China ICBM force build up

Desertfox

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Sentinel was specifically built to deter Russia, not China, China was not building tons of missiles back when the program started.

Also who else shall we compare the US too? Russia is the only other country with tons of pre-built silos and a nuclear rearmament program. China is mostly starting from scratch.
 
Sentinel was specifically built to deter Russia, not China, China was not building tons of missiles back when the program started.

Also who else shall we compare the US too? Russia is the only other country with tons of pre-built silos and a nuclear rearmament program. China is mostly starting from scratch.
Having the will, resources, secrecy and zero political opposition from a massive industrial base takes you a really long way.

I’m not saying they will be Russia/US 1945-1965 with tens of thousands of warheads and thousands of delivery vehicles but then getting to parity with the US and Russia you only need to get to about 1500 deployed strategic warheads. Seems very doable.
 
Having the will, resources, secrecy and zero political opposition from a massive industrial base takes you a really long way.

I’m not saying they will be Russia/US 1945-1965 with tens of thousands of warheads and thousands of delivery vehicles but then getting to parity with the US and Russia you only need to get to about 1500 deployed strategic warheads. Seems very doable.
They've built 400 silos in their west desert. All they have to do is fill them with DF-31s/41s and it's a done deal.
 
14 years ago with the program completely opaque to the west. In a 2014 issue of LANL National Security Science an article about US/Russia/China’s nuclear enterprise had this nifty nugget.
—————————————
“Numbers of Weapons estimates are problematic. Historically, the 20,000
estimates have not always been accurate.
For example, the error in the estimated size of the Soviet nuclear stockpile during the Cold War was larger than the entire stockpile Russia is estimated to have today.

In 1993 the Russians revealed that the Soviet’s nuclear stockpile peaked in 1986 at 45,000 weapons. This number was 17,000 warheads above estimates from the U.S. intelligence.”
—————————————
Why I scoff at the constant “but China has only 300 warheads” as if we have a clue.
 
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14 years ago with the program completely opaque to the west. In a 2014 issue of LANL National Security Science an article about US/Russia/China’s nuclear enterprise had this nifty nugget.
—————————————
“Numbers of Weapons estimates are problematic. Historically, the 20,000
estimates have not always been accurate.
For example, the error in the estimated size of the Soviet nuclear stockpile during the Cold War was larger than the entire stockpile Russia is estimated to have today.

In 1993 the Russians revealed that the Soviet’s nuclear stockpile peaked in 1986 at 45,000 weapons. This number was 17,000 warheads above estimates from the U.S. intelligence.”
—————————————
Why I scoff at the constant “but China has only 300 warheads” as if we have a clue.
You may find it interesting to learn that China has been making a number of major expansions to their military nuclear reprocessing site over the course of the last 13 years, with the majority of the work occurring between 2019–2024 (although some major work on the first small part started back in 2013–2019). Most of these additions are absurdly huge, substantially larger than any of the existing infrastructure.

They have also constructed a gargantuan (and constantly expanding) "civilian" nuclear reprocessing plant at a separate area semi-near the military plant (it's about 60 miles away from the military plant, and is located within the boundaries of the same restricted military area that houses the military nuclear reprocessing site).

While I believe that the "civilian" plant is probably truly intended to be used to process civilian SNF in the long term, I'm not 100% confident that they won't use it to process military SNF from weapons grade plutonium production reactors in the short to mid term.

(Amusingly enough, they have been using old waste casks from the military reprocessing site as infill beneath both sites. There's literally mountains of waste casks buried under the foundations of each of these new buildings. They also have hilariously lax rad waste management, with waste casks literally sprinkled heavily everywhere all over the plant, including right next to active production buildings. There's a mountain of casks that keeps expanding at an alarming rate at one spot, which has horribly poor water containment around it. And there's surface level open uncovered liquid waste disposal ponds, which have been repeatedly and massively expanded over the last decade or two. Their approach to radwaste seems to be largely stuck in the worst of the 1950s era practices.)

Radwaste hijinks aside,
the ridiculously huge expansion at the military site and the ridiculously huge build-out at the "civilian" site seems to strongly suggest that China's capacity to produce weapons grade plutonium has massively expanded in recent years. Interestingly there is very little discussion of this online. The civilian plant has seen a tiny bit of discussion, but the military plant has seen virtually none whatsoever.

You can check these out for yourself on Google Earth by visiting the following coordinates:

Military plant: 40°13'36.42"N 97°22'14.66"E

Civilian plant: 40°20'58.80"N 98°29'39.50"E

Note that the coordinates I provided are arbitrarily chosen points. Neither coordinate resolves directly to any structure, rather, both resolve to locations that are very close to existing infrastructure. You will need to pan around in order to find the actual structures and features of interest. For the civilian site, this is easy, as nearly all interesting points are located close together. For the military site, this is less straightforwards, as this site is extremely spread out. I recommend zooming out on both sites, but especially for the military site, as there are tons of features that are widely separated from other collections of areas of interest, and you can easily miss interesting POIs if you don't dig around.

Make sure to use the historical imagery viewer tool (to view older satellite imagery captures) in order to see the progression of construction/changes over time at these sites, and be sure to zoom and pan around both areas, as there are many structures and areas of interest at both sites that are located fairly far away from the coordinates I've provided.

Edit: As per my latest post, I agree with TwoTribes that I likely misinterpreted the satellite imagery for the infill characterization.
 
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Amusingly enough, they have been using old waste casks from the military reprocessing site as infill beneath both sites. There's literally mountains of waste casks buried under the foundations of each of these new buildings.
Hello, could you please explain how you determined that they engaged in this behavior? I checked the historical imagery on Google Earth, and based on my assessment, it does not appear that "nuclear waste was used as building foundations."
 
Hello, could you please explain how you determined that they engaged in this behavior? I checked the historical imagery on Google Earth, and based on my assessment, it does not appear that "nuclear waste was used as building foundations."
40°13'36.98"N 97°21'39.30"E (check pre and post 2019 dates - the 2013 capture is one of the best lit views if you are focused on verification alone)

This is just one of countless examples across both sites.

If you doubt that these are waste casks, then take a look at what I have dubbed the "ominous waste cask mountain", and pay close attention to the historical satellite captures over the time period I noted:

40°13'02.91"N 97°20'00.74"E (look at all historical captures from 2004 onwards individually)

If you still have doubts that they are using waste casks as infill, take a look at all post-2016 captures at and around here:

40°19'55.12"N 98°29'30.07"E (site is clear in 2016, all post-2016 captures show the gradual progression and expansion of the site including countless telltale signs that waste casks are being used as infill, and a portion of the site still shows exposed casks in the infill layers to this day)

There are many more examples, these are just some of the most obvious ones.


Edit: As per my latest post, I agree with TwoTribes that I likely misinterpreted the satellite imagery for the infill characterization.
 
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You mentioned the "ominous waste cask mountain"(40°13'02.91"N 97°20'00.74"E), which I believe belongs to the chemical plant to the south. Therefore, these wastes should be chemical rather than nuclear.

668056810.jpg
中核华原钛白股份公司, "钛白" means titanium dioxide, a chemical material commonly used in coatings.

If the sulfuric acid method is used to produce titanium dioxide, it generates ferrous sulfate waste, which is green in color, so it looks like "ominous".



40°13'36.98"N 97°21'39.30"E & 40°19'55.12"N 98°29'30.07"E, I don't think they are nuclear waste; they should just be mounds of earth.

28° 7'26.87"N, 34°56'40.77"E (2023.05) The Line - NEOM project
114567325.jpg
24°49'2.96"N, 46°33'59.86"E (2024.09) The Mukaab
114567814.jpg
29°56'0.31"N, 31°38'13.98"E (2017.10) The New Egyptian Ministry of Defense Building
114567505.jpg

Are these mounds very similar to those in Jiuquan?
114567057.jpg

In the latest images, you can also see that this site is connected by roads to the surrounding quarries.

So I'm more inclined to believe that these mounds are just ordinary mounds of earth.
 
You mentioned the "ominous waste cask mountain"(40°13'02.91"N 97°20'00.74"E), which I believe belongs to the chemical plant to the south. Therefore, these wastes should be chemical rather than nuclear.
Why would there be a titanium dioxide plant on a restricted military installation?

If the sulfuric acid method is used to produce titanium dioxide, it generates ferrous sulfate waste, which is green in color, so it looks like "ominous".
I labeled it ominous for its scale and growth, not its color.

40°13'36.98"N 97°21'39.30"E & 40°19'55.12"N 98°29'30.07"E, I don't think they are nuclear waste; they should just be mounds of earth.
Hah, I think you're right. I probably should have looked at some other major earth moving projects on satellite before jumping to conclusions about the character of blurry cylindrical objects on commercial satellite imagery.

The rest of my points about the expansion rate, size, and likely dual use nature of the civilian plant still stand though.

I'll strike the points that are no longer likely to be well supported by the current evidence from my original messages.

Thank you for taking the time to review my work and point out these issues with it!
 
Why would there be a titanium dioxide plant on a restricted military installation?
1. combines two wasted land estates
2. combines security cost and personnel
3. it's a cheap or rather zero cost trap option compared to a mine field to deter tresspassers and makes it harder for special forces to infiltrate
4. only affects the health of "losers"

The more important question is when will we adopt this?
 
1. combines two wasted land estates
2. combines security cost and personnel
3. it's a cheap or rather zero cost trap option compared to a mine field to deter tresspassers and makes it harder for special forces to infiltrate
4. only affects the health of "losers"

The more important question is when will we adopt this?

This reminds me of the British 'Tube Alloys' atomic weapon research project , before Britain joined the Manhattan Project . For security , the Tube Alloys facility was located inside a nerve gas production plant . . .

cheers ,
Robin .
 
This reminds me of the British 'Tube Alloys' atomic weapon research project , before Britain joined the Manhattan Project . For security , the Tube Alloys facility was located inside a nerve gas production plant . . .

cheers ,
Robin .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._S._Factory,_Valley
Apologies for the minor correction;- not nerve gas, but mustard gas. Also within the perimeter of rather than inside. Building P6 had been constructed to house a chemical plant which was deemed unnecessary so it was made available for a U235 separation plant…..Which was installed and running before the Y facility at Oak Ridge.
 
@Zoo Tycoon ; no worries , it's been a while since I read the book where I saw the information . I knew it was nasty stuff , and by 'inside' I did mean inside the fence , not actually inside the plant ; I should have been more clear . . .

cheers ,
Robin .
 
It's important to note that China has some insurance: a large scale nuclear attack on them would send a massive plume of fallout over South Korea and Japan.
 

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