AW159 Wildcat query

N

nova10

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
24 April 2008
Messages
74
Reaction score
19
I understand that the Wildcats sold to South Korea and Malaysia had some modifications and improvements over and above the Royal Navy Wildcats, including a datalink and a FLASH Thales dipping sonar. Does anyone have further details?
 
Last edited:
Thanks SteveO! I seem to recall the South Korean being equipped with the Blue Shark asw torpedo and Spike NLOS missile. I also seem to recall the non-UK Wildcats having a different, more modern flight control system. Anybody?
 
Last edited:
Fairly surprising news, new customers for both have been rare lately, Wildcat certainly hasn't lived up to its name on the export market (surprisingly since SuperLynx sold quite well).

I would speculate the Wildcat operator will be a smaller navy, perhaps corvette equipped. Far East would be a sound bet, possibly even South America but that's less likely.
A Merlin operator would be a larger Navy, assuming it is an ASW variant they are talking about, Middle East or Far East seems a better bet given the costs. I'm not aware of any recent high profile RFPs for ASW helicopters, but its possible I've missed an announcement somewhere.
 
Hood said:
A Merlin operator would be a larger Navy, assuming it is an ASW variant they are talking about, Middle East or Far East seems a better bet given the costs. I'm not aware of any recent high profile RFPs for ASW helicopters, but its possible I've missed an announcement somewhere.
Click to expand...
Norway? The Norwegian Airforces already operates them, and the Navy and Coast Guard have just ended their NH-90 contract for Search & Rescue and ASW.
 
A Tentative Fleet Plan said:
Hood said:
A Merlin operator would be a larger Navy, assuming it is an ASW variant they are talking about, Middle East or Far East seems a better bet given the costs. I'm not aware of any recent high profile RFPs for ASW helicopters, but its possible I've missed an announcement somewhere.
Click to expand...
Norway? The Norwegian Airforces already operates them, and the Navy and Coast Guard have just ended their NH-90 contract for Search & Rescue and ASW.
Click to expand...

Problem is their ships might not be able to accommodate Merlin

cheers
 
Yes, Norway's naval and coastguard ships lack hangars large enough, and interestingly I've seen a claim that the downwash is too powerful for Norway's hospital helipads due to their location within 100m of their emergency departments.
 
Raises the question are helicopters with air to surface/ship missiles too vulnerable to be an effective weapon system ?
Ukrayinska Pravda
Ukraines Air Force shoots down 4 Russian helicopters in 18 minutes
455
Ukrainska Pravda
Wed, October 12, 2022 at 11:30 AM·1 min read
WEDNESDAY, 12 OCTOBER 2022, 13:30
On the morning of 12 October, units of the Ukrainian Air Force shot down at least four Russian attack helicopters in 18 minutes.
Source: press service of the Air Force
Quote: "From 8:40 to 8:58 on 12 October, in the south of Ukraine, anti-aircraft missile units of the Air Force destroyed at least four attack helicopters of the enemy (presumably Ka-52s) which provided fire support to occupying troops on the ground on the southern front."
Details: Preliminary information indicates that one helicopter crashed on territory recently liberated from Russians, the others were downed behind the zone of contact. The Air Force has added that two more helicopters were engaged, therefore there is a possibility that other targets were also hit.
Click to expand...

https://news.yahoo.com/ukraines-air-force-shoots-down-103015616.html
 
Cordy said:
Raises the question are helicopters with air to surface/ship missiles too vulnerable to be an effective weapon system ?
Click to expand...
For the targets that are likely to be engaged by Martlet or Sea Venom its fine. None of the targets envisaged to be engaged by them (FIACS for Martlet, up to Corvette by Sea Venom) would have the capability to effectively engage Wildcat employing them.
 
timmymagic said:
Cordy said:
Raises the question are helicopters with air to surface/ship missiles too vulnerable to be an effective weapon system ?
Click to expand...
For the targets that are likely to be engaged by Martlet or Sea Venom its fine. None of the targets envisaged to be engaged by them (FIACS for Martlet, up to Corvette by Sea Venom) would have the capability to effectively engage Wildcat employing them.
Click to expand...
Also one would hope that the Wildcat is not attacking by itself against an air defended ship, but instead is part of a combined effort to deal with the ship. So thst the defending ship has multiple dilemmas to deal with.
 
madhon said:
They are tending to go down the MH-60R route instead of merlin/wildcat though.
Click to expand...

I remember reading a Danish pilots thoughts on MH-60....he wanted his Lynx back....wasn't impressed with it at all (surprisingly). Basically said the pilots wanted Wildcat to replace Lynx. In fairness to the Danish Ministry of Defence if they wanted an ASW helo at a reasonable price the MH-60 was it. They know all about AW-101, but that isn't cheap.
 
Wildcat is much more agile than the Blackhawk, also lighter I believe.
 
yasotay said:
Wildcat is much more agile than the Blackhawk, also lighter I believe.
Click to expand...
Thats what I would have expected him to say, but he was talking about the cockpit layout in Seahawk/Blackhawk being poor....and strangest of all he said the build quality was very poor. Didn't think it was a proper naval helicopter.
 
Well one thing I do know is that every aviator is always right and has at least three (obviously correct) opinions on any given subject. Just ask them. :cool:
 
Rumours that New Zealand are looking at Wildcat for the Seasprite replacement....due in 2028. Buying up Australia's, Belgiums, Norways or Sweden's (and whoevers next to ditch it...) NH-90 is not an option as it won't fit in the Anzac Class hangar and is too heavy/big dimensionally for the OPV's....seems like its Wildcat that is the only naval helo that can do both jobs...with H160 not available in the required timeframes, MH-60R should fit in the Anzacs but wouldn't be able to service the OPV's.

Also posted in the AW-101 thread that Poland is looking for 22 in the troop carrying configuation...

Plus there was this...which everyone seems to think is Algeria...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1633598271292678144
View: https://twitter.com/Rotorfocus/status/1633598271292678144?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1633598271292678144%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=
 
Last edited:
Hopefully the UK MOD will consider a top up buy of Wildcat alongside other in production equipment (Merlin/Typhoon)…. probably not though :confused:
 
timmymagic said:
www.flightglobal.com

Leonardo mulls Wildcat’s future amid dwindling backlog

Leonardo Helicopters continues to assess the future of its AW159 Wildcat programme in light of a dwindling backlog and a challenging sales environment.
www.flightglobal.com www.flightglobal.com
Click to expand...
I can see there is a potential trend away from expensive manned naval helicopters towards VTOL UAVs. And there is a very real competition for rear deck space. The future will see Mk 70 VLS modules on the aft deck, or containerized Israeli Barak launchers, as chosen by the Dutch Navy. Unmanned or lean manning is the future and eliminating a helicopter flight crew and support staff is a huge savings. Manned SAR might have to be put aside in favor of actual warfighting capabilities. When an old fashioned manned helicopter is more expensive than a modest OPV, you can see how products like the Wildcat are fading away.
 
TinWing said:
I can see there is a potential trend away from expensive manned naval helicopters towards VTOL UAVs. And there is a very real competition for rear deck space. The future will see Mk 70 VLS modules on the aft deck, or containerized Israeli Barak launchers, as chosen by the Dutch Navy. Unmanned or lean manning is the future and eliminating a helicopter flight crew and support staff is a huge savings. Manned SAR might have to be put aside in favor of actual warfighting capabilities. When an old fashioned manned helicopter is more expensive than a modest OPV, you can see how products like the Wildcat are fading away.
Click to expand...
As much as I am a fan of manned aviation, I have to agree that this is one of the places where unmanned is likely able to do a satisfactory job, and they are faster/cheaper to build, and it does not take as long to train a crew.
 
The poor Wildcat never did replicate the success of the Super Lynx. I guess the Super Lynx hoovered up all the relevant naval contracts and those fleet renewals are going to larger and more capable helicopters. Plus its been squeezed out of the attack game (might have helped had LMM and Sea Venom achieved FOC sooner).
A Wildcat with LMM and Brimstone would have been awesome to see but the days on unarmoured attack choppers is over now and as UAVs take over these roles the market is narrowing.
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom