22, 2013
Messages
65
Reaction score
3
Website
tiikki.blogspot.com
Orionblamblam said:
Are these 3D prints going to be one-offs? Or are you going to turn them into kits that people can buy?

If the latter, you're better off making one print, doing a lot of cleanup to the parts, then having the parts cast in resin. For more than a dozen or so kits, that's cheaper... and the quality is also a lot better. As great as 3D printing is to make master parts, it's still not yet to where you can sell *quality* kits straight from the printer. Even the best printers have regrettable surface finishes.

I would disagree with that surface finish comment. The high end industrial models (price tag starting around 100 000€ or 135 000 USD) produce parts comparable to injection molding (I know that there are not all injection molding products are same quality). We are not talking about printers costing few thousands. But we shall see when the printing starts :)

The model kits will be a side project for my 3D-printing business in order to keep expensive machinery utilization rate as high as possible. My profits on this will be less than on printing for hire business, but smaller profit is better than no profit at all when machinery is idle. In printing for hire the most of the price comes from the cost of the printer, not from the material costs.
Short calculation: the loan has to be paid in 4 years, there are 12 months in each and each month has 4 weeks with 5 working days and each day has 8 business hours, so the machine has around 8000 hours to make at minimum 100 000€ in order to pay back the loan. So at minimum and full business hour usage (unrealistic) 12.5€/hour +depreciation+material+interest+rent+electricity+salaries+profit. With everything else, except material, factored in with realistic usage hours the hourly rate for the machine has to be above 100€. And printing is slow process... (So slow, that most of printer manufactures don't usually quote the speed of their machines in their public material.) In this side project I can do it lot cheaper as long as it doesn't hurt my main business.

In the case of resin, the material costs of printing are higher (I'd estimate it to be around order of magnitude on small business scale purchases), but amount of labor is lot less. In printing I can just push the button on printer at evening when I'm leaving and the printer prints the parts during night and on morning I collect them and put them in the washer and then some time later move them to drier.


Tuomo
 

PlanesPictures

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
1,025
Reaction score
829
first 3D models are printed out. So lets go totally rebuild them
 

Attachments

  • first3d.jpg
    first3d.jpg
    41 KB · Views: 814

Hobbes

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 9, 2008
Messages
1,156
Reaction score
806
tiikki said:
Orionblamblam said:
Are these 3D prints going to be one-offs? Or are you going to turn them into kits that people can buy?

If the latter, you're better off making one print, doing a lot of cleanup to the parts, then having the parts cast in resin. For more than a dozen or so kits, that's cheaper... and the quality is also a lot better. As great as 3D printing is to make master parts, it's still not yet to where you can sell *quality* kits straight from the printer. Even the best printers have regrettable surface finishes.

I would disagree with that surface finish comment. The high end industrial models (price tag starting around 100 000€ or 135 000 USD) produce parts comparable to injection molding (I know that there are not all injection molding products are same quality). We are not talking about printers costing few thousands. But we shall see when the printing starts :)

Interesting. I've been using Shapeways to print some parts, and the prints I've received in their highest-resolution material (which they call FUD) are definitely not as smooth as an injection moulded model. I always have to do a bit of sanding to get a smooth finish.
 

PlanesPictures

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
1,025
Reaction score
829
"are definitely not as smooth as an injection moulded model" - it will be payment for their unique
 

tiikki

Why I really should change my personal text?
Joined
Jan 22, 2013
Messages
65
Reaction score
3
Website
tiikki.blogspot.com
Hobbes said:
Interesting. I've been using Shapeways to print some parts, and the prints I've received in their highest-resolution material (which they call FUD) are definitely not as smooth as an injection moulded model. I always have to do a bit of sanding to get a smooth finish.

There are quality differences in injection moulding too :)
 

GTX

All hail the God of Frustration!!!
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2006
Messages
4,882
Reaction score
4,232
Website
beyondthesprues.com
Ho are you going with this and more importantly, when might there be kits available to purchase?
 

tiikki

Why I really should change my personal text?
Joined
Jan 22, 2013
Messages
65
Reaction score
3
Website
tiikki.blogspot.com
PlanesPictures said:
first 3D models are printed out. So lets go totally rebuild them
GTX said:
Ho are you going with this and more importantly, when might there be kits available to purchase?

The first iteration is shown here, I'm waiting CAD-files for the second iteration.
There are multiple things to change for easier handling in printing, which I want to be changed. For example multiple parts are smaller than support net in cleaning machines, adding some sprue to them would make my work as a printer a lot easier (and if there are multiple models printing at the same time it makes it easier to separate parts from different models). Another example is support material, while it is a bit cheaper than the actual matter cleaning it from small cavities is PITA and can easily add a day in production time (the whiteness in wings are example of some leftover support material).
 

PlanesPictures

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
1,025
Reaction score
829
we suppose scales 1/72 and 1/48 and unique designs resp. all design family (Archangel, Fish, Kingfish. Vickers VA559, Avro 730 ). But I solve now problem with printing sharp edges on wings. When we will know all rules then it will be very fast
 

Attachments

  • sharp edge.jpg
    sharp edge.jpg
    8.6 KB · Views: 433

PlanesPictures

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
1,025
Reaction score
829
Last iteration of Saab 1418. Ready for printing
 

Attachments

  • Saab 1418 3Dprint.jpg
    Saab 1418 3Dprint.jpg
    62.8 KB · Views: 468

athpilot

Fly me to the moon...
Joined
Nov 18, 2012
Messages
342
Reaction score
238
Good luck for printing! I hope it works as you wish (especially the edges ;). Please let us know about the results.

Greetings
Athpilot
 

tiikki

Why I really should change my personal text?
Joined
Jan 22, 2013
Messages
65
Reaction score
3
Website
tiikki.blogspot.com
At the moment we are cursing as the 60k€ printer is waiting for warranty service from the manufacturer... The warranty service was notified about 3 weeks ago and practically no support...
 

PlanesPictures

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
1,025
Reaction score
829
VA-559 models in scale 1:72 and 1:48. In background is 3D printer working box. I will not totally rebuild model in scale 1:48 but I will only lighen some main parts.
 

Attachments

  • VA-559 3D models.jpg
    VA-559 3D models.jpg
    75.2 KB · Views: 772

PlanesPictures

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
1,025
Reaction score
829
I suppose 6 months. We need to check stability of material (on my printed Saab project rudder is little twisted, maybe by transport). I will try other printer and material, too in case of problems. Now I wait for printing of improved Saab model. If it will be OK from our point of view we will ask some modellers to build final kit. Now I'm working on 3D models of Lockheed A-1 Archangel, Convair Kingfish, Boeing B818, Avro 730 and Myasistchew M-25-1 and -2. All in scale 1/72. Hot candidate was Northrop N-176, too but I used wrong scanned sources and heavy rebuild will be needed.
 

PlanesPictures

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
1,025
Reaction score
829
yes, they are too crazy to must have it
 

Attachments

  • M25-01_video_01d.jpg
    M25-01_video_01d.jpg
    78.3 KB · Views: 685

tiikki

Why I really should change my personal text?
Joined
Jan 22, 2013
Messages
65
Reaction score
3
Website
tiikki.blogspot.com
PlanesPictures said:
I suppose 6 months. We need to check stability of material (on my printed Saab project rudder is little twisted, maybe by transport). I will try other printer and material, too in case of problems. Now I wait for printing of improved Saab model. If it will be OK from our point of view we will ask some modellers to build final kit. Now I'm working on 3D models of Lockheed A-1 Archangel, Convair Kingfish, Boeing B818, Avro 730 and Myasistchew M-25-1 and -2. All in scale 1/72. Hot candidate was Northrop N-176, too but I used wrong scanned sources and heavy rebuild will be needed.

I'm hoping faster, but in my end we have been cursing 3D System as my few months old printer is still waiting for replacement part (it has been offline for more than month.) Now with the holiday season coming all bets are off about repairing the machine.
 

athpilot

Fly me to the moon...
Joined
Nov 18, 2012
Messages
342
Reaction score
238
offtopic but pretty cool and beautiful. The "smallest creation of the human form in history" (oct. 2014) printed in 3d by artist Jonty Hurwitz. Amazing what this technique feature is able to make! Hmm will there be a nanoscale Myasishchev? Just kidding... ;D
http://www.jontyhurwitz.com/nano/
 

Attachments

  • Trust-hair-full-heavenly-01.jpg
    Trust-hair-full-heavenly-01.jpg
    276.8 KB · Views: 548
  • Trust-needle-full-heavenly-01.jpg
    Trust-needle-full-heavenly-01.jpg
    150.3 KB · Views: 526

PlanesPictures

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
1,025
Reaction score
829
last prints. Next rebuild is needed
 

Attachments

  • IMG_2472_print.jpg
    IMG_2472_print.jpg
    796.8 KB · Views: 437
  • IMG_2475_print.jpg
    IMG_2475_print.jpg
    757.2 KB · Views: 166

Similar threads

Top