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Author Topic: Kawanishi heavy flying boat projects (K-120, K-200, etc.)  (Read 322903 times)

Offline shaba

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Offline Tzoli

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Re: Kawanishi heavy flying boat projects (K-120, K-200, etc.)
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2011, 08:31:19 am »
I can too provide a drawing or two for this K-200 Flying boat.

From the Book:
Japanese Secret Projects: Experimental Aircrafts of the IJA and IJN 1939-1945 by Edwin M. Dyer, III
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/5218/swscan000028.png

And a Kawanishi H8K Emily redrawn in a similar way by my friend (The K-200 actually very similar to the H8K in my opinion) I would call it H12K
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/623/h12k.gif
Original:
http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/sww2/h8k/h8k-1.gif

I posted them as links because I do not know how should I post them as resized pictures, they are large ones indeed.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2011, 02:01:31 am by Tzoli »

Offline windswords

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Re: Kawanishi heavy flying boat projects (K-120, K-200, etc.)
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2011, 06:21:44 pm »
Does anyone have an image of the K-60 or K-120 projects?
Frank

Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Kawanishi heavy flying boat projects (K-120, K-200, etc.)
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2011, 04:06:11 am »
The Strange Mechanism website has this on the K-60:

"Main Engine : Mitsubishi "Nu-Go" Water Cooling Twin Engine (5,000hp) X 4 (Steam Turbine Air Cooling fan equip)

Range : 9,260Km"

No image, though.

Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Kawanishi heavy flying boat projects (K-120, K-200, etc.)
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2013, 03:23:56 pm »
So, what are peoples thoughts on this most enigmatic Kawanishi project? Some believe it was a flying boat project, a successor to the K-60 (K-60 + K-60 = K-120?), or the predecessor to the H11K Soku. But nobody that I've read can say with 100% certainty what it was let alone anything about it other than the designation.


I contend, that, without some sort of evidence to suggest it was a flying boat, it may not be a flying boat project at all. Kawanishi wasn't all seaplanes and flying boats. We see this in the K-90 (J3K1 Jinpu) and the K-100 (bomber project).


Thoughts one way or the other?
« Last Edit: July 06, 2016, 01:51:47 am by Skyblazer »

Offline blackkite

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Re: Kawanishi heavy flying boat projects (K-120, K-200, etc.)
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2013, 03:02:15 am »
I can't find any information for Kawanishi Ki-120 in Japanese sources.

Offline windswords

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Re: Kawanishi heavy flying boat projects (K-120, K-200, etc.)
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2013, 05:14:58 am »
Do we even know for sure this project was real? Or did it appear on some list after the war with no confirmation from an official source?

Blackkite,

Were the records of Kawanishi's projects destroyed after the war? Or, might they be in a company archive?
Frank

Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Kawanishi heavy flying boat projects (K-120, K-200, etc.)
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2013, 05:30:49 am »

The K-120 has been around for some years. But what hasn't been around for those few years is what it was.


I honestly believe that the K-120 existed within Kawanishi. What I don't agree with is the assumption some people make that the K-120 was a flying boat.


What is curious is that there seems to have been a "double designation" within Kawanishi. For example, the J3K1 Jinpu being the KX-2 and K-90 and what some believe the KX-1 being the K-100 bomber. So, now you have to consider that perhaps the KX-8 (which was the H11K) was the K-120. Or perhaps the K-120 was the Kawanishi designation for the follow-on to the J3K1, the J6K1.


I'd be content learning at least what type of plane the K-120 was. :)



Do we even know for sure this project was real? Or did it appear on some list after the war with no confirmation from an official source?

Blackkite,

Were the records of Kawanishi's projects destroyed after the war? Or, might they be in a company archive?

Offline hesham

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Re: Kawanishi heavy flying boat projects (K-120, K-200, etc.)
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2013, 05:33:06 am »
Hi,


a small info about Kawanishi K-120,it was a heavy flying boat project;


http://www.oocities.org/sadakichi09/navy/IJNA.htm

Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Kawanishi heavy flying boat projects (K-120, K-200, etc.)
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2013, 05:41:53 am »

But even he doesn't even list anything about the K-120, only the K-60 and K-200. And I half suspect the information given in Guiseppe Picarella's "Japanese Experimental Transport Aircraft of the Pacific War" about the K-120 came off this site. Even Picarella doesn't say with any definite certainty that the K-120 was a flying boat, although he believes it likely was.


I did contact Akira Sahara to see what he has to say on where he found out about the K-120.
 

Hi,


a small info about Kawanishi K-120,it was a heavy flying boat project;


http://www.oocities.org/sadakichi09/navy/IJNA.htm

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Kawanishi heavy flying boat projects (K-120, K-200, etc.)
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2013, 06:44:36 am »
For what it's worth...

Quote
the Japanese Navy ordered at Nakajima company to design the Nakajima G10N1 Fugaku(Mount Fuji)Ultra Long Range and Heavy Bomber with six engines, derived from italian designs sended for italian aircraft to arriving at Manchukuo expressly for Japanese Navy. the Kawanishi design other bomber similar, the Kawanishi TB Super Heavy Bomber and ones long range heavy Flying Boats with same purpose how Kawanishi K-60 Heavy Flying Boat, Kawanishi K-120 Heavy Flying Boat and Kawanishi K-200 Heavy Turbojet Flying Boat. and Nakajima why developed the Nakajima G8N1 "Renzan" (allied codename Rita) Heavy Bomber.

Source: http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Japanese-Nuclear-Energy-Development



Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Kawanishi heavy flying boat projects (K-120, K-200, etc.)
« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2013, 08:26:31 am »

Well, sadly, it isn't worth much. I seriously doubt that the Fiat B.R.20 which the Japanese operated in the second Sino-Japanese War was any kind of influence on the Fugaku (since it sounds like the writer is confusing that fact). And if this article is implying that Italy passed to Japan information on super heavy bomber projects for the Fugaku program, that would eye opening. Since the article speaks of the Japanese nuclear weapon program (which existed and I recommend Robert K. Wilcox' "Japan's Secret War"), off the bat, the G8N would never reach the U.S. and while the K-200 is mentioned, the reality is, it would never reach the U.S. either. I need to re-read Wilcox' book but from what I remember, the IJA and IJN, as always, kept their work to themselves. They were able to get enriched uranium but it was so minuscule in amount as to be worthless for fission in a nuclear bomb though there was talk of a "dirty bomb". I can certainly see the Fugaku and TB (19-shi G9K?) as nuke carriers but there isn't any evidence to show that they were being built exclusively to deliver such munitions.


In terms of the K-120, seems like whomever wrote this just pulled from the same site. Fact remains, nobody has come up with even a scrap of information. Could it be bogus? Absolutely. Shorzoe Abe doesn't seem to think even the K-200 existed. He never did get back with me concerning the K-60 and K-120.


Wilcox says, however, that a lot of the immediate post-war Japanese nuclear program information remains classified. So, the story isn't closed yet.



For what it's worth...

Quote
the Japanese Navy ordered at Nakajima company to design the Nakajima G10N1 Fugaku(Mount Fuji)Ultra Long Range and Heavy Bomber with six engines, derived from italian designs sended for italian aircraft to arriving at Manchukuo expressly for Japanese Navy. the Kawanishi design other bomber similar, the Kawanishi TB Super Heavy Bomber and ones long range heavy Flying Boats with same purpose how Kawanishi K-60 Heavy Flying Boat, Kawanishi K-120 Heavy Flying Boat and Kawanishi K-200 Heavy Turbojet Flying Boat. and Nakajima why developed the Nakajima G8N1 "Renzan" (allied codename Rita) Heavy Bomber.

Source: http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Japanese-Nuclear-Energy-Development

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Kawanishi heavy flying boat projects (K-120, K-200, etc.)
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2013, 02:43:02 pm »
I agree with you, the existence of the K-120 and K-200 is speculative at best. I have found no reference to them in the many sources I have read, and I truly wonder where hesham got them from in the first place.

Going back to the K- list used by Kawanishi during the war, there are notable gaps:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,8767.0/all.html

However, there are four distinct Kawanishi projects contemporary or posterior to the K-90 that do not appear in the list:
  • 17-Shi Attack Bomber (sometimes found as G9K Gunzan but 1942 date contradicts this). Did this project exist at all?
  • 18-Shi Interceptor Fighter = J6K Jinpu (1943) (or was this just a variant of K-90?)
  • 20-Shi Carrier Fighter = A8K (1945)
  • Special Attacker (Project) = Baika (1945)
In all logic, the A8K and Baika at least would have received a designation such as K-110 or above. Perhaps the K-120 was simply one of these two?
« Last Edit: July 06, 2016, 02:28:47 am by Skyblazer »

Offline blackkite

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Re: Kawanishi heavy flying boat projects (K-120, K-200, etc.)
« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2013, 03:31:27 pm »
I can't find any information for Kawanishi Ki-120 in Japanese sources.
Japanese sources means mainly published books, inter net site. I did not contact to Shinmaywa directly.
I believe if Shinmaywa have some data for Ki-120, perhaps Japanese aeronautical historians already got them and published the books.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2013, 04:49:50 pm by blackkite »

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Kawanishi heavy flying boat projects (K-120, K-200, etc.)
« Reply #29 on: July 06, 2016, 02:28:00 am »
Merged from several topics.

The Kawanishi H11K1-L "Soku" Transport Flying Boat has a separate topic:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,14578.0/all.html

The postwar Kawanishi KX-03 giant 500-ton flying boat can be found here:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,17775.0/all.html
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,6111.msg237465.html#msg237465
« Last Edit: July 06, 2016, 02:30:21 am by Skyblazer »