Register here

Author Topic: Siebel Flugzeugwerke Prototypes and Projects  (Read 7625 times)

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22798
Siebel Flugzeugwerke Prototypes and Projects
« on: July 14, 2015, 06:40:28 am »
We can speak here about Siebel prototypes and projects,

there was a report in 1945,explained that,the Siebel company did a further development
of DFS 346 supersonic experimental aircraft ?.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2015, 11:21:00 am by hesham »

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22798
Re: Siebel Flugzeugwerke Prototypes and Projects
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2015, 04:28:47 am »
Finally I get the source.
 
"X-planes - German Luftwaffe Prototypes 1930-1945" by Manfred Griehl, Casemate 2012
« Last Edit: July 21, 2015, 09:10:22 pm by Jemiba »

Offline Würger

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 836
Re: Siebel Flugzeugwerke Prototypes and Projects
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2015, 11:19:56 am »
Dear hesham, please publish all that list.

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22798
Re: Siebel Flugzeugwerke Prototypes and Projects
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2015, 03:25:10 pm »
OK my dear Wurger,but also I will repeat sending the "0-1" with more info.

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22798
Re: Siebel Flugzeugwerke Prototypes and Projects
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2015, 05:45:08 am »
Hi,


also in 1944 the RLM issued a specification for a fighter project that would use a minimum of strategic materials, be suitable for rapid mass production and have a performance equal to the best piston engined fighters of the time.

The main tenders were; Arado,Blohm & Voss,Fieseler,focke-Wulf,Junkers Heinkel,Messerschmitt
and Siebel,I can't ID all those competitors,but we note that Siebel submitted a proposal,what was
it ?.

http://www.luft46.com/horten/hox.html

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22798
Re: Siebel Flugzeugwerke Prototypes and Projects
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2015, 09:31:54 am »
From Waffen-Arsenal Sonderband S-27,


here is a Siebel Mistel aircraft.

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22798
Re: Siebel Flugzeugwerke Prototypes and Projects
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2015, 06:05:48 am »
Hi,


as I mention before,the Siebel Si.304 was a fighter project,it was in RLM list of that site but it's
not working now;

http://orbat.com/site/andreas/Germany%202.htm
« Last Edit: August 02, 2015, 06:17:47 am by hesham »

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22798
Re: Siebel Flugzeugwerke Prototypes and Projects
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2015, 06:18:22 am »

as I mention before,the Siebel Si.304 was a fighter project,it was in RLM list of that site but it's
not working now;

http://orbat.com/site/andreas/Germany%202.htm


Also here;


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_RLM_aircraft_designations

Offline Skyblazer

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 13244
Re: Siebel Flugzeugwerke Prototypes and Projects
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2015, 06:32:03 am »
Also here;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_RLM_aircraft_designations

Hmm... As I tend to be very wary of everything that gets written on that site, I'd appreciate if anyone could point me to a thoroughly RELIABLE list of all RLM numbers, including those that remained of the 8-*** type. Thanks in advance!

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22798
Re: Siebel Flugzeugwerke Prototypes and Projects
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2016, 04:40:10 am »
Hi,

not a project,but here is a Siebel Fh.104,with a fuel tank as I think,am I right ?.

Jet & Prop 2012-02
« Last Edit: February 15, 2016, 08:06:01 am by hesham »

Offline bigvlada

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 369
Re: Siebel Flugzeugwerke Prototypes and Projects
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2016, 11:17:49 pm »
Why put so complicated contraption where a simple fuel tank under wing would be cheaper and easier to install and jettison?

Offline iverson

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 226
Re: Siebel Flugzeugwerke Prototypes and Projects
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2016, 11:52:04 am »
Why put so complicated contraption where a simple fuel tank under wing would be cheaper and easier to install and jettison?

My guess would be that the extra lift provided by the towed-glider arrangment was meant to let the parent aircraft lift a greater weight of fuel than it's own wing area and structure could support.  Lots of inventors experimented with the convept during WW2. But nothing is free.  As you suggest, the setup was more complicated. Worse, engines had to run at higher power levels for prolonged periods, which typically caused overheating, reduced reliability, and shortened the life of the engine. A towed glider could also adversely affect stability and control.

Offline Yildirim

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 110
Re: Siebel Flugzeugwerke Prototypes and Projects
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2016, 01:26:15 pm »
Wasn't the idea experimented with as a way to increase the range of bomber and recon aircraft to reach the North American coast? I remember seeing either that photograph or one of a similar arrangement in the book "Luftwaffe Over America".
"Madness," he murmured. I bowed. "But a great madness,"

Offline Jemiba

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 7934
Re: Siebel Flugzeugwerke Prototypes and Projects
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2016, 10:46:27 am »
To me, the trailer with the straight drawbar  seems to be the same, as the one shown in the attached photo,
which is described by Ernst Peter in "Der Flugzeugschlepp von den Anfängen bis heute" (aerotow from its beginning
until today), Motorbuchverlag 1981.
It's designated as the Fieseler P 21A (so no Siebel project or design) and was just the start of the development of a
flying trailer, which could be used as an auxiliary tank, or as a bomb carrier, or as both, as shown in the second picture
from the same source.
The version on the second photo above perhaps just differs with regards to the drawbar, which may give
the vehicle a more streamlined shape, I think. Interesting sidenote is, that after encountering problems with
stability at low speeds, a pilots seat was added to the trailer. Due to the small size of the trailer, this was
only suitable for small pilots, so Hanna Reitsch was committed as test pilot.
There are also photos of a He 177 towing a trailer with a tank above the wing. Those tests actually weren't
aimed at increasing range, but for testing the behaviour of drop tanks being hit by gun fire. The towed tank
was fired at by the rear gunner of the He 177 to get data, that should help with the development of conventionally
carried tanks for fighter aircraft.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22798
Re: Siebel Flugzeugwerke Prototypes and Projects
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2016, 09:43:06 am »
From Waffen-Arsenal Sonderband S-27,

here is a Siebel Mistel aircraft.

From; Die Deutsche Luftruestung 1933-1945 - vol.4 - MIAG-Zeppelin