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Author Topic: Airbus 300B Origins  (Read 10330 times)

Offline hesham

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Re: Airbus 300B Origins
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2011, 08:19:11 am »
Also;

HBN-102 and HBN-103 were double-deck mid-wing aircraft and HNB-104
was double-deck low-wing with rear mounted engines aircraft projects,
led to develop Airbus A.300.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2011, 07:15:45 am by hesham »

Offline Caravellarella

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Re: Airbus A300B origins have nothing to do with the BAC 3-11......
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2011, 02:33:26 pm »
I think we all need to remember that the BAC 3-11 and the Airbus Industrie A300B were contemporary and competitive designs and were not related to or derived from each other in any way, shape or form......

Terry (Caravellarella)
« Last Edit: September 08, 2012, 11:55:15 pm by PaulMM »
Because L'ORÉAL keeps telling me I'm worth it......
I can scarcely contain my indifference......
Maybe it's MAYBELLINE......
Vamp till ready......
RIMMEL; get the London Look......

Offline alertken

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Re: Airbus 300B Origins
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2011, 08:05:38 am »
No-one here should be deluded with thoughts that A300B had one parent. 3. Neither a Brit, or French, or W.German conception.

July,1964. BAC+Sud Avn. collaborating as a team on Concorde. Decisions driven by project benefit. Explore subsonic schemes to follow-on 1-11 and Caravelle. Solo schemes, too: dubble-bubble VC10; HSAL tried HS134. Big fans were on rig-test.

Oct.1965: DoD awards CX/HLS to Lockheed (to be C-5A)/GE TF39 (to be adapted as CF6). Also-rans Boeing/Pratt peddle a pax scheme.

Nov.65: the sole Euro-route that could sustain a wide-body is LHR-Paris. (UK Govt.) MoA funds Feasibility Studies at HSAL and BAC for a Big Twin, with a preference for industrial collaboration with France. UK's over-riding purpose was not to shift a few machines to BEAC + Air France, but to curry favour with CDG for a 2nd. UK application to join EEC. MoA presume power would be by RB178, funded 1961 (to be bench-run, July,1966).

April,1966: Big Twin Study Reports. HSAL: HBN-100 (Hatfield/Breguet/Nord Avn)/RB207 (RB178-variant). BAC: 2-11 (Short rear/Sud wing/RB211, a shrunk RB178), and Sud/BAC Galion (bigger engine to be defined).   

Summer,1966: 747-100/JT9D sold to everyone, inc. AF and BOAC. US carriers start discussing Transcontinental wide-bodies. Pratt enters work-sharing arrangements with BSEL and SNECMA.

7 October,1966:  Bristol Aeroplane Co. sells 50% BSEL/20% BAC (representing the Filton asset) to RR, who kill Euro-JT9D at speed of light, and take little interest in Filton work-share on Sud Galion.     

Articles and models from Breguet, Nord, Sud, everybody. Govts. hugely confused. UK/France flash their Big Pairs at Germania, UK hoping to entice her into AFVG and/or Jaguar (funded 17/5/65), and to be positive re EEC. W.German Govt. sponsors a grouping (to be Deutsche Airbus); France decides Nord Avn. shall settle for 50% of C.160, Breguet for 50% of Atlantique and Jaguar; such that the Big Twin shall go to Sud Avn., already credible in civil support on Caravelle. Internal-to-France production work-sharing will deal with overload, Concorde (hundreds of sales envisioned) + Twin. UK decides that BAC shall attend to AFVG/Jaguar and Saudi Magic Carpet (signed 5 May,1966).

10 May,1967: UK re-applies to join EEC.

29 June,1967: France kills AFVG.

25 July,1967: UK/France/FRG Memorandum of Understanding to do A300/RB207.
26 September, 1967: MoU to form Airbus Industrie, UK&France 37.5%/FRG 25%.

27 November,1967: CDG says Non, zut alors.

29 March,1968: RB211 becomes sole source, L.1011. (BAC flaunts its assets to Lockheed, seeking work-share).

16 April,1969: UK ceases to fund Airbus Industrie.

25 May,1969: France+FRG MoU to fund A300B-1; DC-10-10 pod/strut licenced; GE/SNECMA CF6-50. UK surprised. BAC puts £3Mn.in 3-11 and offers 40% workshare to Short, Yugoslavia/Romania, Italy, Japan…and FRG. FRG pays HSAL £100Mn. to take 18%, wing-supplier, role.

2 December,1970: UK Govt. declines Launch Aid for 3-11. (24 October,1978: UK buys 20% AI equity for BAe.)

Offline Caravellarella

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Re: Airbus 300B Origins
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2011, 02:43:57 pm »
Dear Alertken, thank you for such a concise analysis. I still find it disconcerting that this topic implies some link between the Airbus A-300 and the BAC 3-11 as both were unrelated competitive designs. The only thing they have in common is that the UK Government of the time refused to fund participation in either. It is like saying the McDonnell-Douglas DC-10 is the ancestor of the Lockheed L-1011 TriStar or vice-versa......

I feel like starting a new new topic on the Airbus A-300 :-\

Terry (Caravellarella)
Because L'ORÉAL keeps telling me I'm worth it......
I can scarcely contain my indifference......
Maybe it's MAYBELLINE......
Vamp till ready......
RIMMEL; get the London Look......

Offline LowObservable

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Re: Airbus 300B Origins
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2011, 03:46:37 pm »
The 3-11 was a last-ditch attempt by BAC to stay in the game as a major prime (before the BAe nationalization and merger brought it into the Airbus loop).

BTW, this history is interesting:

http://www.airspacemag.com/flight-today/cit-sweetman.html

Reminds you that "300" meant "300 seats" and that there was a deliberate move to back away from that design and the huge RB.207 engine, to the 250-seat "Kolk machine" that could have a choice of 747/trijet engines.

Offline hesham

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Re: Airbus 300B Origins
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2014, 02:04:41 pm »
Hi,


it is the first time to heard about Ten-Eleven,I know one,two and three Eleven,how
know more ?.


L + K magazine

Offline Arjen

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Re: Airbus 300B Origins
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2014, 12:08:56 am »
hesham, that is an early image of the Lockheed L-1011 Tristar (1011 - ten-eleven) which was in no way at all connected with BAC designs with similar names.

Offline hesham

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Re: Airbus 300B Origins
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2014, 05:11:14 am »
hesham, that is an early image of the Lockheed L-1011 Tristar (1011 - ten-eleven) which was in no way at all connected with BAC designs with similar names.


OK my dear Arjen,and thank you.

Offline Kiltonge

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Re: Airbus 300B Origins
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2015, 02:22:51 am »
Similar to foiling's 3-view above, but this time including a cross-section showing the standard nine-abreast cabin in the 6.4 metre-diameter fuselage.  Max high-density capacity was to be 320 seats at 10-abreast. 

Fuselage diameter was chosen to enable easy interlining with 747 baggage cans.  20 cm wider than a 777 which today flies with a similar seating configuration. 

From Flight in 1967.   By the launch of the A300B Airbus had compromised on 5.64 metres diameter with which they were stuck until the A350 ( and which only goes out to 5.97 m, so not really XWB... )
« Last Edit: December 21, 2015, 02:34:34 am by Kiltonge »


Offline Triton

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Re: Airbus 300B Origins
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2017, 07:53:52 pm »

Offline Triton

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Re: Airbus 300B Origins
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2017, 08:00:55 pm »

Offline Triton

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Re: Airbus 300B Origins
« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2017, 08:08:36 pm »
Merge with this topic?

"Towards the Airbus - The multi-national Anglo-French Approach...... "
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,12365.0.html