Type 31 and Variants - NEWS

I bet Italy would be happy to sell one of its Thaon di Revel class PPAs. Would be perfectly suitable and cheaper used.
 
H_K said:
I bet Italy would be happy to sell one of its Thaon di Revel class PPAs. Would be perfectly suitable and cheaper used.
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As with everything since 2022, rumours about everything but no firm suggestion on anything. The rumour about the Arrowhead for Ireland was the MNP variant from the Polish yard not the 31 for the U.K., but add it to the list of all the other rumours from the helicopter buys to the radar to the Army fleet replacement.

Edited cause my phone did something stupid.
 
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H_K said:
I bet Italy would be happy to sell one of its Thaon di Revel class PPAs. Would be perfectly suitable and cheaper used.
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On the presumption the Light configuration (no Aster) would be adequate for the INS, it could potentially save Italy the cost of reworking either Paolo Thaon di Revel or Francesco Morosini from Light to Full configuration.
 
DWG said:
On the presumption the Light configuration (no Aster) would be adequate for the INS, it could potentially save Italy the cost of reworking either Paolo Thaon di Revel or Francesco Morosini from Light to Full configuration.
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Very doubtful that even if the outright resistance from the various departments are overcome that they NS is looking for something in current service, while manpower recruitment and retention figures are better this year, they need at least 3-4 of similar sustained numbers to really start regenerating, no point in trying to procure another ship right now. Something that's going to take years to build will give them time to onboard enough people.
 
Certainly if a PPA is sold it will not be by the same mechanism as the Egyptian or Indonesian sales - the only ship left, currently fitting out, is *Domenico Millelire* (P 436), a 'Full' configuration ship who's complete Kronos DBR suite will be sorely needed as the Horizon/Orizzonte-class go in for their MLU's. This will reduce the MMI to fielding one modern DDG from mid-2026 to mid-2029.

In any case a PPA Full seems beyond the requirements and capacity of the Irish Naval Service to operate for the foreseeable future. There are a variety of specialist roles effectively absent in the INS that would be required to operate such a vessel.

A PPA Light already in service could be a viable option, but likely not before 2027 - just due to the need to maintain numbers in the OPV force before the PPX start entering service.

Beyond that, though - if the Irish are just looking for an OPV, there are probably cheaper options out there than the PPA - which do have excellent multi-mission capacity with their multi-mission zones, but also are still paying for being FFBNW high-end combat systems.

If the MRCV is truly meant to be capable of defending itself or other vessels, then a PPA substantially more worthwhile option, especially as the PPA Light does not necessarily force you to adopt the more costly and capable Aster missile family. It would be more than possible to fit a PPA with Sea Ceptor or Albatros NG, for example. This would provide credible air and missile defense while still providing a vessel that can deploy both a towed VDS as well as USVs and UUVs that could be used to monitor underwater infrastructure. Or be used for disaster relief and humanitarian missions, along the lines of focus of the prior MRV programme.

Either way, any of these capabilities would require substantial effort on the human side, not to reinforce the lacking manpower of the Irish Naval Service, but also introduce the specialist roles necessary for the operation of more complex systems used for both subsurface operations and air defense.
 
Phoenix_jz said:
Certainly if a PPA is sold it will not be by the same mechanism as the Egyptian or Indonesian sales - the only ship left, currently fitting out, is *Domenico Millelire* (P 436), a 'Full' configuration ship who's complete Kronos DBR suite will be sorely needed as the Horizon/Orizzonte-class go in for their MLU's. This will reduce the MMI to fielding one modern DDG from mid-2026 to mid-2029.

In any case a PPA Full seems beyond the requirements and capacity of the Irish Naval Service to operate for the foreseeable future. There are a variety of specialist roles effectively absent in the INS that would be required to operate such a vessel.

A PPA Light already in service could be a viable option, but likely not before 2027 - just due to the need to maintain numbers in the OPV force before the PPX start entering service.

Beyond that, though - if the Irish are just looking for an OPV, there are probably cheaper options out there than the PPA - which do have excellent multi-mission capacity with their multi-mission zones, but also are still paying for being FFBNW high-end combat systems.

If the MRCV is truly meant to be capable of defending itself or other vessels, then a PPA substantially more worthwhile option, especially as the PPA Light does not necessarily force you to adopt the more costly and capable Aster missile family. It would be more than possible to fit a PPA with Sea Ceptor or Albatros NG, for example. This would provide credible air and missile defense while still providing a vessel that can deploy both a towed VDS as well as USVs and UUVs that could be used to monitor underwater infrastructure. Or be used for disaster relief and humanitarian missions, along the lines of focus of the prior MRV programme.

Either way, any of these capabilities would require substantial effort on the human side, not to reinforce the lacking manpower of the Irish Naval Service, but also introduce the specialist roles necessary for the operation of more complex systems used for both subsurface operations and air defense.
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It’s certainly not an immediately likely issue regardless of what if anything is picked. We know there’s the usual threeway resistance from the departments, and the other two services will likely jump in to the fight as well. As for skill set growths, we know the first CAPTAS 1 will be delivered next year for the P60s, so at least that area will start seeing growth.
 
As an aside, I really hope that the next class of ships is the "G" class. I'd really like to see the name GLOWWORM reused and (possibly) the name GOODENOUGH (after Adm Sir William Goodenough, commander of the 2nd Light Cruiser Squadron at Jutland) also be used.
 
PFJN said:
As an aside, I really hope that the next class of ships is the "G" class. I'd really like to see the name GLOWWORM reused and (possibly) the name GOODENOUGH (after Adm Sir William Goodenough, commander of the 2nd Light Cruiser Squadron at Jutland) also be used.
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Agreed ... Gallant, Greyhound, Gauntlet, Grafton, Griffin ....... all solid names
 
Scott Kenny said:
Must admit, I like the RN alliterative names more than whatever passes for the USN naming scheme these days.
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Agreed. At least there is a new USS Enterprise in the works. But you'd think that the USN would always have a Saratoga .... Yorktown .... Intrepid ... and that's just the carrier names...... That said, I would have REALLY liked the RN carriers to be Ark Royal and Eagle :)
 
r/WarshipPorn - Indonesia’s newest frigate, rumored to be named KRI Balaputradewa 322 [1734 x 1936]

There's no dedicated thread, so here's a post showing the progress on Indonesia's Frigat Merah Putih - also an Arrowhead 140 derivative.
 
'31 by 31' seems slightly more plausible now. This order makes for 12 confirmed ships, with the Poles having an option for a further two, taking us to 14 that are likely to be be built.

Then, the AH140 is in the running for both the Danish and Swedish competition, for which an order of three and five respectively seems plausible. That takes the number to 22. This is still up in the air - we're long past the suggested September deadline for the Danish announcement, whilst the FDI is the frontrunner in Sweden.

From there, the less likely candidates appear. New Zealand are known to be considering at least two ships, though the Mogami seems better placed to take that competition. Chile might be interested in three ships to replace the two Type 23s and one Type 22 in service with their navy, but beyond initial industry engagement there's precious little information there.

From there, the least likely possibility can be entertained - the RN might be permitted to order a few more. Four extra hulls would fulfil that 31 order target.

There's a lot of assumptions and reliance on good luck there though.
 
That's handed over to the RN fir first of class trials, the ship is likely to be doing contractor sea trials first before formally signed over to the Royal Navy. The other ships will be built and launched in this time and will enter service.
First of Class trials always take 3 years as they assess operational use, reliability, maintenance and refits over this time frame.
 
Thorvic said:
That's handed over to the RN fir first of class trials, the ship is likely to be doing contractor sea trials first before formally signed over to the Royal Navy. The other ships will be built and launched in this time and will enter service.
First of Class trials always take 3 years as they assess operational use, reliability, maintenance and refits over this time frame.
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In theory once the first vessel it done the rest will enter service much sooner after sea trials, though in the case of T31 it seems rather ridiculous with its slim fit out
 
Alternatives in context appears to be SSKs which means a trade off in Type 26 numbers with a number of SSKs for ASW operations.

I suspect there is concerns over the unmanned aspects of Type 26 and getting SSKs is a more certain path to increasing those capabilities.

At no point did I suggest they're ditching Type 26. That is part of the new relationship with the UK.
But the trade off in numbers to capability in.a certain timescale is the likely debate.

People obsessing over high end AAW Alternatives seem to miss this.
 
Mallard said:
In theory once the first vessel it done the rest will enter service much sooner after sea trials, though in the case of T31 it seems rather ridiculous with its slim fit out
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Initially it is testing the ship and its systems, but the three year aspect is to access usage and reliability over time and determine maintenance cycles when alongside or in refit for the rest of the class. She will be in front line service along side some of her sisters hips and the first Type 26s
HMS Gkasgow will also be on same 3 year first if class trials.
 

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