Jaguar will be an all-electric car brand from 2025

That is what happpens when JLR push for something that no one seams to want at present Grey Havoc.
 
What I would do is contact Jay Leno and Mythbuster Jamie and build a car from the standpoint of what is easy to repair.
Round headlights, off the shelf parts, etc.

That is a new identity which will appeal to the Make movement.
The LEGO folks are close to their consumers and nothing short of that will regain trust.
You have to get people involved, and not just up and say 'This will be your only choice."
 
Tata are taking a far closer interest in JLR... and who can blame them? with new models since 2022 and one of your major brands effectively shuttered with only a poorly received concept to keep things moving, it's arguably not a way to manage a car company...

As an aside, Massimo Frascella, McGoverns deputy, left last year and ended up Audi, who's most recent concept has a similar design language to the Type 00...

Zeb
 
Hood said:
JLR has fired Gerry McGovern.
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They not only fired him, according to news, the Security drag him out Building, while he was screaming...

so for Jaguar back to drawing board, with New Car Designer, hope with someone with better tased as McGovern...
 
Realistically, the sudden, indeed brutal, way in which McGovern was dismissed would open JLR up to legal action by him unless management was confident that he didn't want to risk dirty laundry being aired. If they were making a strategic decision to move in a different direction, it would be much less dramatic, cultivated to give the impression that all was running smoothly and according to plan. Why? Well, as Francis Urquhart would say, You might think that; I couldn't possibly comment.

I must add that I have no evidence of any impropriety.
 
The new car is shedding its disguise. The foam padding on prototypes gave the silhouette of a saloon but now that it's been shed from the rear, you can see a more GT-like profile. It'll have four doors because virtually nobody buys two-door cars (Bentley and Rolls Royce excepted, Aston Martin not) unless they're mid-engined supercars, but that still doesn't mean that it's anything other than a coupé.
 

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Brett Davidson said:
For those interested, the Audi Concept C.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63vta4eFpU8
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If the Jaguar concept had been a bit more like that they might have got away with it. The Audi is still a short brick, but with batteries and safety regs all cars are bricks now. The recent red version of the Jag shows the right colour can help a bit too. They seem to be selling the idea still, but using their history, not binning it. 1765103402697.jpeg
 
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No rear window, by the way. Small-ish boot but with that long nose, likely a substantial frunk. That space could allow a range-extender internal combustion engine in a PHEV setup.

Lotus's EVs have been flops and the company has now announced that it will be making hybrid versions. Rolls Royce's Spectre is a strong seller though. It depends somewhat on brand perception. The kind of smooth, silent power delivery that Rolls Royce and Bentley have traditionally provided matches electric power well but Lotus' identity has been tied to a philosophy of 'simplify and add lightness' as Colin Chapman put it. Where Jaguar sits in this range is open to question - the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
 

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Mike Pryce said:
If the Jaguar concept had been a bit more like that they might have got away with it. The Audi is still a short brick, but with batteries and safety regs all cars are bricks now. The recent red version of Jag shows the right colour can help a bit too. They seem to be selling the idea still, but using their history, not binning it.View attachment 794391
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I agree with this assessment below. Jaguar was selling an idea with the Type 00 concept, which Frank Stephenson considers 'unfinished.' There are clear references to the E-Type and the XJS, but the Type 00 concept isn't convincing as a production car. I don't think that it was ever intended to be such, more of an indication of new styling themes ('language' as designers say), but now they're in the position of having to promote it was an actual prototype (since revelation of the production car has been delayed to 2026), which it isn't.

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/op...e-p1-designer-frank-stephenson-jaguar-type-00
 
Brett Davidson said:
The kind of smooth, silent power delivery that Rolls Royce and Bentley have traditionally provided matches electric power well
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Bentley less so than RR. Rolls Royce is pure ultra-luxury brand that sustains itself from it's perception and established position, as well a quality of the cars with regards to their upholstery, fit and finish, etc.

Bentley on the other hand is far more performance oriented, that's why models like the Mulsanne died, but the Continental GT, Flying Spur or Bentayga exist. Bentleys are bought by people who consider a lamborghini too impractical and uncomfortable. The V8 and in the past W12 are very much part of the appeal though. Which is why I expect Bentleys EV to do worse than the Spectre (which also profited from RR killing the Wraith and Dawn, leaving it as the only Rolls coupé).

And Jaguar will face the same issue, luxury buyers aren't interested in EVs these days. Taycan, Macan EV, EQS, EQE, the Lotus EVs and many more are plummeting in sales and resell value. EVs depreciate hard, luxury vehicles always did, combine the two and you have a very unappealing proposition which most people will lease for a year or two at most, certainly not buying them. And Jaguar not only suffers from EV fatigue, luxury car depreciation and questionable design. Years of neglect have cemented Jaguar as a brand that is generally associated with unreliable, low quality vehicles that will lose you a fortune. This is a multi course menu of terrible truths they have to face.

Which ultimately is what dooms Jaguar, while brands like BMW or Toyota succeed.
 
Brett Davidson said:
the Type 00 concept, which Frank Stephenson considers 'unfinished.'
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Couldn't agree with him more... its the detailing on the Audi that just lifts it even though the surfacing, radii and shut line treatments are very similar...

The plan for Jaguar was to try and elevate it into Bentley/Aston Martin territory, however I fear the brand just doesn't have that currency... not in the UK certainly.

Zeb
 
I really didn't like the front of the Brickmobile but it was a demonstrator, nothing which would have ever ended in series production.

Other than the weird color, there was actually no reference to anything ''woke''. The car had a classical long hood and a wheel arrangement like classical rear wheel driven cars.

Although the design looked very blunt to me, it wasn't as terrible and contradicting anything about Jaguar as it was said. If the car would have been presented in racing green in front of a British castle, the reactions would have been very different. It was the terrible stupid advertising clip with Teletubbies on LSD which really destroyed it.
 
I disagree about PHEV, for my wife's use case at least.

She drives no more than about 50km in a day, around town, at speeds up to 50km/h. No mountain passes to climb up or long distances to travel. Very occasionally, she drives more than 75km and uses a little bit of petrol.

Once a quarter, we go 300km to her parents, which uses petrol. It's more efficient than the previous SUV even in petrol only mode. So we fill up maybe 4 times a year.

If you regularly go long distances, then its probably not the best choice. But not everyone does.
 
Brett Davidson said:
No rear window, by the way. Small-ish boot but with that long nose, likely a substantial frunk. That space could allow a range-extender internal combustion engine in a PHEV setup.

Lotus's EVs have been flops and the company has now announced that it will be making hybrid versions. Rolls Royce's Spectre is a strong seller though. It depends somewhat on brand perception. The kind of smooth, silent power delivery that Rolls Royce and Bentley have traditionally provided matches electric power well but Lotus' identity has been tied to a philosophy of 'simplify and add lightness' as Colin Chapman put it. Where Jaguar sits in this range is open to question - the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
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Where I live, hybrids make more sense (we pay a lot for electrons) than electric vehicles, but either are cheaper than gasoline (petrol) cars. On the other hand, cost of operation is not likely important to somebody spending well over $100,000 on a car.
 
Brett Davidson said:
No rear window, by the way. Small-ish boot but with that long nose, likely a substantial frunk. That space could allow a range-extender internal combustion engine in a PHEV setup.

Lotus's EVs have been flops and the company has now announced that it will be making hybrid versions. Rolls Royce's Spectre is a strong seller though. It depends somewhat on brand perception. The kind of smooth, silent power delivery that Rolls Royce and Bentley have traditionally provided matches electric power well but Lotus' identity has been tied to a philosophy of 'simplify and add lightness' as Colin Chapman put it. Where Jaguar sits in this range is open to question - the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
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I really like that zebra-print paint job. Dazzle camouflage? Count me in
 
Video posted today. Mostly discussion of comfort and handling, promising that the car will be a supremely comfortable grand tourer with great handling. Well, they weren't going to say, 'Yeah, it's as rigid as custard and rides so badly you'd think it had square wheels.' No more disguise peeled off and no footage of it in motion, but it is filmed to give a sense of scale. Probably most significant in that JLR is now starting to ramp up its publicity campaign prior to launch.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcK8ej5-F1k
 
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One glaring issue with this car at this price point, why take it over an i7, EQS, Lucid Air or Model S? Or if you prefer it less luxurious and more sporty, E-Tron GT and Taycan. And if you move up the price bracket you'll encounter the Spectre and the similar but much more admirably executed Celestiq. Not to mention that you can also get fairly competent EV sedans at lower price points like the i5, EQE, A6 E-Tron, Ioniq 6 or one of the many Chinese offers.

I fail to see the market for this car, an issue that existed with previous Jaguar models as well, simply speaking, I doubt Jaguar as a brand has the pull to steal potential customers away from such established brands which hold a more positive reputation than Jaguar had over the last 60 years. Which means even if the car was excellent and didn't look like a fridge, which is a big if, it would have to fight an tremendous uphill battle.

The investment would have been better directed towards a Land Rover/Range Rover EV tbh.
 
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EmoBirb said:
The investment would have been better directed towards a Land Rover/Range Rover EV tbh.
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There is plenty of investment being spent on LR and RR EVs, with a number of products approaching production readiness. One thig JLR is actually good at is identifying market segments where they need products. What they are bad at is predicting sales volume accurately, and marketing the cars properly. Something that always pissed us Engineers off. Too many air-headed fairies flouncing about at Whitley and Gaydon in their stylish clothes rather than doing their jobs adequately, but I digress.....

The road to how Jaguar ended up where it is has been long, tortuous, and already described by myself from my own sometime insider perspective. At this point in time they are making their last gasp attempt to do something, anything with the brand. Hence why they are targeting the upper-middle luxury GT segment with 1000+bhp products (in order to compete with California's offerings and "ze Germans" and their subsidiaries i.e. Bentley). Its interesting that with the new CEO on board the marketing ethos is already changing, and I have heard comments of a lot of dick swinging going on at the top since he arrived, which is needed because Adrian was too nice, and there are some on the Board who need treading on hard.

Also to consider; the big square-mobile (the real version of which genuinely looks great in person and on the road) that we all got our knickers in a twist over is just one of a number of Jags in development, they just aren't saying much about the others at this point. But invariably they will look good and drive well. The proof will be in the interior quality (a massive fail on all the recent jags except XJ and F-Type) and how well they market the car. The Dealer network is the other tricky subject. Some of the franchises are unfit for purpose, but JLR is particularly soft when it comes to handling them.

Finally, its a shame this combustion engine climbdown has arrived when it has since an entry level ~500-700bhp petrol would help quell some of the dissatisfaction around Jags going EV.
 
EmoBirb said:
The investment would have been better directed towards a Land Rover/Range Rover EV tbh.
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Great minds think alike. That's what they're doing with the next-generation Velar.
 

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More on the new Jag itself:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/best-riding-car-ever-150mph-first-ride-1000bhp-jaguar-gt
The head poombah explains:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/jaguar-boss-we-didnt-take-time-explain-why-we-had-change
A lot has been made of how we've used our heritage. The past is vital after all, we're in our 90th year but perhaps we haven't explained well enough that Jaguar shouldn't want to repeat itself. It's not in our DNA. Look at the step from E-Type to XJS. One of my key learnings since we first showed the Concept 00 a year ago has been that we didn't take enough time to explain why Jaguar had to change. When you lay that out clearly, people tend to get it.

Meanwhile, as Alice said, curiouser and curiouser:

https://www.thedrive.com/news/what-the-heck-is-going-on-between-jlr-and-gerry-mcgovern
Over the weekend, Automotive News Europe shared that it finally got a statement from JLR regarding the exec’s alleged firing: “It is untrue that we have terminated Gerry McGovern’s employment and we do not intend to further comment on speculative stories.”
 

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Oh, and another meanwhile, maybe off topic, but since JLR has said that the Jaguar brand is now intended to compete with Bentley, it may be worth mentioning that Bentley's own EV is starting to shed some disguise. It's not a GT but an 'urban SUV ', meaning that it's a whisker shorter than a Bentayga and only huge rather than ginormous.
 

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One thing I was thinking about was what names will JLR give the new cars? Any ideas? For instance we had the XF and the XJ for the last generation.
 
FighterJock said:
One thing I was thinking about was what names will JLR give the new cars? Any ideas? For instance we had the XF and the XJ for the last generation.
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Well, XJ harks back to "eXperimental Jaguar" from about 50 years ago. Since this is a GT then XK would be more appropriate if we're considering existing Jaaaaag names.

Personally, I hope for a tie to Jag's rich history and they go with something suitably British..... Like Bernard, or Quentin...... Yes, the Jaguar Bernard, that works.
 
Model name rather than number/letter designator would arguably be anathema to both the brand and purists but would be a good way to signal a new start...

I always liked the early Mark 1/2 etc nomenclature... you could update it as the Jaguar MK1, MK2 etc...

Zeb
 
Still in dazzle camouflage and a bit of padding but now in close-up, and in motion too.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqaJhkE93Io&t=7s


Why does the badge read 'L O R I P S'? It's a designer's joke. Lorem impsum is the nonsense text used by graphic designers laying out pages before the copy is ready.

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum...

For fun I ran it through Google Translate. Nothing happened.
 
Brett Davidson said:
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum...

For fun I ran it through Google Translate. Nothing happened.
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Its recognized as Latin by one of the online translators, but a more general search suggests its just waffle:

Properly painful though it is, one may seek relief, but only on the condition that one's labour and great suffering are exploited for someone else's benefit. For we hold that a minimum of intrusion is acceptable, and that no one should be subjected to any form of experimentation or labour unless they can derive some benefit from it. Yet they say that pain is to be reproached, that pleasure should be sought, that one should flee from pain, and that nothing should be permitted. Let there be no exceptions to this; let no one be blinded by desire, and let those who abandon their duties be held to blame, for that is the very essence of toil.

Translated with DeepL.com (free version) ** albeit with some fiddling of the first 2-3 words to get it to translate
 
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