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1973 requirement SOR 206 : AWACS competitors

Triton

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alertken

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Terry/#35: DC-8/EW. I don't suppose it was in any way naughty. 717 had, what 2, 3 years' lead-in advantage over DC-8/20, and had the benefit of big structure/vendor items volume production (KC-97, B-47, current B-52). DC-8 offered no especial plus-points to offset the inventory pain of duplication. So long as Boeing could comply with delivery schedules sought for each Production Lot, there would be no point in DoD splitting their order. UK kept on doing so (3xV-Bombers) to spread risk of product failure and to accelerate delivery of capability.
 

Triton

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Boeing AWACS prototype model found on eBay.

URL: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=180662688321+&si=oiDWiDwmr1ZURrDuNqTZFgPjCvU%253D&viewitem=&clk_rvr_id=241682765618

Seller's description:
Here is an exceedingly rare prototype version of the venerable Boeing AWACS. Before settling on the 707 aircraft as the basis for the design, Boeing first developed the proposal on a new design. This is that aircraft version. Unlike the 707, which has 4 engines in as many pods, this aircraft has 8 engines in 4 pods. The pods are very similar in appearance to the engine mounts of the legendary B-52. This has normal shelf wear from having been around so long, but no decal loss. No repairs or damage, but a little bit of paint cracking on some of the more slender parts of the engine supports. There are no engines in the pods, which appear to have been intended to be empty. Wingspan is 11.75" almost exactly, and the model is fairly heavy for its size. I will be uploading more photos very shortly...THANKS
 

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Triton

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It looks like a Boeing 707 airframe to me. Is this an early AWACS proposal powered by eight General Electric TF34 engines?
 

Nico

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Hi all,
about the McDonnell-Douglas DC-8-62 submission to the AWACS contest, I found this photograph of early 1970, depicting a section of a wooden full scale mock-up and a windtunnel model, interesting as looking at the model there are some peoples involved in the programme. As we can read in the 'Aviation Week' caption, they are (from right): Wellwood E. Beall (Douglas Aircraft Co. executive vice-president), Maj. Gen. Ernest A. Pinson (USAF Institute of Technology) and Howell L. Walker (vice-president Military Systems Division of Douglas Aircraft Co.)
Nico
 

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Mark Nankivil

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Greetings All -

Now, for something completely different....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1960s-McDonnell-DOUGLAS-AWACS-Collectible-PLAYING-CARDS-2-DECK-SET-/350498025748?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item519b4f7114

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 

Triton

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Model of Boeing AWACS concept with radome on the tail built by Bainbridge Manufacturing Inc., Bainbridge island, Washington state found on eBay.

URL:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Boeing-USAF-AWACS-707-display-model-Bainbridge-manf-/130623508813?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e69c4914d
 

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Triton

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Model of Boeing AWACS concept by Bainbridge Manufacturing found on eBay.

URL:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Early-Boeing-707-AWACS-Prototype-Desk-Model-Bainbridge-Mfg-Topping-/120861324007?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c23e572e7
 

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Mark Nankivil

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Hi All -

The early proposal with the rotodome mounted on a swept forward vertical fin:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Early-Boeing-707-AWACS-Prototype-Desk-Model-Bainbridge-Mfg-Topping-/120861324007?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c23e572e7

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 

Triton

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Pictures of the model can be found here:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,14522.0.html
 

CJGibson

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Evening all,

The attached was described to me as an "Boeing AWACS cutaway model".

Despite much digging, I have never seen a proposal for an AWACS airframe with a ventral radome, so what is this?

Discuss...

Chris
 

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Hobbes

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Odd seating arrrangement, with the 3 tables in the back. Maybe some sort of command post?
 

royabulgaf

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What's the date on the model? Before communication satellites were clearly the wave of the future, there were a number of proposals for flying radio transmitters.
 

Sea Skimmer

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As I recall for a period SAC actually did operate B-47s and later a smaller number of C-135 based radio relay planes to create an airborne network over CONUS.
 

CJGibson

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The bloke doesn't have a date or any other information on this.

The closest I've found is a RC-135D, 60-0362, Rivet Joint 2.

I have a Boeing cutaway drawing of the early AWACS with tail-mounted radome. It has one such table to the rear of the cabin and the consoles are arranged with the seats fore and aft.

Thanks

Chris
 

Triton

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Boeing AWACS concept model found on eBay.

Seller's description:
Model measures approx. 8" x 8 3/4" x 5" tall. This model has a wood base and is manufactured by Bainbridge Manufacturing Inc.
Source:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-USAF-Boeing-707-AWACS-Airplane-Desk-Model-/280945989296?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4169af96b0
 

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Archibald

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Reminds me of that Antonov Awacs - was it An-72 or -74 - with a similar inverted tail / radome...
 

Stargazer2006

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Archibald said:
Reminds me of that Antonov Awacs - was it An-72 or -74 - with a similar inverted tail / radome...
That was the An-71.
 

overscan

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Yep, US was first with that concept.
 

Triton

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AWACS Model Gets the Once-Over Air Force and Boeing Co. officials examined a model of the Airborne Warming and Control System.The contract for the system was awarded to The Boeing Co. last week and could involve more than $2 1 billion in gross business volume over the life of the program. Inspecting the model were, from left, Douglas . E. Graves, AWACS branch manager for The Boeing Co., Air Force Col. Albert M. Lehner, Boeing Co. plant representative and Col. Kendall Russell, director of the AWACS program office in Boston. The officials met in Seattle this week to review plans for the AWACS.
Source:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-Boeing-Air-Borne-Warning-Control-System-Model-Examined-Press-Photo-/200794276996?pt=Art_Photo_Images&hash=item2ec0458484
 

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Mark Nankivil

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Greetings All -

Courtesy of the Gerald Balzer Collection, Douglas D-990 AWACs proposal.

I also have a inboard profile drawing but need to scan that on an engineering copier/scanner first.

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 

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O

Overkiller

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Christmas comes early yet again on SPF! :D

That is fantastic, thank you for sharing! Now that is just the ticket for next year's Project Cancelled model display...hmmmmm!

Duncan
 
O

Overkiller

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Mark Nankivil said:
Thanks Duncan - here's some more details to get it right then!

Enjoy the Day! Mark
Oooooh! Now that will do the trick!

Thank you very much! Now I'm having a "rush of blood to the head" moment! Common sense says to get the Minicraft 1/144 scale DC-8, then the evil voices say to get the Aircraft in Miniature vacform 1/72 DC-8 kit...a mere snip at £173 plus postage....(Why am I hearing an Arnie-esque voice shouting "Go Aaaahn! DO IT!" ???) :eek:

Cheers

Duncan
 

circle-5

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Thank you Mark. Those D-990/D-991 drawings made my day.
 

CJGibson

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Duncan,

This is not the AEW type you want to model. You want the VC10 with the bollock. Or if you have a rotodome fetish, a BEWARE.

Chris
 
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Overkiller

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CJGibson said:
Duncan,

This is not the AEW type you want to model. You want the VC10 with the bollock. Or if you have a rotodome fetish, a BEWARE.

Chris
Au contraire mon amie...

This is DEFINITELY the AEW type I want to model, but fear not, I'm sure I can still squeeze something RAF/FAA into the plan for next year's display, right now I'm thinking HS125...or that Stratocruiser AEW in Battle Flight...

Cheers

Duncan
 

Pioneer

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pometablava said:
I agree with you Deino, it is a very beatiful art and this "madcap" layout it's my favourite too ;)

AWACS

June 1965
Boeing, Douglas and Lockheed invited to submit proposals.
Contracts awarded to all three.

July 1966
Lockheed eliminated. Boeing and Douglas moved on to the Concept Formulation Phase.

1967
Overland Radar Technology programme. Westinghouse and Hugues selected to compete for the AN/APY-1 radar.
(in January, Boeing's 707 proposal showed 4 engines and dorsal radome. Same position as in E-3 but radome dish is about 50% smaller and it was mounted on a dorsal fin)

December 1968
RFP issued from both contractors.
At this stage, Boeing proposal was based on the 707-320 with tail-mounted radome and four engines.

1969
Boeing proposal is identical to E-3 but it was powered by 8 engines instead of 4.
Engine selected was GE TF-34-GE-2 (40 kN) turbofans in order to match the required unrefuelled endurance specification.

July 1970
Boeing selected as prime contractor. McDonnell Douglas proposal was based in the DC-8.

The 707-320B test airframes retained their standard P&W JT3-D because endurance was not include at this phase. ( Program Brassboard )

In 1972, solicited unrefuelled endurance was reduced from 14 to 11 1/2 hours. In consequence, the E-3 was built with 4 P&W TF-33-PW100/101 engines (US and NATO ) and CFM-56-2A-2/3 (Saudi Arabia, UK and France)

Airframe designation is EC-137D.



Source:

AWACS Origins. Brassboard-Quest for the E-3 radar.
Ed Davis
Air Enthusiast Issue 119. September/October 2005.
Hay this is a great insight into the origins of what became the Boeing E-3 Sentry!!
But can anyone enlighten me as to what the USAF RFP was designated under - i.e. Weapons System ???? (WS-????)

Regards
Pioneer
 
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