Sukhoi T-75 LTS (CheckMate)

Ainen. In fact, all this applies to the military bureaucracy, not to the aircraft. Sukhoi can just make money on this project, not paying attention to VKS, and only then, when the military realizes that the platform makes sense, will they buy an already finished project
 
Tomboy said:
Is the VVS even going to procure Su-75? Or will it just be an export only
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I will express my opinion based solely on long-term observation of the functioning of the Russian Aerospace Forces, the Ministry of Defense and the Aviation Industry, as well as their interaction with each other. I don't have any insiders.

I assume that the Su-75 will be purchased, but in an unmanned version, basically. First, a manned version will be purchased to reduce risks and promote it for export. But mass purchases will be in the unmanned version.

At the same time, statements or lack of statements from the manufacturer or the Ministry of Defense should not be ignored. Given the law on state secrets, as well as how it is implemented, it is not worth focusing on new equipment being developed and put into operation. Rather, it should be borne in mind that many of them are made with secrecy in mind, and therefore physically cannot be true. There are quite a few examples of this, and a trained eye reveals it quite easily. At the same time, while the program is not particularly visible, the best tactic is silence. Which is exactly what we are observing.
 
Ainen said:
Ships and USVs going to and out from port of Odessa aren't stopped, i.e. Russia can't deny access to the sea to Ukraine. Despite its main port being within a few hours cruise from Crimean cost.
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They can. They (for some reasons) decide not to. Nothing stop them to just sink whatever ship or boat coming and going to Odessa, they don't even need BSF for it - Odessa is well within land-based AShM envelope, to say nothing about aviation.
It's a political thing and doesn't concern BSF's capabilities or lack thereof.

MSV said:
I assume that the Su-75 will be purchased, but in an unmanned version, basically. First, a manned version will be purchased to reduce risks and promote it for export. But mass purchases will be in the unmanned version.
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I doubt that. Russian airforce is quite conservative, and there is also S-70. Why do they need another UAV? On the contrary, if they will by S-75, it will be mostly manned variant.
 
Russia offers joint development and production of LTS to Belarus. An expected step.
vpk.name

Россия предложит Белоруссии совместно производить Су-75

Михеев: Россия предложит Белоруссии совместно производить Су-75<br>Россия предложит Белоруссии совместно производить перспективный легкий истребитель пятого поколения Checkmate, также известный как Су-75, и продвигать его на внешних рынках. Об этом со ссылкой на гендиректора компании...
vpk.name vpk.name
 
Geo said:
Russia offers joint development and production of LTS to Belarus. An expected step.
vpk.name

Россия предложит Белоруссии совместно производить Су-75

Михеев: Россия предложит Белоруссии совместно производить Су-75<br>Россия предложит Белоруссии совместно производить перспективный легкий истребитель пятого поколения Checkmate, также известный как Су-75, и продвигать его на внешних рынках. Об этом со ссылкой на гендиректора компании...
vpk.name vpk.name
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Well, it would fit Belarus quite well, unlike Su-30SM. The latter is too big, and likely more expensive to maintain. considering that Belarus's ariforce consists of either of MiG-29s and Su-25 that show their age, single-engined multirole is a good replacement choice.
 
Anduriel said:
They can. They (for some reasons) decide not to. Nothing stop them to just sink whatever ship or boat coming and going to Odessa, they don't even need BSF for it - Odessa is well within land-based AShM envelope, to say nothing about aviation.
It's a political thing and doesn't concern BSF's capabilities or lack thereof.


I doubt that. Russian airforce is quite conservative, and there is also S-70. Why do they need another UAV? On the contrary, if they will by S-75, it will be mostly manned variant.
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The so-called 'Submarine mafia' have yet to be properly purged and so still for the moment have a death grip on the Russian navy. But that is a debate for another thread.
 
Anduriel said:
Well, it would fit Belarus quite well, unlike Su-30SM. The latter is too big, and likely more expensive to maintain. considering that Belarus's ariforce consists of either of MiG-29s and Su-25 that show their age, single-engined multirole is a good replacement choice.
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Yes.

And:

- The Su-75 is the only viable solution for Belarus to the air power imbalance caused by Poland's large-scale procurement of (not only) aerial defence systems.

- Minsk will likely welcome the opportunity for technology transfer, supporting the development of its own defense industry, which already produces highly advanced weapons (such as the Polonez MLRS, Buk-MB-2K SAM, Volat V2 IFV/APC...).

- Participation in the program is crucial for the key aerospace and maintenance enterprise JSC 558 ARP, which, in addition to its own R&D, carries out maintenance, repairs, and upgrades of a wide range of originally Soviet aircraft systems.
 
Yes single engine jets were for long time considered no bueno in VKS , legarcy of cold war when both east and west lost most planes and pilots in accidents , but i reckon that had as much to do with relatively demanding flying characteristics of aircraft designs with high stall and landing speeds as with engine reliabilty.
 
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Belarus can contribute nothing of value to cost, design, or production and functionally is just an extension of the Russian military anyway. The announcement seems more like an attempt to spill some ink in the press and generate customer interest (a real customer).
 
I suppose that Russia will be waiting on India to sign on the dotted line for some Checkmate's that is if India are serious about ordering the Su-75, they still have Jaguars in service so they will need to be replaced soon. I also think that the Checkmate would be a good replacement aircraft.
 
Josh_TN said:
Belarus can contribute nothing of value to cost, design, or production and functionally is just an extension of the Russian military anyway. The announcement seems more like an attempt to spill some ink in the press and generate customer interest (a real customer).
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That's not true.

Belarus has a highly advanced IT industry (investing heavily in areas such as AI), as well as sophisticated radio electronics and electro-optics. For example, it produces the highly advanced airborne jammer Satelite-M.
JSC 558 ARP has conducted its own development and systems integration in programs such as the MiG-29BM, Su-27UBM1/UBM2, and others. The country possesses a broad industrial and R&D base.

What is true is that Belarusian participation could significantly benefit the LTS program from a commercial standpoint.
This is due both to anti-Russian sanctions and to Belarus’s highly independent arms export sector (which often directly competes with Russia’s).
Minsk maintains successful defense trade relationships with countries in the Caucasus and Central Asia, as well as in the Persian Gulf and Africa.
 
Anduriel said:
I doubt that. Russian airforce is quite conservative, and there is also S-70. Why do they need another UAV?
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Well, the S-70 is a subsonic, LO striker. While T-75B is essentially a fighter jet in all aspects just unmanned. However I think it's still too early to commit to something so complex as an actually unmanned fighter jet. Especially as S-70 and Grom are not in actual service yet/to be adopted.

I think T-75S will be the first one to fly and the first one to be adopted by the VKS or any customer really, then maybe T-75D follows. I think T-75B is still a long way down the timeline.
 
EmoBirb said:
Well, the S-70 is a subsonic, LO striker. While T-75B is essentially a fighter jet in all aspects just unmanned. However I think it's still too early to commit to something so complex as an actually unmanned fighter jet. Especially as S-70 and Grom are not in actual service yet/to be adopted.

I think T-75S will be the first one to fly and the first one to be adopted by the VKS or any customer really, then maybe T-75D follows. I think T-75B is still a long way down the timeline.
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If we take into account that almost immediately after the flight of the T-50, it was announced that it had an electronic assistant capable of taking over 90% of the pilot's functionality. Currently, the availability of such a system is announced as an option for delivery as part of the export version. Given that the Su-57 has been in production for a long time, as well as taking into account that where 90% is announced (it was announced a long time ago), 100% is there, as well as the fact that the S-70 is undergoing tests with the highest confidence, I assume that the Su-57 conducted a flight program without pilot participation. Most likely, he was sitting in an armchair for safety. Most likely, in the face of the Su-57, the VKS has a serial manned fighter that can be used as a drone. This is just my guess, but I think it's well-founded. Most likely, this is not a basic version, but it can be used as a test machine or machines. With such introductory data, it is quite logical to evaluate the acceptance of the Su-75 into the VKS in an unmanned version.

And such a moment. Working with information in Russia and in the West is different. If in the West there are often loud statements and public relations about the adoption of new systems in service, it is not a fact that they will appear in service at all. As an example, the Comanche helicopter or the future combat systems. In Russia, we often find out about the appearance of new systems in service already upon their availability, and even then not always.
 
The only known combat deployment of S-70 makes me tighten VKS is a little far away from su-75 drones, even assuming the type gets developed.
 
They had to send a missile strike on the crashed location of the Su-70 in Ukraine there is no way they would jump to fielding unmanned su-75s without making the manned versions of the aircraft.

I think the progress on their photonic computer set for 2027 which makes a 24-core processor and 5090 graphics card look like caveman technology is successful the Su-75s will have some amazing A.I capabilities to give an actual set time frame.
 
Null said:
They had to send a missile strike on the crashed location of the Su-70 in Ukraine there is no way they would jump to fielding unmanned su-75s without making the manned versions of the aircraft.
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Did the launch an Iskander at the wreckage after the Su-57 put it down or what?
 
FighterJock said:
I suppose that Russia will be waiting on India to sign on the dotted line for some Checkmate's that is if India are serious about ordering the Su-75, they still have Jaguars in service so they will need to be replaced soon. I also think that the Checkmate would be a good replacement aircraft.
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India has AMCA in same role.
Granted, it's specific schedule may slip quiifar to the right, but T-75 isn't on a shelf either.
 
Anduriel said:
The latter is too big, and likely more expensive to maintain.
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I'm not sure that would be a reason....maintenance of a conventionally built, albeit large, aircraft would be unlikely to be more expensive than maintaining a LO aircraft with all the complications that come with that...
 
Josh_TN said:
India already rejected Su-57.
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That was however before they had a disastrous aerial battle and also before the Su-57 had it's first export customer, which is presumably Algeria and combat deployments in Ukraine.

Furthermore the disagreements and subsequent end of any cooperation on that front stemmed from the fact that India wanted to change the aircraft drastically, entirely tailored to their needs, get manufacturing and technology transfer AND making the Russians pay for the majority of that. To which the Russians were like "we add another seat for you and you can the assemble the thing, take it or leave it" and they left.

Now with the prospect of potential sales of J-35A down the line to Pakistan, India is between a rock and a hard place. And you don't seriously think the US will hand the F-35 to a country that would fly it over Pakistan and crash it there in like the first or second combat deployment? So the remaining options are Su-57E, the LTS when it arrives, or waiting for AMCA which should be ready around...2040? 2050? Who knows, lol.
 
The Indians are not buying anything Russian and the Russians lack the capacity to produce meaningful numbers anyway. I will believe there is a foreign customer when I see it. IAF deficiency likely lies with operational planning and lack of AEW, not fighter type.
 
EmoBirb said:
They produce more Su-57s per year than India produces Tejas, despite sanctions. View attachment 771070
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No doubt, I am hardly promoting the Indian MoD as a model of efficiency; they make the U.S. look organized. But Tejas is a domestic aircraft that spurs the Indian aviation industry while Su-57 is yet another outside product from a seller with a notoriously bad track record of providing service and parts, producing an aircraft at a rather slow rate that likely will not fulfill its own domestic contract until the end of the decade.
 
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Josh_TN said:
while Su-57 is yet another outside product from a seller with a notoriously bad track record of providing service and parts, producing an aircraft at a rather slow rate that likely will not fulfill its own domestic contract until the end of the decade.
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It's true, it would hurt indigenous development and growth. However, the alternative is betting on the fruition of such a domestic effort that's several years into the future at best. In the mean time India is on the back foot, regionally speaking. While already heavily out matched by the PLAAF, if Pakistan were to continue the modernization of their air force and actually end up procuring J-35AE (EA?), then any tactical air engagement would become very grim prospect. Sure India and Pakistan will likely never enter a true war, but each skirmish on the air would end in favor of the PAF. And the Rafale and Su-30, regardless of how good the are aren't a match for a true stealth fighter, something that various exercises over the years emphasized.

That leaves them with the KF-21 and the Sukhois as possible option to close that capability gap until AMCA is ready. The LTS would be the best fit, but isn't ready yet. The KF-21 is almost ready, but not a true stealth fighter either at the time of its arrival. However India could be offered to participate and fund further development to finally achieve that capability. However participation or at least localized production is also something UAC could offer with the T-75 or even Su-57E. Which brings us back to the Su-57E which is the only option that's currently available and allegedly, possibly, maybe already adopted by another user aside from the VKS.

What speaks for it is that India is already very familiar with Russian systems and operates in the Russian ordnance ecosystem due to their Su-30s and MiG-29s. As for production, according to what has been published by UAC with regards to annual production and deliveries, the current unit count of Su-57S serials is around 30, maybe a few less or a few more. The initial contract is for 76 aircraft, something that's not far off. Additional funds through sales could also enable them to expand the production facility further, something they planned already anyway IIRC. So it brings various benefits with it, although the LTS would arguably be the better choice, just not existent yet. While KF-21 is the other. All of them hurt domestic efforts equally.

Time will tell
 
EmoBirb said:
It's true, it would hurt indigenous development and growth. However, the alternative is betting on the fruition of such a domestic effort that's several years into the future at best. In the mean time India is on the back foot, regionally speaking. While already heavily out matched by the PLAAF, if Pakistan were to continue the modernization of their air force and actually end up procuring J-35AE (EA?), then any tactical air engagement would become very grim prospect. Sure India and Pakistan will likely never enter a true war, but each skirmish on the air would end in favor of the PAF. And the Rafale and Su-30, regardless of how good the are aren't a match for a true stealth fighter, something that various exercises over the years emphasized.

That leaves them with the KF-21 and the Sukhois as possible option to close that capability gap until AMCA is ready. The LTS would be the best fit, but isn't ready yet. The KF-21 is almost ready, but not a true stealth fighter either at the time of its arrival. However India could be offered to participate and fund further development to finally achieve that capability. However participation or at least localized production is also something UAC could offer with the T-75 or even Su-57E. Which brings us back to the Su-57E which is the only option that's currently available and allegedly, possibly, maybe already adopted by another user aside from the VKS.

What speaks for it is that India is already very familiar with Russian systems and operates in the Russian ordnance ecosystem due to their Su-30s and MiG-29s. As for production, according to what has been published by UAC with regards to annual production and deliveries, the current unit count of Su-57S serials is around 30, maybe a few less or a few more. The initial contract is for 76 aircraft, something that's not far off. Additional funds through sales could also enable them to expand the production facility further, something they planned already anyway IIRC. So it brings various benefits with it, although the LTS would arguably be the better choice, just not existent yet. While KF-21 is the other. All of them hurt domestic efforts equally.

Time will tell
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All of this is true.

And despite all the fabrications from Indian forums (it's not trru 5th gen faita!"), it remains to be added that no other operational aircraft in the world besides Su-57 has the ability to simultaneously internally carry weapons such is the Izd. 810 and Kh-69.
 
kaiserbill said:
Russia is still Indias largest arms importer, with 36% market share as of December 2024.
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True, I should have specified India will not buy more Russian aircraft. They have generally had a horrible experience with those. I do not believe there are problems with tanks and such.
 
Anduriel said:
Well, it would fit Belarus quite well, unlike Su-30SM. The latter is too big, and likely more expensive to maintain. considering that Belarus's ariforce consists of either of MiG-29s and Su-25 that show their age, single-engined multirole is a good replacement choice.
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It's a good replacement for MiG-29s.



Mr.T said:
I imagine Su25 could get replaced with Su-75 at least to some degree.
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Replacing a dedicated CAS plane with an LO light fighter is not the way forward, IMO.



EmoBirb said:
They produce more Su-57s per year than India produces Tejas, despite sanctions.
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That says more about India's MOD's dysfunction than about Russia's capabilities.



Archibald said:
Burn in Hell, stupid autocorrect. I presume you wanted to say "Tejas" ?
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Ducking Autocorrupt strikes again!
 
Scott Kenny said:
Replacing a dedicated CAS plane with an LO light fighter is not the way forward, IMO.
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Well, I previously also argued that it would be the ideal replacement for the Su-25, Su-24, MiG-29 and earliest Su-27s and Su-30s. So I definitely agree with Mr.T to a degree.

Although it wouldn't be a 1:1 replacement. As the likes of the Lancet, Ka-52M, Orion, S-70 would also replace the Su-25 across it's mission profile. A dedicated manned CAS aircraft isn't necessary these days, I'd argue. Instead CAS is being distributed among various different platforms of different capabilities and cost.
 
China, Russia and the US encourage more India/Pakistan border stupidity to sell their 4th gens to, but I am assured there is no way some countries want to take reputational risks of selling Su-57s, F-35s or even Su-75s to either country.
 
EmoBirb said:
Well, I previously also argued that it would be the ideal replacement for the Su-25, Su-24, MiG-29 and earliest Su-27s and Su-30s. So I definitely agree with Mr.T to a degree.

Although it wouldn't be a 1:1 replacement. As the likes of the Lancet, Ka-52M, Orion, S-70 would also replace the Su-25 across it's mission profile. A dedicated manned CAS aircraft isn't necessary these days, I'd argue. Instead CAS is being distributed among various different platforms of different capabilities and cost.
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No, I think the CAS replacement is going to be some flavor of Ka52 or Mi28, or whatever replaces them.
 
Josh_TN said:
True, I should have specified India will not buy more Russian aircraft. They have generally had a horrible experience with those. I do not believe there are problems with tanks and such.
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This is obviously a personal opinion of yours, but isn't really supported by facts.
The Mig 21 was India's first supersonic fighter, and played a huge role in the development of their aviation industry.
They produced hundreds (between 600-800) in a production run spanning from the 1960's to the 1980's. Still in service 60 years later.
Ditto the Mig 27, with about 170 locally manufactured and a 35 year service career. Licence produced.
Ditto the Mig 29 used by both airforce and navy.
Ditto the importance of the Sukhoi Su-30MKI, with almost 300 manufactured under licence.

The Antonov An12 enjoyed a 30 year service career in the Indian Airforce, together with the Ill-76 and An32 as their primary lifter.
They still use the Ill-76, as well as the tanker and EW variants. Still have over 100 An32 in service.

The Mil Mi 8 and 17. Mi 8 saw almost 50 years service in India. It currently has 200 Mi17 as the medium lift backbone.

This is the exact opposite of a "generally horrible experience".

Anyway, enough on that tangent.
 
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Josh_TN said:
True, I should have specified India will not buy more Russian aircraft. They have generally had a horrible experience with those. I do not believe there are problems with tanks and such.
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They tried to add two batches of Russian aircraft (mig-29upg and yet more su-30mki) until 2022.

This went to a halt, of course, but this was effect of the war. Algeria seems to have broken the lock.
 
Scott Kenny said:
It's a good replacement for MiG-29s.




Replacing a dedicated CAS plane with an LO light fighter is not the way forward, IMO.




That says more about India's MOD's dysfunction than about Russia's capabilities.




Ducking Autocorrupt strikes again!
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Yes for Belarus , Russia does not operate many 29s

Dedicated CAS plane is obsolete ,has been obsolete already in cold war, has no role now , some of the A-10 are being replaced with F15EX others probably by F35
Stealthy strike fighter aircraft is exactly what will in most airforces replace dedicated strike platforms ,the dedicated strike or CAS platform left will be a drone

India MOD acquisitions are epic worthy of Bollywood ,where all the sudden a mass dance scene occurs for no reason. It seems dance offs are quite regular in their acquisitions as well
 
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