Challenger 2 Tank

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BREAKING: The UK is considering supplying Ukraine with British tanks for the first time to fight Russia's invading forces, Sky News understands. Sky's
@haynesdeborah
says this would mark a "significant step up" in Western support. More here: https://trib.al/lfRo8yO
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1612436338942382080
View: https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1612436338942382080

The UK is considering supplying Ukraine with British tanks for the first time to fight Russia's invading forces, Sky News understands.

Discussions have been taking place "for a few weeks" about delivering a number of the British Army's Challenger 2 main battle tank to the Ukrainian armed forces, a Western source with knowledge of the conversations said.

Such a move would mark a significant step-up in Western support to Ukraine and could help prompt other NATO allies, in particular Germany, to follow suit.
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https://news.sky.com/story/uk-consi...nger-2-tanks-to-fight-russian-forces-12783107
 
I hope this isn't straying off-topic but are these 14 Challenger 2s in Ukraine for training crews because enough for a combat capable unit are likely to be sent in coming months? Otherwise what's the point of them? General armored tactics could be learnt in far older tanks and the specifics of whatever modern western MBTs Ukraine does receive (presumably Abrams and Leopards) will still require training by crews on MBTs of the same type.
 
https://www.thedefensepost.com/2023/01/30/uk-challenger-tank-russian/
The UK is quite concerned about examples of Chobham armour falling into Russian hands. The scenarios outlined above to prevent that are, IMO, a little unrealistic though. I guess we'll see.

“But the worst case scenario is that a tank is destroyed when the lines are collapsing and friendly forces are in retreat,” the source added.
“Step one is the training and working with mission planners to try and ensure the Challengers are not used in scenarios where they think that collapse is a realistic possibility.”
The second option is to train the Ukrainians to recover a knocked-out tank with the help of another tank or a recovery vehicle.
Having private military contractors on standby for recovery is also being considered, the outlet revealed.
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This is madness, countries won't shoot themselves in the foot by not using the equipment they were given because "muh 30-50 year-old armour package might be captured". As if the Russians hadn't already designed armour of comparable efficiency. Same deal with the M1's DU armor with people (or the US admin) itself trying to deliver DU-less M1A2s to Ukraine.
 
jeffb said:
https://www.thedefensepost.com/2023/01/30/uk-challenger-tank-russian/
The UK is quite concerned about examples of Chobham armour falling into Russian hands. The scenarios outlined above to prevent that are, IMO, a little unrealistic though. I guess we'll see.

“But the worst case scenario is that a tank is destroyed when the lines are collapsing and friendly forces are in retreat,” the source added.
“Step one is the training and working with mission planners to try and ensure the Challengers are not used in scenarios where they think that collapse is a realistic possibility.”
The second option is to train the Ukrainians to recover a knocked-out tank with the help of another tank or a recovery vehicle.
Having private military contractors on standby for recovery is also being considered, the outlet revealed.
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Seems unrealistic, how do you destroy a tank to the extent that armour disappears completely without using a nuke?
 
Forest Green said:
Seems unrealistic, how do you destroy a tank to the extent that armour disappears completely without using a nuke?
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Lots and lots of liquid oxygen. Just gotta time it right so that the cloud of uranium oxide drifts over the Special Military Operation Enjoyers.

Liquid fluorine would be more effective (and more entertaining on every level), but the logistics can be tricky.
 
Orionblamblam said:
Lots and lots of liquid oxygen. Just gotta time it right so that the cloud of uranium oxide drifts over the Special Military Operation Enjoyers.

Liquid fluorine would be more effective (and more entertaining on every level), but the logistics can be tricky.
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I'm unfamiliar with those reactions. Oxygen obviously helps things burn, but I doubt it would burn hot enough to melt a tank??
 
Forest Green said:
Orionblamblam said:
Lots and lots of liquid oxygen. Just gotta time it right so that the cloud of uranium oxide drifts over the Special Military Operation Enjoyers.

Liquid fluorine would be more effective (and more entertaining on every level), but the logistics can be tricky.
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I'm unfamiliar with those reactions. Oxygen obviously helps things burn, but I doubt it would burn hot enough to melt a tank??
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Prepare to be surprised. Iron in a pure oxygen environment can burn at up to 3000+ K, which is approximately the *boiling* temperature of iron. So if you can get iron burning and supplied with LOX, the reaction *can* not just melt the iron, but boil it... whereupon the iron vapor mixes with the oxygen and has a little chemical dance.

Uranium burns hotter. Uranium is akin to magnesium in that it will merrily burn in standard air; unlike magnesium, getting the reaction going is a chore. However, one way to reach the conditions needed to get uranium burning is to shoot it REAL HARD. Like, you know, out of a 120mm smooth bore tank cannon. So if you can somehow supply a tank with enough LOX *and* you shoot it Real Hard, you'll burn the iron, the carbon, the uranium in its structure to vapor and then clouds of fine dust. This is silly-difficult, but you could vaporize an entire tank, leaving nothing behind but perhaps a few bits of refractory metals like tungsten and molybdenum, but I imagine under these condistions they'll burn too. And if you're going the extra step of using fluorine, you'll also burn the sand the tank was sitting on. Fluorine oxidizes oxides.

If you can supply the tank with *fluorine,* then, why, you've got some real entertainment potential.

Also: it's my understanding that a lot of oxy/acetylene welders will, once the weld is going, turn down the acetylene and just run oxygen. The oxygen will burn with the iron being welded hot enough to easily melt the iron and keep the welding process going. I imagine this is tricky.
 
Didn't know that. I'm not sure about the practicalities of doing all that in a combat situation though.
 
On a serious note I'm surprised none of the Challenger 2 seen to date have the applique armour sideskirts, even from the 2F variant used in the 2003 Iraq invasion, let alone the later TES. We haven't even chucked in some Saab Barracuda...
 
paralay said:
Challenger 2 tanks delivered from the UK are allegedly already in the Zhytomyr region of Ukraine.
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They've been geolocated already to the Zhytomyr Tank Training Ground south of Teterivka (before anyone says Opsec...its been widely discussed on Twitter and Telegram already for days... plus the training ground is enormous, with an active military air base and army base next door that are far juicier targets)
 
timmymagic said:
On a serious note I'm surprised none of the Challenger 2 seen to date have the applique armour sideskirts, even from the 2F variant used in the 2003 Iraq invasion, let alone the later TES. We haven't even chucked in some Saab Barracuda...
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I think they have lots of their own ERA modules over there.
 

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