David's Sling

http://missiledefenseadvocacy.org/alert/successful-davids-sling-missile-intercept-paves-way-for-deployment-in-israel/

Everyone should sign up to get free reports and missile defense news to your inbox great site.
 
DSE said:
bobbymike said:
Everyone should sign up to get free reports and missile defense news to your inbox great site.
Click to expand...

Don't take this the wrong way, with all due respect there are those of us which truly prefer the "pull model" for info and abhor the "push model". That's why I come HERE!
Click to expand...

Oh that's fine but I check so many defense and tech websites I find it saves time to get information sent to me when the service is offerred.
 
https://www.defmin.fi/en/topical/pr...tem_for_the_finnish_defence_forces.13506.news
05.04.2023 13:58
New Long-Range Air Defence System for the Finnish Defence Forces
The Ministry of Defence has authorised the Finnish Defence Forces to procure the David’s Sling system as the next long-range air defence system of Finland. Rafael Advanced Defense Systems (Israel) will deliver the system. The value of the procurement without value added tax is approximately 316 million euros.
The David’s Sling system will extend the operational range of Finland’s ground-based air defence capabilities significantly. The minimum flight altitude requirement of the system was set at 15 000 meters in the request for quotation.

- This acquisition will create a new capability for the Finnish Defence Forces to intercept targets at high altitude. At the same time we are continuing the ambitious and long-term development of Finland’s defence capability in a new security environment, Minister of Defence Antti Kaikkonen said.

The procurement consists of a main contract worth approximately 213 million euros excluding value added tax and the immediate exercise of options linked to the main contract worth 103 million euros excluding value added tax. The contract includes further options worth 216 million euros excluding value added tax. The possible exercise of these options requires a separate decision.

The procurement contract will include a separate part between the Israel Ministry of Defence and the Ministry of Defence of Finland to ensure the security of supply of the system. The arrangement will ensure the availability of critical system components in all security situations.

The David’s Sling system is a long-range air defence system jointly developed by Israel and the United States. The sale of the system to Finland will require a sales release by the United States Government.

Finnish industry, together with Rafael and Raytheon, will participate in the integration of the system and in the planning and equipping of the command and control elements.
Click to expand...
 
Grabbed this from the AIM-260 discussion:

Seragina said:
That said I think a 3-pulse is possible seeing how the Stunner missile has been around for a while and having the same frame size. Also there had been some cooperation on a derivative with the SkyCeptor. Israel has also been working on an air-launched version for a while.
I do agree thrust throttling is a bit to early in developement but seeing how gas generators are now being used by many new coming designs for vector thrust. And the AIM-260 seems to be using it in the rear. They both would tie in well with each other by combining the gas generation section. This would make the combined design more complex, though.
Click to expand...
How is the Stunner doing the 3-pulse motor?

I am aware of Boost+Sustain+Terminal Boost, but that's not usually described as 3-pulse.
 
Last edited:
Big_Zukini said:
What's a 3 pulse then?
Click to expand...
I dunno.

Boost+Sustain is not described as Dual-Pulse, usually because Boost+Sustain has no pause between the high-impulse boost and the slower-burning sustain. IIRC the grain changes surface area as it burns and goes from lots of area to a relatively low and more or less constant area.
 
Looks like Sky Sting is the A2A version with AIM120 head (without EO).

There isn't a lot being said but given the available information it's sufficient.
Anything more than dual-pulse is referred to as multi-pulse for convenient. (It's partially a chemistry thing.)
I'm assuming the booster gets it to M6. From here the 1st pulse accelerates it to M7 and then 2nd pulse to M7.5.
After this it coasts. The last pulse is for terminal acceleration & maneuvering.
 
Seragina said:
Looks like Sky Sting is the A2A version with AIM120 head (without EO).

There isn't a lot being said but given the available information it's sufficient.
Anything more than dual-pulse is referred to as multi-pulse for convenient. (It's partially a chemistry thing.)
I'm assuming the booster gets it to M6. From here the 1st pulse accelerates it to M7 and then 2nd pulse to M7.5.
After this it coasts. The last pulse is for terminal acceleration & maneuvering.
Click to expand...
If it is an ABM missile, why would it 'coast'?
Wouldn't it need a 2nd pulse (before terminal) to divert more effectively in case of target maneuver?
 
If it were in space energy management wouldn't matter in theory for range but this missile clearly remains within the atmosphere (up to ~70km) so slow burn, coasting and fins matter.
I'm guessing flight time to max range is somewhere between 60 to 170 seconds. Even though I think 1st & 2nd pulse are slow burning it's unlikely to last that long in total (including booster). Unless they only serve to keep speed loss low.

A simulation should give more insight. From what I see the booster has about 1.5x as much fuel as the motor and should have at least ~2.1+++ the thrust. Fuel fraction is about 60% and 80%.
 
Scott Kenny said:
I dunno.

Boost+Sustain is not described as Dual-Pulse, usually because Boost+Sustain has no pause between the high-impulse boost and the slower-burning sustain. IIRC the grain changes surface area as it burns and goes from lots of area to a relatively low and more or less constant area.
Click to expand...

I was about to answer that David's was two stages, so booster + dual pulse. Then I saw @Seragina 's response below.

Seragina said:
Looks like Sky Sting is the A2A version with AIM120 head (without EO).

There isn't a lot being said but given the available information it's sufficient.
Anything more than dual-pulse is referred to as multi-pulse for convenient. (It's partially a chemistry thing.)
I'm assuming the booster gets it to M6. From here the 1st pulse accelerates it to M7 and then 2nd pulse to M7.5.
After this it coasts. The last pulse is for terminal acceleration & maneuvering.
Click to expand...
That's just scary, why can't we put these in our Patriot batteries, especially since we helped fund it? But I digress... Any idea why they moved away from the dual seeker of the Stunner to Sky Sting for A2A?
 
mkellytx said:
That's just scary, why can't we put these in our Patriot batteries, especially since we helped fund it? But I digress... Any idea why they moved away from the dual seeker of the Stunner to Sky Sting for A2A?
Click to expand...
I asume it came down to differences in requirements and missile programming goals that cooperation stopped for now.

A fighter is much slower than a ballistic missile so there's no need for additional (more precise) optical targeting to guide it in.
This makes it simpler, cheaper, lighter etc.
According to the press the 2nd pulse on the A2A Sky Sting version is a sustainer. The motor appears to be the same to me (same motor length as on the AIM120D, too). Just 2mm more in diameter. With a range of 250 km I'm guessing it can reach M4.5-5. Nothing is said about a warhead or hit-to-kill like the original stunner. Since nothing seems to have changed in the section length between motor and nose cone... I'm guessing they believe its terminal speed is sufficiently high enough to get a sure hit-to-kill all the time.
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom