Tesla Cybertruck

Could it be the vehicles' nature rather than them travelling slower?
Whenever I am towing a trailer behind my car, I match speed with the trucks and HGVs, making driving with a trailer much less hectic.
 
Arjen said:
Could it be the vehicles' nature rather than them travelling slower?
Whenever I am towing a trailer behind my car, I match speed with the trucks and HGVs, making driving with a trailer much less hectic.
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I don't believe so, but I'd need to see the underlying data.

I vaguely remember it controlling for type of vehicle.
 
Arjen said:
Could it be the vehicles' nature rather than them travelling slower?
Whenever I am towing a trailer behind my car, I match speed with the trucks and HGVs, making driving with a trailer much less hectic.
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I haven’t seen anyone towing a trailer behind a car in North America in years. Trucks and body on frame SUVs are considered tow vehicles, very occasionally crossovers, but almost never sedans of any size or description.

If you’ve reduced speed and are following 90kmph limited trucks on motorways, that’s perfectly fine and prudent. Lots of people tow caravans in the UK with surprisingly small vehicles that don’t even have a tow rating in North America. The biggest risk in towing with a small vehicle at high speeds is having the trailer start to fishtail, at which point, it start to act like a giant pendulum, with braking only exacerbating the phenomenon.

There’s a reason why towing optimized trucks, and formerly SUVs, with “3/4 ton” and up ratings never have wheelbases less than about 3300mm. Longer wheelbases lend stability in towing, especially when you’re towing 6 tons and over.

So, you’re doing well to reduce speed when towing with your little car. However, in America, you’d be getting tailgated by semis traveling at 120kmph as our heavy trucks don’t have 90kmph speed limiters. Personally, I’ve always towed on Interstates with full sized trucks, vans and SUVs and I’ve always kept up with traffic.

Historically, before CAFE regulations killed sedans and wagons, you could buy a full sized car with the same big block V8, transmission and rear differential as a 1 ton truck. Big cars were great tow vehicles. The final cars capable of towing 7,000lbs was taken out of production by GM in 1996 and without the competitive pressure, Ford dropped their own heavy duty towing packages from Crown Vic and Town Car.
 
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Scott Kenny said:
It's well documented that vehicles traveling 5% slower than the flow of traffic are involved in far more accidents than vehicles traveling 15% faster than the flow of traffic.

If traffic flows at the speed limit in the EU, then Tesla cars will follow the speed limits.
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Almost every rush hour traffic jam that isn’t the result of a collision is started by an underspeed vehicle, creating a domino effect that leads to gridlock. The little old lady driving under the speed limit is more likely to represent that dangerous 5%
 
TinWing said:
in America, you’d be getting tailgated by semis traveling at 120kmph as our heavy trucks don’t have 90kmph speed limiters.
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The Dutch speed limit for HGVs is 80 kph, in practice they often travel at 90 kph.
Sedans and hatchbacks towing trailers are commonplace here, from personal experience I can say the same goes for France, the UK, Sweden, Denmark, Germany and Belgium. As far as I know, in all those countries cars towing trailers are subject to similar speed limits that HGVs are subject to.

HGVs at over 100 kph freak me out. Apparently, they also freak out most European lawmakers.
Dutch reasoning is that Dutch traffic is so dense, a daytime 100 kph limit is warranted for non-HGV motorway traffic on road safety grounds alone.

From what I have read about Dutch traffic accidents, and what I have experienced myself, speeding drivers cause more accidents than slow drivers. The bigger the difference with the 100 kph limit, the bigger the misery caused.
Slow drivers are a very distant second - if that.
 
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TinWing said:
I haven’t seen anyone towing a trailer behind a car in North America in years.
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I towed a sailboat and a small utility trailer behind a couple different Ford Focuses (Foci?) for many years. Last time I did it was in 2023 and I'd still be doing it if I hadn't sold the last one.

A utility trailer plus a car or small crossover can be great for someone who sometimes needs to haul stuff but doesn't want the expense or crap driving experience of a pickup (assuming they have a place to park said trailer).
 
Arjen said:
The Dutch speed limit for HGVs is 80 kph, in practice they often travel at 90 kph.
Sedans and hatchbacks towing trailers are commonplace here, from personal experience I can say the same goes for France, the UK, Sweden, Denmark, Germany and Belgium. As far as I know, in all those countries cars towing trailers are subject to similar speed limits that HGVs are subject to.

HGVs at over 100 kph freak me out. Apparently, they also freak out most European lawmakers.
Dutch reasoning is that Dutch traffic is so dense, a daytime 100 kph limit is warranted for non-HGV motorway traffic on road safety grounds alone.

From what I have read about Dutch traffic accidents, and what I have experienced myself, speeding drivers cause more accidents than slow drivers. The bigger the difference with the 100 kph limit, the bigger the misery caused.
Slow drivers are a very distant second - if that.
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Automakers give much lower towing ratings for the same models of car sold in America compared to Europe, due to us allowing higher speeds
https://www.curbsideclassic.com/auto-biography/the-great-american-anti-towing-conspiracy/
 
gtg947h said:
I towed a sailboat and a small utility trailer behind a couple different Ford Focuses (Foci?) for many years. Last time I did it was in 2023 and I'd still be doing it if I hadn't sold the last one.

A utility trailer plus a car or small crossover can be great for someone who sometimes needs to haul stuff but doesn't want the expense or crap driving experience of a pickup (assuming they have a place to park said trailer).
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I’ve towed a utility trailer for years and quite frankly a pickup is so much easier than hitching up the trailer. That, and you can buy a basic new full sized pickup for 1/3 to 1/2 as much as a full sized SUV. Tahoes and Expeditions are luxury haulers for soccer moms but you can still buy a Silverado WT or F-150 XL. Personally, I tow far less now that I have a pickup than when I had a huge SUV. And I never have towed with a front drive based crossover. Transaxles are just too fragile. I also don’t bother towing with a muscle car because while the drivetrain is perfect, the ground clearance is too low for a gooseneck hitch. And where would I bolt a hitch receiver on a car? Then there’s the issue of towing with tiny side view mirrors. There’s a reason why pickups come standard with giant mirror for towing .

The Ford Focus is now extinct and I’m not sure they were ever rated to tow in North America. The only automatic transmission available for the last gen was a dry plate DCT that was invariably replaced under warranty by Ford. I really cannot imagine how that weak transmission would have stood up to hauling out at a boat ramp? But there again, you’re probably not an American and you were driving a Focus with a manual transmission? The irony is that in America the last generation a Focus found an application in being flat towed behind motorhomes because the doomed DCT did disconnect completely in neutral. Great for being towed itself. But there again, the same was true of late Smart ForTwos.

But I do get that the perspective is different from Europe and especially the UK. Especially now that pickups like the Toyota Hilux are being penalized with new taxes in Britain.
 
Arjen said:
The Dutch speed limit for HGVs is 80 kph, in practice they often travel at 90 kph.
Sedans and hatchbacks towing trailers are commonplace here, from personal experience I can say the same goes for France, the UK, Sweden, Denmark, Germany and Belgium. As far as I know, in all those countries cars towing trailers are subject to similar speed limits that HGVs are subject to.

HGVs at over 100 kph freak me out. Apparently, they also freak out most European lawmakers.
Dutch reasoning is that Dutch traffic is so dense, a daytime 100 kph limit is warranted for non-HGV motorway traffic on road safety grounds alone.

From what I have read about Dutch traffic accidents, and what I have experienced myself, speeding drivers cause more accidents than slow drivers. The bigger the difference with the 100 kph limit, the bigger the misery caused.
Slow drivers are a very distant second - if that.
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In all fairness, unrestricted sections of German autobahns work fairly well with speed limited trucks in the right lane at 90kmph, normal traffic at 130kmph and people cruising at over 200kmph in the far left lane. On the other hand, Germans have incredible lane discipline and are better drivers than most. In the United States, our interstate highway speed limits vary widely by state, from 105kmph to 120kpmh with a little 85MPH insanity in Texas. The real problem is that Americans have zero lane discipline and our tractor trailers move at or well above the speed limit. Which means that the Class 8 truck tailgating you sets your effective speed. You cannot safely tow with a compact car at 80 or 90kmph on an American interstate highway when the traffic is moving at 110 to 135kmph.

To safely tow on a 65MPH (105kmph) interstate you have safely be able to maintain 110-115kmph to keep up with legal traffic. Or more likely 120kmph sustained. This is why Americans cannot tow caravans with tiny hatchbacks. A VW Golf has too short a wheelbase to tow a caravan at 120kmph with adequate stability, even if the drivetrain was up to task. And yes, I have seen caravans fishtailing behind compact cars in the UK, even on A-roads, probably not much over the legal speed limit.
 
TinWing said:
quite frankly a pickup is so much easier than hitching up the trailer.
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True, but for the other 98% of my driving (and of most other peoples' driving too), like going to work, taking kids to appointments, getting groceries, etc. the smaller vehicle is often advantageous. And depending what you're moving, the trailer can be easier to load.

I had an F150 for a while, which I'd originally gotten cheap as a third vehicle for Lowe's runs. Most of the time driving it was a PITA. It sucked gas, drove and rode like [crap], and was a pain to park any time I had to go into town. Ironically, i never towed anything with that truck...

Eventually I sold it off and went back to small vehicle plus 5x8 trailer, which netted me a couple grand and saved me on insurance.

TinWing said:
1/3 to 1/2 as much as a full sized SUV.
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Loys of folks aren't interested in those, either.

It's a shame the small pickup mostly disappeared in the US. I'd happily drive an electric one if my commute got shorter.

TinWing said:
And I never have towed with a front drive based crossover.
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Done it a fair bit, actually. Mom's Escape pulled Dad's old sailboat (a little 13ft) around town just fine. Pretty much every car I owned other than my first (a 1993 Mustang) had a hitch available and I installed one.
TinWing said:
And where would I bolt a hitch receiver on a car?
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They make bolt-on receivers for just about everything. Lots of folks buy them just for mounting things like bike racks.
TinWing said:
The Ford Focus is now extinct and I’m not sure they were ever rated to tow in North America. The only automatic transmission available for the last gen was a dry plate DCT that was invariably replaced under warranty by Ford. I really cannot imagine how that weak transmission would have stood up to hauling out at a boat ramp? But there again, you’re probably not an American and you were driving a Focus with a manual transmission?
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Nope, I'm in the deep south US (Georgia) where the "full size" truck is ubiquitous. The first Focus (2003) was a manual and it pulled a 14ft sailboat from Atlanta to Savannah, as well as countless trips around town with a small utility trailer. I loved that car, but eventually it died and parts plus tools was going to cost more than the car had been worth.

The second had that DCT and my sister towed some with it before I bought it off her. Didn't keep it long though.

But keep in mind too, I'm talking small trailers grossing 2000lb or less loaded, not monstrosities needing gooseneck setups, brake controllers, and the like. And I'm rarely going more than 20 miles or so. Basic homeowner uses, essentially.

That said, my current ride (Model Y, which isn't really a crossover but rather a fat hatchback) is absolutely great for towing such things as long as you aren't going very far. Even then, I took my trailer (plus golf cart) and two UHaul trailers back from Savannah to Atlanta when we moved last year. It took a while, and it's not the vehicle I'd choose if "tow trailers long distances" was something I did regularly... but for the hopefully once-in-my-lifetime move it was fine, and the car is infinitely better for the other 99% of my driving than any truck.
 
I mean, the Cybertruck fails as a truck. Particularly marketing.

Ford Lightning, on the other hand, is rated to tow 15,000lbs. It won't tow 15,000lbs super far, maybe 100-150 miles total. per Ford's own advertising: Can't cheat physics. But it'll tow 15,000lbs 50-60 miles out and back.
 
Cybertruck is now the worst performing car launch in US history after having surpassed the Ford Edsel.

Ford predicted 200,000 annual sales for the Edsel and sold 54,600 in the first six months but only 63,110 for the whole year, 44,891 in the second year and 2,846 in the third year.

Tesla gave market guidance of 250,000 annual Cybertruck sales but sold 38,965 in 2024 (including pre-orders), 20,237 in 2025 and just 7,133 in the first six months of 2026.

https://ritholtz.com/2026/08/bloomberg-teslas-edsel-moment/

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...k-risks-becoming-the-ford-edsel-of-the-ev-era

But that's not their only headache, their Q2 results last week revealed a negative $1.09bn free cashflow for the quarter. Sales were up 23% but operating expenses were up 43% and operating margins per car were down from 4.1% last year to just 1.4% this year. They also issued guidance that in the second half of the year they expected to invest $25bn and borrow $30bn.
 
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NMaude said:
The Cybertruck looks like an 80s reject idea for a Ute and it wouldn't have been out of place in an episode of Knight Rider, Battlestar Galactica or Buck Rogers and the 25th Century.
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This is what happens when you have elon do product design as opposed to marketing.

Still, think of the lower production cost from simple shapes, the removal of the expensive paint shop and other "neat" things like even more cost cutting with removing stalks, buttons, and instruments displays.

This is ford's
Any customer can have a car painted any colour that he wants, so long as it is black.
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but not at the time where there is only one scaled manufacturer!
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People say elon is a money guy, but looking at this, he is definitely on the spectrum. (and do people ever like, uhm, hear his 'speeches')
 
The Model T originally came in four colours; Red, Blue, Green and Grey. The black only era was 1914-1925 and was done because Black dried quicker, the previous colours took 8 weeks to apply with several coats and then a clear varnish on top which meant a lot of cars to store while they dried. There were actually 30 different shades of black applied to different body parts before colours returned to Ford in 1926 after the discovery of paint solvents and sprayable paint in 1921 and GM toured coloured and striped cars at automobile shows in 1923.
 
had said:
your thoughts about Tesla's new baby?
gettyimages-2265246421.jpg

cybercab-starlink.webp


I like the front, don't like the back and hate the rims and color.
And I thank the citizens of Austin for their unpaid guinea pig participation.
Hail, Musk
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I'm not aware of any testing going on near me but I've seen one of these a couple times a few weeks ago near my home in Northern VA. I'm a little indifferent to them right now, but I'm open to see how they perform.
 

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