1940's Japan A-Bomb Program Speculation

[TsrJoe]

http://tttabata.yolasite.com/radiation-physics-news-archive.php#sec14

Japanese Nuclear Bomb Document Returns to RIKEN

A 23-page document about a Japanese nuclear bomb plan was returned to the Institute of Physical and Chemical Research (RIKEN) outside Tokyo. At the close of World War II the document was secretly entrusted to a research assistant Kazuo Kuroda, who worked on the project with Yoshio Nishina of Klein-Nishina formula for Compton scattering. Kuroda immigrated to USA in 1949, eventually became a professor at the University of Arkansas and died in April 2001 (see "Paul Kuroda of Pre-Fermi Reactors" on this page). RIKEN personnel asked his widow to return the document, and it came back after 57 years, during which it was believed to have been destroyed. [Adapted from the "News Notes" column of Physics Today, Vol. 55, No. 11, 31 (2002)]

25 Dec 02

 

[TsrJoe]

the current, Febuary 2010 issue of 'Aeroplane' monthly has an article on the Japanese transpacific 'Fu-Go' balloon bomb which mentions as a sidebar a project utilising a larger German supplied balloon (the piece mentions this was part of the manifest of the infamous U-234) to carry a Japanese 'atomic weapon' !!? to further information is provided as to the weapons configuration or design




an interesting adjunct to the mention of the 'fire balloon' programme is the testing of a US. version carrying a biological agent ... definately a 'secret project' !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E77_balloon_bomb

 

[Hammer Birchgrove]

Interesting indeed!

 

[RobPrell]

I think if you read about the german nuke program, yes they did have one, and they spent more that the US did on the manhattan project. Read about U-234 it carried materials for more than two nukes and the US got it as it surrendered after the Germans surrendered. It was on its way to Japan. Japan did not make the nuke material, it came from Germany. The US pretends like the blocking of the heavy water from Norway stopped the german program. But they were using carbon(graphite) and had other heavy water sources. They built three nuke power plants. They wanted to put them in Uboats. One of them worked and was used to create weapons grade plutonium from U-238. The nuclear materials on the one Uboat that the US captured had more nuclear material than the US had from the entire Manhattan projects. There were 3 nuke detonations in Germany that the US knew of. The KGB has one of the film reels of one of the detonations later in the war. The Japanese program was basically setup to analyze what the germans gave them. German ruled the understanding of nuclear physics from the late twenties to the end of the War. Everyone was catching up to what they discovered. Our propaganda claims different though. It is believed that Japan detonated one of the german nukes in Korea. Two other subs sent to Japan were sunk. One off of africa, one off of Norway. The one off of norway is about to be raised. They will claim it contains "gold" or "mercury". The Mercury was mixed with the nuclear materials to stabilize it to ship it to Japan. Where it can easily be separated. There was no need in Japan for barrels and barrels of Mercury. It was weapons grade nuclear materials that they were being sent. Read about U-234 and the sub about to be raised off of Norway and the sub off the south part of Africa sank on its way to Japan if you want to find out about what Japan had in the way of nukes. They also shipped Me262 to deliver the nuke, and a semi guided glider missile to extend the range and save the bomber pilot from the nuke blast. The design was similar to the "thin man" nuke bomb design of the US. Plutonium based gun type bomb.

 

[edwest4]

From Atomversuche in Deutschland by Guenter Nagel:


ALSOS MISSION

2 May 1945


"A new edition of 'Forschungsberichte' was planned containing articles on successful pile experiments. Five articles in all were contemplated, and Gerlach wrote an introductory summary. We found this introductory summary in rough pencilled form, which gives the status of the project as of January 1945."


Forget Heisenberg. Look up Manfred von Ardenne and his Stalin Prize award for work on the Russian atom bomb.

 

[Antonio]

They also shipped Me262 to deliver the nuke, and a semi guided glider missile to extend the range and save the bomber pilot from the nuke blast. The design was similar to the "thin man" nuke bomb design of the US. Plutonium based gun type bomb.

Would you be so kind to post sources, please?. I'd love to see drawings or read more about that subject was totally unknown to me.

Thanks in advance,

Antonio

 

[quellish]

The design was similar to the "thin man" nuke bomb design of the US. Plutonium based gun type bomb.

Physics FAIL!

 

[Lauge]

I think if you read about the german nuke program,.......

Read where? I ask because amazing amounts of weapons-grade bullchips has been written (and even published in book form) on this topic over the years.

There were 3 nuke detonations in Germany that the US knew of.

And the evidence for this is...... ???

The KGB has one of the film reels of one of the detonations later in the war.

Since your statement is so definite, I assume you have seen and validated this film? Could you post it on YouTube please, with a source reference? I'd love to see it.

It is believed that Japan detonated one of the german nukes in Korea.

Believed by whom, and on what basis?

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

 

[edwest4]

There was a man on the ground at the time who had his report published. There is no reason to believe it was a false report.



http://www.reformation.org/atlanta-constitution.html

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Some guy says some guy told him. Must be true. All accounts of Soviet atom bomb development published have covered up the fact that tortured Japanese atomic scientists gave them the secret of the bomb. Fuchs is off the hook, presumably.

Yup, no evidence all all there. Move along please.

 

[edwest4]

Yes, of course. Nothing to see here, move along. The report exists and there is no reason to believe it is not factual.

 

[Orionblamblam]

Yes, of course. Nothing to see here, move along. The report exists and there is no reason to believe it is not factual.

Nor is there reason to believe it's actually *accurate.* The end result of a major war, the downfall of an empire and utter chaos and collapse is a little thing called "chaos." With that you get muddled reports that turn hearsay into certainty, theories into established facts, BS into Nazi flying saucers and Japanese atomic bombs and Hitler surviving in Germany, Russia, Argentina, Antarctica, the Moon and Peoria.

Only those reports that can be substantiated pass the test of time.

 

[edwest4]

Uh huh. A group of experts examined documents that date from the war and were returned to Japan by the widow of the man who had secretly kept them. They included diagrams.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2170881.stm

 

[Orionblamblam]

Uh huh. A group of experts examined documents that date from the war and were returned to Japan by the widow of the man who had secretly kept them. They included diagrams.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2170881.stm

Notice how there's preciesly no mention of any actual Japanese A-bombs having been built? it's one thing to sketch an A-bomb, it's quite another to actually build one, never mind detonate one and somehow hide it from the world for sixty years.

Nobody denies that the Japanese had an A-bomb program (2, in fact). What those of us who prefer the real world over fantasy deny is that there's any evidence that the Japanese actually *built* a bomb.

 

[edwest4]

After working for over 20 years as a professional researcher for a non-secret, non-government company, I have never had the luxury of yelling BS at my boss when handed an assignment. I always had to work with the assumption that no matter how bizarre the request, that information could be located. After countless such assignments, I have failed to find anything for only one. That's what real research is -- you don't yell BS, you do research. It doesn't matter how often some idiot (no one specific) says something is or is not true. And if it should concern anyone, whatever the subject, then you might have to get up yourself and do the actual work. Obviously, no one else has tried for whatever reason.

I've read the article more than once and it does not offer the usual "nowhere near" assessment constantly attributed to German atomic work but the assessment that it would not have been very powerful. Sorry, but I've used newspaper accounts from named individuals who are identified by rank and service and/or agency, in this case, a specific newspaper. I think the occam's razor concept applies. I would not, under any circumstances, run to my newspaper and ask them to publish nonsense for any reason. My friends in the publishing field would agree. It's not only unethical but would make me look stupid.

 

[Orionblamblam]

I always had to work with the assumption that no matter how bizarre the request, that information could be located.

Then by all means, go ahead and locate the evidence that the Japanese actually built and tested an A-bomb. Since one cannot set off an atomic bomb on the ground and not leave a radiactive mess that's still quite detectable a half dozen decades later, this should be a snap.

It doesn't matter how often some idiot (no one specific) says something is or is not true.

Indeed. But sixty years of Epic Fail when it comes to producing *anything* substantive on this myth is pretty good evidence *against.* Numerous interviews with Japanese scientists actually involved in the program, where they point out that they were nowhere near having a bomb, is good evidence *against.* Given the lack of *any* good evidence *for,* the rational response is to consider this story just so much fog-of-war urban legendry.

I think the occam's razor concept applies.

Indeed it does. But the razor does not cut the way you seem to want it to.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

There was a man on the ground at the time who had his report published. There is no reason to believe it was a false report.

http://www.reformation.org/atlanta-constitution.html

http://www.reformation.org/

Journey to the center of the stationary earth!!

There's a whopping big reason to believe everything associated with this webpage is crazy nonsense.

Please Mods. just ban this guy now before he starts to post about various counter knowledge, pusedo science, crazy blabber.

 

[Orionblamblam]

There's a whopping big reason to believe everything associated with this webpage is crazy nonsense.

Sadly, it's not necessarily that simple... sometimes the whackjob websites are the only sources online for various "real" items. The newspaper article, for instance is the real deal. Where the whackjob websites go screwy is when they attempt to "interpret" the data.

I've found leads to lots of good stuff on UFO websites. But leads for research only... the site might references such-and-other technical report; they see the report as proof of alien visitations, but once obtained from FOIA, the report turns out to be a good source for technical information.

 

[bobbymike]

There's a whopping big reason to believe everything associated with this webpage is crazy nonsense.

Sadly, it's not necessarily that simple... sometimes the whackjob websites are the only sources online for various "real" items. The newspaper article, for instance is the real deal. Where the whackjob websites go screwy is when they attempt to "interpret" the data.

I've found leads to lots of good stuff on UFO websites. But leads for research only... the site might references such-and-other technical report; they see the report as proof of alien visitations, but once obtained from FOIA, the report turns out to be a good source for technical information.

Orionblamblam - I agree there are some nutty websites where you can find some interesting facts surrounded by nonsense interpretation of that data. Also there are some "peace" sites that look all over the web and do the hard FOIA stuff and post it free to download from there sites.

 

[Kiwiguy]

Do you (or anyone else) know if this prototype was supposed to include a live core (enriched uranium or plutonium), or was it "merely" a test article with an inert core?

Kind regards,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

Hi Thomas. I have studied both the German and Japanese atomic projects. Only the Germans attempted to approach the Plutonium weapon and needed another 6 years to ever get close. The Germans however also had quite a sophisticated Uranium enrichment project and could have come close to a Uranium weapon. Uranium bombs however are not failsafe and are difficult to deploy as weapons.

What is certain however is that if anything the Japanese developed far better centrifuge technology under their naval nuclear project.

The historical analysis of Japan's project dwells upon Nishina's IJA project which explored lots of dead alleys in terms of enrichment technology like thermal diffusion and cyclotrons.

The IJN project developed a centrifuge with faster spin rates than any used today with rare earth metals. Speed dictates the rate of enrichment, so it is plausible with good enough centrifuges that the Japanese could have enriched sufficient HEU.

From late 1943 following a request for Czech Uranium ore by gen Kawashima in July 1943, a series of U-boats began transporting uranium oxides to Singapore. Japan had very little recoverable uranium in it's conquered territory so needed German raw material.

If you know about nuclear weapons then you will understand that with high enough enrichment, Uranium is not hard at all to detonate. Also you have to understand that when Japan fell in August 1945 there was a turf war between the OSS team in Korea and the Compton Scientific Team (Maj Furman) representing the Manhatten project.

The OSS teams boldly parachuted into Korea and Manchuria before the Japanese surrender and acquired information which indicated the Japanese test blasted a bomb at an island off the coast near Hungnam (Konan) two days after Hiroshima was bombed.

The main informant for OSS was a Captain Wakabayashi of Japan's equivalent to the Gestapo, who was interviewed at a Shinto shrine in Pyongyang by OSS agent David Snell, where Capt Wakabayashi was a reverred guest. David Snell recounts treating the man with a reverence which was odd for a defeated surrendering enemy. He was promised by Snell that his true identity would not be disclosed.

Snell's OSS report discloses that Wakabayashi's identity was a false one and that name was a pseudonym. His real identity from my own personal research appears to be Prince Chichuba of the Japanese royal family. The role he played in destroying the underground laboratory of the 8th Imperial Army Laboratory at Hungnam and his physical appearance fit the role and appearance of the same Prince in the Phillippines.

Japanese princes often performed military roles under false identities.

The Manhatten project not only sought to discredit all the claims about nuclear advances by the OSS, but also used their influence with truman to evict the OSS from Korea and Japan, but then used that influence to have Pres Truman totally disband the OSS.

In other words there were higher agendas at stake and there was a concerted US effort to muzzle evidence of Japan's nuclear project in Norther Korea.

 

[Hammer Birchgrove]

The main informant for OSS was a Captain Wakabayashi of Japan's equivalent to the Gestapo, who was interviewed at a Shinto shrine in Pyongyang by OSS agent David Snell, where Capt Wakabayashi was a reverred guest. David Snell recounts treating the man with a reverence which was odd for a defeated surrendering enemy. He was promised by Snell that his true identity would not be disclosed.

Can I assume you mean Kempeitai?