3D printing

[PlanesPictures]

Third test bed is near to close. I'm surprised how much small errors is in my older models. For rendering it was not problem but now I have to do only closed volumes. Next favorites are prepared

 

[blackkite]

Oh you get 3D printer! B)
I used to watch small 3D model of Pressurized water reactor steam generator.

 

[PlanesPictures]

More here:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,22058.0.html

 

[PlanesPictures]

First "hot" 3D-model

 

[c460]

Hi,
Very beautiful model, is it the Vickers 559 ?
Adrien

 

[PlanesPictures]

Of course, I like these heavy beauties (length 20.8 m and what about Northrop N-144 Lenght: 35,55 m - more as B-58B).

 

[GTX]

Another I would love to see in 1/48

 

[PlanesPictures]

In theory no problem. I will resize model 1.5x. What I will need to keep in mind is working box of 3D printer (near to 20x20x30 cm). Without rebuilding of model (thickenes 1 mm will be 1.5 mm) printed volume will be 2.25 of original volume and final price will be no less, too. But I want to do really unique collections. After first real printing on our concrete printer and notes of beta-tester we will produce next prepared models.

 

[sferrin]

Of course, I like these heavy beauties (length 20.8 m and what about Northrop N-144 Lenght: 35,55 m - more as B-58B).

The N-167 is one of my favorites. 4 J-79s (like the B-58).

 

[PlanesPictures]

N-167 has already its own directory. N-176 is ready

 

[sferrin]

Sweet! Looking forward to it.

 

[GTX]

I am really keen to see examples of the standard you hope to be printing at for these models. Do you have any photos you can share?

 

[PlanesPictures]

I'm sorry I did not understand

 

[GTX]

I am interested in the resolution and quality of the parts. For example, will they be equivalent to those at click2detail?

 

[Orionblamblam]

Are these 3D prints going to be one-offs? Or are you going to turn them into kits that people can buy?

If the latter, you're better off making one print, doing a lot of cleanup to the parts, then having the parts cast in resin. For more than a dozen or so kits, that's cheaper... and the quality is also a lot better. As great as 3D printing is to make master parts, it's still not yet to where you can sell *quality* kits straight from the printer. Even the best printers have regrettable surface finishes.

 

[PlanesPictures]

More on used printer here: http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,22058.0.html


We suppose to sold them "äs is". I hope our plus will be good shape. Details will be in hand of modellers. Printed models will be only more or less known projects (CL-1000, Archangel, Kingfish, M-25, Tu-135) and only a few of real funs will like them.


We will start with test printing on end of August, 2014.

 

[sferrin]

First "hot" 3D-model

What modeller do you use?

 

[PlanesPictures]

I use Rhinoceros

 

[tiikki]

Are these 3D prints going to be one-offs? Or are you going to turn them into kits that people can buy?

If the latter, you're better off making one print, doing a lot of cleanup to the parts, then having the parts cast in resin. For more than a dozen or so kits, that's cheaper... and the quality is also a lot better. As great as 3D printing is to make master parts, it's still not yet to where you can sell *quality* kits straight from the printer. Even the best printers have regrettable surface finishes.

I would disagree with that surface finish comment. The high end industrial models (price tag starting around 100 000€ or 135 000 USD) produce parts comparable to injection molding (I know that there are not all injection molding products are same quality). We are not talking about printers costing few thousands. But we shall see when the printing starts

The model kits will be a side project for my 3D-printing business in order to keep expensive machinery utilization rate as high as possible. My profits on this will be less than on printing for hire business, but smaller profit is better than no profit at all when machinery is idle. In printing for hire the most of the price comes from the cost of the printer, not from the material costs.
Short calculation: the loan has to be paid in 4 years, there are 12 months in each and each month has 4 weeks with 5 working days and each day has 8 business hours, so the machine has around 8000 hours to make at minimum 100 000€ in order to pay back the loan. So at minimum and full business hour usage (unrealistic) 12.5€/hour +depreciation+material+interest+rent+electricity+salaries+profit. With everything else, except material, factored in with realistic usage hours the hourly rate for the machine has to be above 100€. And printing is slow process... (So slow, that most of printer manufactures don't usually quote the speed of their machines in their public material.) In this side project I can do it lot cheaper as long as it doesn't hurt my main business.

In the case of resin, the material costs of printing are higher (I'd estimate it to be around order of magnitude on small business scale purchases), but amount of labor is lot less. In printing I can just push the button on printer at evening when I'm leaving and the printer prints the parts during night and on morning I collect them and put them in the washer and then some time later move them to drier.


Tuomo

 

[PlanesPictures]

first 3D models are printed out. So lets go totally rebuild them

 

[Hobbes]

Are these 3D prints going to be one-offs? Or are you going to turn them into kits that people can buy?

If the latter, you're better off making one print, doing a lot of cleanup to the parts, then having the parts cast in resin. For more than a dozen or so kits, that's cheaper... and the quality is also a lot better. As great as 3D printing is to make master parts, it's still not yet to where you can sell *quality* kits straight from the printer. Even the best printers have regrettable surface finishes.

I would disagree with that surface finish comment. The high end industrial models (price tag starting around 100 000€ or 135 000 USD) produce parts comparable to injection molding (I know that there are not all injection molding products are same quality). We are not talking about printers costing few thousands. But we shall see when the printing starts

Interesting. I've been using Shapeways to print some parts, and the prints I've received in their highest-resolution material (which they call FUD) are definitely not as smooth as an injection moulded model. I always have to do a bit of sanding to get a smooth finish.

 

[PlanesPictures]

"are definitely not as smooth as an injection moulded model" - it will be payment for their unique

 

[tiikki]

Interesting. I've been using Shapeways to print some parts, and the prints I've received in their highest-resolution material (which they call FUD) are definitely not as smooth as an injection moulded model. I always have to do a bit of sanding to get a smooth finish.

There are quality differences in injection moulding too

 

[GTX]

Ho are you going with this and more importantly, when might there be kits available to purchase?

 

[tiikki]

first 3D models are printed out. So lets go totally rebuild them

Ho are you going with this and more importantly, when might there be kits available to purchase?

The first iteration is shown here, I'm waiting CAD-files for the second iteration.
There are multiple things to change for easier handling in printing, which I want to be changed. For example multiple parts are smaller than support net in cleaning machines, adding some sprue to them would make my work as a printer a lot easier (and if there are multiple models printing at the same time it makes it easier to separate parts from different models). Another example is support material, while it is a bit cheaper than the actual matter cleaning it from small cavities is PITA and can easily add a day in production time (the whiteness in wings are example of some leftover support material).

 

[GTX]

What designs/scales?

 

[PlanesPictures]

we suppose scales 1/72 and 1/48 and unique designs resp. all design family (Archangel, Fish, Kingfish. Vickers VA559, Avro 730 ). But I solve now problem with printing sharp edges on wings. When we will know all rules then it will be very fast

 

[PlanesPictures]

Last iteration of Saab 1418. Ready for printing

 

[PlanesPictures]

Saab Projects 14nn

 

[athpilot]

Good luck for printing! I hope it works as you wish (especially the edges . Please let us know about the results.

Greetings
Athpilot

 

[tiikki]

At the moment we are cursing as the 60k€ printer is waiting for warranty service from the manufacturer... The warranty service was notified about 3 weeks ago and practically no support...

 

[athpilot]

...ooh what a mess

 

[PlanesPictures]

VA-559 models in scale 1:72 and 1:48. In background is 3D printer working box. I will not totally rebuild model in scale 1:48 but I will only lighen some main parts.

 

[GTX]

When will these be available to acquire?

 

[PlanesPictures]

I suppose 6 months. We need to check stability of material (on my printed Saab project rudder is little twisted, maybe by transport). I will try other printer and material, too in case of problems. Now I wait for printing of improved Saab model. If it will be OK from our point of view we will ask some modellers to build final kit. Now I'm working on 3D models of Lockheed A-1 Archangel, Convair Kingfish, Boeing B818, Avro 730 and Myasistchew M-25-1 and -2. All in scale 1/72. Hot candidate was Northrop N-176, too but I used wrong scanned sources and heavy rebuild will be needed.

 

[athpilot]

... a Myasistchew M-25-1 and -2 in 1/72... wanna have!

 

[PlanesPictures]

yes, they are too crazy to must have it

 

[tiikki]

I suppose 6 months. We need to check stability of material (on my printed Saab project rudder is little twisted, maybe by transport). I will try other printer and material, too in case of problems. Now I wait for printing of improved Saab model. If it will be OK from our point of view we will ask some modellers to build final kit. Now I'm working on 3D models of Lockheed A-1 Archangel, Convair Kingfish, Boeing B818, Avro 730 and Myasistchew M-25-1 and -2. All in scale 1/72. Hot candidate was Northrop N-176, too but I used wrong scanned sources and heavy rebuild will be needed.

I'm hoping faster, but in my end we have been cursing 3D System as my few months old printer is still waiting for replacement part (it has been offline for more than month.) Now with the holiday season coming all bets are off about repairing the machine.

 

[athpilot]

offtopic but pretty cool and beautiful. The "smallest creation of the human form in history" (oct. 2014) printed in 3d by artist Jonty Hurwitz. Amazing what this technique feature is able to make! Hmm will there be a nanoscale Myasishchev? Just kidding... ;D
http://www.jontyhurwitz.com/nano/

 

[PlanesPictures]

last prints. Next rebuild is needed