Propellantless Triangular Spacecraft

[Adler]

A 2004 patent by John St. Clair describes a triangular spacecraft that achieves motion in vacuum without expelling mass (somehow). The vehicle is supposed to achieve both lift and propulsion through the use of magnetic fields as stated in the document. The patent appears to be legitimate, so I'm posting it here without further comment. Rest is for you to judge and decide.

Spacecraft Diagram:


PDF file of the patent:

 

[Orionblamblam]

I would be glad if anyone can explain the physics behind it.

Magic.

Here's a useful tip: if the Amazing World Changing Device was patented decades ago and the world hasn't changed... it probably didn't work.

 

[sublight_]

My preemptive apologies if this belongs in the theoretical/fake project thread, but it appears to me to be a real concept so I am posting it here. Mods will move the post if need be.

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A 2004 patent by John St. Clair describes a triangular spacecraft that achieves motion in vacuum without expelling mass. The vehicle achieves both lift and propulsion (leading me to assume it could have had SSTO capabilities) through the use of magnetic fields. How exactly is beyond me, and I would be glad if anyone can explain the physics behind it. The patent and diagrams would be attached below.

Spacecraft Diagram:
View attachment 772755View attachment 772756View attachment 772757

PDF file of the patent:

Interesting note. People keep reporting seeing a craft that looks extremely close to this diagram since the late 90's.

Second note. user Orionblamblam has been methodically trolling anyone who shows up on our door asking about a craft resembling one in the diagram since I showed up in 2010. That is a lot of effort for somebody who claims not to give a crap.

 

[Brett Davidson]

Second note. user Orionblamblam has been methodically trolling anyone who shows up on our door asking about a craft resembling one in the diagram since I showed up in 2010. That is a lot of effort for somebody who claims not to give a crap.

The only motive is psychological. I recommend the ignore button. I'm sceptical of black triangles myself but in any case, life's too short to waste with trolls.

 

[Pixelbrick]

Where do you put the unobtanium 115 in?

 

[Andreas Parsch]

A 2004 patent by John St. Clair describes a triangular spacecraft that achieves motion in vacuum without expelling mass. [...]
How exactly is beyond me, and I would be glad if anyone can explain the physics behind it.

Since the basic premise (acceleration in vacuum w/o expelling mass) outright contradicts the extremely well-confirmed law of conservation of momentum, I seriously doubt that you can find a physicist to explain how it works. Instead, the physicist will probably tell you that this is what's commonly referred to as "crackpot physics" .

 

[Byeman]

Second note. user Orionblamblam has been methodically trolling anyone who shows up on our door asking about a craft resembling one in the diagram since I showed up in 2010. That is a lot of effort for somebody who claims not to give a crap.

Because it frustrating to see the same nonsense/misinformation over and over.

 

[sublight_]

Irregardless of "crackpot physics" the craft in those diagrams have been seen.

 

[Dilandu]

If I understood it correctly, author basically tried to create a warp drive out of some combination of electromagnetic & electrostatic charges:

This combination of fields produces a spacetime
curvature as determined by Einstein's General Theory of
Relativity. The traveling electric field has an amplitude in
the vertical z-direction and travels in the X-direction

 

[yeetmahboi]

I'd be thrilled for someone to explain the science behind this, uhm, electromagnetic manipulation thingy. We have any experts?

 

[Byeman]

Irregardless of "crackpot physics" the craft in those diagrams have been seen.

People think they saw a triangular craft.

 

[Byeman]

I'd be thrilled for someone to explain the science behind this, uhm, electromagnetic manipulation thingy. We have any experts?

there is no science to explain.

 

[Dilandu]

I'd be thrilled for someone to explain the science behind this, uhm, electromagnetic manipulation thingy. We have any experts?

Apparently some form of electrogravitics, i.e. the idea (in range from "highly dubious" to "outright pseudoscientific" kind of ideas) that you could manipulate gravity by electromagnetic fields.

P.S. About the author of the patent, the John St. Clair - seems that he was a pretty certified crackpot, with numerous "patent" on such systems as "chi energy amplifier" or "walking through wall training system"

 

[tychosis]

P.S. About the author of the patent, the John St. Clair - seems that he was a pretty certified crackpot, with numerous "patent" on such systems as "chi energy amplifier" or "walking through wall training system"

Damn, I've been trying (and failing) to walk through walls for years. I guess I have insufficient training.

 

[Dilandu]

Damn, I've been trying (and failing) to walk through walls for years. I guess I have insufficient training.

You just need a (quote from patent) hyperspace torque generator which comprises a flat bifilar magnetic bucking field electrical coil, crystal ball, lever arm and frequency generator for producing a linear flow of hyperspace energy at right angles to a rotating flow of astral chakra energy. Apparently this handy thingamabob could open the wormhole to suck the chunk of low-density slow-speed-of-light astral universe into our own 4D universe, and thus create a local bubble for penetrating the walls.

 

[tychosis]

You just need a (quote from patent) hyperspace torque generator which comprises a flat bifilar magnetic bucking field electrical coil, crystal ball, lever arm and frequency generator for producing a linear flow of hyperspace energy at right angles to a rotating flow of astral chakra energy.

I have a pottery wheel and a guitar amp, will those work?

 

[yeetmahboi]

crystal ball

ROFTLMAO. Witchcraft and Naruto, what gives?

 

[Dilandu]

I have a pottery wheel and a guitar amp, will those work?

Alas, no, didn't work without crystal ball( I studies the description, the ball is crucial for creating a hyperfield.

 

[Dilandu]

ROFTLMAO. Witchcraft and Naruto, what gives?

I also like the cavitating oil hyperspace spaceship:

 

[sublight_]

People think they saw a triangular craft.

With the giant concave thing on the bottom.

 

[Orionblamblam]

The only motive is psychological.

Indeed. A deep dislike of bullshit and bullshit artists.

If that offends you, look inwards.

 

[Orionblamblam]

Second note. user Orionblamblam has been methodically trolling anyone who shows up on our door asking about a craft resembling one in the diagram since I showed up in 2010. That is a lot of effort for somebody who claims not to give a crap.

You put more effort into your little screed against me than I did in my post.

 

[Dilandu]

With the giant concave thing on the bottom.

It's a hyperspace oil storage)

 

[dannydale]

electrogravitics

That's a word I haven't seen in a long time.

 

[Dilandu]

That's a word I haven't seen in a long time.

It became rather obscure now, but in 2000s it was all rage, with hundreds of crackpots claiming that they invented some way to control gravity fields with electromagnetic forces.

 

[Arjen]

"walking through wall training system"

There was a successful demonstration of that in a traditional Japanese house.

 

[Dilandu]

There was a successful demonstration of that in a traditional Japanese house.

A wonders of Japanese technology! Instead of making human body capable of walking through wall, they created a wall through which any human could walk!

 

[dannydale]

Yeah, that was around Bob Lazar's time. I remember all that junk with Element 115 being made into what for all the world look like sets of warp coils in cute little nacelles right out of Star Trek, even including the "warp coils" having an adorable 'copper' color if my memory's not wildly off. His "Sport Model' was alleged to have three of these little 'nacelles' on hinges in a triangle configuration.

Neat story, but it really reads Hollywood now that I retell it here!

 

[DWG]

Since the basic premise (acceleration in vacuum w/o expelling mass) outright contradicts the extremely well-confirmed law of conservation of momentum

While I'm firmly with the skeptics here, we do have to remember there are a whole range of space* propulsion systems that don't depend on mass expulsion: solar sails, magnetic sails, etc.

These don't expel mass, but do preserve momentum because they're either bouncing incoming mass, or manipulating the momentum of the entire spacecraft/magnetic field/planetary system as a whole.

For the non-skeptics, it's important to remember that just getting a patent doesn't mean your idea will work, patent clerks aren't usually physicists, all they're looking for is a well-formed patent with the right legalistic wording.

* With the emphasis on "space"! You're not getting any of these to fly in a significant gravity field or atmosphere.