Boeing F-47 NGAD (Next Generation Air Dominance) NEWS ONLY

So we know some facts about the Boeing AII-X demonstrator:

- it was rapidly produced in a way that was meant to instill confidence in Boeings ability to produce a fighter
- it generated a lot of power
 
quellish said:
The Boeing AII-X demonstrator went from clean sheet of paper to first flight in about 18 months using production representative methods. This was something Boeing felt was the important to demonstrate

I would not be surprised to see a complete aircraft in 2 years.
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That is seriously impressive speed!

Do you know/can you say what the breakthrough was, as compared to the issues getting the T-7 going?
 
quellish said:
The Boeing AII-X demonstrator went from clean sheet of paper to first flight in about 18 months using production representative methods. This was something Boeing felt was the important to demonstrate

I would not be surprised to see a complete aircraft in 2 years.
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What does "clean sheet" even mean in this context when there's been around a decade of concept phase work beforehand?

I can see something like "psuedo PDR" where you already have an established concept, but then need to apply newly released / finalised requirements to it before passing PDR and flowing into CDR, Manufacture and Assembly. But this breaks if the the changes are too large e.g. you need a new engine, you need a new component like an undercarriage leg designes, built and qual tested, etc.

If they've improved the detailed design flow into manufacture and assembly then I can see a cokplete aircraft in 2 years. But would also expect it to be many off the shelf components inside.

And then there's questions about what software its running
 
Scott Kenny said:
Do you know/can you say what the breakthrough was, as compared to the issues getting the T-7 going?
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T-X was also designed and assembled fairly quickly using MBSE and other digital tools. IIRC it was less than 36 months to get to those first two aircraft and then one of the flew a few months later before the end of 2016. At the time Boeing had a number of initiatives rolled under its 'Black Diamond' effort focused on rapid and low cost design and manufacturing (digital tools, FSDA etc) which I believe it utilized on its LRS-B, T-X and NGAD or related efforts.
 
Training_Dummy said:
So we know some facts about the Boeing AII-X demonstrator:

- it was rapidly produced in a way that was meant to instill confidence in Boeings ability to produce a fighter
- it generated a lot of power
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to add to this we also know it broke multiple world records but we don't know exactly what records they were
 
I think the records were around production or manufacturing timelines, power generation for a fighter size a/c (500kW doesn’t seem as cool as 1mW, to just throw out round numbers) and potentially something like supersonic tailless flight or supercruise, perhaps >M2. But that’s all totally completely speculation so I’ll stop.
 
insidersource said:
That was the Lockheed demonstrator not Boeing.
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No, it was not. At the time Roper made the @record breaking” statement the Lockheed AII-X had not flown and was barely being constructed.

The Lockheed AII-X did not fly until almost 2 years after Roper’s Sept. 2020 statement.
 
quellish said:
No, it was not. At the time Roper made the @record breaking” statement the Lockheed AII-X had not flown and was barely being constructed.

The Lockheed AII-X did not fly until almost 2 years after Roper’s Sept. 2020 statement.
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So it was Boeing and Northrop ?
 
So we are no nearer to what the F-47 looks like, as there could still be changes ? From the patches can someone explain what the `SMO' and `FBC' are please.
 
With what is say by the Secretary of Defense the picture could say nothing on the real F-47.

"“I expect some of the Chinese intel analysts are spending a lot of time looking at this picture,” Meink said. “Good luck.”
 
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If Boeing is going to move even half as quickly as they claim flying plane, presumably a prototype, by 2028) then it seems that the engine might be the bigger bottleneck. Presumably an alternative engine would be used for development, or even initial production batches.

This presumes Boeing is actually that on the ball…I have a hard time believing the company that struggled to turn a 767 into a tanker can follow through on its promises for F-47, but per Quellish their demonstrator aircraft was built in a similar timeframe. Presumably the protype would be similar but more mission representative.
 
I still genuinely do not understand the reason for keeping it all under wraps ? Surely unveiling (at least in part) the demonstrators allegedly flown in 2019 would send a positive message of a program which is going to be the mainstay of the US. next generation combat aircraft ?

The only reason i can think of, is it will have to be something pretty special indeed in comparison with the recent designs coming out of the PRC.
 
lancer21 said:
Or something rather pedestrian/conventional/not dissimilar enough in comparison.
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Why would that make any difference at all? It's not like they can somehow get it into service without showing it.
 
lancer21 said:
Or something rather pedestrian/conventional/not dissimilar enough in comparison.
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Wouldn't that make it less reasonable to not reveal it?

A dick measuring contest doesn't make for a good reason to not reveal it now especially if it's nothing drastically different than what the Chinese revealed. They will have to reveal it anyway down the line. If it looks similar to what the Chinese revealed, you aren't escaping that just by revealing it further down the line. Might I also add that if public appearance was something the USAF was concerned about... why not just cover the canards on the damn plane as well? Then you wouldn't have a bunch of idiots (myself included) complaining about how "canards are less advanced form of flight controls". Besides, plenty of other more "pedestrian and non-dissimilar" stuff in relation to Chinese weapons have already been revealed and it would make zero sense not to do the same just because it's "not dissimilar enough".

I don't think there's some super secret alien tech in there that needs hiding. Instead, its probably the inferences you can make about the plane and how it'll be used once you know its size and features. Assuming the unlikely case that Chinese intelligence hasn't already gotten their grubby little fingers on it, then it'll at least keep them guessing.
 
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TsrJoe said:
I still genuinely do not understand the reason for keeping it all under wraps ? Surely unveiling (at least in part) the demonstrators allegedly flown in 2019 would send a positive message of a program which is going to be the mainstay of the US. next generation combat aircraft ?

The only reason i can think of, is it will have to be something pretty special indeed in comparison with the recent designs coming out of the PRC.
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Show me the design, and based on the expected performance of the engines I can now figure out what it's performance will be and begin working on systems to counter it. The longer we wait to unveil it, the less time our enemies have to counter it. It's really that simple.
 
TsrJoe said:
I still genuinely do not understand the reason for keeping it all under wraps ? Surely unveiling (at least in part) the demonstrators allegedly flown in 2019 would send a positive message of a program which is going to be the mainstay of the US. next generation combat aircraft ?

The only reason i can think of, is it will have to be something pretty special indeed in comparison with the recent designs coming out of the PRC.
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USAF just seems to be secretive these days. Look how long it took to see the AIM-260 renders, and we still have not seen a photo. And its layout seems rather conventional in the renders.
 
16_incher said:
Not too sure where to put this but since it is going to be f-47’s engine:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1970499294613430658
View: https://x.com/rtx_news/status/1970499294613430658?s=46
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JV Venable and Heather Penny had a discussion with Steve Russell from GE. The key takeaway regarding NGAP and F-47 was that if they kept a lot of the components the same and the main task was on resizing the engine it would not be a "four to five year" timeline for development. That puts us in the ballpark of first flight in 2028.

View: https://youtu.be/OzoszohUUyo?si=INvXcDQow4cGNXpR


Previous there was a Steve Trimble article talking an engine being ready in 2025. There was also budget information that showed R&D funding declining for NGAP - indicating a transition to production.

https://aviationweek.com/defense/bu...worthy-sixth-generation-fighter-engines-ready

More recently there was talk about a two year delay in NGAP. So who knows. Were they counting on NGAP being ready for the first flight? Or was there a contingency of using an interim engine. If the latter is the case, how does that impact the F-47s performance? Speed and Range.

https://breakingdefense.com/2025/07/air-force-sees-over-two-year-delay-for-next-gen-engines/
 
Does first flight of a prototype or even EMD airframe absolutely require the final engines, though?

I'd think that testing out the basic flight laws, anything subsonic, would not require NGAP.
 

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