KAI KF-21 Boramae (KFX Korean Indigenous Fighter program)

Seragina said:
I bet this only motivates them more to enter engine development themselves.
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No doubt, in the interim if South Korea accepts R&Rs offer they could offer as a short-term interim solution a version of the EJ200 adapted to the KF-21.
 
helmutkohl said:
www.armyrecognition.com

UK tries to help South Korea avoid US veto on KF-21 export by replacing F414 engine with British one

UK tries to help South Korea avoid US veto on KF-21 export by replacing F414 engine with British one
www.armyrecognition.com www.armyrecognition.com
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Hrm. EJ200 is a good bit smaller in diameter than the F414. 300lbs lighter, too.

They'd lose a bit of afterburner power (EJ is only 20k, F414 is 22k), but gain a little bit of fuel economy. The EJ200 burns ~21-23g/kN-sec, while the F414 burns 23.9g/kN-sec.

It actually makes me wonder if SK is going to buy into any RR 3-stream tech?
 
helmutkohl said:
www.armyrecognition.com

UK tries to help South Korea avoid US veto on KF-21 export by replacing F414 engine with British one

UK tries to help South Korea avoid US veto on KF-21 export by replacing F414 engine with British one
www.armyrecognition.com www.armyrecognition.com
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Very interesting development, wouldn't hurt European strategic flexibility either to have such a version of the KF-21 available or perhaps even license built here. South Korea must also be weighing next steps (6th gen, if you will) and since this seems to be less about the EJ200 and more about co-development of a new engine then this raises the prospect of some kind of a GCAP involvement as well.
 
UpForce said:
Very interesting development, wouldn't hurt European strategic flexibility either to have such a version of the KF-21 available or perhaps even license built here. South Korea must also be weighing next steps (6th gen, if you will) and since this seems to be less about the EJ200 and more about co-development of a new engine then this raises the prospect of some kind of a GCAP involvement as well.
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Why should the ROK get involved in a politically complicated international project when it is demonstrating exemplary capability in independent development? And... Korea with Japan?

The Koreans know very well that by evolving the KF-21 (or through subsequent development), they can, if they manage to keep up, reach the technological level of GCAP on their own after 2040.

Let's keep in mind that the KF-21 is a more advanced aircraft product than the UK, Italy or Japan have been able to develop to date. The engine issue remains to be resolved, but Hanhwa has a clear goal.
 
"Moving Forward Together"

- Via Kemhan RI (Indonesian MoD)
 

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1350 KF-21 flight hours as of June 2nd 2025.

That's a pace of ~100 flight hours per prototype per year (roughly) and probably just over half way through the flight test program (1000th flight was in November 2024, with 2,200 test flights planned, so at current pace it will take until ~early/mid 2027 to complete flight testing).

biz.chosun.com

KAI achieves 10,000 accident-free flight test hours for fixed-wing aircraft

KAI achieves 10,000 accident-free flight test hours for fixed-wing aircraft
biz.chosun.com biz.chosun.com
 
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According to the text at 7:43 in the video:

A test to verify the aircraft's resistance to loss of control and its ability to recover from a loss of control. The KF-21 successfully flew to an altitude of over 38,000 feet while maintaining a climb angle of 70 degrees, exceeding the limit of 50 degrees, and reached a low speed of about 20 knots before returning to a stable control state.

This part seems to be referring to a previously conducted test.
 
TomcatViP said:
Regarding the AoA test, do I understand correctly that max AoA is 50degree?
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synetic said:
According to the text at 7:43 in the video:

A test to verify the aircraft's resistance to loss of control and its ability to recover from a loss of control. The KF-21 successfully flew to an altitude of over 38,000 feet while maintaining a climb angle of 70 degrees, exceeding the limit of 50 degrees, and reached a low speed of about 20 knots before returning to a stable control state.

This part seems to be referring to a previously conducted test.
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It appears that the 70° AOA was specified by the video creator rather than given by the interviewed pilot.
1752838459283.png
 
TylrrTylrr said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1951999533212140006
View: https://x.com/defence_blog/status/1951999533212140006?s=46


I’m not sure whether this is confirmed but defence blog is pretty reputable. Curious to see if they’ll purchase the current block, block 2 or wait for block 3 with the internal bomb bays.
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I read an article yesterday, but already forgot where I found it, where it stated that block 2 is now going to be the one with the IWB.
But that article makes it seem like they want the current gen 4.5 version.
 
helmutkohl said:
I read an article yesterday, but already forgot where I found it, where it stated that block 2 is now going to be the one with the IWB.
But that article makes it seem like they want the current gen 4.5 version.
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After that last encounter with Pakistan they seem desperate to switch up quickly, not to mention their AMCA project seems like it’s going to take another decade assuming it even comes to fruition.
 
TylrrTylrr said:
After that last encounter with Pakistan they seem desperate to switch up quickly, not to mention their AMCA project seems like it’s going to take another decade assuming it even comes to fruition.
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The purchase of KF-21 could also help them with AMCA development. The KF-21 is in large parts a low observable design penned by Lockheed Martin (in cooperation with KAI). If tech transfer can be agreed on, something the Koreans have always been eager to offer alongside local manufacturing, as well as being something the Indians repeatedly demanded from other vendors. Then they may learn many valuable things that can bring their domestic efforts further along.

If these rumors are true, it's a very fascinating development and would be a big step forward for KAI, the KF-21 and the Indian Air Force.
 
EmoBirb said:
The purchase of KF-21 could also help them with AMCA development. The KF-21 is in large parts a low observable design penned by Lockheed Martin (in cooperation with KAI). If tech transfer can be agreed on, something the Koreans have always been eager to offer alongside local manufacturing, as well as being something the Indians repeatedly demanded from other vendors. Then they may learn many valuable things that can bring their domestic efforts further along.

If these rumors are true, it's a very fascinating development and would be a big step forward for KAI, the KF-21 and the Indian Air Force.
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I wonder if this could affect future Rafale purchases, I’m not saying either aircraft is fully superior to another but having a LO airframe makes all the difference these days. On the point of tech transfer, India’s found it hard enough to secure engines for their Tejas fighters and the KF21 also uses American engines so
 
TylrrTylrr said:
I wonder if this could affect future Rafale purchases, I’m not saying either aircraft is fully superior to another but having a LO airframe makes all the difference these days. On the point of tech transfer, India’s found it hard enough to secure engines for their Tejas fighters and the KF21 also uses American engines so
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I don't think Rafale and KF-21 directly compete, in a sense they complement each other and share missiles actually. The engine will be an issue though, KF-21 with an indigenous or European engine would be much more attractive on the export market imo.

But this will be another step into clusterfucking the Indian military aviation. They have to maintain, train and operate on MiG-29s, Su-30s, Tejas, Rafale and KF-21. That's a mix-mash of many vastly different aircraft. Imo, they might as well buy more Rafales, retire the 29s and have the Rafale and Su-30 carry the AF and Navy being served with the Rafale.

But nobody gives a fuck about logistics, the ground crews and the poor people who have to organize that. The Indians are building an incoherent ace combat air force like Indonesia or Qatar with this one, lol.

Alternatively just ditch the fucking Tejas, get T-50s and FA-50s, get KF-21 (perhaps both with tech transfer and locally produced, step by step introduce indigenous systems) and slowly ditch the Russian jets and Rafales in the AF and hand the Navy something Rafale Ms or approach KAI about funding a naval KF-21N.

Either way, no matter what they buy, if they don't improve their training, their tactics and have the necessary supporting assets, then even the fanciest of aircraft will get nuked by a single engine export fighter with Chinese missiles.
 
EmoBirb said:
The purchase of KF-21 could also help them with AMCA development. The KF-21 is in large parts a low observable design penned by Lockheed Martin (in cooperation with KAI). If tech transfer can be agreed on, something the Koreans have always been eager to offer alongside local manufacturing, as well as being something the Indians repeatedly demanded from other vendors. Then they may learn many valuable things that can bring their domestic efforts further along.

If these rumors are true, it's a very fascinating development and would be a big step forward for KAI, the KF-21 and the Indian Air Force.
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an unpopular opinion I have is that the KF-21 fits a lot of India's needs.
Its at an advance stage of development and entered production. India can get the first versions earlier as there's not that many export customers yet (just a reduced Indonesia buy and involvement).
While it's too late for India to become fully involved, there's still room for some involvement as they could take over more of Indonesia's share and fund the fully stealth version.
there's also mutual interest in STOBAR carrier type, which would make more economic sense in terms of scale, than a small batch of TEDBF whose only customer is the IN.
the KF-21 shares the same engine as the newer Tejas variants, and uses some of the same missiles as Rafale.

The downside is that a KF-21 buy will affect Rafale, TEDBF, and likely AMCA. But given HAL's track record and capacity issues, it might be time to bite the bullet and try to work out a KF-21 deal that is similar to the Jaguar at best (nearly the full production line). Not sure if KAI will agree to HAL exporting it as their own though. HAL should focus instead on other projects such as CCAs.
 
EmoBirb said:
I don't think Rafale and KF-21 directly compete, in a sense they complement each other and share missiles actually. The engine will be an issue though, KF-21 with an indigenous or European engine would be much more attractive on the export market imo.

But this will be another step into clusterfucking the Indian military aviation. They have to maintain, train and operate on MiG-29s, Su-30s, Tejas, Rafale and KF-21. That's a mix-mash of many vastly different aircraft. Imo, they might as well buy more Rafales, retire the 29s and have the Rafale and Su-30 carry the AF and Navy being served with the Rafale.

But nobody gives a fuck about logistics, the ground crews and the poor people who have to organize that. The Indians are building an incoherent ace combat air force like Indonesia or Qatar with this one, lol.

Alternatively just ditch the fucking Tejas, get T-50s and FA-50s, get KF-21 (perhaps both with tech transfer and locally produced, step by step introduce indigenous systems) and slowly ditch the Russian jets and Rafales in the AF and hand the Navy something Rafale Ms or approach KAI about funding a naval KF-21N.

Either way, no matter what they buy, if they don't improve their training, their tactics and have the necessary supporting assets, then even the fanciest of aircraft will get nuked by a single engine export fighter with Chinese missiles.
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Agreed, they complement eachother but whether they compete depends on the block you’re referring to. I think Hanwha are working on an engine, do you think India would be interested in using their own engine? (When they have one of course). Funny enough India would be a more reliable partner than Indonesia when it comes to payments.

They may as well scrap the Migs asap, they are outdated on all accounts. In terms of weapons, I’m curious to see what level of weapons they’ll integrate considering Korea has a bunch of them in development. As cool as a naval KF would be they’d have to find the R&D themselves since the ROKN is no longer interested in manned naval fighters.

Cancelling the Tejas and replacing it with Golden eagles would finish the Indian industry and there’s no chance the AMCA would be built which would hit their national pride hard (I doubt Modi is interested in that). We need to remember that the tender issued was for an interim purchase but Lord knows if it’ll remain interim with the way the worlds going.

Yeah the training and tactics will remain unaffected either way. I think they need a complete restructure of their force or something.
 
helmutkohl said:
The downside is that a KF-21 buy will affect Rafale, TEDBF, and likely AMCA. But given HAL's track record and capacity issues, it might be time to bite the bullet and try to work out a KF-21 deal that is similar to the Jaguar at best (nearly the full production line). Not sure if KAI will agree to HAL exporting it as their own though. HAL should focus instead on other projects such as CCAs.
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I think KF-21 with tech transfer and local assembly would offer a lot of know how that will bring their AMCA project along.

I agree on all you said on the KF-21 though, it's a good deal. I used to view it very critically when it was announced, thinking there wouldn't be much of a market. But by now I think the exact opposite, I think in Asia (SEA, South Asia and West Asia) there's plenty of export potential. And the Koreans are just generally very open for good deals, local assembly, transfer of IP etc.
 
@TylrrTylrr yeah I meant indigenous Korean engines. If the Indians had an adequate engine I imagine they'd like to use it, of course. But I have more confidence in the Korean industry, to be totally honest. The American engines in the KF-21 hold its export potential back imo, as many likely customers aren't keen on having their engine supply cut because Washington feels like it. So in my eyes that's arguably more important than getting the IWBs integrated, with regards to what should happen first.
TylrrTylrr said:
Funny enough India would be a more reliable partner than Indonesia when it comes to payments.
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Funnily enough I just discussed this with a friend of mine a couple minutes ago. It may be better for all parties, given that it would kill incentive for Indonesia to adopt yet another aircraft, lol.
 
EmoBirb said:
But this will be another step into clusterfucking the Indian military aviation. They have to maintain, train and operate on MiG-29s, Su-30s, Tejas, Rafale and KF-21. That's a mix-mash of many vastly different aircraft. Imo, they might as well buy more Rafales, retire the 29s and have the Rafale and Su-30 carry the AF and Navy being served with the Rafale.
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You forgot the Mirages and Jaguars.

As far as engines, India is allegedly starting to get the Kaveri working, and are planning to use a dry variant to power some new combat drones. But it's not in the same class as the F414.

Last I heard the Koreans are at that step with far less time spent, so yeah, your faith is pretty well-founded.
 
EmoBirb said:
I think KF-21 with tech transfer and local assembly would offer a lot of know how that will bring their AMCA project along.

I agree on all you said on the KF-21 though, it's a good deal. I used to view it very critically when it was announced, thinking there wouldn't be much of a market. But by now I think the exact opposite, I think in Asia (SEA, South Asia and West Asia) there's plenty of export potential. And the Koreans are just generally very open for good deals, local assembly, transfer of IP etc.
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the unfortunate thing is, AMCA, KFX, and TFX all started their concept designs around the same time in the late 2000s/early 2010s.
the latter two are now flying their prototypes. KFX (KF-21) is now entering production while TFX (Kaan) is gaining export interest.
Had HAL kept to their schedules, an AMCA prototype would be flying by now and possibly appeal to countries that want an alternative to the F-35 or Su-57.
 
helmutkohl said:
the unfortunate thing is, AMCA, KFX, and TFX all started their concept designs around the same time in the late 2000s/early 2010s.
the latter two are now flying their prototypes. KFX (KF-21) is now entering production while TFX (Kaan) is gaining export interest.
Had HAL kept to their schedules, an AMCA prototype would be flying by now and possibly appeal to countries that want an alternative to the F-35 or Su-57.
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HAL cant develop that plane.. HAL cant even develop the tejas.. 30 years late and that pos still aint flying like it should.. now you really think india can pull of a 5,5 gen fighter?
 
Geo said:
BTW a debate has developed here over an article that cites as a source "according to Indian defense media"...
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My bad guys, either way I kinda still feel like it could be a good idea for them
 
Deltafan said:
idrw.org

No Interest from IAF in South Korea’s KF-21 Fighter Jet, Say Indian Officials - Indian Defence Research Wing

SOURCE: IDRW.ORG A recent report published by Defence-Blog.com on August 1 claimed that India may be evaluating South Korea’s KF-21 Boramae fighter jet for potential acquisition as part of its broader search for modern 4.5- and 5th-generation fighters. The article suggested that the Indian Air...
idrw.org idrw.org
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Yeah, it makes no sense, aside from the commonality of specific equipment like the Meteors and the engines.

You essentially have to pay the same price as the F-35 but for less capability. (unless their hypothetical interest lies in the Block 20 aircraft, and if the B20 comes with more advanced, multi-role-enabling sensors, such as an EOTS equivalent, a GaN on SiC radar, etc.)
 
snne said:
Yeah, it makes no sense, aside from the commonality of specific equipment like the Meteors and the engines.

You essentially have to pay the same price as the F-35 but for less capability. (unless their hypothetical interest lies in the Block 20 aircraft, and if the B20 comes with more advanced, multi-role-enabling sensors, such as an EOTS equivalent, a GaN on SiC radar, etc.)
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Likely more control over the platform though compared to F-35 and far more chance of being able to integrate Indian weapons onto the KF-21 which would be an important factor for India.
 

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