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Jaguar will be an all-electric car brand from 2025

Calum Douglas

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If you read the press-release it actually all boils down to just been electrified, which basically includes ICE hybrids, so its pretty much the usual "look how green we are" junk designed to get enviro-brownie points.

"Land Rover will continue to offer a range of powertrains, but with a heavy focus on electrification."

Electrification is a nice buzz-phrase which means firms pretend to be going all-electric to the public, but which actually means any ICE/motor hybrids, which all sensible manufacturers had already been concentrating on for a decade or more anyway. JLR fishing for twitter likes basically.

They would be bankrupt if they made ONLY BEV in 4 years as there is virtually no charging infrastructure and nobody could use the things anyway. Will be 20 years until the infrastructure is able to fully support a combination of BEV and ICE vehicles, despite what The Guardian and other news sources like to pretend in "news office land".
 

edwest

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Calum,

Thank you for this clarification. The emerging goal of the United States is full vehicle electrification as soon as possible. This is based on what is referred to as a "million mile battery" for automobiles. I have saved a press release from March of last year that states such a battery is ready to go into production as of that time. In other news, references are being made to solid state batteries with high energy densities. Such batteries may end up in short-range aircraft sooner than most imagine. That last bit from an industry press release.

In any case, the media in the US is already gearing up for the next global disaster to affect everyone: climate change. Or to put it bluntly, anything that burns liquid fuel will have to switch over to battery-electric in a crash program.
 

Foo Fighter

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Actually there will still be a heavy reliance on ICE cars for quite a few generations yet. Don't forget the research on clean liquid fuels for aviation and road going cars and the research into clean fuels in motorsport (F1 for example). MY car is going to go on for as long as I can keep her going and she will be passed on when I am done so hopefully she will go on long after I am gone.
 
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Nigelhg

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If you read the press-release it actually all boils down to just been electrified, which basically includes ICE hybrids, so its pretty much the usual "look how green we are" junk designed to get enviro-brownie points.

"Land Rover will continue to offer a range of powertrains, but with a heavy focus on electrification."

Electrification is a nice buzz-phrase which means firms pretend to be going all-electric to the public, but which actually means any ICE/motor hybrids, which all sensible manufacturers had already been concentrating on for a decade or more anyway. JLR fishing for twitter likes basically.

They would be bankrupt if they made ONLY BEV in 4 years as there is virtually no charging infrastructure and nobody could use the things anyway. Will be 20 years until the infrastructure is able to fully support a combination of BEV and ICE vehicles, despite what The Guardian and other news sources like to pretend in "news office land".
Electrification of cars is happening at an accelerating rate- with advances in battery technology and integration of car batteries with the national grid we are definitely heading towards an integrated electric transport future. I think the UK government's timeline of phasing out ICE by 2030 unfeasible but it's amazing to watch the advancement and market for EV's go from nearly nothing 3 years ago to over 5% of all cars sold in the UK last year. At that rate it'll be 10% of all new cars sold by the end of next year and this may increase as the battery kwh costs come down.
On a side note most JLR customers will have driveways or garages where they can slow charge their cars at night. I charge my PHEV at home and at work (which is 25 miles from home) and average nearly 80mpg (UK).
 

robunos

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On a side note most JLR customers will have driveways or garages where they can slow charge their cars at night. I charge my PHEV at home and at work (which is 25 miles from home) and average nearly 80mpg (UK).

If you read the press-release it actually all boils down to just been electrified, which basically includes ICE hybrids, so its pretty much the usual "look how green we are" junk designed to get enviro-brownie points.

"Land Rover will continue to offer a range of powertrains, but with a heavy focus on electrification."

Electrification is a nice buzz-phrase which means firms pretend to be going all-electric to the public, but which actually means any ICE/motor hybrids, which all sensible manufacturers had already been concentrating on for a decade or more anyway. JLR fishing for twitter likes basically.

They would be bankrupt if they made ONLY BEV in 4 years as there is virtually no charging infrastructure and nobody could use the things anyway. Will be 20 years until the infrastructure is able to fully support a combination of BEV and ICE vehicles, despite what The Guardian and other news sources like to pretend in "news office land".
Electrification of cars is happening at an accelerating rate- with advances in battery technology and integration of car batteries with the national grid we are definitely heading towards an integrated electric transport future. I think the UK government's timeline of phasing out ICE by 2030 unfeasible but it's amazing to watch the advancement and market for EV's go from nearly nothing 3 years ago to over 5% of all cars sold in the UK last year. At that rate it'll be 10% of all new cars sold by the end of next year and this may increase as the battery kwh costs come down.
On a side note most JLR customers will have driveways or garages where they can slow charge their cars at night. I charge my PHEV at home and at work (which is 25 miles from home) and average nearly 80mpg (UK).

And that's the killer for current electric vehicle technology; you have to have somewhere secure to park the vehicle while it's being charged. If, like me, you don't have a guaranteed off-street parking space, at home, or at work, an electric car is not an option . . .

cheers,
Robin.
 

robunos

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Putting Jaguar's move into context, full electrification is desired by luxury brand buyers, but they also want the range of ICE. The low noise, smooth power delivery and high torque from a standstill are the features they want. Bentley and Rolls-Royce have both announced firm plans to move in that direction. RR has registered the name 'Silent Shadow' and ran an electric Phantom prototype some years ago. Bentley is working intensively with the rest of the Volkswagen empire on a new large EV platform. They plan to have hybrid versions of all models within a couple of years and their first full EV launched about ~2026 - but no sooner because they don't expect battery technology to be ready before then. They identify their cars as grand tourers, meaning that they have to have long range at high speed while also being large, heavy and rather bluff-bowed.

The new money (tech billionaires etc) buying them want greener cars at all levels, so alternative interior materials are becoming popular (Bentley doesn't offer plaid mode, but certainly tweed and even mushroom-derived 'vegan' leather).

New electric motor components are also being developed - non rare earth magnets and aluminium instead of copper windings for example.


No news on if they're working on a car that runs on single malt.
 

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An electric pickup truck from Rivian, backed by Amazon, is expected to begin deliveries in June 2021.

 
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Nigelhg

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On a side note most JLR customers will have driveways or garages where they can slow charge their cars at night. I charge my PHEV at home and at work (which is 25 miles from home) and average nearly 80mpg (UK).

If you read the press-release it actually all boils down to just been electrified, which basically includes ICE hybrids, so its pretty much the usual "look how green we are" junk designed to get enviro-brownie points.

"Land Rover will continue to offer a range of powertrains, but with a heavy focus on electrification."

Electrification is a nice buzz-phrase which means firms pretend to be going all-electric to the public, but which actually means any ICE/motor hybrids, which all sensible manufacturers had already been concentrating on for a decade or more anyway. JLR fishing for twitter likes basically.

They would be bankrupt if they made ONLY BEV in 4 years as there is virtually no charging infrastructure and nobody could use the things anyway. Will be 20 years until the infrastructure is able to fully support a combination of BEV and ICE vehicles, despite what The Guardian and other news sources like to pretend in "news office land".
Electrification of cars is happening at an accelerating rate- with advances in battery technology and integration of car batteries with the national grid we are definitely heading towards an integrated electric transport future. I think the UK government's timeline of phasing out ICE by 2030 unfeasible but it's amazing to watch the advancement and market for EV's go from nearly nothing 3 years ago to over 5% of all cars sold in the UK last year. At that rate it'll be 10% of all new cars sold by the end of next year and this may increase as the battery kwh costs come down.
On a side note most JLR customers will have driveways or garages where they can slow charge their cars at night. I charge my PHEV at home and at work (which is 25 miles from home) and average nearly 80mpg (UK).

And that's the killer for current electric vehicle technology; you have to have somewhere secure to park the vehicle while it's being charged. If, like me, you don't have a guaranteed off-street parking space, at home, or at work, an electric car is not an option . . .

cheers,
Robin.
I don't have a guaranteed spot either but 99% of the time it'll be one of 3 Infront on my house- I run a lead inside an anti trip cable protector across the footpath. All electric and PHEV car insurance has trip insurance built in now.
 

Foo Fighter

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A big problem, apart from the lack of an infrastructure for charging generally, is that planning permission is cutting the allocation of parking spaces in new build homes and even renovation projects. Expect new builds in the near future to have one or no spaces available. Some new builds already have a practice of a group of parking spaces within an estate but you have to rent them separately to buying the house. This is just money grabbing but reduces the viability of the electric car to the average buyer of personal vehicles.
 

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There is also the price of pure EV's, even with the government discount are, to be frank are bloody expensive. £30,000 for a Fiat 500, £23,500 for a Volkswagen EUp! £27-33,000 for a Mini. And these are the cheap ones at the end of the market and are all city car sized, for family cars like the ID3 you are looking at £30-41,000. Their conventionally-powered variants are probably £10-15,000 less. PCP spreads the cost but its still a high cost.
Prices may come down a little over the next decade but even so, for most families the 2030 switch is going to deny them cheap motoring beyond the second-hand car market.

The infrastructure problems are extensive, progress is being made but its a long way off being what is needed. I doubt that mass streetlamp charging will be feasible for several reasons.
 

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The price difference is eaten up when you include say 80,000 miles of fuel and service costs. Price per mile comes out pretty even. Most new cars go out as company cars or similar. I have gone from diesel to EV, and while there are some negatives, there are also a lot of positives. The negs are being worked on(range, charging points), and the positives are a lot of fun. If you havent tried an EV please give it a go - at some point most of us are going to have to make the change.
 

robunos

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A big problem, apart from the lack of an infrastructure for charging generally, is that planning permission is cutting the allocation of parking spaces in new build homes and even renovation projects. Expect new builds in the near future to have one or no spaces available. Some new builds already have a practice of a group of parking spaces within an estate but you have to rent them separately to buying the house. This is just money grabbing but reduces the viability of the electric car to the average buyer of personal vehicles.

This.
My situation is similar in that there are effectively two spaces for three vehicles, so whoever gets home last has to park on the street, and as I said, I would not be able to charge an EV at work.. I've driven an EV, and would love to have one, but without being able to charge it, there's no point.
The more I think about this, the more I wonder if this is just another way of reducing private vehicle ownership and use, which as we know is a stated aim of 'the powers that be'. The logic goes thus: If you want a car, it has to be electric. Got no where to charge it? Tough, catch the bus . . .'. After all, no less a person than the Leader of Birmingham City Council is on record (but I can't find the quote again), as saying 'we have to make it more difficult for people to use private cars'. Another thought. When people use their own vehicles, it costs the authorities money, in terms of upkeep of the roads. When people use public transport, the authorities make money, from the licence fees they charge the operators . . .

Ahhh found the quote HERE :-

"It's been asked, how are we going to get people out of their cars and on to more sustainable forms of transport? "The way you do that is you make it easier for public transport, and you make it more difficult for the private car. (my bold)

cheers,
Robin.
 

Volkodav

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If you read the press-release it actually all boils down to just been electrified, which basically includes ICE hybrids, so its pretty much the usual "look how green we are" junk designed to get enviro-brownie points.

"Land Rover will continue to offer a range of powertrains, but with a heavy focus on electrification."

Electrification is a nice buzz-phrase which means firms pretend to be going all-electric to the public, but which actually means any ICE/motor hybrids, which all sensible manufacturers had already been concentrating on for a decade or more anyway. JLR fishing for twitter likes basically.

They would be bankrupt if they made ONLY BEV in 4 years as there is virtually no charging infrastructure and nobody could use the things anyway. Will be 20 years until the infrastructure is able to fully support a combination of BEV and ICE vehicles, despite what The Guardian and other news sources like to pretend in "news office land".
Efficiency and reliability gains can be made by electrifying ancillaries, hence the move to such in a lot of mild hybrids. There was a lot of discussion in regards to this when I worked in the automotive industry (back when Australia still had an automotive industry). If anyone doubts the utility of electric drive just look at submarines, everything runs off the battery when submerged and the current standard is no mechanical drive to the propeller for surface running or snorting, the diesels just charge the battery, that is their sole purpose.

I love my piston engines, in particular inline sixes, but fully expect that electric vehicles that out perform my turbo six will be available and affordable in the very near future. I expect they will also be more reliable, cheaper and easier to maintain, well most of the time, I did have a Passat a couple of years ago that took the dealership several months to diagnose a faulty battery even though I said I thought it was the battery when I first took it to them and they assured me it wasn't.
 

Hood

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There will always be a limit on workplace charging, they are not going to subsidise the electricity cost forever or seriously ramp up support costs of increased charging infrastructure. Really its not their business, for them its eco-friendly brownie points to have some chargers but they are not there to provide fuel for their employees.
There has been research into contactless charging via embedded cables in the the road network, especially motorways.

Servicing is an issue, in the UK there is a shortage of trained mechanics outside the main dealer networks.
Presumably servicing and MOTs etc. should become less complicated and, in theory, cheaper. Certainly toll-per-mile is likely to replace the traditional road and fuel taxes, probably even before 2030.
The National Grid estimates the 2030 all-EV/hybrid scenario would only increase electricity consumption by 20% so perhaps the generation problem is less than feared.

As to public vs private car usage, a lot has been said about autonomous EVs that could be hired like taxis, bit like a Boris Bike scheme. That might become feasible in the 2030s (I say might as I have little faith in AI ever safely navigating real roads - my car has lane-assist warning but the camera often mistakes a wet join in the tarmac as a line marking or cries to momma and pretends the lens is obscured so it can turn itself, lucky I can decide the line is fictional, what an AI-driven car would do I shudder to think).
 

Volkodav

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There will always be a limit on workplace charging, they are not going to subsidise the electricity cost forever or seriously ramp up support costs of increased charging infrastructure. Really its not their business, for them its eco-friendly brownie points to have some chargers but they are not there to provide fuel for their employees.
There has been research into contactless charging via embedded cables in the the road network, especially motorways.

Servicing is an issue, in the UK there is a shortage of trained mechanics outside the main dealer networks.
Presumably servicing and MOTs etc. should become less complicated and, in theory, cheaper. Certainly toll-per-mile is likely to replace the traditional road and fuel taxes, probably even before 2030.
The National Grid estimates the 2030 all-EV/hybrid scenario would only increase electricity consumption by 20% so perhaps the generation problem is less than feared.

As to public vs private car usage, a lot has been said about autonomous EVs that could be hired like taxis, bit like a Boris Bike scheme. That might become feasible in the 2030s (I say might as I have little faith in AI ever safely navigating real roads - my car has lane-assist warning but the camera often mistakes a wet join in the tarmac as a line marking or cries to momma and pretends the lens is obscured so it can turn itself, lucky I can decide the line is fictional, what an AI-driven car would do I shudder to think).
There's a shortage of trained tradespeople full stop, but that's another issue entirely.
 

Fluff

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I'd suggest the problem with 'hiring' an EV, is that 'rush -hour' is still going to be a thing - if your sharing this EV then ok, its a mini-bus. but no organisation is going to buy say 20,000 EV for london, to see 70% parked up most of the day doing nothing - where would we put them? And the price per mile would be massive, to pay for all the parked units.

Self driving is years away, the number of variables in play is massive. If we were going to rebuild all our cities in sim-city style, great. How a car would calculate a crowded street, and of course you would then have people deliberately stepping out in front of a self driving car. It would be bedlam. the Self driving we have now, is glorified active cruise, ideal for the very open highways of USA. Useless on the M6, except when you get north of Blackpool.
 

sienar

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There will always be a limit on workplace charging, they are not going to subsidise the electricity cost forever or seriously ramp up support costs of increased charging infrastructure. Really its not their business, for them its eco-friendly brownie points to have some chargers but they are not there to provide fuel for their employees.
There has been research into contactless charging via embedded cables in the the road network, especially motorways.

Servicing is an issue, in the UK there is a shortage of trained mechanics outside the main dealer networks.
Presumably servicing and MOTs etc. should become less complicated and, in theory, cheaper. Certainly toll-per-mile is likely to replace the traditional road and fuel taxes, probably even before 2030.
The National Grid estimates the 2030 all-EV/hybrid scenario would only increase electricity consumption by 20% so perhaps the generation problem is less than feared.

As to public vs private car usage, a lot has been said about autonomous EVs that could be hired like taxis, bit like a Boris Bike scheme. That might become feasible in the 2030s (I say might as I have little faith in AI ever safely navigating real roads - my car has lane-assist warning but the camera often mistakes a wet join in the tarmac as a line marking or cries to momma and pretends the lens is obscured so it can turn itself, lucky I can decide the line is fictional, what an AI-driven car would do I shudder to think).

I think it is pretty apparent by now that Teslas ultimate goal is cars as a subscription service. Ie you need to go somewhere you just pull up the app and call a car. There are multiple 'features' that are installed in every Tesla, like heated seats, that are locked by software. What is the sense in doing that? Unless they want to do things like selling a luxury package as part of the subscription, and then whatever Tesla pulls up in front will be "your" Tesla with whatever features you are paying for.
 

robunos

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There will always be a limit on workplace charging, they are not going to subsidise the electricity cost forever or seriously ramp up support costs of increased charging infrastructure. Really its not their business, for them its eco-friendly brownie points to have some chargers but they are not there to provide fuel for their employees.

I'm not expecting my employer to provide free 'fuel' to me (probably the best I could hope for is to have the cost deducted from my pay . . . :p ), but rather I meant that as I have to park off the premises, on the street, there is physically no way to charge an EV while I am at work . . .

cheers,
Robin.
 

Foo Fighter

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If you read the press-release it actually all boils down to just been electrified, which basically includes ICE hybrids, so its pretty much the usual "look how green we are" junk designed to get enviro-brownie points.

"Land Rover will continue to offer a range of powertrains, but with a heavy focus on electrification."

Electrification is a nice buzz-phrase which means firms pretend to be going all-electric to the public, but which actually means any ICE/motor hybrids, which all sensible manufacturers had already been concentrating on for a decade or more anyway. JLR fishing for twitter likes basically.

They would be bankrupt if they made ONLY BEV in 4 years as there is virtually no charging infrastructure and nobody could use the things anyway. Will be 20 years until the infrastructure is able to fully support a combination of BEV and ICE vehicles, despite what The Guardian and other news sources like to pretend in "news office land".
Efficiency and reliability gains can be made by electrifying ancillaries, hence the move to such in a lot of mild hybrids. There was a lot of discussion in regards to this when I worked in the automotive industry (back when Australia still had an automotive industry). If anyone doubts the utility of electric drive just look at submarines, everything runs off the battery when submerged and the current standard is no mechanical drive to the propeller for surface running or snorting, the diesels just charge the battery, that is their sole purpose.

I love my piston engines, in particular inline sixes, but fully expect that electric vehicles that out perform my turbo six will be available and affordable in the very near future. I expect they will also be more reliable, cheaper and easier to maintain, well most of the time, I did have a Passat a couple of years ago that took the dealership several months to diagnose a faulty battery even though I said I thought it was the battery when I first took it to them and they assured me it wasn't.
That is why they are often called "Stealerships". Someone has to pay for the shareholders and the fancy glass buildings.
 

Nigelhg

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A big problem, apart from the lack of an infrastructure for charging generally, is that planning permission is cutting the allocation of parking spaces in new build homes and even renovation projects. Expect new builds in the near future to have one or no spaces available. Some new builds already have a practice of a group of parking spaces within an estate but you have to rent them separately to buying the house. This is just money grabbing but reduces the viability of the electric car to the average buyer of personal vehicles.
In the UK by law there must be 1.5 parking spaces per household
 

Nigelhg

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If you read the press-release it actually all boils down to just been electrified, which basically includes ICE hybrids, so its pretty much the usual "look how green we are" junk designed to get enviro-brownie points.

"Land Rover will continue to offer a range of powertrains, but with a heavy focus on electrification."

Electrification is a nice buzz-phrase which means firms pretend to be going all-electric to the public, but which actually means any ICE/motor hybrids, which all sensible manufacturers had already been concentrating on for a decade or more anyway. JLR fishing for twitter likes basically.

They would be bankrupt if they made ONLY BEV in 4 years as there is virtually no charging infrastructure and nobody could use the things anyway. Will be 20 years until the infrastructure is able to fully support a combination of BEV and ICE vehicles, despite what The Guardian and other news sources like to pretend in "news office land".
Efficiency and reliability gains can be made by electrifying ancillaries, hence the move to such in a lot of mild hybrids. There was a lot of discussion in regards to this when I worked in the automotive industry (back when Australia still had an automotive industry). If anyone doubts the utility of electric drive just look at submarines, everything runs off the battery when submerged and the current standard is no mechanical drive to the propeller for surface running or snorting, the diesels just charge the battery, that is their sole purpose.

I love my piston engines, in particular inline sixes, but fully expect that electric vehicles that out perform my turbo six will be available and affordable in the very near future. I expect they will also be more reliable, cheaper and easier to maintain, well most of the time, I did have a Passat a couple of years ago that took the dealership several months to diagnose a faulty battery even though I said I thought it was the battery when I first took it to them and they assured me it wasn't.
It's been a major issue over the past while- battery reliability- in my dealership we are seeing more since lockdown with cars not being driven. Stop start tech is killing batteries- not driving is doing the same The manufacturers are putting onerous testing on dealerships and denying warranty claims until these are met. The battery testing is flawed IMHO- we are seeing battery tests coming back as 'good- recharge' knowing from experience that we'll see them back in a few weeks with a 'battery replace' diagnosis.
 

robunos

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If you read the press-release it actually all boils down to just been electrified, which basically includes ICE hybrids, so its pretty much the usual "look how green we are" junk designed to get enviro-brownie points.

"Land Rover will continue to offer a range of powertrains, but with a heavy focus on electrification."

Electrification is a nice buzz-phrase which means firms pretend to be going all-electric to the public, but which actually means any ICE/motor hybrids, which all sensible manufacturers had already been concentrating on for a decade or more anyway. JLR fishing for twitter likes basically.

They would be bankrupt if they made ONLY BEV in 4 years as there is virtually no charging infrastructure and nobody could use the things anyway. Will be 20 years until the infrastructure is able to fully support a combination of BEV and ICE vehicles, despite what The Guardian and other news sources like to pretend in "news office land".
Efficiency and reliability gains can be made by electrifying ancillaries, hence the move to such in a lot of mild hybrids. There was a lot of discussion in regards to this when I worked in the automotive industry (back when Australia still had an automotive industry). If anyone doubts the utility of electric drive just look at submarines, everything runs off the battery when submerged and the current standard is no mechanical drive to the propeller for surface running or snorting, the diesels just charge the battery, that is their sole purpose.

I love my piston engines, in particular inline sixes, but fully expect that electric vehicles that out perform my turbo six will be available and affordable in the very near future. I expect they will also be more reliable, cheaper and easier to maintain, well most of the time, I did have a Passat a couple of years ago that took the dealership several months to diagnose a faulty battery even though I said I thought it was the battery when I first took it to them and they assured me it wasn't.
It's been a major issue over the past while- battery reliability- in my dealership we are seeing more since lockdown with cars not being driven. Stop start tech is killing batteries- not driving is doing the same The manufacturers are putting onerous testing on dealerships and denying warranty claims until these are met. The battery testing is flawed IMHO- we are seeing battery tests coming back as 'good- recharge' knowing from experience that we'll see them back in a few weeks with a 'battery replace' diagnosis.
In the UK by law there must be 1.5 parking spaces per household

Is this new-builds only, or does it apply to all properties?
I won't use the stop-start on my car, as you said it kills the battery, and I'm not too sure about the starter motor either . . .

cheers,
Robin.
 

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If you read the press-release it actually all boils down to just been electrified, which basically includes ICE hybrids, so its pretty much the usual "look how green we are" junk designed to get enviro-brownie points.

"Land Rover will continue to offer a range of powertrains, but with a heavy focus on electrification."

Electrification is a nice buzz-phrase which means firms pretend to be going all-electric to the public, but which actually means any ICE/motor hybrids, which all sensible manufacturers had already been concentrating on for a decade or more anyway. JLR fishing for twitter likes basically.

They would be bankrupt if they made ONLY BEV in 4 years as there is virtually no charging infrastructure and nobody could use the things anyway. Will be 20 years until the infrastructure is able to fully support a combination of BEV and ICE vehicles, despite what The Guardian and other news sources like to pretend in "news office land".
Efficiency and reliability gains can be made by electrifying ancillaries, hence the move to such in a lot of mild hybrids. There was a lot of discussion in regards to this when I worked in the automotive industry (back when Australia still had an automotive industry). If anyone doubts the utility of electric drive just look at submarines, everything runs off the battery when submerged and the current standard is no mechanical drive to the propeller for surface running or snorting, the diesels just charge the battery, that is their sole purpose.

I love my piston engines, in particular inline sixes, but fully expect that electric vehicles that out perform my turbo six will be available and affordable in the very near future. I expect they will also be more reliable, cheaper and easier to maintain, well most of the time, I did have a Passat a couple of years ago that took the dealership several months to diagnose a faulty battery even though I said I thought it was the battery when I first took it to them and they assured me it wasn't.
It's been a major issue over the past while- battery reliability- in my dealership we are seeing more since lockdown with cars not being driven. Stop start tech is killing batteries- not driving is doing the same The manufacturers are putting onerous testing on dealerships and denying warranty claims until these are met. The battery testing is flawed IMHO- we are seeing battery tests coming back as 'good- recharge' knowing from experience that we'll see them back in a few weeks with a 'battery replace' diagnosis.
The lead in the old battery will be recycled, the 'cost' of that new battery is about £10

Someone's not using the right information to calculate the answer.
 

Nigelhg

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If you read the press-release it actually all boils down to just been electrified, which basically includes ICE hybrids, so its pretty much the usual "look how green we are" junk designed to get enviro-brownie points.

"Land Rover will continue to offer a range of powertrains, but with a heavy focus on electrification."

Electrification is a nice buzz-phrase which means firms pretend to be going all-electric to the public, but which actually means any ICE/motor hybrids, which all sensible manufacturers had already been concentrating on for a decade or more anyway. JLR fishing for twitter likes basically.

They would be bankrupt if they made ONLY BEV in 4 years as there is virtually no charging infrastructure and nobody could use the things anyway. Will be 20 years until the infrastructure is able to fully support a combination of BEV and ICE vehicles, despite what The Guardian and other news sources like to pretend in "news office land".
Efficiency and reliability gains can be made by electrifying ancillaries, hence the move to such in a lot of mild hybrids. There was a lot of discussion in regards to this when I worked in the automotive industry (back when Australia still had an automotive industry). If anyone doubts the utility of electric drive just look at submarines, everything runs off the battery when submerged and the current standard is no mechanical drive to the propeller for surface running or snorting, the diesels just charge the battery, that is their sole purpose.

I love my piston engines, in particular inline sixes, but fully expect that electric vehicles that out perform my turbo six will be available and affordable in the very near future. I expect they will also be more reliable, cheaper and easier to maintain, well most of the time, I did have a Passat a couple of years ago that took the dealership several months to diagnose a faulty battery even though I said I thought it was the battery when I first took it to them and they assured me it wasn't.
It's been a major issue over the past while- battery reliability- in my dealership we are seeing more since lockdown with cars not being driven. Stop start tech is killing batteries- not driving is doing the same The manufacturers are putting onerous testing on dealerships and denying warranty claims until these are met. The battery testing is flawed IMHO- we are seeing battery tests coming back as 'good- recharge' knowing from experience that we'll see them back in a few weeks with a 'battery replace' diagnosis.
The lead in the old battery will be recycled, the 'cost' of that new battery is about £10

Someone's not using the right information to calculate the answer.
Umm- no.... A lot of our ICE cars have 2 batteries total cost around £450 (£350+ £100). If you can buy me batteries for that I'll take 10000. Reality doesn't work like you imagine.
 

Foo Fighter

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A big problem, apart from the lack of an infrastructure for charging generally, is that planning permission is cutting the allocation of parking spaces in new build homes and even renovation projects. Expect new builds in the near future to have one or no spaces available. Some new builds already have a practice of a group of parking spaces within an estate but you have to rent them separately to buying the house. This is just money grabbing but reduces the viability of the electric car to the average buyer of personal vehicles.
In the UK by law there must be 1.5 parking spaces per household
So far but with many councils and as I mentioned new estates where you have zero spaces in front of the house but a car parking area which you can RENT a space in. where does that come into the equation? Many inner city developments have zero spaces too.
 

Nigelhg

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A big problem, apart from the lack of an infrastructure for charging generally, is that planning permission is cutting the allocation of parking spaces in new build homes and even renovation projects. Expect new builds in the near future to have one or no spaces available. Some new builds already have a practice of a group of parking spaces within an estate but you have to rent them separately to buying the house. This is just money grabbing but reduces the viability of the electric car to the average buyer of personal vehicles.
In the UK by law there must be 1.5 parking spaces per household
So far but with many councils and as I mentioned new estates where you have zero spaces in front of the house but a car parking area which you can RENT a space in. where does that come into the equation? Many inner city developments have zero spaces too.
I haven't come across this outside London- can you cite an example of a new development with no car parking?
 

Fluff

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If you read the press-release it actually all boils down to just been electrified, which basically includes ICE hybrids, so its pretty much the usual "look how green we are" junk designed to get enviro-brownie points.

"Land Rover will continue to offer a range of powertrains, but with a heavy focus on electrification."

Electrification is a nice buzz-phrase which means firms pretend to be going all-electric to the public, but which actually means any ICE/motor hybrids, which all sensible manufacturers had already been concentrating on for a decade or more anyway. JLR fishing for twitter likes basically.

They would be bankrupt if they made ONLY BEV in 4 years as there is virtually no charging infrastructure and nobody could use the things anyway. Will be 20 years until the infrastructure is able to fully support a combination of BEV and ICE vehicles, despite what The Guardian and other news sources like to pretend in "news office land".
Efficiency and reliability gains can be made by electrifying ancillaries, hence the move to such in a lot of mild hybrids. There was a lot of discussion in regards to this when I worked in the automotive industry (back when Australia still had an automotive industry). If anyone doubts the utility of electric drive just look at submarines, everything runs off the battery when submerged and the current standard is no mechanical drive to the propeller for surface running or snorting, the diesels just charge the battery, that is their sole purpose.

I love my piston engines, in particular inline sixes, but fully expect that electric vehicles that out perform my turbo six will be available and affordable in the very near future. I expect they will also be more reliable, cheaper and easier to maintain, well most of the time, I did have a Passat a couple of years ago that took the dealership several months to diagnose a faulty battery even though I said I thought it was the battery when I first took it to them and they assured me it wasn't.
It's been a major issue over the past while- battery reliability- in my dealership we are seeing more since lockdown with cars not being driven. Stop start tech is killing batteries- not driving is doing the same The manufacturers are putting onerous testing on dealerships and denying warranty claims until these are met. The battery testing is flawed IMHO- we are seeing battery tests coming back as 'good- recharge' knowing from experience that we'll see them back in a few weeks with a 'battery replace' diagnosis.
The lead in the old battery will be recycled, the 'cost' of that new battery is about £10

Someone's not using the right information to calculate the answer.
Umm- no.... A lot of our ICE cars have 2 batteries total cost around £450 (£350+ £100). If you can buy me batteries for that I'll take 10000. Reality doesn't work like you imagine.
Your talking retail at a car dealer.

I’m not.
 

Nigelhg

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If you read the press-release it actually all boils down to just been electrified, which basically includes ICE hybrids, so its pretty much the usual "look how green we are" junk designed to get enviro-brownie points.

"Land Rover will continue to offer a range of powertrains, but with a heavy focus on electrification."

Electrification is a nice buzz-phrase which means firms pretend to be going all-electric to the public, but which actually means any ICE/motor hybrids, which all sensible manufacturers had already been concentrating on for a decade or more anyway. JLR fishing for twitter likes basically.

They would be bankrupt if they made ONLY BEV in 4 years as there is virtually no charging infrastructure and nobody could use the things anyway. Will be 20 years until the infrastructure is able to fully support a combination of BEV and ICE vehicles, despite what The Guardian and other news sources like to pretend in "news office land".
Efficiency and reliability gains can be made by electrifying ancillaries, hence the move to such in a lot of mild hybrids. There was a lot of discussion in regards to this when I worked in the automotive industry (back when Australia still had an automotive industry). If anyone doubts the utility of electric drive just look at submarines, everything runs off the battery when submerged and the current standard is no mechanical drive to the propeller for surface running or snorting, the diesels just charge the battery, that is their sole purpose.

I love my piston engines, in particular inline sixes, but fully expect that electric vehicles that out perform my turbo six will be available and affordable in the very near future. I expect they will also be more reliable, cheaper and easier to maintain, well most of the time, I did have a Passat a couple of years ago that took the dealership several months to diagnose a faulty battery even though I said I thought it was the battery when I first took it to them and they assured me it wasn't.
It's been a major issue over the past while- battery reliability- in my dealership we are seeing more since lockdown with cars not being driven. Stop start tech is killing batteries- not driving is doing the same The manufacturers are putting onerous testing on dealerships and denying warranty claims until these are met. The battery testing is flawed IMHO- we are seeing battery tests coming back as 'good- recharge' knowing from experience that we'll see them back in a few weeks with a 'battery replace' diagnosis.
The lead in the old battery will be recycled, the 'cost' of that new battery is about £10

Someone's not using the right information to calculate the answer.
Umm- no.... A lot of our ICE cars have 2 batteries total cost around £450 (£350+ £100). If you can buy me batteries for that I'll take 10000. Reality doesn't work like you imagine.
Your talking retail at a car dealer.

I’m not.
Yes- I live in the real world not the imaginary.
 

Fluff

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If you read the press-release it actually all boils down to just been electrified, which basically includes ICE hybrids, so its pretty much the usual "look how green we are" junk designed to get enviro-brownie points.

"Land Rover will continue to offer a range of powertrains, but with a heavy focus on electrification."

Electrification is a nice buzz-phrase which means firms pretend to be going all-electric to the public, but which actually means any ICE/motor hybrids, which all sensible manufacturers had already been concentrating on for a decade or more anyway. JLR fishing for twitter likes basically.

They would be bankrupt if they made ONLY BEV in 4 years as there is virtually no charging infrastructure and nobody could use the things anyway. Will be 20 years until the infrastructure is able to fully support a combination of BEV and ICE vehicles, despite what The Guardian and other news sources like to pretend in "news office land".
Efficiency and reliability gains can be made by electrifying ancillaries, hence the move to such in a lot of mild hybrids. There was a lot of discussion in regards to this when I worked in the automotive industry (back when Australia still had an automotive industry). If anyone doubts the utility of electric drive just look at submarines, everything runs off the battery when submerged and the current standard is no mechanical drive to the propeller for surface running or snorting, the diesels just charge the battery, that is their sole purpose.

I love my piston engines, in particular inline sixes, but fully expect that electric vehicles that out perform my turbo six will be available and affordable in the very near future. I expect they will also be more reliable, cheaper and easier to maintain, well most of the time, I did have a Passat a couple of years ago that took the dealership several months to diagnose a faulty battery even though I said I thought it was the battery when I first took it to them and they assured me it wasn't.
It's been a major issue over the past while- battery reliability- in my dealership we are seeing more since lockdown with cars not being driven. Stop start tech is killing batteries- not driving is doing the same The manufacturers are putting onerous testing on dealerships and denying warranty claims until these are met. The battery testing is flawed IMHO- we are seeing battery tests coming back as 'good- recharge' knowing from experience that we'll see them back in a few weeks with a 'battery replace' diagnosis.
The lead in the old battery will be recycled, the 'cost' of that new battery is about £10

Someone's not using the right information to calculate the answer.
Umm- no.... A lot of our ICE cars have 2 batteries total cost around £450 (£350+ £100). If you can buy me batteries for that I'll take 10000. Reality doesn't work like you imagine.
Your talking retail at a car dealer.

I’m not.
Yes- I live in the real world not the imaginary.
Lol.

you know what 2kg of lead costs?

you think a tyre costs £200?
Tyre costs £30, the first wholesaler makes 100%, the second makes 100% you pay £200.....

Manufacturing costs of anything, are many factors below the retail price.

‘fault finding’ on a battery is not worth the technicians time, at his salary of £20 per hour.

I have some seeds, would you like to buy?
 

Nigelhg

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If you read the press-release it actually all boils down to just been electrified, which basically includes ICE hybrids, so its pretty much the usual "look how green we are" junk designed to get enviro-brownie points.

"Land Rover will continue to offer a range of powertrains, but with a heavy focus on electrification."

Electrification is a nice buzz-phrase which means firms pretend to be going all-electric to the public, but which actually means any ICE/motor hybrids, which all sensible manufacturers had already been concentrating on for a decade or more anyway. JLR fishing for twitter likes basically.

They would be bankrupt if they made ONLY BEV in 4 years as there is virtually no charging infrastructure and nobody could use the things anyway. Will be 20 years until the infrastructure is able to fully support a combination of BEV and ICE vehicles, despite what The Guardian and other news sources like to pretend in "news office land".
Efficiency and reliability gains can be made by electrifying ancillaries, hence the move to such in a lot of mild hybrids. There was a lot of discussion in regards to this when I worked in the automotive industry (back when Australia still had an automotive industry). If anyone doubts the utility of electric drive just look at submarines, everything runs off the battery when submerged and the current standard is no mechanical drive to the propeller for surface running or snorting, the diesels just charge the battery, that is their sole purpose.

I love my piston engines, in particular inline sixes, but fully expect that electric vehicles that out perform my turbo six will be available and affordable in the very near future. I expect they will also be more reliable, cheaper and easier to maintain, well most of the time, I did have a Passat a couple of years ago that took the dealership several months to diagnose a faulty battery even though I said I thought it was the battery when I first took it to them and they assured me it wasn't.
It's been a major issue over the past while- battery reliability- in my dealership we are seeing more since lockdown with cars not being driven. Stop start tech is killing batteries- not driving is doing the same The manufacturers are putting onerous testing on dealerships and denying warranty claims until these are met. The battery testing is flawed IMHO- we are seeing battery tests coming back as 'good- recharge' knowing from experience that we'll see them back in a few weeks with a 'battery replace' diagnosis.
The lead in the old battery will be recycled, the 'cost' of that new battery is about £10

Someone's not using the right information to calculate the answer.
Umm- no.... A lot of our ICE cars have 2 batteries total cost around £450 (£350+ £100). If you can buy me batteries for that I'll take 10000. Reality doesn't work like you imagine.
Your talking retail at a car dealer.

I’m not.
Yes- I live in the real world not the imaginary.
Lol.

you know what 2kg of lead costs?

you think a tyre costs £200?
Tyre costs £30, the first wholesaler makes 100%, the second makes 100% you pay £200.....

Manufacturing costs of anything, are many factors below the retail price.

‘fault finding’ on a battery is not worth the technicians time, at his salary of £20 per hour.

I have some seeds, would you like to buy?
Yes- I understand manufacturing costs- however you have no concept of how this applies in the real world and that of the actual costs involved.
 

Foo Fighter

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A big problem, apart from the lack of an infrastructure for charging generally, is that planning permission is cutting the allocation of parking spaces in new build homes and even renovation projects. Expect new builds in the near future to have one or no spaces available. Some new builds already have a practice of a group of parking spaces within an estate but you have to rent them separately to buying the house. This is just money grabbing but reduces the viability of the electric car to the average buyer of personal vehicles.
In the UK by law there must be 1.5 parking spaces per household
So far but with many councils and as I mentioned new estates where you have zero spaces in front of the house but a car parking area which you can RENT a space in. where does that come into the equation? Many inner city developments have zero spaces too.
I haven't come across this outside London- can you cite an example of a new development with no car parking?
Just keep an eye on local news this comes up[ all the time. The mother of friends of mine moved a couple of years ago and visited two new build sites in the midlands, not major conurbations and both had this lack of car parking on the house block, just separate spaces to rent. Needless to say neither were selected. Both were in the vicinity of Lichfield.
 

Grey Havoc

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Fluff

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this was so obvious, the hybrid is a half horse half camel solution. Best left to die off ASAP. Please dont waste your money!
 

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