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Author Topic: Real or fake  (Read 120907 times)

Online Maveric

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Real or fake
« on: November 11, 2007, 03:38:43 am »
Hi all,

I need your help. Is this a real project or fake ???
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal4/3101-3200/Gal3116_Viking_Duros/gal3116.htm

Servus Maveric ::)
I see you on the dark side of the moon.

Offline flateric

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Offline Just call me Ray

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2007, 08:13:57 am »
ARC's Silly Week claims another one ;)
It's a crappy self-made pic of a Lockheed Unmanned Combat Armed Rotorcraft (UCAR), BTW
Even Saddam realized the hazard of airplanes, and was discovered hiding in a bunker.
- Skydrol from Airliners.net

Offline hesham

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China J-14 real or fake !
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2008, 05:37:56 am »
Hi,

China J-14 stealth aircraft,who know,it is real or fake !.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1600141/posts?page=9

Offline flateric

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Re: China J-14 real or fake !
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2008, 06:01:29 am »
oh damn! It's several years old fake. I think a contractor staff that made canopy glass with such a level of abberations, would be executed with gunfire immidiately
« Last Edit: April 16, 2008, 06:04:00 am by flateric »
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline sferrin

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Re: China J-14 real or fake !
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2008, 08:47:58 am »
Phony as a $3 bill.  I have a picture of the model in max at home.
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2008, 10:02:32 am »
Hi,

we know this ste very well, http://www.dataviewbooks.com/what-if.html
but there are many projects I don't know if they were a really projects
or fake.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2008, 11:31:26 am »
Not fakes, just what-Ifs ...   ;)

The twin-engined Martin is said to be from a patent, the Northrop
design with lift engines has similarities to the close support fighter
from around 1965, the Bell "aira designs", don't know if there ever
were such derivatives of the Airacuda and the "gyro" seems to be
a Gyrodyne with contra props with ABC rotor, I would think, it is
purely fictional ...
Wouldn't put much faith in this site !   ::)
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Merv_P

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2008, 12:00:47 pm »
No, I think the author's just let his (I'm assuming it's a 'he') imagination run free without the constraints of real life or real history getting in the way. Nothing wrong with that; it's what the What-If forum thrives on, for example.

I hadn't seen this site before; there are some interesting design ideas.


Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2008, 12:13:40 pm »
They are "real" insofar as they are based on actual patent drawings.
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Offline pometablava

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2008, 02:18:42 pm »
I think the author is Chris707 and the drawings are taken directly from reals patents

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2008, 03:47:58 am »


  Thank you my dears.

Offline r16

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2008, 01:33:23 am »
the question has already been satisfactorily answered and all ı can say is Chris707 had these or at least similare drawings in What if Forum  , at the time when ı was a member .

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2008, 10:12:52 am »

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2008, 10:34:11 am »
More explanations here:
http://www.fantastic-plastic.com/Rheinmetal-BorsigVTOL.htm,

Well, we probably have to call it "real", Fantastic Plastic thankfully has it in the
section "concept aircraft", and a "concept" can be an idea, someone had, when
he was totally stoned !
But, as we said in another thread, such concepts at least were useful for keeping
the designers away from the front ... although, I can imagine, that for such a design.
the designer would have been sent there straight !   ;D
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2009, 01:50:17 pm »

Offline hole in the ground

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2009, 02:43:53 pm »
I live in Southampton and I havent seen or heard anything of the like. The closest thing that it resembles to my mind is a Canberra with droptanks on the wings (but they are now out of service). I guess they got the engines located on the wrong 'bulges' and missed the tail.

It occurs two months before April so I guess it could be a real 'sighting' but redoubtably a mix-up in the identification.

Offline zerstorer1946

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2009, 09:56:07 am »
does anyone have any more info on the

Martin-Baker Spitfire Rammer proposal

and that huge u.s mistel thing ?
"Sorry mate, cant pick you up, the Messerschmitt's in the garage"

Offline Justo Miranda

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Offline zerstorer1946

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2009, 09:00:23 am »
oh wow! :o nice stuff justo!!
"Sorry mate, cant pick you up, the Messerschmitt's in the garage"

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2009, 12:55:55 pm »
A good model for 3D rendering...

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2009, 11:22:33 am »

Offline Tophe

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2009, 08:41:55 pm »
Please,are those a real aircraft or fake ?.
they are nice anyway... ;D

Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2009, 08:48:27 pm »


Please,are those a real aircraft or fake ?.
http://www.geocities.co.jp/HeartLand-Icho/3902/jf/jf_e_area8.html

Here's a hint:
This content idea came from the comic "Area 88", written by Kaoru Sintani.
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And so the endless circle of life comes to an end, meaningless and grim. Why did they live, and why did they die? No reason. Two hundred million years of evolution snuffed out, for in the end Nature is horrific and teaches us nothing

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #24 on: June 04, 2009, 11:09:50 am »
Hi,

was that a real Spaceshuttle project or not ?.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/publicresourceorg/494042595/

Offline XP67_Moonbat

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2009, 05:04:05 pm »
A proposal from the 1960's, eh? Maybe Orion knows. If anyone would know, its Scott.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2009, 05:21:31 pm by XP67_Moonbat »
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Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2009, 11:12:38 am »
Hi,

was this Kaiser HK-2 a real project or not ?.
http://www.aeroknow.com/images/hk2b.jpg

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2009, 11:30:56 am »
Never heard of it, but doesn't mean it wasn't in the works.
The Kaiser-Hughes HK-1 was of course the other designation of the gigantic Hughes H-4 Hercules flying-boat. This "HK-2" is merely a jet-powered version of the original Hercules... but I never heard of Howard Hughes planning to transform the HK-1 in such a way...
The HK-1 has always fueled popular imagination (movies such as Rocketeer, Tucker or Aviator come to mind) and it would of course make for interesting "what ifs", so who knows?

Offline Matej

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2009, 11:50:00 am »

Bizarre aviation expert.

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2009, 12:18:58 pm »
I love its looks, anyway. It was a great design for its time... shame it did only one hop over the sea...
The single Martin Mars was not as big or as handsome, but it still serves as a firebomber to this day!

Offline Barrington Bond

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2009, 12:47:11 pm »
Single Martin Mars?! Or did you mean to type singular? There are still two in existence of those built.

Regards,
Barry
"It hasn't squeaked in a week!"

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2009, 03:21:20 pm »
I meant the single surviving Mars... unaware that I was of a second aircraft still in existence! Wow!

Offline Barrington Bond

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #32 on: August 14, 2009, 10:59:28 pm »
"It hasn't squeaked in a week!"

Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #33 on: August 14, 2009, 11:22:16 pm »
Hi,

was that a real Spaceshuttle project or not ?.

I've not seen that one before, but I have seen early/mid 1960's designs that were similar. Such designs were not treated terribly seriously, and for obvious reasons.
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And so the endless circle of life comes to an end, meaningless and grim. Why did they live, and why did they die? No reason. Two hundred million years of evolution snuffed out, for in the end Nature is horrific and teaches us nothing

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #34 on: September 10, 2009, 01:05:32 pm »

Offline flateric

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #35 on: September 10, 2009, 01:51:02 pm »
oh, my
this is circulating for the third month
this is concept art from Alexander Dultzev aka Dueler http://duler.ru/design.html
« Last Edit: September 10, 2009, 01:53:20 pm by flateric »
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Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #36 on: October 01, 2009, 10:55:03 am »
Hi,

I don't know if those two projects to Heinkel He.162 were real or not,one was
equipped with two Argus As 014 pulsejets and the other was equipped with
single more powerful Argus As 044 pilsejet.

Offline pometablava

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #37 on: October 01, 2009, 11:31:51 am »
Pulse jet He 162 variants are real designs

He-162 A-10 the twin engined version

He-162 A-11 the single engined version

Source: Die Deutsche Luft-Rüstung 1933-45

Offline airman

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #38 on: October 02, 2009, 02:28:10 am »
nice stuff Justo, this images explain more about this concept variant of Spitfire !
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Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #39 on: October 13, 2009, 11:48:03 am »
Hi,

I think it was completely fake aircraft.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cutangus/3772696206/

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #40 on: November 24, 2009, 09:42:11 am »
Hi,

are those two fighter projects real or fake ?,I think they are fiction
designs.

Offline Matej

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #41 on: November 24, 2009, 09:44:52 am »
They are. First is the what-if J-XX design and the second is the render from Jozef Gatial that was based on the Paralay's early line drawing of the T-50 PAK FA.

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Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #42 on: December 03, 2009, 09:46:59 am »
Hi,

was this a real Lockheed ATF design ?.

Offline Matej

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #43 on: December 03, 2009, 10:01:25 am »
Fake. I knew that I have it somewhere and it is the rear cover of the Stealth Airplanes (from Osprey Publishing).

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Offline XP67_Moonbat

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #44 on: December 03, 2009, 10:17:53 am »
Reminds me of the plane on the cover of Stephen Coontz's novel The Minotaur.
In God we trust, all others we monitor. :-p

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #45 on: December 04, 2009, 09:51:40 am »
Hi,

was this a real Lockheed ATF design ?.

I don't know about Lockheed, but it's not too far off one of the winnowed-oout alternate Northrop ATF concepts that used their experience with vortex shaping and control.

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #46 on: February 10, 2010, 09:42:47 am »
To be honest,

I don't remember if we displayed this very large aircraft before or
not,but I am asking;is that a real aircraft design ?.

Offline Tophe

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #47 on: February 10, 2010, 09:55:37 am »
is that a real aircraft design ?.
I don't know but I love it ;D Thanks for sharing!

Offline flateric

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Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #49 on: February 11, 2010, 09:19:34 am »
Thank you my dears Tophe and Fateric very much,

and here is anther Russian Ekranoplane,is it real or not ?.

Offline ouroboros

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #50 on: February 12, 2010, 06:57:50 pm »
Thank you my dears Tophe and Fateric very much,

and here is anther Russian Ekranoplane,is it real or not ?.


This showed up in Popular Mechanics quite a while back. Possibly proposed, but likely just speculative art by an on-staff artist. I believe the text said this was intended for hauling cargo across the flat siberian tundra, which is functionally similar to an ocean surface, just with more obstacles like trees to avoid. Supposedly a mast mounted radar would help with that, along with pre-surveyed routes.

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #51 on: February 17, 2010, 10:14:41 am »
Hi,

was this a real aircraft project for Raymond Loewy or not ?.

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #52 on: February 17, 2010, 10:36:49 am »
Hmm... Raymond Loewy was a Colani of sorts. A designer by profession, capable of making the imagination soar by the unique shape of his creations (from trains to cigarette packages), but Loewy was no engineer, and this would-be airliner doesn't look like it would fly very well. Probably more an exercise in style than a real design submission...

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #53 on: February 17, 2010, 11:49:32 am »
Hmm... Raymond Loewy was a Colani of sorts. A designer by profession, capable of making the imagination soar by the unique shape of his creations (from trains to cigarette packages), but Loewy was no engineer, and this would-be airliner doesn't look like it would fly very well. Probably more an exercise in style than a real design submission...

Actually Loewy trained as an engineer as a young man in France.
Also industrial design inherently involves engineering.

The airplane was just one of the many background pieces done for the Loewy designed Chrysler Motors Building
at the 1939 New York World's Fair, the theme of which was Building the World of Tomorrow.

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #54 on: February 17, 2010, 12:06:04 pm »
Oops, thanks for correcting me on that! I knew Loewy was originally from my country, but I had no idea he had been trained as an engineer before turning to industrial design.

Offline Apophenia

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #55 on: February 20, 2010, 01:24:08 pm »
For aircraft, Loewy was probably best know for interior design -- eg: Howard Hughes' 307 Stratoliner and the original, B707 Air Force 1.

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #56 on: February 20, 2010, 10:37:07 pm »
For aircraft, Loewy was probably best know for interior design -- eg: Howard Hughes' 307 Stratoliner and the original, B707 Air Force 1.

Don't forget the Lockheed Constellation and Air France Concorde.  ;)

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #57 on: February 27, 2010, 08:44:37 am »
Hi,

is this a real fighter or not ?,it is in SAAB 2107 topic here;

http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?t=91659

Offline Hammer Birchgrove

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #58 on: February 27, 2010, 03:53:27 pm »
Hi,

is this a real fighter or not ?,it is in SAAB 2107 topic here;

http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?t=91659
It's real to my knowledge, the guy who designed it got interviewed by periodical Ny Teknik here. He said he couldn't defend his design because he was sick and unable to attend at the meeting IIRC. I've forgotten the link, I'll see if I can find it.
To the heroism of the Resistance Fighters -- past, present and future -- this post is respectfully dedicated.

Offline Hammer Birchgrove

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #59 on: February 27, 2010, 03:54:56 pm »
Here it is, hope you understand Swedish  ;) :

http://www.nyteknik.se/popular_teknik/smatt_gott/article370997.ece

"Örnen" means "The Eagle". Torsten Örnberg is the designer. He couldn't join the decision making due to gallstones.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 03:58:05 pm by Hammer Birchgrove »
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Offline Tophe

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #60 on: February 27, 2010, 09:48:35 pm »
Google translator (Babel Fish translator does not include Swedish) is free and helpful. Thanks Hammer. ;)

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #61 on: March 28, 2010, 10:02:23 am »
Hi,

I read in Internet that the SNCAC NC.1090 was carrier-based single
seat fighter project,I don't know if this aircraft was real or fake,and
may be it was misprint ?.

Offline Bailey

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #62 on: March 28, 2010, 11:14:05 am »
If you mean this page here : http://www.luftfahrtmuseum.com/htmi/itf/nc1080.htm , then it's a mistype, the page itself calls up the NC-1080 in the title.

Cheers Bailey.
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Offline Skyraider3D

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #63 on: March 30, 2010, 12:17:07 pm »
Something that flew out of my mind, some years ago:



Or a bit more streamlined and with clipped wings:


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Offline fightingirish

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #64 on: March 30, 2010, 12:51:51 pm »
 :o OmG. Mr. Mustang & Mrs. Corsair had kids... ;D
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Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #65 on: March 30, 2010, 04:15:48 pm »
Tophe? Tophe? Where are you? There's a new offspring in the larger P-51 family for you!

Offline Tophe

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #66 on: March 30, 2010, 10:13:13 pm »
I'm here, while I knew this marvel, already presented somewhere (what-if board?). Congratulations anyway to the designer/computer-handler... ;D

Offline Skyraider3D

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #67 on: March 31, 2010, 11:25:34 am »
Speaking of radiacal Mustang variants... how much truth is in this forward-swept wing one? I've always found it highly suspect!
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2397.0

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Offline Tophe

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #68 on: March 31, 2010, 08:27:05 pm »
I knew this one too. But I am only interested in shapes, not in Truth. I am a what-ifer, the first book I ever wrote was entitled "against Reality"...

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #69 on: May 15, 2010, 04:34:39 am »
Hi,

is this a real UAV or fake ?.

http://img408.imageshack.us/i/610xumg.jpg/

Offline flateric

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #70 on: May 15, 2010, 05:53:08 am »
this was BAe Systems concept AFAIR
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline Matej

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #71 on: May 15, 2010, 07:38:00 am »

Bizarre aviation expert.

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Offline fightingirish

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #73 on: June 26, 2010, 02:13:03 pm »
Hi,
was this a real spacecraft or not ?.
http://books.google.com/books?id=rk1Sivcwyc4C&pg=PA184&dq=spaceplane&hl=ar&ei=NxolTIuFK8uTjAeC7O1t&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=spaceplane&f=true
Quote
In January 1954, Walt Disney visited Wernher von Braun (holding XR-1 model) at the Redstone Arsenal in Huntsville, Alabama, where von Braun was the Chief of Guided Missile Development for the Army Ballistic Missile Agency (ABMA). Von Braun appeared in three episodes of Disney’s TV series about space exploration.
PHOTO: NASA
Source: http://www.german-way.com/famous-wernher-von-braun.html
See also the topic "Von Braun's Ferry Rocket of 1952".
Slán,
fightingirish

Slán ist an Irish Gaelic word for Goodbye.  :)

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #74 on: June 28, 2010, 05:11:06 am »

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #75 on: August 01, 2010, 05:40:43 am »
Hi,

is this a real project or not ?.

Offline fightingirish

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #76 on: August 01, 2010, 06:17:10 am »
It is a model from a aerospace engineering project at the Israeli University  "Technion" in Haifa, Israel.
Direct Link: http://pard.technion.ac.il/fastfacts/FramsFactsE.asp?myret=main
Shalom!  :)
« Last Edit: August 01, 2010, 06:20:49 am by fightingirish »
Slán,
fightingirish

Slán ist an Irish Gaelic word for Goodbye.  :)

Offline Triton

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #77 on: August 03, 2010, 12:07:24 pm »
Artist's impression of cargo-passenger winged NWA-06-10 SE. Real or fake?

Source: http://www.palio.ru/ekranoplan.htm

Offline Triton

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #78 on: August 03, 2010, 12:17:03 pm »

Offline Triton

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #79 on: August 03, 2010, 08:58:16 pm »

Offline Triton

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #80 on: August 03, 2010, 09:02:09 pm »

Offline Triton

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #81 on: August 04, 2010, 12:04:02 am »
Ekranoplan concept from "TM" magazine, Soviet Union, 1974.

Source: http://www.darkroastedblend.com/2009/06/ekranoplans-showcase-part-2.html

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #82 on: October 03, 2010, 04:06:14 am »
Hi,

I can't judge on this aircraft,is it a real design or just an imagination
of somebody ?.

Offline Matej

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Bizarre aviation expert.

Offline Skyraider3D

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www. A V I A T I O N A R T .aero
Please find my latest works on Facebook!

Offline Hammer Birchgrove

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To the heroism of the Resistance Fighters -- past, present and future -- this post is respectfully dedicated.

Offline dannydale

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #86 on: October 03, 2010, 02:32:44 pm »
Source: http://www.reaa.ru/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1253821561
Wow, a blended-wing-body ekranoplan with propfans That's awesome!

Toy: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Estes-XB-39-Eagleye-Radio-Control-Digital-Camera-Plane/4196237
That makes it a real UAV   :D
I would LOL if I wasn't at the library!  :D
Oh this is epic hilarity! I wonder if they purposely made it look like a concept desk model for an AWACS configuration? I think that's possibly where we got fooled.

Idea: think we can get Estes to maybe make an FDL-5 or X24-C (or any number of beastie we've catalogued here) as a model rocket? Imagine how awesome a Silbervogel or RATTLRS toy rocket can be, too!

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #87 on: January 22, 2011, 04:50:10 am »
Believe me I am not kidding,

is this a real Russian project or not ?,I just don't know.

Offline pometablava

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #88 on: January 22, 2011, 10:30:40 am »
That's real Hesham. It's E. A. Aframeyev's WIG Sea Launch space system published in Aviation and Space Herald magazine April 2001 issue. (Red Star Volume 8 Russia's Ekranoplans by Sergey Komissarov. Page 78)

Offline borovik

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #89 on: January 22, 2011, 11:35:44 am »

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #90 on: March 02, 2011, 07:04:20 am »
Hi,

is this a completely fake aircraft model ?.

http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,28290.15.html

Offline royabulgaf

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #91 on: March 02, 2011, 04:21:34 pm »
Pedrosope's models are all pure whiffery, but they look right, and plausible.  He's sort of a one-man Avpro.


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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #92 on: March 02, 2011, 08:11:20 pm »
Hi,

I can't judge on this aircraft,is it a real design or just an imagination
of somebody ?.

Looks like a CGI model of the proposed CSA (common support aircraft) that was meant to replace Intruder, Viking, Hawkeye and other USN carrier aircraft.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Support_Aircraft
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/csa-pics.htm

Offline aim9xray

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #93 on: March 02, 2011, 08:21:50 pm »
Well, further down the thread we find the builder stating:

Quote
hi guys ,well Greg my models are all scratch build some of them are based on existing projects, others are my own designs, as for the materials i use , for the fuselage i use polystyrene, the blue one, and for all the other parts, such as the wings, canards etc... i use plastic,all the materials are easy to find and very cheap.

           regards

             Pedro

Offline Tophe

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #94 on: April 13, 2011, 08:33:06 am »
I found this with Google. ??? Is this a true machine (with no other picture on the Web) or a fake photograph, well done? ;D
I tried to translate but it is still not clear. :-\
http://www.afwing.com/intro/p51/6.htm
http://translate.google.fr/translate?hl=fr&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.afwing.com%2Fintro%2Fp51%2F6.htm

Offline Tophe

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #95 on: April 13, 2011, 08:51:47 am »
On the same site, this seems to be a what-if "model" (a kind of bubble-less FTB), but all the rest is serious, true-life-story, so...? for the 51X above ???

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #96 on: April 13, 2011, 08:54:38 am »
These are obviously whifs... First because if these versions had existed, we'd have heard about them a long time ago... and also because it shows (especially the second one). You can't fool an old whiffer like me... LOL!

Offline Tophe

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #97 on: April 13, 2011, 09:22:15 am »
Thanks for your expertise ;D
I may check the serial of the P-51X anyway. So surprising (the windscreen is 51D not 51H, the fin is 51H not D or even bigger than 51H...) :-\

Edit: the code 489198 is not a Mustang's one (the last one being 45**** and 67****, see http://www.mustang.gaetanmarie.com/documents/serials.htm) and the code FE-193 is not a civilian one (see http://lamri.free.fr/CodesAvions.htm). The fake conclusion seems confirmed.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2011, 09:32:56 am by Tophe »

Offline Tophe

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #98 on: April 13, 2011, 10:09:45 am »
End of this investigation: what-if confirmed, that I found in 2004 (I had forgotten! so long after) shame on me... >:(
Mr Priestley link does not work anymore, or has changed.

Offline richard B

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #99 on: April 13, 2011, 10:29:31 am »
In Green's "Fighters" vol 4 p 141 ,there is a photo of the mock-up of a Mustang fitted with a RR Merlin aft of the cockpit : " y " is not a what-if , but a serious project.

Offline Tophe

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #100 on: April 13, 2011, 11:10:50 am »
The Rolls-Royce FTB (Flying Test Bed) is well known, but I was searching for unknown ones.
see http://www.unicraft.biz/bigph/mustangishiduka.htm

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #101 on: April 13, 2011, 11:46:19 am »
In Green's "Fighters" vol 4 p 141 ,there is a photo of the mock-up of a Mustang fitted with a RR Merlin aft of the cockpit : " y " is not a what-if , but a serious project.

Oh? Wow. But the question was about the image itself, and that is surely a re-creation.

Offline Apophenia

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #102 on: April 13, 2011, 01:01:53 pm »
In Green's "Fighters" vol 4 p 141 ,there is a photo of the mock-up of a Mustang fitted with a RR Merlin aft of the cockpit : " y " is not a what-if , but a serious project.

Oh? Wow. But the question was about the image itself, and that is surely a re-creation.

It is. I was inspired by that mockup in Green and was just speculating about what it would look like built. The other Mustang was only some whiffy nonsense I did for fun (there was also a front view of a Griffon engined 'Stang with contra-props).

The original website had disclaimers explaining that these were What-Ifs. I should've known that this stuff would get posted elsewhere without the disclaimers  :P

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #103 on: April 13, 2011, 06:42:24 pm »
The original website had disclaimers explaining that these were What-Ifs. I should've known that this stuff would get posted elsewhere without the disclaimers  :P

I've got over 300 fake aircraft posted on the web, a good half of which are photo works that are extremely believeable. My pages have disclaimers too, but still I expect that sort of thing to happen one day, as it already has with one of my fake cars (it was circulated worldwide on forums and still lives a life of its own despite my disclaimers and attempt to get the record straight!!!).

Offline Steve Pace

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #104 on: April 13, 2011, 06:48:19 pm »
Don't forget the Griffon-powered CAC CA-15 Mustang look alike. -SP
When you know you're right, go ahead.

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #105 on: April 13, 2011, 09:29:59 pm »
I own the book "Griffon-powered Mustangs" (see http://www.amazon.com/Griffon-Powered-Mustangs-Raceplane-Tech-Vol/dp/1580070345), built and flown and Reno-winners, and the thrill for me was not there, just on 2 unknown silhouettes.
By the way, my double-twin-Mustangs (fake picture of mine) has also appeared on another Web site without saying where it comes from (while my site was entitled "fake aircraft photos for fun")...

Offline Apophenia

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #106 on: April 14, 2011, 01:03:17 pm »
I've got over 300 fake aircraft posted on the web, a good half of which are photo works that are extremely believeable. My pages have disclaimers too, but still I expect that sort of thing to happen one day, as it already has with one of my fake cars (it was circulated worldwide on forums and still lives a life of its own despite my disclaimers and attempt to get the record straight!!!).

Yep, count on it. In the worst case scenario, posters will try to pass off the whif as real. That Mustang image does puzzle me though. It's got mildly swept wings, contraprops, and an enlarged tail but it is supposed to be illustrating a section on XP-51F/G/Js !?

In some cases there will be genuine mistaken identities (a purely conceptual tank upgrade of mine was described on a European tank crew discussion group as depicting a built prototype - although this may have been an ESL issue or simply grabbing an unattributed image from another discussion group.).

And then there's Chinese sites like the one Tophe found that seem to grab (or hotlink) images almost randomly. (Others will try to pass off the images as their own.) I've seen re-posted images of mine on other afwing.com pages where depicted equipment is mis-identified despite the correct designation having been included in the re-used image name! Go figure  :o

Offline Tophe

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #107 on: April 14, 2011, 08:54:29 pm »
And then there's Chinese sites like the one Tophe found
Chinese? I was very sure this was Japanese (26 years ago when I bought my first computer, there was no computer in China...). But translating from Chinese instead of Japanese gives a full translation, thanks! ;D
[I just feel very old :'( ... and the what-if/fake side is confirmed not-mentioned... :-\ ]

Offline frank

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #108 on: April 16, 2011, 08:39:10 am »
     If you look at the horizontal tails, they're mildly swept too. My guess is they used the modified Lear Jet wings & tail from the air racer Learstang 'Vendetta'. http://www.internetmodeler.com/1999/august/first-looks/vendetta.htm
     I'm guessing the nose & c/r props are fron the Red Baron RB-51 air racer or another similar Griffon powered c/r prop equipped air racer that I can't recall the name, maybe even a relative to Vendetta.


I've got over 300 fake aircraft posted on the web, a good half of which are photo works that are extremely believeable. My pages have disclaimers too, but still I expect that sort of thing to happen one day, as it already has with one of my fake cars (it was circulated worldwide on forums and still lives a life of its own despite my disclaimers and attempt to get the record straight!!!).

Yep, count on it. In the worst case scenario, posters will try to pass off the whif as real. That Mustang image does puzzle me though. It's got mildly swept wings, contraprops, and an enlarged tail but it is supposed to be illustrating a section on XP-51F/G/Js !?

In some cases there will be genuine mistaken identities (a purely conceptual tank upgrade of mine was described on a European tank crew discussion group as depicting a built prototype - although this may have been an ESL issue or simply grabbing an unattributed image from another discussion group.).

And then there's Chinese sites like the one Tophe found that seem to grab (or hotlink) images almost randomly. (Others will try to pass off the images as their own.) I've seen re-posted images of mine on other afwing.com pages where depicted equipment is mis-identified despite the correct designation having been included in the re-used image name! Go figure  :o
« Last Edit: April 16, 2011, 10:05:18 am by frank »

Offline frank

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #109 on: April 16, 2011, 10:04:03 am »
     I do believe now it's based on "Miss Ashley II". Basically Miss Ashley II with a stock canopy & WWII markings. http://aafo.com/racing/news/98/12-08-98.htm


    If you look at the horizontal tails, they're mildly swept too. My guess is they used the modified Lear Jet wings & tail from the air racer Learstang 'Vendetta'. http://www.internetmodeler.com/1999/august/first-looks/vendetta.htm
     I'm guessing the nose & c/r props are fron the Red Baron RB-51 air racer or another similar Griffon powered c/r prop equipped air racer that I can't recall the name, maybe even a relative to Vendetta.


I've got over 300 fake aircraft posted on the web, a good half of which are photo works that are extremely believeable. My pages have disclaimers too, but still I expect that sort of thing to happen one day, as it already has with one of my fake cars (it was circulated worldwide on forums and still lives a life of its own despite my disclaimers and attempt to get the record straight!!!).

Yep, count on it. In the worst case scenario, posters will try to pass off the whif as real. That Mustang image does puzzle me though. It's got mildly swept wings, contraprops, and an enlarged tail but it is supposed to be illustrating a section on XP-51F/G/Js !?

In some cases there will be genuine mistaken identities (a purely conceptual tank upgrade of mine was described on a European tank crew discussion group as depicting a built prototype - although this may have been an ESL issue or simply grabbing an unattributed image from another discussion group.).

And then there's Chinese sites like the one Tophe found that seem to grab (or hotlink) images almost randomly. (Others will try to pass off the images as their own.) I've seen re-posted images of mine on other afwing.com pages where depicted equipment is mis-identified despite the correct designation having been included in the re-used image name! Go figure  :o
« Last Edit: April 16, 2011, 10:06:04 am by frank »

Offline Tophe

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #110 on: April 16, 2011, 10:08:21 am »
Thanks. So this was a fake picture mixing P-51D canopy and racer remaining. All right. Fake from real.

Offline Apophenia

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #111 on: April 16, 2011, 12:36:29 pm »
Nope, sorry frank. When I did the retouch, I doubt that I'd even heard of the Learstang Vendetta. I hadn't heard of  Miss Ashley II until today.

I forget which airshow Mustang I based my what-if on but, as I recall, it was a near-stock P-51D. The 'contra-props' were cloned, the wings and horizontal tail skewed in PhotoShop, and the 'enlarged' vertical tail was just a 'D model unit stretched to what I imagined might be required by such an aircraft.

The key point was that it was all a bit of silliness done for fun. And there were disclaimers attached as part of the text on the original website. Either that Chinese site's webmaster didn't read the original or didn't care.

BTW: another unintentional 'product' of that old website was Unicraft's 1/72nd scale model of a single engined 'Bf-109TL'. Again, there were disclaimers (indeed, I also described and illustrated Messerschmitt's actual twin 004B project) but I don't know if Igor saw that disclaimer.

Offline Tophe

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #112 on: April 16, 2011, 09:38:49 pm »
Congratulations and thanks Apophenia, for having created this wonderful fake photograph. ;D
Concerning the single-engined Bf-109TL, was it asymmetrical or central? Have you kept a picture of it?

Offline frank

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #113 on: April 17, 2011, 03:19:14 pm »


http://www.klueser.eu/graphwindow.php?index=1178


Congratulations and thanks Apophenia, for having created this wonderful fake photograph. ;D
Concerning the single-engined Bf-109TL, was it asymmetrical or central? Have you kept a picture of it?

Offline Tophe

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #114 on: April 17, 2011, 08:11:41 pm »
Thanks, this is a pleasant fake... ;D

Offline Apophenia

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #115 on: April 18, 2011, 02:49:22 pm »
Congratulations and thanks Apophenia, for having created this wonderful fake photograph. ;D
Concerning the single-engined Bf-109TL, was it asymmetrical or central? Have you kept a picture of it?

Thanks Tophe. Attached is a cropped version of that fake Bf-109TL. A lot of years have gone by and now I see so many things I'd do differently. Ah well ...

I also notice a few differences from the version Igor has kitted -- mine has the tall wooden tail and the nose intake is deeper (to make sure that the Jumo 004B would actually have fit on the belly).
« Last Edit: April 18, 2011, 02:51:27 pm by Apophenia »

Offline Tophe

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #116 on: April 18, 2011, 10:01:52 pm »
Delicious thanks! ;D (while maybe a little out of this topic's subject: this is a pleasant fake not yet an unknown mystery ;))

Offline Tophe

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #117 on: May 08, 2011, 08:59:36 pm »
I found with Google an unknown twin-boomer, either fake or not, I don't know.
It is at http://kungaloosh2.sakraft.com/book/1-82.html
The word "tales" in the address made me think of a dreamy what-if and to check I looked at the page before
but this one is very true: http://kungaloosh2.sakraft.com/book/1-81.html
so... I just don't know.

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #118 on: May 09, 2011, 01:12:23 am »
Nice but all fake... Apparently TaleSpin was a Disney animated cartoon series. Here's what the TaleSpin website says... (red type is mine)

Quote
Imagine another Earth — similar to ours, yet altogether different — set in a time period reflecting the golden age of air travel. Put in a handful of characters from one of Walt Disney's animated classics and give them new lives; add a generous helping of never-before-seen people, places, and things; blend humor and drama in equal parts; cram in as much fun and adventure as you can, adding a dash of danger and a healthy dose of heart-filled storytelling. You now have the formula for what is an unsung highlight of animated television — a series which many consider to be the finest the Disney Company ever released.

TaleSpin, a spin-off loosely based on Walt Disney's 1967 adaptation of The Jungle Book, stars Baloo Bear as an ace pilot from the harbor city of Cape Suzette, in a fantasy world whose citizens are clothed, talking animal-people. The fuzzy, fun-loving bear and his new best buddy, navigator Kit Cloudkicker, fly deliveries for an air cargo company called "Higher for Hire" run by Rebecca Cunningham, sharp businesswoman and caring mother of young daughter Molly. Their compatriots include the singing orangutan Louie, now the proud manager of a swinging island nightclub, and also Higher for Hire's trusty, rust-brained mechanic Wildcat.

Aboard the fabulous airplane the Sea Duck, these "friends for life" travel to distant places, finding high-flying action and adventure (or rather, it finds them) as they run afoul of adversaries such as Don Karnage, egomaniacal leader of the dreaded Air Pirates; Shere Khan, CEO of the largest corporation in the world, Khan Industries; and Colonel Spigot, tyrannical commander from the frozen, communist country of Thembria. Through thick and thin, the heroes learn valuable lessons on courage, honesty, and friendship, always winning as they team up to turn things around on troublemakers.

TaleSpin officially debuted on syndicated television on September 9, 1990, with the premiere of its introductory TV-movie "Plunder & Lightning." Fans since justifiably view the series as the pinnacle of the Disney Afternoon's program lineup, as well as one of the best shows (animated or otherwise) of its decade. In spite of critical praise (best embodied by the Emmy Award won by "Plunder & Lightning" and an Emmy nomination for all 65 episodes), TaleSpin seemed undeservedly downplayed by its parent company. Yet its quality has earned the appreciation of many who seek to preserve this special series for generations to come.


Quote
The TaleSpin world is filled with aircraft of every kind. Air freight and shipping is the lifeblood of commerce and industry, and cargo planes of every kind sail the affluent skies, from the outdated but well-beloved Conwing L-16 to huge super-transports carrying several tons of cargo.

The safety of the skies is equally important. Air pirates lurk the shipping lanes aboard huge airships, pouncing on unwary merchant planes in their fast, deadly fighter craft. In response, coast guard forces and the military are equipped with the swiftest of modern fighters to curtail the pirate threat. Khan Industries leads the world in shipping and exports due primarily to its vast fleet of cargo transports, and employs the most advanced fighter craft to protect company interests.


Sources:
http://talespinsourcepage.i8.com/introduction.htm
http://talespinsourcepage.i8.com/aircraft.htm
http://talespinsourcepage.i8.com/equipment_3.htm

« Last Edit: May 09, 2011, 12:16:03 pm by Stargazer2006 »

Offline Tophe

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #119 on: May 09, 2011, 10:08:15 am »
Thanks for this explanation, clear and complete.

Offline Tophe

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #120 on: May 11, 2011, 02:17:59 am »
On my computer I found this picture I got on the Web but that Google seems to find no more: 1913 Voisin "Petit Blindé".
Does someone know if this was true or is this is a fake picture of nowadays from old sources?
Thanks.

Offline richard

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #121 on: May 11, 2011, 03:19:08 am »
Bonjour

It's true : flown in 1913 ,and used by the french army untill august 1914 .
Engine was an inline 200 hp Clerget-Blin (fom Aviation Magazine)

Offline Tophe

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #122 on: May 11, 2011, 07:08:03 am »
Bonjour Richard,
Thanks to you and me and someone, this rare model may now (or soon) be found with Google.

Offline Hammer Birchgrove

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #123 on: May 13, 2011, 10:08:04 am »
Nice but all fake... Apparently TaleSpin was a Disney animated cartoon series. Here's what the TaleSpin website says... (red type is mine)

Quote
Imagine another Earth — similar to ours, yet altogether different — set in a time period reflecting the golden age of air travel. Put in a handful of characters from one of Walt Disney's animated classics and give them new lives; add a generous helping of never-before-seen people, places, and things; blend humor and drama in equal parts; cram in as much fun and adventure as you can, adding a dash of danger and a healthy dose of heart-filled storytelling. You now have the formula for what is an unsung highlight of animated television — a series which many consider to be the finest the Disney Company ever released.

TaleSpin, a spin-off loosely based on Walt Disney's 1967 adaptation of The Jungle Book, stars Baloo Bear as an ace pilot from the harbor city of Cape Suzette, in a fantasy world whose citizens are clothed, talking animal-people. The fuzzy, fun-loving bear and his new best buddy, navigator Kit Cloudkicker, fly deliveries for an air cargo company called "Higher for Hire" run by Rebecca Cunningham, sharp businesswoman and caring mother of young daughter Molly. Their compatriots include the singing orangutan Louie, now the proud manager of a swinging island nightclub, and also Higher for Hire's trusty, rust-brained mechanic Wildcat.

Aboard the fabulous airplane the Sea Duck, these "friends for life" travel to distant places, finding high-flying action and adventure (or rather, it finds them) as they run afoul of adversaries such as Don Karnage, egomaniacal leader of the dreaded Air Pirates; Shere Khan, CEO of the largest corporation in the world, Khan Industries; and Colonel Spigot, tyrannical commander from the frozen, communist country of Thembria. Through thick and thin, the heroes learn valuable lessons on courage, honesty, and friendship, always winning as they team up to turn things around on troublemakers.

TaleSpin officially debuted on syndicated television on September 9, 1990, with the premiere of its introductory TV-movie "Plunder & Lightning." Fans since justifiably view the series as the pinnacle of the Disney Afternoon's program lineup, as well as one of the best shows (animated or otherwise) of its decade. In spite of critical praise (best embodied by the Emmy Award won by "Plunder & Lightning" and an Emmy nomination for all 65 episodes), TaleSpin seemed undeservedly downplayed by its parent company. Yet its quality has earned the appreciation of many who seek to preserve this special series for generations to come.


Quote
The TaleSpin world is filled with aircraft of every kind. Air freight and shipping is the lifeblood of commerce and industry, and cargo planes of every kind sail the affluent skies, from the outdated but well-beloved Conwing L-16 to huge super-transports carrying several tons of cargo.

The safety of the skies is equally important. Air pirates lurk the shipping lanes aboard huge airships, pouncing on unwary merchant planes in their fast, deadly fighter craft. In response, coast guard forces and the military are equipped with the swiftest of modern fighters to curtail the pirate threat. Khan Industries leads the world in shipping and exports due primarily to its vast fleet of cargo transports, and employs the most advanced fighter craft to protect company interests.


Sources:
http://talespinsourcepage.i8.com/introduction.htm
http://talespinsourcepage.i8.com/aircraft.htm
http://talespinsourcepage.i8.com/equipment_3.htm



Conwing was a fictionalized version of Boeing, though the aircraft itself is based on the Fairchild C-82 transport and the Grumman HU-16 amphibian aircraft. :)

The serial was also partially inspired by the 1982 (live action) TV serial Tales of the Gold Monkey and by Sam's and Rebecca's relationship in Cheers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tale_Spin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tales_of_the_Gold_Monkey
To the heroism of the Resistance Fighters -- past, present and future -- this post is respectfully dedicated.

Offline dannydale

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #124 on: May 14, 2011, 08:28:46 am »
Yeah, that's the Sea Duck, alright. I grew up watching that show as a kid. Baloo and his friends are constantly getting that thing shot up by Don Karnage's air pirates. If we could get an air-to-air Exocet missile under the Sea Duck's wings, DK would be cooked. Shere Khan would get mighty interested in Baloo's newfound weapons technology, however... ;D

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #125 on: May 17, 2011, 06:04:44 am »
A company going by the name Hydro Lance Corporation is advertising their "High-Speed Large-Aircraft Float-Pontoons" and Hydro-Lance (HARTH) technology, but all they seem to produce on their website is a string of not too convincing computer graphics.

Amidst their "Fast Patrol boats", their "Super Yachts" and their "Patrol Interceptors", there is a project for "HARTH Hi-Bred Flight-Pontoons Retrofit For Heavy Aircraft", a floating apparatus supposed to be fitted to a Hercules transport for take-off and landing from the sea's surface (albeit with the help of auxiliary jets on either side of the fuselage).

My question is: is this a realistic arrangement? Or are we in the presence of another aspiring inventor merely trying to pass of his dreams for reality? Most of all, is there such a thing as a "Hydro Lance Corporation"? Existence of a website in itself being anything but proof, since anyone can create a site and claim just about anything... My main reason for doubting is that there is absolutely NO photograph on the site, not even a scale model, let alone a prototype...

Offline Graham1973

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #126 on: May 19, 2011, 05:40:49 pm »
Found on a book cover. The novels plot has some eerie similarities to United 232 (The Sioux City Crash) in that tail damage locks the plane into a continuous turn and disaster is averted due to the pilots aerobatic experience.

The aircraft in the novel seems to be a thinly disguised Tristar. The cover on the other hand has what seems to be a cross between a Boeing & a Tupolev (Tu-104)

Offline royabulgaf

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #127 on: May 26, 2011, 07:12:31 pm »
This is kind of awkward to explain.  There are many people on this board who will post designs of fictitious aircraft, a/c in fictitious markings, etc.  There are people who create fantasy corporations for their own amusement.  I think this falls into that category.  Of course we are all familiar with real corporations that never produced anything but pretty websites, also. 

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #128 on: May 26, 2011, 09:38:42 pm »
My question is: is this a realistic arrangement?

Searching for "High Aspect Ratio Twin Hull" shows, that this concept still is regarded with a lot
of scepticism, because those very long and slender fuselages may mean a lot of material and weight
and still may be very prone to bending loads. With regards to the use of this technology for
seaplanes, it puzzles me, that those twin hulls are principally designed to stay under the surface to
achieve low drag and enable high speed. So I cannot imagine, that it's a very suitable technology for
seaplanes and the "Fat Albert" and the Boeing 727 are certainly meant  to take off, though, there are
other projects on the site for conversion of jet liners into high speed ships.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2011, 09:54:54 pm by Jemiba »
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Triton

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #129 on: May 31, 2011, 11:52:11 pm »
I found the attached image at The Transport Archive:

Quote
G1539  An artists impression of a VTOL passenger aircraft that could operate from a suitable building in a city. These drawings date from the 1960's and we are a long way from seeing this type of transport in our cities.
Publisher    Bristol Siddeley
Contributor    Rolls-Royce Plc
Creator    corporatename, British Aircraft Corporation; ,
Date    , ; ,
Type    Drawings, Artists impression; ,
Format    dimension.W, 187mm; , ; , ; ,
Identifier    E139346
Source    Rolls Royce Heritage Trust
Language    EN
Relation    , ; , ; , ; ,
Coverage    Location.Creation Site, Filton; , ; , ; ,
Rights    Rights as agreed and detailed in signed agreement
File created 4:2:1, 17/5/2004

Source:
http://www.aviationarchive.org.uk/Gpages/html/G1539.html

It certainly isn't a VTOL airliner, but could this be an artist's impression of the BAC QSTOL?
« Last Edit: June 01, 2011, 12:17:19 am by Triton »

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #130 on: February 21, 2012, 02:48:50 pm »

Offline Tophe

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #131 on: February 21, 2012, 09:59:47 pm »
If you click on older or more recent, you will see other fantasies, yes.

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #132 on: February 26, 2012, 03:33:35 pm »
This is Jose Garcia's work. The guy is a genius!!

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #133 on: April 24, 2012, 04:21:58 pm »
Hi,


I think this AirShip VTOL UAV,a completely fake,am I right ?.

http://www.airshiptg.org/
« Last Edit: April 25, 2012, 02:49:38 pm by hesham »

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #134 on: April 24, 2012, 09:35:04 pm »
Don't think it's a fake, but the questions is, what's the probability of this
vehicle ever being realised ? The "AirShip Technologies Group" still seems not to
be a company in common sense, but a number of volunteers, who are working on
this project during their spare time (unpaid, of course !). You can join this group
by yourself and chose the field, you would like to work at :http://www.airshiptg.org/collaborationroles.htm
To me it seems, that still yet only a number of fancy drawings and computer renderings
were, done, maybe by the CEO himself, if he still is the leader of a one-man-team !  ;) 
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Michel Van

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #135 on: April 25, 2012, 04:52:15 am »
some one ask me, if i know this aircraft
never see before
real or piece of artwork ?


the source, so guy tell me was blog post with 10 most ugly and bizarre military aircaft
but no info about what is show on the picture  >:(
I love Strange Technology

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #136 on: April 25, 2012, 04:58:45 am »
Glad you mention this one! I have also a picture of that project and never knew what it was or what to do with it...

Offline Matej

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #137 on: April 25, 2012, 09:29:30 am »
It is the work of designer, French maybe. I am sure I saw it before, hmm...

Bizarre aviation expert.

Offline Machdiamond

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #138 on: April 26, 2012, 02:31:32 pm »
This is Marc Newson's Kelvin 40.
Already discussed here: http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2824.0
--Luc

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #139 on: April 26, 2012, 02:49:31 pm »
Don't think it's a fake, but the questions is, what's the probability of this
vehicle ever being realised ? The "AirShip Technologies Group" still seems not to
be a company in common sense, but a number of volunteers, who are working on
this project during their spare time (unpaid, of course !). You can join this group
by yourself and chose the field, you would like to work at :http://www.airshiptg.org/collaborationroles.htm
To me it seems, that still yet only a number of fancy drawings and computer renderings
were, done, maybe by the CEO himself, if he still is the leader of a one-man-team !  ;)


Thank you my dear Jemiba

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #140 on: April 26, 2012, 04:57:04 pm »
This is Marc Newson's Kelvin 40.
Already discussed here: http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2824.0
--Luc

Thanks Luc! I would never have found it without your help! Apparently it was created as pure design work and never meant to actually fly...

Offline Triton

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #141 on: May 01, 2012, 11:51:37 am »
From paralay, LMFS (Liogkiy Mnogofunktsionalniy Frontovoi Samolyot)  circa 2003:

Source:
http://www.paralay.com/lmfs.html

Fighter -25 (I-25A) flat nozzle

Side view of 18.97 m
Top view of 63.1 m
Front view of 5.62 m
The volume of 18.88 cubic meters
Wing Area 39 square meters
Fuel system
Fuselage tanks   15.44 x 5.36 x 1.49
Volume of 4.98 cubic meters
Weight 3900 kg of fuel
Wing tanks 7.66 x 0.55 x 1.1
Volume of 1.7 cubic meters
Weight 1335 kg of fuel
The total weight of fuel 5235 kg / 7035 kg (2 x 900 kg)

Range

Consumption cruise   0.62 kg / kg * h
Flow rate at maximum   0.75 kg / kg * h
Range, complete filling of the PTB + 4600 km
The range of 1600 km
Range, complete filling of 3,400 km,
The range of 1200 km
Range, the fuselage tank 2,500 km
The range of 900 km
Weight:
Maximum 9500 + 5235 + 100 + 5000 + 200 (4 CRA 50 kg) = 20 035 kg
A normal 9500 + 3900 + 100 + 600 = 14100 kg
Empty 9500 kg
Fuel               3900 kg / 5235 kg
Loads                          600 kg / 5,000 kg
Load:
normal 2 P-73 + 2 P-77 = 220 kg + 380 kg = 600 kg
the maximum 6 AB-500 AB-4 + 500 = 5000 kg, plus four underwing CRA of 50 kg
Ferry range.
Take-off weight of 9500 kg + 100 kg + 5235 kg + 1125 x 4 + 400 kg (db) = 19 735 kg
Fuel Weight 5235 kg + 900 kg x 4 = 8835 kg
Range of 5800 km

 
« Last Edit: May 01, 2012, 01:36:09 pm by Triton »

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #142 on: May 01, 2012, 12:54:19 pm »
Triton, is this real, or fake? And what manufacturer is this supposed to be from?

Offline Triton

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #143 on: May 01, 2012, 01:02:29 pm »
Triton, is this real, or fake? And what manufacturer is this supposed to be from?

That's what I am trying to determine, hence posting in the "Real or fake" topic. If I understand the text written by paralay via Google Translate, it is a United Aircraft Corporation project and isn't designated as a Mikoyan or Sukhoi project.

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #144 on: July 17, 2012, 03:39:58 pm »
I think it is a completely fake heavy strategic bomber.




Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #145 on: July 17, 2012, 04:22:15 pm »
Yeah. Illegitimate daughter of a Raptor and a Blackjack!!!

Offline Grzesio

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #146 on: July 24, 2012, 03:03:27 am »
And what about the Blohm & Voss MGRP? Do we have any hard evidence, it is a real wartime project?

http://www.luft46.com/bv/bvrmist.html

The whole concept looks strange to me, especially that there's practically no place for fuel left in the 'carrier' aircraft, for its return flight. The space for radar and avionics seem to be rather cramped too.
And the name, Manuell Gesteuertes Raketen Projektil, is strange for the German standards... Especially that the thing is powered by a ramjet, not a rocket.

I'd say it looks as real as the "Lippisch glider bomber' to me.

Regards

Grzesio
« Last Edit: July 24, 2012, 03:07:17 am by Grzesio »

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #147 on: October 02, 2012, 08:45:59 am »
Was this a real ramjet powered interceptor or not ?.

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #148 on: October 02, 2012, 08:53:13 am »
Was this a real ramjet powered interceptor or not ?.

hesham, as the text suggests, it is an "award" to a reader of the magazine... In other words, an imaginary design by an aviation enthusiasts which ranked second in that magazine's contest, not an industry project at all!

Offline fightingirish

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #149 on: October 02, 2012, 09:53:31 am »
Quote
It's a "what if" jet/rocket interceptor that was part of a magazine contest. [...] didn't let me know in the email which issue date of Air Trails it came out of, but this sort of thing was what they were doing with their readers in the late 40s and early 50s. I note at the bottom of the page (in a part of the illustration that I cropped away) that the winning entry each month received a $25 prize, while the runners up (2nd and 3rd place) got $5 each. 
Source: http://www.jetex.org/scripts/yabb2/nph-YaBB.pl?num=1258848483;start=all
BTW, this was my starting point, when I was googling for the Tremulis fighter a few days ago.  ;)
Slán,
fightingirish

Slán ist an Irish Gaelic word for Goodbye.  :)

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #150 on: December 05, 2012, 05:16:20 pm »
A Sikorsky S-58 with normal tail and huge contra-rotating propellers in the nose... Is this picture a fake? Thanks for any pointers!

Offline Bill Walker

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #151 on: December 05, 2012, 05:35:38 pm »
Since the normal single engine has been removed, and I don't see any signs of alternate air inlets or exhausts, I vote fake.
Bill Walker

Offline Abraham Gubler

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #152 on: December 05, 2012, 05:43:50 pm »
Also since the helicopter is angled to the left and the propeller to the right its not even a well done photo fake.
"There is a tendency in our planning to confuse the unfamiliar with the improbable." Thomas Schelling

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Offline Jemiba

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #154 on: December 28, 2012, 06:19:25 am »
The "source" probably is a book written by Friedrich Georg ! He's an "author", who still "proves", that Germany was just
about to win the war and that finishing the German A-bomb was just around the corner ...
And somebody else did some kitbashing to portray his idea of, well a Mistel-Rocket-Fighter/Bomber ...
Just my opinion, but I think it's BS..... eehm,... "fake " !
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #155 on: January 03, 2013, 02:17:19 pm »
Hi,


I know we spoke about EMW A-11 in this topic;
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,11393.msg108457.html#msg108457


but was that a real A-11 project?,may be its variant;
http://discaircraft.greyfalcon.us/HERMANN%20NOORDUNG%20WOHNRAD.htm

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #156 on: January 04, 2013, 12:24:57 am »
Many questions are already answered in the thread, you've mentioned, hard data are said tobe very scarce,
all what is published, is more or less pure speculation. The A11 is said to have had 6 eocket engines, although
a model shows 8 of them. If you look at this drawing, you'll find ... 7 nozzles, that means 7 engines, all in a
line ! To me, this seems not to be a very probable layout, to say the least.
And, although nearly all sites contain at least a grain of truth, the source here is the "greyfalcon" site again,
a site we discussed several times before and always with the result: Not recommended with regards to credibility!
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #157 on: January 04, 2013, 04:10:10 am »
OK my dear Jemiba.

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #158 on: January 11, 2013, 08:40:26 am »
Hi,


was this a real Ekranoplane design?,or it is just a model.


http://www.infoflotforum.ru/index.php?showtopic=37159&st=70

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #159 on: February 14, 2013, 05:10:02 am »
Hi,


there is an article about French very large flying tank in old French magazine,
and re-publish here;Der fliegende Panzer" LUFTFAHRT international 13


was it a real project?,I think it was a fake.

http://alternathistory.org.ua/letayushchii-tank-frantsiya

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #160 on: February 14, 2013, 09:35:40 pm »
We already had it here, I think, just cannot find the thread in the moment. You're right, it
was a "fake", or better, it was a kind of fanciful prospect and probably not meant seriously.
Originally it was published in a french magazine and to me, it looks more like a caricature.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #161 on: February 15, 2013, 03:41:14 am »
I think so my dear Jemiba,


but why it was published in a magazine,that magazine spoke about real aircraft only ?,
it was just a dream from French designer.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #162 on: February 15, 2013, 04:15:45 am »
but why it was published in a magazine,that magazine spoke about real aircraft only ?,

Don't know in which French magazine it was published, but Luftfahrt International sometimes mentioned
things, that definitely weren't real ! For example, there was an article about "German Flying Saucers" and,
no, they didn't speak about aircraft like the Sack AS-5, but about those UFOs, very admired in certain
circles. But they always mentioned, that it were fakes, or at least extremely unrealistic ! So, be aware not
just to take the existence of an aircraft for granted, because there was a picture in that magazine. There's no
way (and there's NEVER such a way !) without at least a basic understanding of the accompanying text.
 
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #163 on: February 15, 2013, 04:22:57 am »
At least my dear Jemiba,


it was a good imagination from them (French magazine).

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #164 on: February 15, 2013, 12:35:02 pm »
it was a good imagination from them (French magazine).

Well, maybe, but I still have some doubts, and those were expressed, too, in the article in Luftfahrt International
(Just had a look into the issue again): Judging the overall appearance of the aircraft (somewhat resembling a B-17,
to my opinion), it seems to be build completely from armour plating. The helicopter, you can see on tghe drawing,
actually was carried by the aircraft and has just taken off from the dorsal hangar. Very good, because, the people
still there are giving the only usable scale and a quick and rough estimation gives the legth of about 90 m, so it
actually would dwarf the biggest recent aircraft ! But using that scale, it becomes clear, that all those gun turrets aren't
just armed with machine guns, but with weapons usually found on bigger warships ! Sorry, I'm not able to estimate the
weighht, such an aircraft would likely have, probably in the range of a smaller cruiser ? 4,000 to 5,000 tons ?
The articles last statement is, that the type of the 4 engines remains secret, but ... that the latest and most powerful
rocket engines probably would deliver enough thrust for such a monstrosity, so "maybe it's not that silly utopia ?".
But be aware, that the in the context last question clearly was asked tongue-in-cheek !  ;)
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #165 on: February 15, 2013, 01:45:30 pm »
OK my dear Jemiba,


we can judge now,it was fake design.

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #166 on: February 21, 2013, 05:23:19 am »
Hi,


was this a real project or fake ?,it was from Helican Mercier !.


Offline Jemiba

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #167 on: February 21, 2013, 10:50:51 am »
Perhaps "Helican Mercier" is just the name of the draftsman, judging the way, the name is written on that drawing ?
Knowledge of the source would be helpful.   ;)
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #168 on: February 21, 2013, 12:37:56 pm »
Perhaps "Helican Mercier" is just the name of the draftsman, judging the way, the name is written on that drawing ?
Knowledge of the source would be helpful.   ;)

The way I understand it, this is clearly an aicraft called the Hélican and designed by a Mr. Mercier.
"Hélican" is not a first name in French and never was...

Offline boxkite

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #169 on: February 21, 2013, 02:31:41 pm »
"Hélican" sounds like a mixture of HÉLIcoptère and pÉLICAN.

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #170 on: February 21, 2013, 04:28:34 pm »
"Hélican" sounds like a mixture of HÉLIcoptère and pÉLICAN.

Yep. That's exactly what it sounds like, and what it probably was as well.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #171 on: February 21, 2013, 10:12:05 pm »
Ah, yes, sorry ! Makes much more sense indeed. I'm not tat familiar with French
first names .. ::)
Nevertheless, the concept itself still makes not much sense to me. "STOL" came into
my mind, with the rotor acting in the same way, as lift jet engines on a number of proposals,
but with the center of lift without the rotor that far back,it couldn't be stopped during
forward flight and I doubt, that aerodynamics would be very favourable.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #172 on: February 22, 2013, 08:52:19 am »
My dears,


I will try to remember the site,it is not hard,but could take a little time.

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #173 on: March 13, 2013, 03:12:38 pm »
Hi,


I think those China stealth aircraft are a fake designs,but is there any confirm about this?.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #174 on: March 13, 2013, 11:00:17 pm »
From those drawings it isn't even clear, if they are meant as "projects", or just as notional designs for explaining
the trade-offs for different layouts. Please, as usual, mention the source ! On the one hand, that's always
necessary to minimise the dangers of getting into trouble because of copyright issues, on the other hand,
it could give other members on this forum the possibility of judging the site, those drawings come from.
We certainly have members, who actually can read such characters.  ;)
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #175 on: March 14, 2013, 05:52:52 am »

Offline Creative

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #176 on: June 04, 2013, 04:09:52 am »
Here's a fake but kind of real. Fake because it never flew and was a movie prop. But sort of real in the sense they used the front fuselage of an F-5.

The fictional YF-32 from the 2011 Green Lantern movie.

Offline GTX

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #177 on: June 04, 2013, 10:44:59 am »
Pity it never flew since it is quite an attractive little jet.

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #178 on: June 04, 2013, 11:08:53 am »
Pity it never flew since it is quite an attractive little jet.

Yeah! For once I was thrilled at the sight of a fake aircraft in a movie, thinking "Wow, this looks so cool, and feasible too!!"

Also like the Stark types in the various Iron Man movies...

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #179 on: June 04, 2013, 11:15:20 am »
... they used the front fuselage of an F-5.

One step further, than the Iranian Saeqeh !
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #180 on: June 05, 2013, 05:26:40 am »
Hi,


here is the Fokker D.XXV,of course this Model is for a fake aircraft,but the drawing looks
like a real design,who can recognize it ?.

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #181 on: June 05, 2013, 08:06:02 am »
The line drawing appears to be copied from 'Fokker D.21 - Fokkers laatste eenmotorige jager' by Peter de Jong, Lanasta 2012.
Drawing's caption in that book:
Quote
Design 151, one of the  'D.22' projects, is seen here with a 1050-hp Rolls-Royce Merlin II and a chin radiator, calculated top speed being 530 km/h (330 mph). While not world class fighters for the 1940s, these designs look like attractive options fot the Dutch Army, but little interest was shown.
Drawing by Frits Gerdessen.

Candidates for the D.22 designation were designs 150 (air-cooled radial) and 151 (liquid-cooled inline), but neither was built. The last D.-type built was the D.23 push-pull twin boom fighter. After WW2, the D.24 designation was used for a supersonic, VTOL, variable sweep fighter, developed in cooperation with Republic. The D.25 designation is probably pure fantasy, I personally don't think this designation was ever used.

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #182 on: June 05, 2013, 09:18:00 am »
Thank you my dear Arjen

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #183 on: November 13, 2013, 02:14:06 pm »
Hi,


in the Germany Museum site,they are spoke about Heinkel He-620 as a
VTOL project,did anyone hear about this designation before,or it was
just a typo.


http://kulturserver-nds.de/home/hubtest/medien/Typenkartei3953xGUN7x9T3Z7.pdf


page 51

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #184 on: November 13, 2013, 02:20:02 pm »
I don't believe it a sound concept to judge information archived by a museum as possibly "fake"... Typos are always possible of course, but here we have a designation, a country, a date, so probably they got this information from somewhere.

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #185 on: January 10, 2014, 02:30:17 pm »
Hi,


I think this aircraft was a hypothetical or fake design,am I right ?.

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #186 on: January 11, 2014, 05:53:36 am »
Any further info on this, Hesham? Like a scan of the article, or the date of the magazine? I'd like to see more on this!
Grif

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #187 on: January 11, 2014, 06:07:19 am »
Sorry Grif,


I have only the cover of the Air Trails magazine,unfortunately I don't have
any single issue of it,may be someone can help.

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #188 on: March 13, 2014, 02:40:26 pm »
Hi,


I think those two fighters are fake designs,am I right ?.

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #189 on: March 13, 2014, 03:54:11 pm »
I think those two fighters are fake designs,am I right ?.


Of course they are! They are straight from the Bill Barnes pulps of the 1930s!

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #190 on: March 13, 2014, 03:57:26 pm »
Thank you my dear Stargazer.

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #191 on: June 18, 2014, 01:58:43 pm »
Founded by my dear Tophe,


and I think it was a completely fake design (Tupolev Tu-442),am I right or there something
I don't know ?.


http://imodeler.com/uploads/2013/12/AH-Tupolev-tu-422.jpg

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #192 on: June 28, 2014, 06:24:30 am »
Hi,


I found this picture to SAAB 32 Lansen ,fitted with a rotor mounted on a pylon over
the mid of the fuselage,is it a fake design.


Source; FLYGvapen NYTT
« Last Edit: June 28, 2014, 06:32:56 am by hesham »

Offline CJGibson

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #193 on: June 28, 2014, 06:58:12 am »
Sure it's not parked in front of a Rotodyne?

Chris

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #194 on: June 28, 2014, 07:00:26 am »
Just by judging, what the rotor would do to the tail fin, I would regard
this as a fake !   ;)
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #195 on: June 28, 2014, 07:25:22 am »
OK my dears,


and for confirm,if anyone here is Swedish,can translate the article.

Offline yasotay

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #196 on: June 28, 2014, 10:58:52 am »
Just by judging, what the rotor would do to the tail fin, I would regard
this as a fake !   ;)
Lack of any visible anti-torque mechanism makes me agree this a fake

Offline sferrin

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #197 on: June 28, 2014, 12:56:31 pm »
Just by judging, what the rotor would do to the tail fin, I would regard
this as a fake !   ;)
Lack of any visible anti-torque mechanism makes me agree this a fake

Why would an autogyro need an antitorque rotor?
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #198 on: June 28, 2014, 02:19:15 pm »
Why would an autogyro need an antitorque rotor?

Correct, but an autogyro wouldn't be a true V/STOL aircraft. This thing looks like
a typical April fool to me.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline flateric

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #199 on: June 28, 2014, 03:12:55 pm »
and I think it was a completely fake design (Tupolev Tu-442),am I right
you are
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #200 on: June 28, 2014, 03:13:59 pm »
Thank you my dears.

Offline hesham

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Offline Jemiba

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #202 on: July 02, 2014, 06:31:04 am »
Pretty sure a fake, I think. "Bird models" seems to be one of those companies
mixing up real projects with fakes in their catalogue, for what reason whatsoever ... 
The "Sack Kreisflügeljäger" to me is another example, the model seems to be
based on the Bf 109 with a circular wing, as proposed by Artur Sack. Some true
facts and a lot of imagination and who can say for sure, that there wasn't a sketch
on the back of an envelope ?   ::)
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #203 on: July 02, 2014, 06:34:15 am »
OK my dear Jemiba.

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #204 on: July 04, 2014, 04:46:30 pm »
Hi,


of course a fake Russian fighter,right ?.

Offline royabulgaf

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #205 on: July 04, 2014, 05:26:16 pm »
That Bird Models Arado kit sure reminds me of this apparently WWII vintage photo of an aircraft or full size mockup that turns up occasionally.

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #206 on: July 04, 2014, 06:03:50 pm »
of course a fake Russian fighter,right ?.

If it's by Jozef Gatial, I would tend to think it's a real project. Can't think of him doing fake stuff, at least I can't recall him doing so.

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #207 on: July 05, 2014, 05:15:54 am »
of course a fake Russian fighter,right ?.

If it's by Jozef Gatial, I would tend to think it's a real project. Can't think of him doing fake stuff, at least I can't recall him doing so.


Hi Skyblazer,


frankly,I don't know,but I did't see any Russian aircraft like this !.

Offline Triton

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #208 on: July 05, 2014, 12:12:24 pm »
If it's by Jozef Gatial, I would tend to think it's a real project. Can't think of him doing fake stuff, at least I can't recall him doing so.

I presume that this artwork is also by Jozef Gatial based on the model kit of the MiG-37 "Ferret E" by Italeri and Testors.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2014, 12:28:01 pm by Triton »

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #209 on: July 05, 2014, 12:55:58 pm »
Gentlemen,

the aircraft is the MiG LMFS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_LMFS

Information available from Paralay web and just for subscribers at globalsecurity

Offline PlanesPictures

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #210 on: July 05, 2014, 01:54:53 pm »
" I did't see any Russian aircraft like this " - did you see any USA aircraft like these? There are real projects from Lockheed  DB

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #211 on: July 05, 2014, 03:06:02 pm »
Gentlemen,

the aircraft is the MiG LMFS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_LMFS

Information available from Paralay web and just for subscribers at globalsecurity

Thank you, pometablava. Wasn't sure if it was a real or speculative Mikoyan project.

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #212 on: July 05, 2014, 04:09:49 pm »
Thank you my dears.

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #213 on: July 23, 2014, 12:39:28 pm »
I just came across a drawing of a jet powered derivative of the XF5U (different from the one discussed at http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,6213.0.html) labelled the "Zinnerman (sic) Flying Saucer"at http://projectswordtoys.blogspot.com/.

Given that the quoted source of the illustration is the 1980 Dan Dare annual, the misspelling of Zimmerman's name and some pretty questionable design features, I assume the concept was purely speculative/conjectural, but any insights are welcome.

Martin
« Last Edit: July 23, 2014, 12:49:18 pm by martinbayer »
Would be marching to the beat of his own drum, if he didn't detest marching to any drumbeat at all so much.

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #214 on: July 23, 2014, 12:53:03 pm »
Cool stuff. And have you noticed that the XF5U-1 is a "Change-Vought"!?

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #215 on: July 23, 2014, 05:04:18 pm »
Amazing project,


but there is two designs derivative from XF5U,the Vought V.335 and V.341,and here
the Page 308 from the book, Les Avions Vought,which speaks on XF5U development
and its derivative,may be a real design ?.

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #216 on: July 24, 2014, 05:24:07 am »
I can see no mention of a derivative design in this extract.

Offline Jemiba

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It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #218 on: July 25, 2014, 04:41:26 pm »

but there is two designs derivative from XF5U,the Vought V.335 and V.341


May be the member Bill S can find in Vought Archive,the V.335 & V.341 drawings.

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #219 on: August 07, 2014, 04:15:07 am »
Hi,


is that a real design (I mean a project),or just drawing for a Model ?.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #220 on: August 07, 2014, 08:31:39 am »
It's often easier to decide, when the source is known .....    ;)
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #221 on: August 07, 2014, 10:47:53 am »

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #222 on: September 16, 2014, 03:49:36 am »
Hi,


I think this SST was a fake,am I right ?.

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #223 on: September 16, 2014, 03:51:50 am »
Same remark as Jemiba just above, hesham... without the source (context) it is virtually impossible to say...
« Last Edit: September 16, 2014, 04:00:28 am by Skyblazer »

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #224 on: September 16, 2014, 03:57:42 am »
My dear Skyblazer,


I didn't record the source,but I found the same aircraft as a fake SST;


http://www.classicjq.com/artifacts/models/jqmodels.aspx

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #225 on: September 16, 2014, 04:01:14 am »
is that a real design (I mean a project),or just drawing for a Model ?.


Adapted from Google translation: "The project itself was not continued. A student cannot do this, and besides the teacher disagreed with me. (...) This wonder  looked something like this (which was to use the fuselage and wings of the Antonov A-15 glider).  It was only later, wiith the advent of Internet, that I found a real  incarnation of the concept, later grown into an entire family of training aircraft [the Fouga Gemeaux]."

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #226 on: September 16, 2014, 04:09:30 am »
Thank you my dear Skyblazer.

Offline XP67_Moonbat

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #227 on: September 21, 2014, 09:59:39 pm »
In God we trust, all others we monitor. :-p

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #228 on: September 22, 2014, 03:57:35 am »
Thank you my dear XP67_Moonbat.

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #229 on: September 22, 2014, 05:11:36 am »
Hi,


this time I feel those aircraft was a real designs,but I am not sure,although the said (April fools),
but I believed this story was right,until some one correct it to me,specially Russian members.


They spoke about Germany designer,who was captured by Soviet at the end of the WW2,and
worked for Antonov,at first he created a strange three aircraft;


1- A jet powered Bi-plane
2- Supersonic bomber with fixed landing gear
3- Twin fuselage An-2 for recce


Are those aircraft a real or April fool ?,please not this 3-view to twin fuselage An-2,they
mention that, Drawing Antonov OKB Archive.


http://www.vintagewings.ca/VintageNews/Stories/tabid/116/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/351/language/en-CA/Double-Double--The-Story-of-the-Zwillingsbiber-Beaver.aspx

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #230 on: September 22, 2014, 05:49:16 am »
It's easy to see that the above plan is a fake: see how the wing's bracing wires fail to rejoin in the middle!

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #231 on: September 22, 2014, 06:44:16 am »
OK my dear Skyblazer,


but we want a more check about those aircraft.

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #232 on: September 22, 2014, 06:58:37 am »
but we want a more check about those aircraft.

What more do you want??? The page you linked says clearly it was an April's fool joke, and the image you attached clearly is a very crude manipulation. End of story.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #233 on: September 22, 2014, 10:31:12 am »
... but we want a more check about those aircraft.

Don't think, that this is necessary in this case ! The article starts with the header "APRIL FOOLS - sorry"
and the designers of the He 111Z are stated to have been the twins  Martin and Deiter "Zwillingsbiber",
the surnamen actually meaning "twin beaver". You can look for that name via google or in the German
"Namenslexikon" (names encyclopedia), quite probably without success and here
http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/481537-zwillingsbiber-brothers-double-beaver.html
it was identified as a joke, too.
And then, of course, there's the very crude drawing .... :-\
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #234 on: September 22, 2014, 01:40:51 pm »
OK my dear Jemiba,


and my dear Borovik just tell me,it is a fake or April fools.

Offline Bill Walker

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #235 on: September 25, 2014, 04:17:11 am »
The link provided is to an annual April Fool's Day post that this organization does every year.
Bill Walker

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #236 on: November 23, 2014, 03:20:50 am »
Hi,


I think that stealth fighter is an imagination for future aircraft project,not real design
or belong to a known company,am I right ?.


http://apibestinclass.com/?attachment_id=5346

Offline fightingirish

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #237 on: November 23, 2014, 03:40:46 am »
That is the F/A-70 Panther II by our forum member bagera3005 .  ;)
Link: http://bagera3005.deviantart.com/
Slán,
fightingirish

Slán ist an Irish Gaelic word for Goodbye.  :)

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Offline Jemiba

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #239 on: December 06, 2014, 03:20:10 pm »
Having looked through that article, I think this "concept" is correctly placed
in this secton here. Haven't found it mentioned in the text and there are
several other ideas, probably just drawn on the back of an envelope.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #240 on: April 03, 2015, 08:17:56 am »
Hi,


was that project real or fake,BV P.224 ?.


http://modelingmadness.com/scott/axis/luft/p224preview.htm

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #241 on: April 03, 2015, 08:26:16 am »
Fake!
I see you on the dark side of the moon.

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #242 on: April 20, 2015, 08:57:32 am »
Gentlemen,

the aircraft is the MiG LMFS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_LMFS

Information available from Paralay web and just for subscribers at globalsecurity


Still un-solving mystery,also from Russian site;

http://alldrawings.ru/risunki/item/samolet-mig-1-27-project-chertezhi-gabarity-risunki


Offline CxxTxx

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #243 on: April 20, 2015, 01:20:51 pm »
Hi, I think this SST was a fake, am I right ?.

That's from Jonny Quest, you can see the "Q" on the stand, and it appears in the credits.

Offline flateric

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #244 on: April 20, 2015, 03:20:03 pm »
Gentlemen,

the aircraft is the MiG LMFS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_LMFS

Information available from Paralay web and just for subscribers at globalsecurity


Still un-solving mystery,also from Russian site;

http://alldrawings.ru/risunki/item/samolet-mig-1-27-project-chertezhi-gabarity-risunki



Thats KB Paralay
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #245 on: April 20, 2015, 04:25:32 pm »
Thank you my dear Flateric,


and also many thanks to CxxTxx.

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #246 on: May 31, 2015, 06:55:28 am »
Hi,


was this idea transfer into a real aircraft,or just fake one ?.

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #247 on: May 31, 2015, 07:00:17 am »
was this idea transfer into a real aircraft,or just fake one ?.

Source?


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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #249 on: May 31, 2015, 09:46:01 am »
Source?

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?17-The-Ongoing-Mystery-Aircraft-Thread-Part-Deux/page358

See, hesham? Here's a very precise example here of not being able to use a simple online resource properly. If you'd looked at the posts immediately after that one, you'd have found that it depicts a real type, not a project...

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?17-The-Ongoing-Mystery-Aircraft-Thread-Part-Deux/page359

Here's some more info about it: this was the Hennesy Monoplane, built by Gerald C. Hennesy (from Washington, DC).  Note that it must not be mistaken for the Hennessey OX-5 Monoplane, built by Californian James R. Hennessey (note different spelling).
« Last Edit: May 31, 2015, 09:51:40 am by Skyblazer »

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #250 on: May 31, 2015, 10:13:27 am »
Thank you Skyblazer.

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #251 on: June 15, 2015, 06:05:28 am »

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #252 on: June 15, 2015, 06:44:44 am »
It's a drawing of what a single-seat emergency fighter variant of the PWS-33 Wyżeł would look like.
In my opinion, going by what google-translate makes of the accompanying text - it's pure speculation.

PWS-33 Wyżeł was a trainer aircraft, only prototypes were built.
Wiki description here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PWS-33_Wy%C5%BCe%C5%82
« Last Edit: June 15, 2015, 07:38:41 am by Arjen »

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #253 on: June 15, 2015, 08:28:33 am »
Thank you my dear Arjen.

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #254 on: June 16, 2015, 05:55:28 am »
Hi,


here is a Hypersonic project,but I don't know it became a real project or just a hypothetical
design ?.


Research Planes

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #255 on: June 17, 2015, 04:38:58 am »

here is a Hypersonic project,but I don't know it became a real project or just a hypothetical
design ?.

Research Planes


From the same source,


anther Hypersonic project,but really became a design or not ?.

Offline papacavy

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #256 on: June 17, 2015, 11:01:33 am »
The PWS-34 is a cool design, but truly a fake. A very clever fake, though. To me, its a pleasing design and I wish that the Poles could have developed their pre-invasion aircraft projects further. A Polish Air Force that lasted until 1941-42? An interesting what-if.

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #257 on: June 17, 2015, 03:13:30 pm »
Thank you Papacavy.

Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #258 on: June 21, 2015, 11:54:29 am »

From the same source,


anther Hypersonic project,but really became a design or not ?.

A real Lockheed design.
Aerospace Projects Review


And so the endless circle of life comes to an end, meaningless and grim. Why did they live, and why did they die? No reason. Two hundred million years of evolution snuffed out, for in the end Nature is horrific and teaches us nothing

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #259 on: June 21, 2015, 03:49:55 pm »
Thank you my dear Scott.

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #260 on: August 04, 2015, 06:16:17 am »
Hi,


was this a real spaceship project or not ?,the paragraph is not clear.

Offline starviking

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #261 on: August 04, 2015, 07:07:53 am »
Hi,

was this a real spaceship project or not ?,the paragraph is not clear.


I'd guess fake - I can't see those inlets being much use in atmosphere, and in take-off the drag would be horrendous. Pressure stresses would probably rip it apart on ascent, and if by some miracle it made orbit... re-entry would be waiting to finish it off.

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #262 on: August 04, 2015, 07:08:37 am »
The idea was, that this vehicle should take off with a weight of about 2000 tons and, while still flying through the
atmosphere, it should suck in air and turn it into LOX, using big chillers. That's why it is called "flying fridge".
Before leaving the atmosphere, weight should have risen to about 4000 tons ! Take-off via solid fuel rockets,
switching to ramjets and then to liquid fueled rocket engines, using the "collected" LOX.
The book "Zukunftsträume von gestern, heute und übermorgen" (Yesterdays, todays and the day after tommorrow's
dreams of the future)  by Tommy Laeng brings lots of such "ideas", which were popular in the '60s.
( https://books.google.de/books?id=qa8UMf8Qf8gC&printsec=frontcover&hl=de#v=onepage&q&f=false )
Wouldn't call it projects ...
 
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline starviking

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #263 on: August 04, 2015, 07:12:20 am »
Wow! So it's an artist's impression of a LACE spaceplane?

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #264 on: August 04, 2015, 07:42:19 am »
As I understand the LACE concept, the compressed air is used up in the engine at once ?
Here, it should just be stored for later use in space.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #265 on: August 04, 2015, 09:02:00 am »
Excellent my dear Jemiba.

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #266 on: August 05, 2015, 06:41:25 am »
Hi,


what was this,an early model for real project or just a hypothetical aircraft ?.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2015, 08:57:46 am by hesham »

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #267 on: August 19, 2015, 11:11:14 am »
Hi,


that's a RC Model for flying disc aircraft as I know ?,but I saw a drawing to a flying disc
aircraft very similar to this one from long time ago,is it a real design ?.


http://rc-aviation.ru/forum/topic?id=1407

Offline Michel Van

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #268 on: August 19, 2015, 12:30:52 pm »
Hi,


that's a RC Model for flying disc aircraft as I know ?,but I saw a drawing to a flying disc
aircraft very similar to this one from long time ago,is it a real design ?.


http://rc-aviation.ru/forum/topic?id=1407


Me too
i think i saw this in 1980s
and if i remember well also saw similar picture in this very form
but not were i see it here...
I love Strange Technology

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #269 on: August 20, 2015, 04:03:52 am »
That's right my dear Michel,


something looks like this;


http://www.aerobataviation.com/gallery/Geobat/Planned+Projects

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #270 on: August 21, 2015, 10:42:35 am »
Hi,


also here is a drawing to a glider,I think it was powered by rocket engine,was it a real design
or just a Model ?,specially I saw a look like it,maybe from Russian !.

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #271 on: August 25, 2015, 04:43:49 am »
Hi,

does this draft for a glider transfer into a real design or not ?.

http://tehno-science.ru/izobreteniya-1002.html

Offline Mark Nankivil

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #272 on: August 25, 2015, 06:17:12 am »
Hi Hesham -

That bears a lot of similarity to the Genesis 2 sailplane which did go into production. 

Enjoy the Day! Mark

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #273 on: August 25, 2015, 07:26:55 am »
Hi,

does this draft for a glider transfer into a real design or not ?.



Only idea.
Airplanes are interesting toys but of no military value.
- Marshal Ferdinand Foch, 1911.

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #274 on: August 25, 2015, 10:04:35 am »
Thank you my dears Mark and Granit.

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #275 on: August 29, 2015, 10:41:20 am »
Hi,


I swear that,I saw something like this FSW or tailless glider aircraft,who agree with me ?,so
was this drawing a real design or not ?.

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #276 on: August 31, 2015, 05:19:13 am »
Hi,


was that a real design to Raumgleiter or not ?.

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #277 on: August 31, 2015, 07:03:18 am »
The text roughly says :
"... A reusable space shuttle, a hybrid of rocket and aircraft, would reduce
costs to about a tenth of the current costs. Launched with rocket boosters,
one half of the combination for example could be used for take-off, while the
other one goes on ..."
No mention of a real project. BTW, knowing the source could ease finding the
answer.   ;)
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #278 on: August 31, 2015, 10:29:29 am »
Thank you my dear Jemiba,


and here is the source;


http://www.autoex.kz/node/5

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #279 on: August 31, 2015, 09:27:17 pm »
You can find more from the oeuvre of that artist, Klaus Bürgle, here:
http://www.retro-futurismus.de/buergle_weltraum2.htm
Some are clearly based on real projects, others just illustrating ideas,
that were en vogue back then. Nice to see them again, they were floating
through my favourite mags and books, when I was young !  ;) 
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #280 on: September 01, 2015, 10:58:27 am »
Thank you my dear Jemiba.

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #281 on: September 01, 2015, 11:20:02 am »
Hi,

I think this was a real design or we discussed it before,am I right ?.

http://www.driveinmedia.com/?p=2567
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 05:21:29 am by hesham »

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #282 on: September 14, 2015, 06:12:07 am »

that's a RC Model for flying disc aircraft as I know ?,but I saw a drawing to a flying disc
aircraft very similar to this one from long time ago,is it a real design ?.


http://rc-aviation.ru/forum/topic?id=1407


It was real aircraft patent,by Mr. Jack M. Jones;


https://www.google.com/patents/US5520355

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #283 on: September 18, 2015, 04:23:10 am »
Hi,


I think this artist drawing to a Helicopter was familiar,was it a real design or not ?.

Offline archipeppe

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #284 on: September 18, 2015, 06:18:26 am »
Hi,


I think this artist drawing to a Helicopter was familiar,was it a real design or not ?.


Except of its single rotor (rather than double) it seems quite similiar to the early Kamov helicopters design.

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #285 on: September 18, 2015, 01:01:30 pm »
I think this artist drawing to a Helicopter was familiar,was it a real design or not ?.
Except of its single rotor (rather than double) it seems quite similiar to the early Kamov helicopters design.

I'm surprised this image could even raise eyebrows. OF COURSE it was a real design, the Pitcairn PA-36 Whirlwing.

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #286 on: September 18, 2015, 02:26:21 pm »
Many thanks Skyblazer.

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #287 on: October 01, 2015, 04:51:05 am »
Hi,


that's a suggesting of 1916 for a giant triplane aircraft can launch a fighter instead off
Zeppelin airship,was it a real design or just a hypothetical one ?.


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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #288 on: October 05, 2015, 09:08:44 am »
Hi,


here is a manned rocket space-bomber artist drawing,was it a real one ?.


https://archive.org/stream/missilesrockets2195unse#page/n147/mode/2up

Offline archipeppe

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #289 on: October 05, 2015, 11:00:53 am »
Hi,


here is a manned rocket space-bomber artist drawing,was it a real one ?.


https://archive.org/stream/missilesrockets2195unse#page/n147/mode/2up


My guess is that behind such fake design could be some element of truth, in sense that probably some Burya element went all the way to West up to U.S. press....

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #290 on: October 05, 2015, 02:20:41 pm »

here is a manned rocket space-bomber artist drawing,was it a real one ?.

https://archive.org/stream/missilesrockets2195unse#page/n147/mode/2up

My guess is that behind such fake design could be some element of truth, in sense that probably some Burya element went all the way to West up to U.S. press....


My dear Archipeppe,


we want to check ?.

Offline Triton

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #291 on: October 10, 2015, 04:03:21 pm »
Artist's impression found on Facebook.

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #292 on: October 10, 2015, 04:28:52 pm »
Artist's impression found on Facebook.


By the way,


my dear PaulMM (Overscan) made a discussing about this picture before.

Offline Triton

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #293 on: October 10, 2015, 04:52:34 pm »
Artist's impression found on Facebook.


By the way,


my dear PaulMM (Overscan) made a discussing about this picture before.

Link?

Offline Grey Havoc

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #294 on: October 11, 2015, 02:23:54 am »
To the Stars

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #295 on: October 15, 2015, 06:20:20 am »
Hi,


I think this is a hypothetical Russian atomic rocket concept,am I right ?.


https://www.pinterest.com/pin/524528687825090974/

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #296 on: October 16, 2015, 06:50:18 am »
Hi,


I can't see well,in a Russian book about Seversky-Republic company,there is a picture
for Alexander Seversky told a speech to a Walt Disney team,behind him some drawings,
one of them was for a six engined aircraft as I guess,what was this ?.


русские крылья америки

Offline The Artist

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #297 on: October 16, 2015, 08:56:04 am »
Those look like Disney art to me - Storyboards and design treatments done by the Disney artists.
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Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #298 on: October 16, 2015, 01:17:42 pm »
Those look like Disney art to me - Storyboards and design treatments done by the Disney artists.

So what? Disney produced a movie with Seversky, it's only normal that they should put his ideas into cartoon form. Doesn't mean the designs weren't his.

For your information, here's a link to the full movie:

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #299 on: October 16, 2015, 02:17:30 pm »

So what? Disney produced a movie with Seversky, it's only normal that they should put his ideas into cartoon form. Doesn't mean the designs weren't his.

For your information, here's a link to the full movie:



OK Skyblazer,and thanks.

Offline The Artist

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #300 on: October 17, 2015, 10:23:46 am »
What I'm saying is that what you are seeing in the pictures hesham posted shouldn't be taken as any definitive "real" aircraft designs. Big studio animation is a collaborative venture. Granted, Disney (the studio) wanted to, and did, capture the feel of the known aircraft of the conflict, but storyboard art is suppose to be quick and dirty and only convey the story element within that part of the scene. That larger single frame drawing looks, to me, like it is featuring a gag or punch for a scene. It still has the look and feel of a storyboard illustration. An animated short might have only one storyboard artist, or might have a few if the story is to be full of action and lots of quick cuts. A feature length animation project likely has a number of storyboard artists and each has their own style in portraying the scene.

The attached illustrations were selected because they show a progression of design in the big studio animation process. We see the character as drawn by the author of the book series, then we see how the character evolved to his look on the screen. You can see that the character as shown in the storyboard art looks only suggestive of that character, and you see an example of artwork done to develop a gag (in the second movie).

I hope this illustrates why I say the aircraft shown in the pictures hesham posted shouldn't be thought of as actual designs.
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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #301 on: October 17, 2015, 03:46:37 pm »
I see your point, and as an animation fan I appreciate these documents greatly, thanks.

I don't know if you've taken the time to actually watch "Victory Through Air Power", but if you do, go to 53:30 and see for yourself: the "Long Range Combat Fighter" depicted in blueprint form (and then extensively in animated form up to 55:23) seems to be a lot more than merely an animator's artistic license. From 55:24 to 54:47, then from 1:02:01 to 1:04:00 approximately, you can see a bomber version that is clearly a lot more realistic than your average cartoon airplane at the time! There is little doubt to me that some Republic staff must have worked closely with Disney people to produce these scenes — as much a tool for war propaganda as a marketing ploy from Republic to sell the government its bomber design, or so it seems! To me it's a clear forerunner of the Rainbow with twin tails instead (kind of a competitor of the unbuilt "Bomber Constellation"), straight from Republic Aviation's drawing boards.

Now back to the aircraft behind Seversky in the photo: true, it doesn't look quite as realistic. And true, it's not featured in this movie. But it shares some similarities with Seversky's transatlantic Clipper design, so I would certainly not discard it as fantasy stuff right away.
 

Offline The Artist

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #302 on: October 17, 2015, 09:28:14 pm »
I have seen that movie, and I agree that in the finished product the artists achieved a truer feel for the actual aircraft than one thinks of for animation, but I'm talking about the drawings in those pictures. We each seem to be seeing what we bring to that one drawing when we look at it. When I look at that one large drawing within the first picture, and more so in hesham's enlargement, I read it as a gag concept study featuring the Gigant. But, when study the details, I see that it is not truly a Gigant. Therefore, I accept that shape as a placeholder for whatever aircraft they would have used in the gag.

Another thing to consider is that if those drawings were the Disney artists' work, they had been done before Seversky gave this talk. We do not know if this photo was taken during his first (or possibly his only) talk with them as a group, or after he had given them a lecture on aircraft then came back to review their work. Therefore, we cannot be sure that these drawings are showing Seversky's influence on the project.
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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #303 on: November 16, 2015, 04:39:01 am »
Hi,

I don't know if this Colditz glide was a real design or just a hypothetical ?.

http://nysi.org.uk/aircraft/canard/seating.htm

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #304 on: November 16, 2015, 05:00:40 am »

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #305 on: November 16, 2015, 05:08:37 am »
Thank you CJGibson.

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #306 on: November 20, 2015, 05:32:56 am »
Hi,

in my dear Scott's site,he found it in ebay,this Yak-21 aircraft drawing,but of course not related
to known one,can I ask what was it ?,real or hypothetical ?.

http://www.aerospaceprojectsreview.com/blog/?p=1878

Offline borovik

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #307 on: November 20, 2015, 12:10:36 pm »
Lark has already answered this question (in 2008))
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,275.msg26452.html#msg26452   - Reply#96

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #308 on: November 20, 2015, 01:15:40 pm »
Lark has already answered this question (in 2008))
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,275.msg26452.html#msg26452   - Reply#96

Oh yes,I don't remember it,sorry.

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #309 on: November 27, 2015, 03:47:42 am »
Hi,

in a site,which speaks about aircraft in movies and TV,but it has some aircraft actually
existed,there is a drawing to an aircraft for US Army in 1918,I don't know it it was a real
or just hypothetical one ?.

http://impdb.org/index.php?title=Victory_Through_Air_Power

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #310 on: November 27, 2015, 04:01:27 am »
in a site,which speaks about aircraft in movies and TV

hesham, it's not just a page with odds and ends from various films. This particular page is entirely concerned with Alexander de Seversky's Victory Through Air Power, the movie he did with Disney in 1943 and which we've recently discussed in another topic.  ALL IMAGES in that page are screenshots from that movie, and if you haven't yet watched it, I warmly recommend it.

Before asking such a question, perhaps you ought to read more carefully the site's disclaimer about the contents, at the beginning of the page:

Quote
This is an animated film. The aircraft shown in it are therefore not actual aircraft, however, where a reasonable depiction of an actual aircraft has been created, it has been identified as best as possible.

Of course it is still possible that the drawing represents an as-yet unidentified project, but given the high level of research in the identification of all the other types in the page, I have my doubts that it is little more than an imaginary type, embodying the various features from most biplanes of that time.

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #311 on: November 27, 2015, 04:06:59 am »
OK Skyblazer,

I was just carious if this drawing to a real aircraft,but it's not.

Offline The Artist

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #312 on: November 29, 2015, 02:16:10 pm »
This, and the next batch, were found in the 1946 printing/edition of Gas Turbines and Jet Propulsion for Aircraft by G. Geoffrey Smith, M.B.E.
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Offline The Artist

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #313 on: November 29, 2015, 02:17:15 pm »
The second batch.
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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #314 on: November 29, 2015, 03:37:30 pm »
My dear Artist,

nice find at first,and I think that,I spoke about three of them before,and they were
from Flightglobal.

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,4274.msg33732.html#msg33732
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3564.0.html
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 03:41:33 pm by hesham »

Offline The Artist

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #315 on: November 29, 2015, 03:41:50 pm »
Fair enough. The search function here is tricky enough when searching for topics, but searching for images is a completely different animal.
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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #316 on: November 29, 2015, 03:45:45 pm »
Fair enough. The search function here is tricky enough when searching for topics, but searching for images is a completely different animal.

You are right my dear,and your pictures are clearer than Flightglobal,thanks.

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #317 on: December 03, 2015, 08:42:04 am »

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #318 on: December 03, 2015, 02:01:06 pm »
My dear Richard,

please search here;
http://www.tuncay-deniz.com/ENGLISH/english.html

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #319 on: December 04, 2015, 09:27:25 am »

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #320 on: December 18, 2015, 03:53:01 am »
Hi,

here is a completely fake design to Boeing B-52, right ?.

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #321 on: December 18, 2015, 05:43:06 pm »
Hi,

here is a completely fake design to Boeing B-52, right ?.

Completely, indeed!

Offline royabulgaf

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #322 on: December 28, 2015, 01:45:31 pm »
Regarding the VTA movie.  By the time it was made, Seversky was out at Republic.  Now Seversky was like Douhet, and believed that the bomber would always get through, unescorted, and destroy targets with pinpoint accuracy.   The USA had a problem that the European powers did not.  Really until the B-36 went into service, the US had no bombers capable of taking on strategic missions to the European or Japanese industrial heartland from US territory.  This was pretty much understood by Seversky and the USAAF, so the movie showed these gigantic bombers which were only just starting to be feasible.

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #324 on: January 10, 2016, 02:43:07 pm »
Found this on the Atompunk Brazil FB page. I thought this might be a good place to ask if this was a real project or not.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/356899201015875?view=permalink&id=1003494646356324&comment_id=1003507753021680&ref=m_notif&notif_t=group_comment_reply&actorid=100005036405988
« Last Edit: January 10, 2016, 02:47:28 pm by XP67_Moonbat »
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Offline Steve Pace

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #325 on: January 10, 2016, 06:25:57 pm »
When you know you're right, go ahead.

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #326 on: January 12, 2016, 04:27:15 am »
Prop is badly positioned regarding waves and the torpedo when it's released. So very probably fake.
COVERT SHORES: www.hisutton.com

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It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline XP67_Moonbat

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #328 on: January 13, 2016, 05:47:09 pm »
Oh yeah! Thank you!

Kinda figured Tremulis was tied to this!
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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #329 on: January 16, 2016, 01:31:38 am »
So it's real, but dumb?
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Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #331 on: February 09, 2016, 11:16:25 am »
Hi, Skoda Kauba Nuklear-Hyperschallflugzeug. Not real project?



This rather laughable "design" has been discussed here before.
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Offline Michel Van

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #332 on: February 09, 2016, 11:48:22 am »


Sorry but this "thing" is just laughable, Vladimir

The only Hypersonic vehicle the Nazi had were V2 rocket and there attempt put wing on them just wings brake of at Mach 4..

Nuclear what ? engine or Nuke ?   no way the nazi were so advance !   
And it's a Aerodynamic nightmare for Hypersonic flight...
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Offline XP67_Moonbat

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #333 on: February 09, 2016, 06:28:40 pm »
😂😂😂😂😂

Oh, man! I needed a good laugh!
In God we trust, all others we monitor. :-p

Offline Vladimir

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #334 on: February 10, 2016, 07:32:32 am »
 ;D  That cat is funny!!!

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #335 on: February 29, 2016, 07:08:36 am »
From the book проектирование самолетов 1948,

I found this flying cannon aircraft artist drawing,was it a real design or just a hypothetical ?.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 08:39:34 am by hesham »

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #336 on: March 01, 2016, 04:38:44 am »
From the book проектирование самолетов 1948,

I found this flying cannon aircraft artist drawing,was it a real design or just a hypothetical ?.

I asked about this airplane because,there was anther Cheranovski cannon fighter (not BICh-17)
project,and helping in the design,Mr. L. B. Kurchevskii ,it was unknown up to this moment?.

Offline flateric

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #337 on: March 01, 2016, 06:36:53 am »
Some subtle hint for you...

"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #338 on: March 04, 2016, 04:53:45 am »
Hi,

I don't remember from where I get this picture,it was F-16 or looks like it,but fitted
with twin tail fin,is it a real aircraft project or not ?.

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #339 on: March 04, 2016, 06:42:22 am »
Hi,

I don't remember from where I get this picture,it was F-16 or looks like it,but fitted
with twin tail fin,is it a real aircraft project or not ?.
This appears to be the fighter jet "P-996 Lazer" from the game Grand Theft Auto V. ;)

http://gta.wikia.com/wiki/P-996_LAZER

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #340 on: March 04, 2016, 07:08:25 am »
Thank you BlastWave.

Offline Apophenia

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #341 on: March 04, 2016, 02:11:15 pm »
I'd guess fake. The 1971 General Dynamics Model 401F looked very similar but had a smaller radome and no wingtip rails. This looks too modern to be part of that pre F-16 series.

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #342 on: March 05, 2016, 04:19:13 pm »
Couldn't it be the Hawker Siddeley HS1202 from the mid to late 70's, that looked like a twin fin F16.  It used a straight through variant of the Pegasus as it powerplant - RB431.

Regards.

Offline Michel Van

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #343 on: March 06, 2016, 05:50:57 am »
A Sikorsky S-58 with normal tail and huge contra-rotating propellers in the nose... Is this picture a fake? Thanks for any pointers!

At begin it look fake to me, but I start to thinking about this configuration
the Sikorsky S-58 got it engine in Nose, so if it turn forward to power propellors, it could fly as a gyrocopter.
but i never heard that  Sikorsky build such prototype or is this a Westland Whirlwind prototype ?
« Last Edit: March 06, 2016, 06:00:46 am by Michel Van »
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Offline Apophenia

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #344 on: March 06, 2016, 01:23:28 pm »
Couldn't it be the Hawker Siddeley HS1202 from the mid to late 70's, that looked like a twin fin F16.  It used a straight through variant of the Pegasus as it powerplant - RB431.

Those narrow-chord vertical fins certainly look the part. But didn't the HS1202 have a three-part canopy?

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #345 on: March 06, 2016, 03:00:51 pm »
I'd guess fake. The 1971 General Dynamics Model 401F looked very similar but had a smaller radome and no wingtip rails. This looks too modern to be part of that pre F-16 series.

That's right my dear Apophenia.

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #346 on: March 08, 2016, 07:54:51 am »
Hi,

in a site,they spoke about Von Braun dream for spacecraft,it looks like Focke-Wulf
Triebflugel,was it a real design for him or just a hypothetical one ?.

http://www.dominiosfantasticos.com.br/id296.htm

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #347 on: March 08, 2016, 10:37:28 am »
The Google translator seems to tell me, that German Flying Saucers are taken for
serious on that site ! So I would be very, VERY cautious indeed to believe in anything,
that is told there.   ;D
Perhaps a portugese native speaker can tell us more ?
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Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #348 on: March 08, 2016, 01:32:34 pm »
Of course my dear Jemiba,

I know that, flying disc is not welcome here,so I asked about rotating propeller
project,and I saw it also in a magazine maybe or PDF report ?.

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #349 on: March 13, 2016, 04:57:28 am »
Hi all,

of course I know Piasecky PA-97 design,but that's different a little concept (in its shape),
I don't know if it was a real Project or not ?.

https://www.pinterest.com/kronetzk/fliegen/

Offline hesham

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #350 on: June 01, 2016, 10:39:10 am »
Hi,

I found this drawing to a Russian aircraft,for which A-110 AWACS aircraft Project will
be look like,I don't know if it was real or hypothetical only ?.

Kryl'ya Rodini 2015-11-12

Offline flateric

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #351 on: June 01, 2016, 11:17:01 am »
These are Beriev TANTK patent drawings
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Real or fake
« Reply #352 on: June 01, 2016, 11:39:50 am »
These are Beriev TANTK patent drawings

Looks a lot like the Yak-44 too.

Some subtle hint for you...


Subtlety is wasted on those who can't understand it...

;D  That cat is funny!!!