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Author Topic: Future soldier technology (modified thread)  (Read 92329 times)

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Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« on: November 16, 2014, 06:05:50 pm »
To make up for the fact that I think I killed BobbyMikes future soldier tech thread :-[ , I'd like to open this modified version.
 This is for future soldier kit from helmets to boots, from NVG to camo....no exoskeletons stuff that has it's own thread now.


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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2014, 06:33:25 pm »
So let's kick off again.

From Italy the Mechlab V-shield armour system.

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In Italy MechLab, a start-up company specialised in military R&D, started developing an innovative concept in 2011 based on a fully-rigid body armour rather than the typical soft-rigid package. A most innovative development, however, was the first-generation torso-rachid exoskeleton that that transfers the shoulder-borne weight to the leg muscles and thereby decreases stress levels and allow for a potential load increase. The MechLab exoskeleton is a system that merely allows optimising load-carrying.

While it does have some electrically powered regulation actuators, its energy consumption is extremely low when compared to the more complex solutions designed to carry a soldier’s load. The system, known as V-Shield (also see cover), is part of the Advanced Individual Protection System (AIPS) programme launched in 2011 by MechLab with Italian MoD financing. It aims at improving thermal regulation, optimising ergonomics and power consumption, reducing rachis stress and increasing protection. Thanks to its exoskeleton configuration the V-Shield plates have minimal contact with the soldier’s body thus easing perspiration and body cooling either naturally or through the use of powered ventilation. It also has a hydration system.

 Still under development, the V-Shield has evolved considerably over time. The MkII version added shoulder plates and additional protection for arms and legs and a manual setting of the structure, while the Mk III saw a restyling of all armour plates together with the adoption of a release system for the spinal structure. In the Mk IV the V-Shield was equipped with a harness for heli-winch operations and easy extraction from armoured vehicles; side plates were separated from the front plate, while a motorised structure setting system was adopted. The Mk IV Plus adopts a spherical joint, a new anatomic back, and features more compact plates. MechLab is currently working on the Mark V, which will see a redesign of armour plates to meet army requirements and the adoption of a biometric sensor. Qualification of the ballistic package and harness will soon start in view of delivery of the V-Shield Mk VI with its optimised and industrialised version of the new body armour by year end to the MoD.

 According to data provided by MechLab, a comparison of the V-Shield with the current Italian Army body armour show that the 34% lighter weight configuration V-Shield provides 29% more protected surface against 7.62×39 mm ball ammunition. As for the heavy configuration, the V-Shield ensures 79% more protection for only a 6% weight increase against the AK-47 ball ammo. MechLab underlines that the key element to take into consideration is reduced soldier effort, around 30%, thanks to reduced back stress, improved thermal regulation and increased mobility, which decreases the weight impression by as much as –35%.
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http://www.armada.ch/protect-soldier/





I know it say "exoskeleton" in there but it's not the sci fi powered suit exo, it's more like an insect exoskeleton  ;)

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2014, 06:43:40 pm »
You march on what you eat ;D .

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No Water Needed in New Army MRE Heaters   1002640880_3AsJD-M-1 height=394
The U.S. Army is working on an improved version of the Flameless Ration Heater that doesn’t need water to heat Meals, Ready-to-Eat.
“Unlike the current ration heater, the Air Activated heater does not require water, a valuable battlefield commodity. This new approach to heating and advanced technology aims to lower cost, weight, and logistics burden of chemical heating technologies,” according to Army officials at Natick Soldier Research, Development and Engineering Center.
The Air Activated Heater contains a peel away layer that, once removed, allows air to penetrate the holes of the outer foil layer. After passing through the felt diffusion layer, the air reacts with the activated carbon, electrolyte, and rate-controlling binder, producing a safe exothermic reaction, Natick officials say.
This new technology will heat the MRE entrée by 100 degrees Fahrenheit in less than ten minutes. Negligible hydrogen off-gassing eliminates operational and transport restrictions associated with the current heater and offers improved safety, according to Natick.
The DoD Combat Feeding Program plans to transition the technical data to Defense Logistics Agency – Troop Support for use with the MRE.
Read more:  http://kitup.military.com/2014/11/water-needed-army-mre-heaters.html#ixzz3JI2FFG5R
Kit Up!

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2014, 06:45:56 pm »
Quote

3 Energy Prototypes to Replace Batteries in Combat

Bionic Power Knee height=435

The Army laid out three pieces of equipment the service has been testing to try and cut down the number of batteries soldiers have to carry in combat. Army official predicted the average soldier could soon need to carry up to 14 pounds of batteries for a 72-hour mission unless significant breakthroughs are made.
Here is a rundown of three top development projects:

Knee Harvester (photo above) — As shown in the photo, the knee harvester, built by Bionic Power, collects kinetic energy as the soldier moves his or her legs. Some feedback that soldiers have already sent back to Kit Up! on this one is how annoying it would be on long patrols. One soldier said he’d rather just carry the batteries.


Lightning Pack Rucksack Harvester height=435

Lightning Pack’s Rucksack Harvester —
The pack built by Lightning Pack uses a miniature power generator and collects the kinetic energy drawn by the movement of the backpack on the soldier as he moves on patrol. The pack can generate up to 40 watts when running and up to 22 watts when the soldier is walking.


MC10 Solar Helmet height=435

Solar Panel Harvester —
Built onto the top of the helmet and pack, these solar panels are a thin layer of gallium arsenide crystals. The pack can generate up to 10 watts and the helmet can generate 7 watts if under the sun.

Read more:  http://kitup.military.com/2014/11/3-energy-prototypes-replace-batteries.html#ixzz3JI2zmy8N
Kit Up!
« Last Edit: November 16, 2014, 06:48:08 pm by muttbutt »

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2014, 06:05:07 am »
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US Army Develops Pocket-Sized Air Surveillance Device

NATICK, Mass. --- Researchers at the U.S. Army Natick Soldier Research, Development and Engineering Center are developing technologies for a pocket-sized aerial surveillance device for Soldiers and small units operating in challenging ground environments. The Cargo Pocket Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance program, or CP-ISR, seeks to develop a mobile Soldier sensor to increase the situational awareness of dismounted Soldiers by providing real-time video surveillance of threat areas within an immediate operational environment.
 
 While larger systems have been used to provide over-the-hill ISR capabilities on the battlefield for almost a decade, none deliver it directly to the squad level where Soldiers need the ability to see around the corner or into the next room during combat missions. When Soldiers and small units need to assess the threat in a village, or in thick canopy terrain where traditional ISR assets cannot penetrate, the CP-ISR can be deployed to provide that capability.
 
 NSRDEC engineers investigated existing commercial off-the-shelf technologies to identify a surrogate CP-ISR system. Prox Dynamics' PD-100 Black Hornet, a palm-sized miniature helicopter weighing only 16 grams, has the ability to fly up to 20 minutes while providing real-time video via a digital data link from one of the three embedded cameras and operates remotely with GPS navigation. Tiny, electric propellers and motors make the device virtually undetectable to subjects under surveillance.

Quote

More at the link
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/article-view/release/158902/us-army-develops-pocket_sized-air-surveillance-device.html

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2014, 08:10:01 pm »
Deep springs technology "flexible body armour". They have received funding from DARPA.
 They presented this as their entry for the SOCOM TALOS suit project.



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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2014, 12:10:18 pm »
SOCOM Broad Agency Announcement For TALOS Suit

On Dec, 18, 2014, U.S. Special Operations Command issued a new broad agency announcement seeking advanced technologies to help special operations forces achieve their missions, with an initial focus on helping to develop an exoskeleton suit for enhanced protection
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2015, 10:17:24 pm »
40MM counter-defilade round

http://ht.ly/GPwTQ
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2015, 12:48:35 am »
40MM counter-defilade round

http://ht.ly/GPwTQ

That's a very interesting like, not just for the round itself but for the whole concept.  Basically, this 40mm round includes some sort of sensor (it doesn't specify what technology is used) to detect cover and explodes when it passes by instead of using a complex laser rangefinder and timed programmable fuse.  It allows the launcher to be just a dumb tube and puts the smarts in the round.

I can see the same type of approach used for all kinds of smart munitions to reduce the load on the soldier and the complexity of the weapons.  How about a 40mm anti-air round, basically a little rocket that looks for an aerial target like a helicopter or light aircraft within it's field of view?  Ditto a guided anti-vehicular round for hitting technicals?
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2015, 02:11:32 pm »
Wearable energy generation for soldiers

http://ht.ly/GS3jL
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2015, 03:51:54 am »
Quote
NDIA SO/LIC 2015: A Look at USSOCOM’s Tactical Assault Light Operator Suit (TALOS) Programme    Always at the forefront of evolving equipment spirals, the Special Operations Forces (SOF) community is witnessing an interesting dichotomy in the development of future protection systems. The past decade of operations has seen SOF operators utilised for a wide range of tasks ranging from direct action raids in complex urban and rural environments in Afghanistan, Iraq and elsewhere, to more cerebral support and influence/surveillance and reconnaissance missions working out of embassies and other governmental/non-governmental organisations.
 It is no surprise that the amount of equipment required for such a diverse range of activities is broad to say the least. However, arguably the most interesting and ongoing development involves a USSOCOM effort, initiated in 2013 by former Commander Adm. Bill McRaven, who became frustrated at hearing of casualties and fatalities taken in the ‘fatal funnel’ stage of a breach of a target building.
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The Tactical Assault Light Operator Suit (TALOS) Programme Current tactics, techniques and procedures (TTPs) see operators ‘stacking up’ outside an entry point before gaining entry and dominating a hallway, room or corridor. However, such choke points have left assaulting troops almost helplessly exposed to small arms fire from opposing forces, sometimes deeply entrenched in the building or compound.
 
 McRaven’s idea was to provide an all-encompassing protective suit to almost guarantee a SOF operator the ability to gain entry into a building without the risk of injury or even death.
 
 Known as the Tactical Assault Light Operator Suit (TALOS) programme - SOCOM dislikes any comparison to the Iron Man suit made famous in recent Hollywood films - it aims to provide ballistic protection and C4ISTAR capabilities alongside environmental systems to enable a soldier to operate for long periods of time in a fully-encapsulated suit
Quote


Quote
Sources close to USSOCOM revealed to MT that working models of a ‘Gen-1’ TALOS solution had been delivered to the organisation ahead of trials at the US Marines Special Operations Command (MARSOC), at Camp Lejeune, NC, where 10 operators will trial the system over an assault course.
Quote



Quote
One such solution offered up by Revision is its Vertical Load Offset System (VLOS), which takes the form of a curved bracket which connects the top of a ballistic helmet to the shoulders of a robotic exoskeleton worn by the same operator, meaning ‘zero weight’ of the helmet is carried by the operator. “It also allows full articulation and range of motion but floats on top of the head and you don’t have that mental drain of a 7lb thing on your head anymore,” Dowling added.
Quote

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Protection of the Neck and Facial Areas  According to USSOCOM figures and gunshot wound maps obtained by MT, 36% of injuries inflicted upon SOF operators are likely to wound the neck and facial areas. So, another option which is gaining traction in the community is that of maxillofacial protection, whose additional weight could be offset by systems similar to Revision’s VLOS.
Quote



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SOF Operator Body Armour Developments There has also been much movement in body armour as worn by SOF operators, again with substantial moves to reduce size and weight in order to increase mobility. Ballistic plates have gradually evolved into thinner and thinner variants with innovative techniques used to disrupt and fragment incoming rounds.
 
Quote


A lot more at the link.
http://www.miltechmag.com/2015/01/ndia-solic-2015-look-at-ussocoms.html[/q][/q][/q][/q][/q][/q][/q][/q][/q]

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2015, 03:56:19 am »
 NDIA SO/LIC 2015: USSOCOM Wish List   
Quote
As the world SOF eyes are always on USSOCOM, below is a list of USSOCOM’s wish list of what it is interested in receiving from industry, academia, individuals, and government laboratories capable of providing the design, construction, and testing of SOF related technologies. The intent is to accelerate the delivery of innovative capabilities
More at the link, Power generation, small arms, body armour and guided small weapons ect.

http://www.miltechmag.com/2015/01/ndia-solic-2015-ussocom-wish-list.html


.

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2015, 12:03:13 am »
http://www.darpa.mil/NewsEvents/Releases/2015/02/09a.aspx

http://www.defenseone.com/technology/2015/02/military-looking-give-troops-super-sensing-abilities/105039/?oref=d-river

Defense one article picture at top has US soldier apparently fighting a robot soldier???


Going by the color of the text next to the robot being the same light blue as the U.S. Soldier I'd say its a friendly.:)
« Last Edit: February 11, 2015, 12:06:46 am by John21 »

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2015, 03:19:30 pm »



Quote
Canada’s proposed “smart gun” design combines a 5.56mm automatic rifle using case-telescope ammunition and either a 40mm grenade launcher or a 12-gauge shotgun, increasing firepower and improving tactical flexibility. (DRDC photo)
Quote

Quote
Canada Develops New Integrated Assault Rifle Concept
More firepower, improved accuracy and smart integrated accessories that connect to command and control networks are the headline features of the new integrated assault rifle concept that Defence Research and Development Canada (DRDC) and Colt Canada have developed for the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF).
 
 The prototype, in development since 2009 through the Soldier Integrated Precision Effects Systems (SIPES) project, includes a firing mechanism to shoot lightweight cased telescoped ammunition, a secondary effects module for increased firepower and a NATO standard power and data rail to integrate accessories like electro-optical sights and position sensors.
 
 In order to support the multi-role nature of the weapon, the prototype’s secondary effects module features the ability to install either a three round 40 mm grenade launcher, or a 12-gauge shotgun. When optimized, the integrated weapon prototype could weigh less than a C7 equipped with a M203 grenade launcher, reducing the burden on soldiers.
 
 “In the medium term, this weapon concept represents a lethal, flexible general-purpose platform,” said Lieutenant-Colonel Serge Lapointe, from the Soldier Systems group in Director Land Requirements – Soldier Systems (DLR 5) of the Canadian Army. “It will be able to operate in all theatres of operations in the most complex terrain including urban areas, mountains, jungles, deserts and the Arctic.”
 
 The development of the weapon prototype posed a considerable challenge. DRDC scientists analyzed advanced material technologies that could replace the metal used in heavy components. The lightweight case telescoped ammunition was tested extensively with the support of the Munitions Experimental Test Centre in Valcartier, Quebec to assess its long-term aging behaviour.
 
 Scientists also studied how to increase the rifle’s accuracy using technology that can automatically detect targets and assist with engaging them. Questions related to the sensors needed to accurately geo-locate targets for target data sharing were also investigated.
 
 How the soldier interacts with the weapon was also the subject of numerous human factor trials. Ergonomic and weapon prototype handling tests were performed by Human Systems Inc., under the supervision of DRDC scientists, with CAF soldiers from military bases in Petawawa and Edmonton. The testing was crucial to developing optimal design criteria to meet the CAF’s needs for the Small Arms Modernization project.
 
 In addition, lessons learned by both DRDC personnel and the CAF during their deployment in Afghanistan revealed critical elements that informed the prototype weapon development process with respect to its design and functionality.
 
 “The results of the first phase of the project have shown that DRDC expertise can be used to provide the Canadian Armed Forces with solid scientific data so they can make more informed decisions for their major acquisition projects,” said Dr. Guy Vézina, the Director General for S&T Army, DRDC.
 
 The new weapon prototype is a promising development for the soldier of the future. The integration of electronic components will allow soldiers to generate or receive data from the command and control network. In the next phase of development, automated target detection and assisted target engagement will be the subject of an in-depth study in the Future Small Arms Research (FSAR) project.
 
 Finally, the development of the integrated weapon prototype and the continuing analysis of promising technologies should facilitate the acquisition of the next generation of small arms by the CAF. The data collected and the analyses documented so far by DRDC scientists will be used in conjunction with the data and analyses that will be generated in the FSAR project to develop the technical criteria that will form part of the statement of operational requirement documentation for the CAF Small Arms Modernization project.
Quote
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/160943/canada-develops-new-integrated-assault-rifle-concept.html

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2015, 01:12:15 am »
A vid of the Canadian "smart gun"




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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2015, 03:48:44 am »
Somewhat surprising, as this grenade is mentioned to have mainly blast effect. And AFAIK, this effect
is proportional to the inverse cube roote law. So, using three grenades would certainly not increase
the blast effect 3 times, but just use up the soldiers stock of grenades. The number of splinters, of course
would be tripled. 
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2015, 05:42:08 am »
It's an offensive grenade, so one goal is to minimize fragmentation.  Some descriptions suggest they're actually thermobaric, to maximize blast effect. The explosive load in a single unit is less than the current offensive grenade, but it sounds as though the actual blast effect is considerably more.  It seems this is as much a hasty demolition charge as an actual grenade -- more for knocking down small buildings than for room clearing. 

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2015, 03:51:19 pm »
Weapon system in a box

http://htl.li/L1NPz

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2015, 02:18:01 am »
Biohackers develop night vision eye drops to see in the dark

Quote
Biohacking group Science for the Masses has been experimenting with night vision eye drops...   Biohacking group Science for the Masses has been experimenting with night vision eye drops (Photo: Science for the Masses)
 Image Gallery (2 images)   It sounds like something from a science-fiction movie, but a biohacking group in California has managed to develop eye drops that temporarily give a human being excellent night vision. The chemicals used are still very much at the experimental stage – this isn't something you'd want to try at home just yet – but the first trial has been a successful one.
The main ingredient in the eye drop solution is Chlorin e6. It's found in certain deep sea fish, enabling them to find their way around underwater, and it's also been used to treat humans with poor night vision. Essentially, it creates a microscopic chemical reaction that amplifies low light sources as they pass through.
By combining Ce6 with insulin in a saline solution, the Science for the Masses group was able to create a mixture that gave excellent night vision for several hours. The solution was dropped into the the conjunctival sac between the eyeball and eyelid, where it could be absorbed into the retina. The initial black color disappeared after a few seconds according to the researchers.
The members of Science for the Masses ran through several tests using different distances and backgrounds, though the main volunteer Gabriel Licina was forced to wear sunglasses indoors to counter the effects of the interior lighting. Licina was able to recognize people up to 50 m (164 ft) away in a wooded area, even in total darkness.
 The solution uses Chlorin e6, a chemical found in some deep water fish (Photo: Science for... "The Ce6 subject consistently recognized symbols that did not seem to be visible to the controls," the team explains in the full report. "The Ce6 subject identified the distant figures 100 percent of the time, with the controls showing a 33 percent identification rate."
That's quite a difference, though the organization says it's fully aware this is a one-off experiment and plenty more research will be required to ascertain the safety and suitability of this particular biohack. By the morning, the Ce6 subject's eyes had returned to normal, and no ill effects have been reported 20 days later.
The team says the next stage is to use a Ganzfeld stimulator and an electroretinograph, devices which can be combined to accurately measure the level of electrical stimulation and activity in the eye. This will give Science for the Masses more data to play with and more evidence that their Ce6 solution is working as it should (and working safely).
Science for the Masses is made up of professionals in the research, technical design, and healthcare industries, and like the members of several other biohacking groups they devote their spare time to testing the limits of the human body. The idea of using science to extend the capabilities of human beings doesn't sit well with everyone, but the rise of these types of projects and high-tech wearables means it's an issue we're going to have to deal with in the near future.
Quote
http://www.gizmag.com/biohackers-night-vision-eyedrops/36797/



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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2015, 11:50:57 am »
Ray Milland called...He'd like his eye drops back...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057693/

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2015, 07:35:17 am »
Something one doesnt want in their eye and more argument for encompassing environmental suits. Environmental control will become as necessary as added endurance.

http://news.yahoo.com/full-circle-chlorine-now-chemical-weapon-choice-syria-093039236.html

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #31 on: April 26, 2015, 08:52:13 pm »
Ah, OK, now I understand.  Thanks for the links.

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #33 on: May 04, 2015, 11:02:11 am »
Brain to computer communication

http://www.army.mil/article/147819
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« Last Edit: May 06, 2015, 07:11:08 am by bobbymike »
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #35 on: May 06, 2015, 08:02:19 am »
That last bit about fused night vision and thermal imaging is odd.  The AN/PSQ-20 has been fielded for 4 years now.









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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #37 on: May 07, 2015, 08:42:51 am »
New light machine gun: M249 put on weight control

http://www.army.mil/article/148002/New_light_machine_gun__M249_put_on_weight_control/

May 6, 2015

PICATINNY ARSENAL, N.J. (Army News Service, May 6, 2015) -- When engineers here looked at the heavy, 17.5-pound M249 carried by Soldiers, they decided to put it on a diet and rearrange some of the components, Kori Phillips said.

 She said when her team was finished, the M249, formerly known as the Squad Automatic Weapon, went from 17.5 to 9.2 pounds. That is only about 2 pounds heavier than the M16A2 rifle.

 The M249 light machine gun also took on a longer name. It is now called the Cased Telescoped Light Machine Gun, or CT LMG.

 Phillips, who spoke during media day here, May 4, is a project engineer with the Joint Service Small Arms Program.

 No new exotic metals were used to lighten it, she said, just machining components down in size. As for rearrangements, the biggest was detaching the firing chamber from the barrel.

 The new, external firing chamber has the added benefit of keeping the gun cooler and reducing the likelihood of rounds cooking off in the chamber, Phillips said.

 As for the rounds, program engineers designed new ones that are cased in a plastic-like substance, replacing the brass cartridges. This, she said, has resulted in a 39-percent reduction of ammo weight.

 The CT LMG was test-fired by Soldiers on Fort Benning, Georgia, in September 2011, she said. Those and subsequent tests showed the CT LMG to achieve 25 percent more first-round target hits than the heavier model M249 now in use.

 The Soldiers liked it so much, some of the squad leaders said they wanted every Soldier in their squad to have one, she said.

 They cannot though, she said, because it is still considered in development until long-term testing determines how well it stands up over time, and, of course it would have to become a program of record. Another round of testing begins this fall. No other timetable was given.

 GRENADE MUNITIONS

 CT LMG was not the only new developmental weapon on display for media day. Dozens of other systems were too, including a 40mm grenade, which Soldiers can launch from their rifle-mounted grenade launchers.

 This is nothing like your grandfather or even father's M433 grenade, fielded in the early 1970s, however.

 It is an "autonomous, air-bursting, low velocity" grenade with a "smart fuse," said Steven Gilbert, project manager, Small Arms Grenade Munitions.

 Autonomous means Soldiers do not have to do anything different than they do now when they fire grenades except to ensure it is the new autonomous one, he said.

 The smart fuse, he said, senses when the grenade is going over a wall and when it does, it air bursts, presumably taking out adversaries hiding behind the wall.

 Asked whether it could do the same to an enemy hiding behind a tree, Gilbert said yes, it senses that as well and would burst just as it passes the tree trunk.

 Gilbert said that the proximity sensor in the fuse is smart enough to detect clutter nearby the triggering obstacle. The triggering obstacle could be things like a wall or a tree from 50 to 200 meters.

 Asked what sort of sensor the grenade contains that differentiates clutter from triggering obstacles, Gilbert said that is highly classified.

 The new grenade, which does not have a name yet, can also point detonate up to 400 meters like an ordinary M433. If the sensor doesn't detect a valid obstacle, it simply explodes on impact.

 Testing in February showed an airburst reliability of 76 percent. Gilbert did not have a timeline beyond that, as it is not a program of record and is incubating in development.

 STAYING ON TRACK

 It is hard to stay on track at Picatinny since trees grow between its 1903 Carnegie Steel rails over which ammo trains once rolled during the two world wars. Trucks do the job now.

 But scientists and engineers still need to stay on track in the development process, and that can be a problem when the main thing they understand is physics and materials, said Andrea Stevens, Armament Research, Development and Engineering Center's manager for innovation, who keeps their projects from derailing.

 There is a lot more than lab work needed to keep a development on track, she said. For example, there is an entire process for getting patents approved - and Picatinny produces more patents each year than any other Army installation. Also, there is the matter of latching on to a funding stream because without that, a project lacks enough steam to move down the track.

 And, she said, there are a lot of other things a project might need help on such as modeling. It is one thing to see how a part looks in a CAD drawing and it is another to actually hold the part in your hand.

 Today, ordinary people can buy 3-D printers to do that in plastic, she said. Picatinny has those.

 Picatinny also has a 3-D printer that can print out various types of flexible plastics and even printed circuit cards used in computers and electronics. That really speeds the development cycle, she said.

 The arsenal also houses a 3-D printer that prints in various types of metals so that the prototyped part produced also accurately represents the feel, strength and heft of the one being developed.

 Ralph Tillinghast, lab director for the Collaboration Innovation Lab, has that state-of-the art printer that produces 3-D metal objects in many shapes and sizes and even can do very intricate, thread-like details.

 The lab's printer does it with lasers, he said. It shoots out a layer of metal and then builds another layer on top of that. Each new layer is welded onto the existing layer by the laser. It can do most metal including steel, stainless steel and even cobalt and titanium.

 It does not do so well with aluminum, however, which is considered a soft metal, he said.

 Tillinghast said his lab also uses machines parts. He showed a large, heavy bronze part that goes inside an M2A2 aiming circle, which may have been manufactured during World War II and is still in use today for aiming mortars and artillery, sort of like a compass.

 He then showed an aluminum part in the exact shape as the bronze one that could be used in its place. Of course, the aluminum was much lighter.

 Asked about its strength, he said the aluminum one was actually stronger than the bronze one because it contained strengthening alloys similar to those used in high-performance aircraft parts.

 Whatever the engineers need, Stevens and Tillinghast help them and their projects stay on the modernization track.
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #38 on: May 07, 2015, 12:45:24 pm »
New light machine gun: M249 put on weight control

http://www.army.mil/article/148002/New_light_machine_gun__M249_put_on_weight_control/

May 6, 2015

PICATINNY ARSENAL, N.J. (Army News Service, May 6, 2015) -- When engineers here looked at the heavy, 17.5-pound M249 carried by Soldiers, they decided to put it on a diet and rearrange some of the components, Kori Phillips said.

 She said when her team was finished, the M249, formerly known as the Squad Automatic Weapon, went from 17.5 to 9.2 pounds. That is only about 2 pounds heavier than the M16A2 rifle.

 The M249 light machine gun also took on a longer name. It is now called the Cased Telescoped Light Machine Gun, or CT LMG.

 Phillips, who spoke during media day here, May 4, is a project engineer with the Joint Service Small Arms Program.

 No new exotic metals were used to lighten it, she said, just machining components down in size. As for rearrangements, the biggest was detaching the firing chamber from the barrel.

 The new, external firing chamber has the added benefit of keeping the gun cooler and reducing the likelihood of rounds cooking off in the chamber, Phillips said.

 As for the rounds, program engineers designed new ones that are cased in a plastic-like substance, replacing the brass cartridges. This, she said, has resulted in a 39-percent reduction of ammo weight.

 The CT LMG was test-fired by Soldiers on Fort Benning, Georgia, in September 2011, she said. Those and subsequent tests showed the CT LMG to achieve 25 percent more first-round target hits than the heavier model M249 now in use.

 The Soldiers liked it so much, some of the squad leaders said they wanted every Soldier in their squad to have one, she said.

 They cannot though, she said, because it is still considered in development until long-term testing determines how well it stands up over time, and, of course it would have to become a program of record. Another round of testing begins this fall. No other timetable was given.








This article makes it sound like the M249 was modified when in fact they are talking about an entirely new gun derived from the LSAT program.  I'm not sure where LSAT is going.  I would guess that the logistics of setting up case telescoped ammunition (or the caseless alternative) may be causing second thoughts.
















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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #39 on: May 07, 2015, 01:13:27 pm »
WE4-45-1-08     OMHIWDMB
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #40 on: May 07, 2015, 03:11:31 pm »
Where LSAT is going depends on who you talk to. The most recent news I've seen was that they're putting together prototypes in additional calibers. 7.62mm to compare with the current NATO round the same way they did for 5.56mm, and and all-new round in the 6.5-7mm range.


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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #41 on: May 07, 2015, 03:16:43 pm »
The last vid I linked to (the Compact LSAT one) mentions the move to develop a 7.62 version.


The US Army awardd a contract last year to develop a 7.62 version


http://kitup.military.com/2014/06/army-awards-contract-7-62mm-lsat.html


Quote
Under this two-year award, the LSAT team will develop a cased-telescoped carbine, as well as 7.62mm CT ammunition and a machine gun operating mechanism, the release states.


The team includes Alliant Techsystems, ARES Incorporated, MSC Software and St. Marks Powder. It plans to build on the current LSAT technology, which consists of includes the compact light machine gun with a quick-change, 12-inch barrel and folding buttstock. It was developed for close-quarters applications and tested in 2012 by the U.S. Army Special Operations Command.


The effort has also produced the operating mechanism for a carbine variant.


More info (including preliminary 7.62 test data):


http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2014armaments/Wed16533_Shipley.pdf
« Last Edit: May 07, 2015, 03:29:17 pm by SpudmanWP »
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #42 on: May 08, 2015, 03:00:51 pm »
The Finnish military's new helmet, the Savok THOR integrated helmet system.





The Savox THOR system is an extremely modular helmet platform that can be extended by adding more capabilities to the system on the fly, making this a truly integrated design. (Photos: Savox)


Savox' FLEXrail and FLEXpower on the THOR system. Five innovative rails power everything that is attached to the helmet.


Quote
Under “Helmet System 2020,” which started 2010 as part of the Finnish “Technology Programme – Warrior,” Savox went ahead to have better ergonomics compared to the existing combat helmet, and to have a completely integrated system. Soldiers often complained that their helmets were not comfortable to carry, when communications, NVGs, and eye wear were connected to the helmet. With initial discussions having started back in 2004, research began in 2010. At IDEX 2014 Savox is introducing a ‘headgear system’ that has a boltless design for increased ballistic protection: The Savox THOR system.
Savox THOR – A Total Integrated System The Savox THOR system is extremely modular, as the helmet platform can be extended by adding more capabilities to the system on the fly, sensors, lights, protective visors etc. via five innovative powered rails (FLEXrail – with four integrated software defined IR- and microphone buttons) that, via common power management (FLEXpower), supplies all devices and communications attached to the helmet, making this a truly integrated design.

Savox, being the prime for Finland’s Warrior 2020 Soldier Modernisation Programme helmet, works together with FY-Composites, who supply the ballistic shell, and Millog for the NVGs.
 
 The helmet can be adjusted to changing operational requirements by changing the ballistic protection level of the helmet easily via Savox’ FLEXfix technology. FLEXfit provides the possibility to personalise the fitting of each helmet individually for each user according to the head shape and size, including a fast ratchet type of size adjustment. The helmet system provides state-of-the-art ballistic protection thanks to a boltless helmet shell based on the latest Dyneema and aramid material technology via FY-Composites (protection against ballistic threats: fragments and bullets; STANAG 2920 1.1g FSP-v50: 450. 750m/s – back face deformation <25mm; NIJ0106.01 9 mm FMJ bullet 430m/s; and fulfills EN 397 shock absorption requirements). Savox completely re-thought ergonomics resulting in ultimate comfort and stability, making the helmet shell an individual system component that can be removed while maintaining all other features, still delivering BUMP protection (e.g. EN812). The protection level and area can be tailored and varied.
 
 The NVGs are totally integrated in the design with new 60° view angle (also available in the standard 40° field of view). Using 2nd/3rd generation night vision technology, THOR employs Millog’s Hi60, with a human recognition up to 150-250m and an integrated IR illuminator. NVGs can be attached in single or dual configuration, and completely customisable according to customer specifications.

Savox THOR is Using the FLEX Family of Technology
 
 
  • FLEXadjust provides a flexible and adjustable mounting and positioning of both NVG goggles, hearing protection cups and other accessories. The solution is based upon a multi-axis and multi leverage fixation points in order to warrant a personalised fitting that is easy to adjust to each soldier. FLEXpower provides a power distribution capability to all sensors and communication devices that are attached to the helmet, providing the capability to supply the helmet power internally to all systems, as well as providing and managing the power from external bigger centralised power packs to these helmet mounted sensors and communications devices.
  • FLEXnet technology provides sensor data routing capability internally of the helmet, as well as connection to external data routers and/or data radios. 
  • FLEXrail provides the mounting rail capability to the headgear system with an open USB integration interface for third party accessory products, such as sensors, NVGs, lights, cameras, etc., as well as standalone existing picatinny rail mounting accessories.
  • FLEXfix provides the possibility to personalise the fitting of each headgear system individually for each user according to the head shape and size. The technology provides as well a fast ratchet type of size adjustment.
  • [/l][/l]
THOR’s ergonomic mounting solution and weight distribution makes it more comfortable to use, gives it less fatigue, and a smaller profile. The NVGs positioning result in a lower impact point, with the consequence of less destroyed NVGs. And, with the powerpack positioned on the back of the helmet, there is no need for additional counter weights, resulting in a remarkable weight reduction. The helmet is compatible with protective glasses, goggles, and gas masks, i.e. no need to take off the helmet.

The helmet is designed for Mounted (in combination and used with Savox IMP and similar systems) and Dismounted operations (used with the SAVOX URIC and similar products).
 
 For integrated communications and hearing protection, THOR incorporates integrated ear speakers for radio communication; a boom microphone and bone conductive skull, throat, or respirator microphone options; volume adjustment by integrated buttons; connectivity options for tactical radios and intercom systems; optional PTT buttons; integrated hearing protection against battlefield noise (SNR 23dB or better); and talk through feature for improved situational awareness. The helmet’s three-position mounting system allows for easy ventilation without removing the helmet or losing communications.
 
 The THOR system has been built around the integration requirements found in advanced soldier modernisation programmes, allowing for a seamless integration of: Communications, sensors, situational awareness, protection, and cover, while allowing for a full modularity based upon mission and training requirements.
 
 Additionally, THOR is designed specifically for use with digital platform intercom solutions and military digital two-way radios, allowing for programmable features and capabilities, which give the user the capacity to customise for the soldier’s specific needs.
 
 The headgear system’s modular concept as a complete integrated system consists of:
 
 
[/q][/l]
   
  • Head protection: ballistic and shock,
  • Communications,
  • Hearing protection,
  • NVGs,
  • Powered accessory rails, and
  • Centralised power management.
  • [/l]

    Ergo, a modular structure that allows the user to choose the best set-up in a mission-specific way.
     This project - to develop a new "Helmet System 2020 "- started 2010 as part of Finnish "Technology Program - Warrior".
     
     According to Lt.Col. Matti Honkela, PM Warrior 2020, Army Acquisition Coordinator, “Our aim was to have better ergonomics compared to existing combat helmets and to have a completely integrated system.”
     
     Paying close attention to Finland’s arctic conditions and ease of use of the sub systems, “tests were carried out during 2012-2014,” explained LtCol. Honkela. “I think that in this kind of project the feedback from the soldiers is of high importance. Sometimes the feedback - based on testing - has been very demanding. But, I think that is only way to develop a product that satisfies a soldier’s needs.”
     
     When asked how he rates this project, the Army Acquisition Coordinator said:”So far we have been happy with the product and cooperation with the industry.”
     
    Quote
    http://www.miltechmag.com/2015/02/idex-2015-savox-tactical-headgear.html[/q][/q][/q]
« Last Edit: May 08, 2015, 03:07:47 pm by muttbutt »

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #44 on: May 08, 2015, 04:03:55 pm »
Given what a monumental mess the recent inter-service camo wars have been, I hope the Marines play nice this time.

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #45 on: May 08, 2015, 04:22:51 pm »
Given what a monumental mess the recent inter-service camo wars have been, I hope the Marines play nice this time.
I'm not sure they have to mess around with a new patterns so much as the material it's printed on...but knowing the tendency to fix things not broken you just know someone in the organisation will try to fiddle with things too much.

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #47 on: May 14, 2015, 02:18:10 pm »
"Another factor in favor of their cost is that with enhanced accuracy "60 to 70 percent fewer rounds are required to defeat a target," Shields said. That not only means fewer rounds need to be fired, it also means fewer rounds need to be carried, thus reducing the logistical tail."

This has been largely disproved long ago already.
PGM-type munitions don't lead to much saving of logistical efforts because many more targets become worthwhile with the new precision.

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #50 on: May 16, 2015, 07:03:07 am »
Future army heads up display:

http://htl.li/MZOsS

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #52 on: May 18, 2015, 09:12:57 pm »
Reducing the logistics tail to FOB's

http://htl.li/N6fy0
« Last Edit: May 19, 2015, 06:01:34 am by bobbymike »
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #53 on: May 20, 2015, 12:07:01 pm »
 Revision’s Kinetic Operations Suit  Based on development of USSOCOM’s TALOS program, the Kinetic Operations Suit from Revision Military incorporates a variety of technologies.
Most obvious is the distinctive Armageddon camouflage pattern.  The operator wears the Prowler exoskeleton powered by Revision Sharepack.  The exoskeleton bears the weight of the system as well as ancillary mission equipment. And can be up armored with XSAPI level plates as well as frag protection on the lower leg.  Up top is the Vertical Load Offset System which equates to zero helmet weight born by the operator’s neck.  The ballistic helmet is 100% polyethylene with cutout for use with augmented vision systems. The ensemble also includes a scalable armor vest that goes from 18% vital area chest coverage all the way up to 60%.
http://soldiersystems.net/2015/05/19/sofic-2015-revisions-kinetic-operations-suit/



« Last Edit: May 20, 2015, 12:10:23 pm by muttbutt »

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #56 on: May 24, 2015, 01:05:29 am »
http://nextbigfuture.com/2015/05/augmented-reality-systems-set-to.html

Video at the bottom of story shows a tailless/canard fighter and a little later a X-44 looking aircraft. Yes I know it's a corporate video but interesting nonetheless IMHO.
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #57 on: May 26, 2015, 03:54:44 am »
... and a little later a X-44 looking aircraft. ..

Could be one of those FOAS proposals, I think.
( http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1202.msg220379.html#msg220379 )
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #58 on: May 27, 2015, 01:37:34 pm »
http://www.army.mil/article/148993/

Guided Enhanced Fragmentation Mortar
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« Last Edit: June 19, 2015, 07:02:04 am by bobbymike »
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #66 on: July 05, 2015, 01:35:33 pm »
I wonder what the status is for the XM-25.  I stumbled across a 4 year old video showing it deployed in Afghanistan but I haven't found anything new.   I think it was supposed to be going through one last round of soldier proofing before entering production.  ATK hasn't made any new videos about it for years.


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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #67 on: July 13, 2015, 08:14:36 am »
http://www.army.mil/article/151794/

Universal all in one touch screen displays for US Army
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #72 on: August 07, 2015, 12:26:32 pm »



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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #73 on: September 03, 2015, 10:49:13 am »
http://www.army.mil/article/154883/

PICATINNY ARSENAL, N.J. (Sept. 2, 2015) -- Crouched on the desert floor, a Soldier watches an enemy vehicle rolling in the distance and gauges its range to her platoon. However, when she's calculated the distance, rather than radio her platoon leader, the Soldier grabs her phone and relays the information with a software system called the Leader/Soldier Effects Tool Suite.

 The tool suite, also known as LETS, is designed to provide the dismounted Soldier the capability to plan, coordinate and execute fires quickly and efficiently.

 LETS functions on hand-held devices, such as mobile phones, and vehicle platforms. Its users can share firing details including range assessment, battle damage assessment, weapon emplacement, and control measures.

 By using LETS, Soldiers can also coordinate tasking, track team members, illustrate sector sketchers and target nominations, and notify other users about strike warnings. Moreover, the software includes customizable settings and a "help" button if users forget how to perform a particular function.

 The tool suite works within the Maneuver Aviation Fires Integrated Application, which is designed to work on Nett Warrior, a handheld device that assists with combat operations.
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #75 on: September 08, 2015, 03:34:18 am »
http://www.janes.com/article/53990/mspo-2015-fabryka-broni-unveils-full-msbs-5-56-rifle-family

New Polish assault rifle

"The rifle is to be a successor of Soviet SKS carbines in use since the 1960s." LOL, Jane's sure isn't what it used to be in terms of accuracy of information.

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #78 on: September 14, 2015, 01:48:06 pm »


Future soldier energy tech.
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #82 on: September 29, 2015, 02:19:13 pm »
This may prove relevant (ft.com, registration may be required).

Quote
Computer algorithm created to encode human memories

Clive Cookson, Science Editor


Researchers in the US have developed an implant to help a disabled brain encode memories, giving new hope to Alzheimer’s sufferers and wounded soldiers who cannot remember the recent past.

The prosthetic, developed at the University of Southern California and Wake Forest Baptist Medical Centre in a decade-long collaboration, includes a small array of electrodes implanted into the brain.

The key to the research is a computer algorithm that mimics the electrical signalling used by the brain to translate short-term into permanent memories.

This makes it possible to bypass a damaged or diseased region, even though there is no way of “reading” a memory — decoding its content or meaning from its electrical signal.

“It’s like being able to translate from Spanish to French without being able to understand either language,” said Ted Berger of USC, the project leader.

The prosthesis has performed well in tests on rats and monkeys. Now it is being evaluated in human brains, the team told the international conference of the IEEE Engineering in Medicine and Biology Society in Milan.

The project is funded by Darpa, the US Defence Advanced Research Projects Agency, which is interested in new ways to help soldiers recover from memory loss.

But the researchers say findings could eventually help to treat neurodegenerative diseases, including Alzheimer’s, by enabling signals to bypass damaged circuitry in the hippocampus, the brain’s memory centre.

Sensory inputs to the brain — sights, sounds, smells or feelings — create complex electrical signals, known as spike trains, which travel through the hippocampus. This neural process involves re-encoding the signals several times, so they have a quite different electrical signature by the time they are ready for long-term storage.

Damage that interferes with this translation may prevent the formation of long-term memories while old ones survive — which is why some people with brain damage or disease recall events from long ago but not from the recent past.

The translation algorithm, derived first from animal experiments, has been extended into humans by studying nine people with epilepsy who had electrodes implanted in the hippocampus to treat chronic seizures.

The researchers read the electrical input and output signals created in the patients’ brains as they conducted simple tasks, such as remembering the position of different shapes on a computer screen.

These results were used to refine the algorithm until it could predict with 90 per cent accuracy how the signals would be translated.

“Being able to predict neural signals with the USC model suggests that it can be used to design a device to support or replace the function of a damaged part of the brain,” said Robert Hampson of Wake Forest.

The next step will be to send the translated signal back into the brain of a patient with hippocampal damage, in the hope that this will bypass the trouble spot and form an accurate long-term memory.

The project at USC and Wake Forest is a vivid example of the progress being made in neurotechnology by scientists around the world.

Researchers elsewhere are implanting devices that enable people who are paralysed to carry out simple movements with robotic arms or even their own limbs. But no one else is using computers to manipulate memory signals directly in the human brain.
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #84 on: October 08, 2015, 06:12:11 pm »
Hmm, I'd hope that the electrolytes and cathode types used are of the more stable; it'd suck to survive having your plate penetrated by an unlucky shot, only to then catch fire from a battery thermal runaway or suffer poisoning from HF fumes, or electrolyte solutions.

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #86 on: October 15, 2015, 03:29:52 am »
Finally something new about the XM25.  Looks like a modest re-design based on Afghanistan operational results.  At this point you would think it would go into LRIP unless SOCOM is already running around with hand made versions.


http://www.military.com/video/guns/grenade-launchers/ausa-2015-orbital-atk-xm25/4558131685001/

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #91 on: November 20, 2015, 04:13:14 am »
I did a forum search for TrackingPoint rifles but didn't find anything.  If this is covered elsewhere please delete.  This has been around for a while so I figured it must have been posted.


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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #94 on: December 02, 2015, 12:33:36 am »
I did a forum search for TrackingPoint rifles but didn't find anything.

Very Halo, I like it!
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #97 on: December 16, 2015, 10:51:29 am »
the Darpa Squad-x contracts were just released..  there is no "X" about them.  Mostly a bunch more C2 software competitor's. Questionable as human machine interface should/probably has already been done. no mention what Army or Marine C2 developments are. Even their slides display incompetence. A genuine Squad x would be fighting much deeper and against larger formations. There slides show fighting another squad w/ quad rotors (15 min. flash)and big dog bots (loud slow)... More than questionable.

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #98 on: December 16, 2015, 07:01:47 pm »
the Darpa Squad-x contracts were just released..  there is no "X" about them.  Mostly a bunch more C2 software competitor's. Questionable as human machine interface should/probably has already been done. no mention what Army or Marine C2 developments are. Even their slides display incompetence. A genuine Squad x would be fighting much deeper and against larger formations. There slides show fighting another squad w/ quad rotors (15 min. flash)and big dog bots (loud slow)... More than questionable.

I was hoping for Heinleinian MI troopers wearing powered exosuits and bounding in 1/4 mile jumps launching micro pure fusion nukes at brigade sized armored forces.  :o
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #99 on: December 16, 2015, 07:40:34 pm »
the Darpa Squad-x contracts were just released..  there is no "X" about them.  Mostly a bunch more C2 software competitor's. Questionable as human machine interface should/probably has already been done. no mention what Army or Marine C2 developments are. Even their slides display incompetence. A genuine Squad x would be fighting much deeper and against larger formations. There slides show fighting another squad w/ quad rotors (15 min. flash)and big dog bots (loud slow)... More than questionable.

I was hoping for Heinleinian MI troopers wearing powered exosuits and bounding in 1/4 mile jumps launching micro pure fusion nukes at brigade sized armored forces.  :o
uh oh
http://breakingdefense.com/2015/12/will-us-pursue-enhanced-human-ops-depsecdef-wonders/

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #101 on: December 23, 2015, 10:24:48 am »
the Darpa Squad-x contracts were just released..  there is no "X" about them.  Mostly a bunch more C2 software competitor's. Questionable as human machine interface should/probably has already been done. no mention what Army or Marine C2 developments are. Even their slides display incompetence. A genuine Squad x would be fighting much deeper and against larger formations. There slides show fighting another squad w/ quad rotors (15 min. flash)and big dog bots (loud slow)... More than questionable.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/12/22/marine-corps-shelves-futuristic-robo-mule-due-to-noise-concerns.html

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #102 on: December 23, 2015, 10:35:08 am »
The sole imperative of a government, once instituted, is to survive.

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #103 on: December 26, 2015, 10:39:24 pm »
Italian V-shield Mk VI exoskeleton armour from Mechlab.


A video of it in testing etc.

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #106 on: January 06, 2016, 07:56:38 pm »
SOCOM eyes soft-body armor technology that can withstand projectiles

U.S. Special Operations Command is seeking industry input for a soft-body armor technology that can withstand different projectiles as part of an effort to "accelerate the delivery of innovative capabilities" to the warfighter, according to a recent notice.
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #111 on: January 21, 2016, 10:40:24 pm »
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #112 on: January 25, 2016, 09:32:34 pm »
http://www.army.mil/article/161228/

New 120MM multi-purpose round.
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #113 on: February 03, 2016, 01:21:03 pm »
If you go to page 47 of the National Commission on the Future of the Army report, there is a picture of the SOCOM TALOS suit.

URL: http://www.ncfa.ncr.gov/sites/default/files/NCFA_Full%20Final%20Report_0.pdf

I don't know if it has been posted yet.

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #114 on: February 03, 2016, 02:40:03 pm »
That's Revison's Kinetic operations suit. It was their idea for the TALOS programme. :)

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #115 on: February 23, 2016, 07:21:05 am »
http://www.army.mil/article/162556/

Patent limited range projectile for urban warfare.
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #116 on: February 23, 2016, 07:43:49 am »
http://www.army.mil/article/162556/

Patent limited range projectile for urban warfare.

Wow, a great find. thank you for posting.

Epitomizes the disturbing state...  these folks are looking at no program and embarrassingly poor reward for discovery and thus future initiative . Army should assist them to safely start an independent company (if truly warranted) and fund a program to mature it and related tech.

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #121 on: February 24, 2016, 09:24:28 am »
Once a system enters production (even LRIP) does it lose its' "X" designation?  I didn't see any news releases from Orbital ATK on their website about this.  Is H&K the subcontractor on the actual gun?  The sight/ballistic computer module is from L-3 Brashear.

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #122 on: February 24, 2016, 11:09:37 am »
Once a system enters production (even LRIP) does it lose its' "X" designation?  I didn't see any news releases from Orbital ATK on their website about this. Is H&K the subcontractor on the actual gun? The sight/ballistic computer module is from L-3 Brashear.
Yeah the basic weapon is H&K, the sight is L-3, the ammunition is Orbital ATK. Orbital ATK is also the lead on the full "XM-25 weapon system."

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #125 on: March 01, 2016, 04:49:23 am »
Regarding the TRW rifle, from a couple of older threads:

I guess I should have clarified that I am interested in "design for cheapness" and "design for simplicity" like the Hillberg shotgun, the Liberator pistol or the Sten gun, not just cheap and dirty copies of other, wise standard firearms.

Here's another one, the TRW low maintenance rifle, also intended as a easier to use weapon for insurgents that didn't require the meticulous care and feeding of the M16 back then (or the M4 carbine today).



TRW LMR on world.guns.ru

Anyone know of anything else more along those lines?

A few links relating to the TRW Low Maintenance Rifle:

http://world.guns.ru/assault/usa/trw-lmr-e.html
http://www.forgottenweapons.com/trw-low-maintenance-rifle/
http://www.forgottenweapons.com/low-maintenance-rifle-photos/

Interesting. I'm rather surprised that the US Army chose a company more associated with the Space Race and satellites to design firearms, that said it would appear to that TRW got the design right and I'm surprised that no enterprising small arms manufacturer has seen fit to revive the design.

Anyone tried an FOI request to see if more could be dug up about the decision making process behind this one?
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #126 on: March 02, 2016, 04:30:13 pm »
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #128 on: March 05, 2016, 06:49:19 pm »
http://www.janes.com/article/58501/uk-royal-marine-unit-ditches-the-sa80-for-colt-c8

Quote
The logic behind the move was because the L119 has "reduced ricochet, limited collateral damage" features. Both the L119 and L85A2 are chambered in the NATO-standard 5.56x45 mm round, indicating that 43 Commando will be using a low-velocity round for its L119s.

Short-range, lower velocity rounds.  Not the role the L85 was originally designed for.

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #129 on: March 05, 2016, 07:40:51 pm »
Probably shooting the Reduced Ricochet Low Penetration round developed for USSOCOM.  It's copper and polymer cored -- basically a very accurate frangible round -- which makes it ideal for troops doing nuclear weapons security and shipboard operations.  The L85 supposedly isn't very reliable with anything that isn't Radway Green spec so adopting fancy new ammo means you need a new rifle to go with it.

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #130 on: March 06, 2016, 01:09:13 am »
Probably shooting the Reduced Ricochet Low Penetration round developed for USSOCOM.  It's copper and polymer cored -- basically a very accurate frangible round -- which makes it ideal for troops doing nuclear weapons security and shipboard operations.  The L85 supposedly isn't very reliable with anything that isn't Radway Green spec so adopting fancy new ammo means you need a new rifle to go with it.

Concur. Radway Green actually makes two flavours of 5.56mm NATO ball with different propellants: one optimised for SA80, the other for international sales (plus UK special forces using AR-15s).
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #131 on: March 07, 2016, 09:25:43 am »
Updated video from Textron Systems on their LSAT SAW.  Video mentions TRL 7 which means the only thing left is a final design that is combat demonstrated.  Given the highly desired weight reduction I would guess money is the main impediment.


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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #132 on: March 07, 2016, 12:24:11 pm »
Money is the largest impediment but there are others. There's more to convincing the Army and Marine Corps weapons buyers that this technology is ready for prime time than just a TRL number, there's likely going to be rather exhaustive testing for a number of years. There's also still work to be done on determining what size bullets to buy. Do we apply that 40% weight reduction directly to the current 5.56mm round, or do we take advantage of that 40% weight reduction to field a larger bullet with superior ballistics? Or do we double-down on weight reduction and field an even more compact bullet like those less-than-4 grain 5.45x39 Russian rounds?

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #134 on: March 07, 2016, 11:24:36 pm »
Nothing much has happened regarding 5.56mm LSAT over the last couple of years. Instead, attention has switched to larger calibres, with 7.62mm having been tested.

At presentations last year Textron (the lead company for LSAT - now renamed CT for Cased Telescoped) reported three contracts they had been given for CT work: one to develop an LMG in 7.62mm; secondly to carry out research to determine the optimum calibre for future use; thirdly to develop a carbine in the optimum calibre. That optimum calibre turned out to be 6.5mm (surprise, surprise!). I am looking forward to learning of progress at the NDIA meeting in late April.

In the meantime, MAC LLC continues with their development of lightweight polymer/metal cartridge cases for conventional ammo. The MK323 .50 cal shows an overall weight reduction of 23% and is service-ready. The latest effort is aluminium/polymer cases for .338 Norma Magnum (presumably for GD's LWMMG) which should result in 30-35% saving. I can see this kind of development undermining the case for LSAT.
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #135 on: March 08, 2016, 03:35:45 am »
LSAT isn't just light ammo.  As the name implies (Lightweight Small Arms), the gun itself is 40-50 percent lighter.  Some of that is due to abandoning the rotating bolt and using the pivot feed mechanism seen in the video.

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #136 on: March 08, 2016, 05:14:25 am »
That's true, but in a machine gun the ammo weight is critical: for instance, an M240 weighs around the same as 400 rounds of linked ammo for it.
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #137 on: March 08, 2016, 07:04:28 am »
Nothing much has happened regarding 5.56mm LSAT over the last couple of years. Instead, attention has switched to larger calibres, with 7.62mm having been tested.

At presentations last year Textron (the lead company for LSAT - now renamed CT for Cased Telescoped) reported three contracts they had been given for CT work: one to develop an LMG in 7.62mm; secondly to carry out research to determine the optimum calibre for future use; thirdly to develop a carbine in the optimum calibre. That optimum calibre turned out to be 6.5mm (surprise, surprise!). I am looking forward to learning of progress at the NDIA meeting in late April.

In the meantime, MAC LLC continues with their development of lightweight polymer/metal cartridge cases for conventional ammo. The MK323 .50 cal shows an overall weight reduction of 23% and is service-ready. The latest effort is aluminium/polymer cases for .338 Norma Magnum (presumably for GD's LWMMG) which should result in 30-35% saving. I can see this kind of development undermining the case for LSAT.
Maybe Textron should look in to developing a CT .50 cal competitor to LWMMG as that GD capability is difficult to argue against --IMHO. Costly and time consuming admittedly.

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #138 on: March 08, 2016, 07:16:16 am »
ARES developed the .50 TAMG decades ago, and followed this up with the TARG: http://www.aresinc.net/engineering.html



12.7mm Hughes Lockless (sectioned, to show telescoped layout), .50 ARES TARG (telescoped, plastic case: this project was recently revived), .50 TROUND (for open-chamber gun), 12.7x99 (for scale)
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #139 on: March 11, 2016, 08:55:07 pm »
Polymer CT with the polymer links from the LSAT work applies double for LMG soldiers using the Ironman backpack ammo canister.

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #140 on: March 16, 2016, 03:00:10 pm »
Full ballistic helmet can Stormtroopers be far behind?

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #141 on: March 17, 2016, 06:04:07 am »
So, three questions.

1. What if a bullet strikes between the plates?  What level protection does it provide then?
2. What happens if a bullet strikes a bolt/screw head?  What happens to the bolt/screw body?
3. What does wearing this do to your situational awareness level?  How much sound does it block out?  How does it affect peripheral vision?

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #142 on: March 17, 2016, 06:34:02 am »
I think they lost me at "tactical Mohawk."

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #143 on: March 17, 2016, 07:50:03 am »
ARES developed the .50 TAMG decades ago, and followed this up with the TARG: http://www.aresinc.net/engineering.html



12.7mm Hughes Lockless (sectioned, to show telescoped layout), .50 ARES TARG (telescoped, plastic case: this project was recently revived), .50 TROUND (for open-chamber gun), 12.7x99 (for scale)
Thank you for posting Tony. Have one of your books so am familiar.

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #144 on: March 17, 2016, 08:16:35 am »

Thank you for posting Tony. Have one of your books so am familiar.

Only one? I call that shirking!  ;D
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #145 on: March 21, 2016, 07:15:38 am »
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #149 on: April 04, 2016, 02:38:08 pm »
The RUMINT running around about this isn't great, indications that Knights was discarded for reasons other than the performance of their product.

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #156 on: April 23, 2016, 08:07:46 am »
http://www.nationalinterest.org/blog/should-america-build-smaller-more-lethal-us-army-15907

The problem with smaller armies is that it increasingly looks like inviting defeat in detail, at the very least.
The sole imperative of a government, once instituted, is to survive.

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #158 on: April 26, 2016, 07:45:09 am »
http://www.army.mil/article/166583

Army lasers and railguns
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #165 on: May 13, 2016, 08:42:05 am »
Yeah it's just a light bulb but it is actually a useful development.


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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #166 on: May 13, 2016, 10:24:22 am »

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #168 on: May 14, 2016, 09:06:29 am »
http://www.janes.com/article/60331/us-army-approves-carl-gustaf-m3-maaws-for-general-use

Any idea of the scale of issue.  They mention it being organic to the platoon; only one per, do we think?

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #171 on: May 24, 2016, 07:41:05 am »
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #175 on: May 25, 2016, 07:48:42 am »
http://www.janes.com/article/60331/us-army-approves-carl-gustaf-m3-maaws-for-general-use

Any idea of the scale of issue.  They mention it being organic to the platoon; only one per, do we think?
http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a20998/m3-carl-gustav/

Quote
Now, Infantry Brigade Combat Teams in the U.S. Army and National Guard will receive these weapons at a rate of 27 per brigade, or one per platoon of 40 soldiers
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #183 on: July 20, 2016, 05:40:55 pm »
Getting closer to my dream. Two of these mounted.....

http://www.recoilweb.com/empty-shell-defense-xm556-microgun-105105.html

.........on each arm of this.

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #184 on: July 21, 2016, 06:55:07 am »
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Offline Kadija_Man

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #185 on: July 21, 2016, 08:05:08 pm »
Upgraded firepower on lighter vehicles including Apache gun on a light recon vehicle  :o

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/07/20/army-maneuver-leaders-tout-need-for-more-lethal-recon-vehicles.html?ESRC=todayinmilsm

Depends on the role of Reconnaissance vehicles are.  Are they they to carry our Recce or are they there to fight?  If it is the former, light weapons to defend themselves is all that is required.  If the latter, what is the difference between their vehicles and the standard infantry/armoured vehicles?   None, I would suggest nor is there much difference in how they are employed.

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #187 on: July 23, 2016, 04:39:51 pm »
I worried about the device that increases the cognitive process.  Don't let them use that BEFORE they sign up for the infantry.
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #188 on: August 02, 2016, 11:08:58 pm »


Sandia Labs RAZAR Rapid Adaptive Zoom for AR's
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #189 on: August 03, 2016, 07:28:10 am »
I worried about the device that increases the cognitive process.  Don't let them use that BEFORE they sign up for the infantry.

 ;D
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #190 on: August 06, 2016, 12:38:58 pm »
https://www.facebook.com/marines/videos/10153563351485194/

I'd have an "Urban Street Sweeper" edition with a mini-gun.  :o
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #193 on: August 16, 2016, 12:54:16 am »
The direct/area effect weapon sounds a lot like the Denel project to create a belt-fed weapon using the 20mm PAW ammo, which is basically standard 20mm cannon projectiles in a short, light, straight-walled case.  Of course, the U.S. Military would never adopt such a simple, straightforward solution.

http://www.janes.com/article/62351/denel-making-progress-on-fully-automatic-20x42mm-support-weapon

The lightweight .50 cal seems like déjà vu all over again to me.  Didn't GD already build a LW50MG, the XM806?
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #194 on: August 25, 2016, 03:10:04 pm »
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #201 on: September 21, 2016, 07:24:57 am »
http://www.nextbigfuture.com/2016/09/darpa-moving-to-second-phase-of-squad-x.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogspot%2Fadvancednano+%28nextbigfuture%29&utm_content=FaceBook

Dismount survival is based on stealth. DARPA's UGV/UAV collocation language and depiction of short range, low altitude, noisy quad rotor are dead giveways. Emphasis on dead.

Even UGVs need enough range to disassociate w/ squad locations. Relays have been built tested to accomplish as much.

If real $ is to be spent on squads they should reach beyond 1k.
jokish

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« Last Edit: September 29, 2016, 09:29:39 pm by bobbymike »
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #205 on: September 30, 2016, 02:07:59 am »
On that last one, I really don't understand the logic of the caliber choice:  "The 123 grain 6.5mm has a muzzle velocity of about 3,000 feet per second, Cole said."  That's 2,458 ft-lb so almost identical to 7.62x51mm NATO (147 gr M80 FMJ    X 2,733 fps = 2,437 ft-lb).  What's he point of a "carbine" in a full-power rifle cartridge in this day and age?  Are going back to the M-14 and FN FAL?  Wasn't the whole point of the move to assault rifles (intermediate calibers) to get away from this?
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #207 on: September 30, 2016, 04:25:08 pm »
On that last one, I really don't understand the logic of the caliber choice:  "The 123 grain 6.5mm has a muzzle velocity of about 3,000 feet per second, Cole said."  That's 2,458 ft-lb so almost identical to 7.62x51mm NATO (147 gr M80 FMJ    X 2,733 fps = 2,437 ft-lb).  What's he point of a "carbine" in a full-power rifle cartridge in this day and age?  Are going back to the M-14 and FN FAL?  Wasn't the whole point of the move to assault rifles (intermediate calibers) to get away from this?

It's about retained energy downrange. (from Ms. Kori Phillips' Armaments 2016 preso which is attached)




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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #208 on: September 30, 2016, 11:35:44 pm »
Thanks, marauder2048, and I can buy the rationale for an LMG or GPMG application, but. nobody is hitting anything with a carbine at 1200m, even 600m would be rare and exceptional.
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #209 on: October 01, 2016, 10:30:19 am »
This lightweight ammunition study/Development is still very much a work in progress, they're running down the various options. A lightweight carbine that sacrifices control/accuracy at full auto for long-range engagement ability normally only found on heavier sniper/DMR rifles may not be worth it in the end, but I have no problem with them building a few and finding out how it goes.

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #210 on: October 01, 2016, 08:39:49 pm »
Thanks, marauder2048, and I can buy the rationale for an LMG or GPMG application, but. nobody is hitting anything with a carbine at 1200m, even 600m would be rare and exceptional.

It harks back to the US fascination with and need to prove they are the descendants of the "Wild mountain men" of days of yore.  Rather than using the weapons that should be used at such ranges (ie SFMG/GMG/Light Mortars/Medium Mortars/Artillery, the infantry feels that their weapon which was never designed to be fired at such ranges should be able to hit at those ranges.  The M4 was designed for 100-200metres.  The M16 300metres.  The M14, 600metres, approximately.   What they need, if they want to engage in long-range firefights is a sniper rifle for every soldier (and the training required to use it appropriately).

I find it interesting that only the US Army reports "problems" with a short barrelled M4 whereas all other Western armies with longer barrelled or bullpup weapons doesn't (and perhaps they use the appropriate weapon?). 

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #211 on: October 01, 2016, 11:08:26 pm »
Thanks, marauder2048, and I can buy the rationale for an LMG or GPMG application, but. nobody is hitting anything with a carbine at 1200m, even 600m would be rare and exceptional.

It harks back to the US fascination with and need to prove they are the descendants of the "Wild mountain men" of days of yore.  Rather than using the weapons that should be used at such ranges (ie SFMG/GMG/Light Mortars/Medium Mortars/Artillery, the infantry feels that their weapon which was never designed to be fired at such ranges should be able to hit at those ranges.  The M4 was designed for 100-200metres.  The M16 300metres.  The M14, 600metres, approximately.   What they need, if they want to engage in long-range firefights is a sniper rifle for every soldier (and the training required to use it appropriately).

I find it interesting that only the US Army reports "problems" with a short barrelled M4 whereas all other Western armies with longer barrelled or bullpup weapons doesn't (and perhaps they use the appropriate weapon?).
US next generation Mountain Man rifle?
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #212 on: October 02, 2016, 12:00:41 am »
Thanks, marauder2048, and I can buy the rationale for an LMG or GPMG application, but. nobody is hitting anything with a carbine at 1200m, even 600m would be rare and exceptional.

It harks back to the US fascination with and need to prove they are the descendants of the "Wild mountain men" of days of yore.  Rather than using the weapons that should be used at such ranges (ie SFMG/GMG/Light Mortars/Medium Mortars/Artillery, the infantry feels that their weapon which was never designed to be fired at such ranges should be able to hit at those ranges.  The M4 was designed for 100-200metres.  The M16 300metres.  The M14, 600metres, approximately.   What they need, if they want to engage in long-range firefights is a sniper rifle for every soldier (and the training required to use it appropriately).

I find it interesting that only the US Army reports "problems" with a short barrelled M4 whereas all other Western armies with longer barrelled or bullpup weapons doesn't (and perhaps they use the appropriate weapon?).
US next generation Mountain Man rifle?

Who knows.  Perhaps this is a better image?


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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #214 on: October 02, 2016, 11:54:59 am »
Thanks, marauder2048, and I can buy the rationale for an LMG or GPMG application, but. nobody is hitting anything with a carbine at 1200m, even 600m would be rare and exceptional.

It harks back to the US fascination with and need to prove they are the descendants of the "Wild mountain men" of days of yore.  Rather than using the weapons that should be used at such ranges (ie SFMG/GMG/Light Mortars/Medium Mortars/Artillery, the infantry feels that their weapon which was never designed to be fired at such ranges should be able to hit at those ranges.  The M4 was designed for 100-200metres. 

SFMG/GMG carriers tend to be priority targets for enemy snipers. And while I'm hopeful that
guidance kits and scalable effects fills for mortars will enable a reduction in minimum
and danger close ranges I tend to think that the infantry half-mile+ will still be
decided by small arms.

The M4 was designed to hit targets out to 500m with the M855; with the new M855A1 round
and the proliferation of BDC optics operators are more regularly hitting out to those
ranges and beyond.

As sights continue to improve it's worth looking at the lethality and range improvements that can
be achieved within the package (weight, volume, length etc) constraints of a carbine.

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #215 on: October 02, 2016, 07:52:07 pm »
SFMG/GMG carriers tend to be priority targets for enemy snipers. And while I'm hopeful that
guidance kits and scalable effects fills for mortars will enable a reduction in minimum
and danger close ranges I tend to think that the infantry half-mile+ will still be
decided by small arms.

"half-mile"?   You mean 800 metres?  No service rifle fielded today is designed to hit anything at that range.  600 metres is for "area fire" only.

Quote
The M4 was designed to hit targets out to 500m with the M855; with the new M855A1 round
and the proliferation of BDC optics operators are more regularly hitting out to those
ranges and beyond.

With a 13 inch barrel?  I am surprised.   I have never understood the fascination for small barrel lengths on a service carbine/rifle.   The L85 has a 646 mm (25.4 in) barrel.  The Steyr F88 has a 508 mm (20.0 in) barrel.  The bullpup is a very neat way of getting a longer barrel into a short weapon but the US Army and Americans in general seem to dislike the concept for some unfathomable reason.  I'm reminded of the early 1960s claims about how "unnatural" a pistol grip was compared to a stock grip on the M14..

Quote
As sights continue to improve it's worth looking at the lethality and range improvements that can
be achieved within the package (weight, volume, length etc) constraints of a carbine.

Why a carbine, which is shorter and less powerful by design compared to a rifle?

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #216 on: October 02, 2016, 08:59:14 pm »

"half-mile"?   You mean 800 metres?  No service rifle fielded today is designed to hit anything at that range.

That's the point of the current effort.


The bullpup is a very neat way of getting a longer barrel into a short weapon but the US Army and Americans in general seem to dislike the concept for some unfathomable reason. 

Guess you'd find the recent UK Royal Marines, French and New Zealand rifle selections unfathomable as well.



Why a carbine, which is shorter and less powerful by design compared to a rifle?

Because everyone can carry one.

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #217 on: October 02, 2016, 09:47:01 pm »

"half-mile"?   You mean 800 metres?  No service rifle fielded today is designed to hit anything at that range.

That's the point of the current effort.

And so, instead of using combined arms tactics, you end up equipping with a non-standard calibre, sub-standard barrel length weapon...

Quote
The bullpup is a very neat way of getting a longer barrel into a short weapon but the US Army and Americans in general seem to dislike the concept for some unfathomable reason. 

Guess you'd find the recent UK Royal Marines, French and New Zealand rifle selections unfathomable as well.

Nope.  Economy,  The RM, French and New Zealand selections weren't based purely on capability...

Quote
Why a carbine, which is shorter and less powerful by design compared to a rifle?

Because everyone can carry one.

Ah, you mean you're suiting your service weapon to 50% of your population?

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #218 on: October 02, 2016, 10:26:47 pm »
And so, instead of using combined arms tactics, you end up equipping with a non-standard calibre, sub-standard barrel length weapon...

Who says it will be a non-standard calibre? Who says you abandon combined arms? These are complete non-sequiturs. 

The prototype carbine has a barrel length in between the M4 and the M16A4.

Nope.  Economy,  The RM, French and New Zealand selections weren't based purely on capability...

You mean like virtually every other military acquisition program ever?


Ah, you mean you're suiting your service weapon to 50% of your population?

And all of the crewmen,  auxiliaries, spotters and crew served weapons operators etc. that
can't physically carry something heavier and bulkier. 

At the end of the day, a higher volume of fire on target is known to produce good things.

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #219 on: October 03, 2016, 07:01:24 am »
And so, instead of using combined arms tactics, you end up equipping with a non-standard calibre, sub-standard barrel length weapon...

Who says it will be a non-standard calibre? Who says you abandon combined arms? These are complete non-sequiturs.

So, you're suggesting that a 200metre extension on the 5.56x45mm calibre is possible? 

Quote
The prototype carbine has a barrel length in between the M4 and the M16A4.

Ah, an M4 rifle or an M4 carbine?

Quote
Nope.  Economy,  The RM, French and New Zealand selections weren't based purely on capability...

You mean like virtually every other military acquisition program ever?

Touche'!  Economy should be only a factor, not the determining factor in acquisition.  Otherwise you end up with a sub-standard weapon which results in soldiers being killed.

Quote
Ah, you mean you're suiting your service weapon to 50% of your population?

And all of the crewmen,  auxiliaries, spotters and crew served weapons operators etc. that
can't physically carry something heavier and bulkier. 

Then procure a carbine for those that need it and a rifle for those that don't.   Making one weapon fit all means some will have a weapon with a far shorter barrel and less accuracy when they need it.

Quote
At the end of the day, a higher volume of fire on target is known to produce good things.

And it results in a far larger logistics tail which is required to provide that ammunition.  It just doesn't appear out of thin air, you realise? 

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #221 on: October 04, 2016, 06:45:29 pm »


So, you're suggesting that a 200metre extension on the 5.56x45mm calibre is possible? 

I'm suggesting that CT rounds could become standard calibre. Alternately, polymer but not case-telescoped rounds could supplant brass.


Ah, an M4 rifle or an M4 carbine?


Not sure I follow. There is no M4 rifle. The prototype 6.5mm Carbine has a 16 inch barrel.


Touche'!  Economy should be only a factor, not the determining factor in acquisition.  Otherwise you end up with a sub-standard weapon which results in soldiers being killed.

That might be a slight wrinkle for the CT effort; it's unclear who owns the CT, carbine and LMG designs.

Then procure a carbine for those that need it and a rifle for those that don't.   Making one weapon fit all means some will have a weapon with a far shorter barrel and less accuracy when they need it.

Given the typical ratio of front-line to non front-line troops, those who need a carbine greatly outnumber those who don't. And the front-line troops will be carrying more things like XM25.


And it results in a far larger logistics tail which is required to provide that ammunition.  It just doesn't appear out of thin air, you realise?

CT rounds make the logistics tail more managable given the reduced volume and weight for the same loadout.

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #222 on: October 04, 2016, 08:39:20 pm »


So, you're suggesting that a 200metre extension on the 5.56x45mm calibre is possible? 

I'm suggesting that CT rounds could become standard calibre. Alternately, polymer but not case-telescoped rounds could supplant brass.

So, a complete change over then in your opinion?

What does that do to the installed base of 5.56x45mm calibre weapons, outside of the US?  You do realise that the US is a part of various treaty organisations which it often deploys as a part of?

Quote
Ah, an M4 rifle or an M4 carbine?


Not sure I follow. There is no M4 rifle. The prototype 6.5mm Carbine has a 16 inch barrel.

There are different M4 barrel lengths.  I have always assumed a "carbine" was a rifle with a shorter barrel and butt, whereas it seems the definition has changed in the US.   A 16 inch (406mm) barrel is still shorter than an L85 or Steyr F88 barrel.

Quote
Touche'!  Economy should be only a factor, not the determining factor in acquisition.  Otherwise you end up with a sub-standard weapon which results in soldiers being killed.

That might be a slight wrinkle for the CT effort; it's unclear who owns the CT, carbine and LMG designs.

Design ownership is immaterial when governments are doing the talking.

Quote
Then procure a carbine for those that need it and a rifle for those that don't.   Making one weapon fit all means some will have a weapon with a far shorter barrel and less accuracy when they need it.

Given the typical ratio of front-line to non front-line troops, those who need a carbine greatly outnumber those who don't. And the front-line troops will be carrying more things like XM25.

Obviously all the US Army's "front-line troops" (not that there is anything resembling a "line" in modern warfare) would it seems all be built like Gorillas, if they are all t carrying "things like the XM25").    Those who need a "carbine" versus those who require a "rifle" is a great deal less than you might believe.

Quote
And it results in a far larger logistics tail which is required to provide that ammunition.  It just doesn't appear out of thin air, you realise?

CT rounds make the logistics tail more managable given the reduced volume and weight for the same loadout.

The number of rounds fired would remain the same.   Your logistics burden would be reduced perhaps by 10%, by weight and volume compared to the non-use of CT rounds.

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #223 on: October 05, 2016, 03:57:34 pm »

So, a complete change over then in your opinion?

What does that do to the installed base of 5.56x45mm calibre weapons, outside of the US?  You do realise that the US is a part of various treaty organisations which it often deploys as a part of?

The same thing that happened when the installed base of 5.56x45mm calibre weapons outside of the US was shown to be incompatible with the M855A1. T


There are different M4 barrel lengths.  I have always assumed a "carbine" was a rifle with a shorter barrel and butt, whereas it seems the definition has changed in the US.   A 16 inch (406mm) barrel is still shorter than an L85 or Steyr F88 barrel.

I believe there is only one type qualified M4 barrel length. The L85 and F88 are not long for this world. For the former, the carbine version's barrel length is pretty close in to the prototype CT carbine.


Design ownership is immaterial when governments are doing the talking.

Not even remotely true for the US. If the government doesn't own the TDPs and MDPs it either has to purchase them or procure the design the OEM or license production. 
Things are clearer post 2011 in terms of data rights ownership.  But the CT effort predates this legislative change.


Obviously all the US Army's "front-line troops" (not that there is anything resembling a "line" in modern warfare) would it seems all be built like Gorillas, if they are all t carrying "things like the XM25").    Those who need a "carbine" versus those who require a "rifle" is a great deal less than you might believe.

I don't think the plural of 'anecdote' is 'data.'

The number of rounds fired would remain the same.   Your logistics burden would be reduced perhaps by 10%, by weight and volume compared to the non-use of CT rounds.

Given the improved terminal effects at longer ranges I'm not sure your premise is valid and your estimate for reduced logistics burden does not square with the reported data.


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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #233 on: November 06, 2016, 07:33:03 pm »
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/the-us-army-testing-devastating-new-weapon-super-bazooka-18311

So it is the old Carl Gustaf.  Hardly worthy of the article title...

Nor the contents.  I first fired a L35a1 Carl Gustav in 1978.   The weapon is an excellent recoilless rifle, not a rocket launcher.   It also has a range in excess of 1,000 metres.

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #237 on: November 23, 2016, 06:03:07 pm »
Quote
The US and China are racing to create superior super soldiers SOFREP Original Content

By Jack Murphy 11.23.2016#Expert Analysis Email Share Tweet

Three years ago, SOFREP reported that the People’s Republic of China was conducting gene-doping experiments on their athletes and soldiers. Although it wasn’t mentioned, around this time JSOC was also conducting an experiment with gene doping that made operators stronger. Long frustrated by American laws and medical ethics, JSOC was able to find an exemption by citing operational needs. Most likely this was justified by pointing toward the similar experiments the Chinese have been doing for decades. Our sources indicated that the JSOC program was successful, more than doubling the strength of the few soldiers gene doping was tried on. The only way to test for proof of gene doping is via a muscle biopsy—not something that many guys would be keen to try.  :-\

Today, the genetic arms race between China and the United States is becoming more clear to the public. Over the last few years the Chinese have been getting more aggressive. As they increase their power base, the Chinese are taking additional steps toward becoming an eventual global hegemon. We can see this in developments of their military technology, assertiveness in the South China Sea, military deployments to Africa, and a more forward-leaning approach to espionage. “No more grain of sand shit,” a former CIA officer recently told me in regards to Chinese espionage. The MSS and other Chinese intelligence services have become emboldened and more aggressive.

Speaking about new gene-editing technology being used by Chinese doctors to fight cancer, Professor Carl June said, “I think this is going to trigger ‘Sputnik 2.0’, a biomedical duel on progress between China and the United States, which is important since competition usually improves the end product.” CRISPR gene-editing technology is used to remove cells that are exploited by cancer, then these cells are cultured and injected back into the patient. A Sputnik-style space race turned genetics race could be a wonderful project for all of humanity when it comes to fighting cancer.

When it comes to military and economic strength, the arms race for nuclear weapons may be a more apt comparison than space exploration. With the People’s Republic of China engaged in a nation-wide eugenics project that sees the Han as the master race, the Chinese government’s domination of the genetics field, along with economics and military technology, would lead to a new global order that is somewhat less than democratic.

https://sofrep.com/68314/the-us-and-china-are-racing-to-create-superior-super-soldiers/

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #243 on: December 19, 2016, 03:03:15 am »

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #244 on: December 19, 2016, 04:02:48 am »
Obviously this thread is for posting adverts

« Last Edit: December 19, 2016, 04:22:46 am by asiscan »

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #245 on: December 19, 2016, 04:23:37 am »
Obviously this thread is for posting cg adverts,,


You watched this and actually thought it was a CGI promotion for a future product?

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #246 on: December 19, 2016, 04:34:23 am »
No I watched it. But does it actually do what is claimed? I'm not being harsh but a degree of scepticism is required when VR and to quote the video "gaming technology" is concerned. Its a good training simulator, but then again my 4 yr old boy is hot on Mario Kart but he don't drive..  :D

« Last Edit: December 19, 2016, 05:30:40 am by asiscan »

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #247 on: December 19, 2016, 08:10:39 am »
Cubic Corporation is the market leader in training services (ACMI pods for example).  The whole training industry is heading down this path.




One from Rockwell Collins.


And one from Lockheed.

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #248 on: December 30, 2016, 03:35:12 pm »
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #252 on: January 12, 2017, 07:04:51 pm »
http://defense-update.com/20170112_rs556.html

Steyr assault rifle for Germany
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #254 on: January 15, 2017, 12:00:40 am »
An atlas robot with one of these on each arm and a few thousand rounds of ammo.

http://www.recoilweb.com/empty-shell-defense-xm556-microgun-105105.html
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Offline bobbymike

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Offline bobbymike

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #266 on: March 03, 2017, 01:08:20 am »
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Offline Kadija_Man

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #267 on: March 03, 2017, 07:54:44 pm »
https://www.army.mil/article/183491/

Laser 120mm mortar

The Swedes developed such a round over 20 years ago... Strix IIRC.

Offline marauder2048

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #268 on: March 04, 2017, 12:03:34 am »
https://www.army.mil/article/183491/

Laser 120mm mortar

The Swedes developed such a round over 20 years ago... Strix IIRC.

About the only thing they have in common is that they are both 120mm guided mortars.

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #270 on: April 01, 2017, 09:38:59 pm »
https://www.facebook.com/vortexoptics/videos/10155106311160758/

Really cool technology but could be pretty macabre.
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #271 on: April 01, 2017, 10:23:06 pm »
https://www.facebook.com/vortexoptics/videos/10155106311160758/

Really cool technology but could be pretty macabre.

Still can't tell if this is an April Fool's joke.  Why isn't the image spinning as the bullet rotates?  I'm assuming the price of "ninety nine ninety nine for a box of 10" means $10 per bullet. 


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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #272 on: April 02, 2017, 02:37:07 am »
Someone at their Youtube channel commented that this gives new meaning to "taking a selfie".

The companies appear legit and the camera seems to be floated in liquid as the bullet spins.  Still not positive it isn't a joke but I suppose it's possible.

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #273 on: April 02, 2017, 04:28:31 am »
Based on the performance in the video, I would say it's an April fool by the company itself.

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #277 on: April 09, 2017, 01:11:18 am »
http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a25974/now-its-the-army-that-wants-a-new-rifle/

Interesting that it doesn't mention the possibility of adopting a Bullpup design which would solve most of the problems concerning weight and balance of a longer barrelled weapon.   Never understood why the US military has been so anti-Bullpup weapons.   I suspect it's rather like their previous opposition to pistol grips and semi versus fully-automatic firearms...

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #278 on: April 09, 2017, 08:55:55 am »
http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a25974/now-its-the-army-that-wants-a-new-rifle/

Interesting that it doesn't mention the possibility of adopting a Bullpup design which would solve most of the problems concerning weight and balance of a longer barrelled weapon.   Never understood why the US military has been so anti-Bullpup weapons.   I suspect it's rather like their previous opposition to pistol grips and semi versus fully-automatic firearms...
Some disliked the Steyr AUG because heat quickly accumulated near the receiver during rapid fire and was felt by the firers on their cheek.

Offline Kadija_Man

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #279 on: April 09, 2017, 11:10:02 pm »
http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a25974/now-its-the-army-that-wants-a-new-rifle/

Interesting that it doesn't mention the possibility of adopting a Bullpup design which would solve most of the problems concerning weight and balance of a longer barrelled weapon.   Never understood why the US military has been so anti-Bullpup weapons.   I suspect it's rather like their previous opposition to pistol grips and semi versus fully-automatic firearms...
Some disliked the Steyr AUG because heat quickly accumulated near the receiver during rapid fire and was felt by the firers on their cheek.

Interesting.  I've never had that problem when I fired the Steyr F88 when it was first adopted by the Australian Army.  I assume they were firing fully automatic, multiple magazines rather than exercising proper fire discipline?  Many of the complaints against the Steyr were manufactured by those who didn't like the idea of a bullpup rifle.


Offline bobbymike

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #280 on: April 10, 2017, 12:55:02 pm »
http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a25974/now-its-the-army-that-wants-a-new-rifle/

Interesting that it doesn't mention the possibility of adopting a Bullpup design which would solve most of the problems concerning weight and balance of a longer barrelled weapon.   Never understood why the US military has been so anti-Bullpup weapons.   I suspect it's rather like their previous opposition to pistol grips and semi versus fully-automatic firearms...
Some disliked the Steyr AUG because heat quickly accumulated near the receiver during rapid fire and was felt by the firers on their cheek.

Interesting.  I've never had that problem when I fired the Steyr F88 when it was first adopted by the Australian Army.  I assume they were firing fully automatic, multiple magazines rather than exercising proper fire discipline?  Many of the complaints against the Steyr were manufactured by those who didn't like the idea of a bullpup rifle.
Logically from the first post it was being tested by a nation that didn't adopt the Steyr therefore I assume it was a test parameter not 'poor fire discipline' where the heat build up was noticed?

http://taskandpurpose.com/socom-multi-caliber-sniper-rifle/
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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #281 on: April 10, 2017, 06:06:12 pm »
Someone at their Youtube channel commented that this gives new meaning to "taking a selfie".

The companies appear legit and the camera seems to be floated in liquid as the bullet spins.  Still not positive it isn't a joke but I suppose it's possible.

Its obviously an April's Fool joke.

Can you imagine the g-forces the camera experiences, and that tiny camera weighting only a few grains...capturing images as clear as that...would be a massive technological innovation in itself even if not put on a bullet. And a bullet would cost about $2,000. Its obvious its fake by the time it takes the bullet to fly. In real life it would be a frame or two in real time.

Offline Kadija_Man

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #282 on: April 10, 2017, 09:57:33 pm »
http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a25974/now-its-the-army-that-wants-a-new-rifle/

Interesting that it doesn't mention the possibility of adopting a Bullpup design which would solve most of the problems concerning weight and balance of a longer barrelled weapon.   Never understood why the US military has been so anti-Bullpup weapons.   I suspect it's rather like their previous opposition to pistol grips and semi versus fully-automatic firearms...
Some disliked the Steyr AUG because heat quickly accumulated near the receiver during rapid fire and was felt by the firers on their cheek.

Interesting.  I've never had that problem when I fired the Steyr F88 when it was first adopted by the Australian Army.  I assume they were firing fully automatic, multiple magazines rather than exercising proper fire discipline?  Many of the complaints against the Steyr were manufactured by those who didn't like the idea of a bullpup rifle.
Logically from the first post it was being tested by a nation that didn't adopt the Steyr therefore I assume it was a test parameter not 'poor fire discipline' where the heat build up was noticed?

http://taskandpurpose.com/socom-multi-caliber-sniper-rifle/

Appears to require "sign up" to view that page.

The Steyr had been adopted by the Australian Army by the time I got to fire it.  However, no "heat build up" was noticeable because we practised fire discipline and only fired two to three 30 round magazines when ordered to.   I would assume that the testers who tested the rifle before it's adoption would have noticed "excessive heat build up" during their trials and that would have told against it's adoption.   Having read the trials report, there is no notation of "excessive heat build up".

After the Australian Army adoption of the Steyr there were claims that because it was a "plastic rifle" it was prone to "melting".   As that only occurred if over ~500 rounds were fired continuously, I don't think that is much of a problem.  Fire discipline prevents soldiers from firing excessive numbers of rounds continuously in favour of tightly controlled group fire.

Offline bobbymike

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #283 on: April 10, 2017, 11:41:23 pm »
http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a25974/now-its-the-army-that-wants-a-new-rifle/

Interesting that it doesn't mention the possibility of adopting a Bullpup design which would solve most of the problems concerning weight and balance of a longer barrelled weapon.   Never understood why the US military has been so anti-Bullpup weapons.   I suspect it's rather like their previous opposition to pistol grips and semi versus fully-automatic firearms...
Some disliked the Steyr AUG because heat quickly accumulated near the receiver during rapid fire and was felt by the firers on their cheek.

Interesting.  I've never had that problem when I fired the Steyr F88 when it was first adopted by the Australian Army.  I assume they were firing fully automatic, multiple magazines rather than exercising proper fire discipline?  Many of the complaints against the Steyr were manufactured by those who didn't like the idea of a bullpup rifle.
Logically from the first post it was being tested by a nation that didn't adopt the Steyr therefore I assume it was a test parameter not 'poor fire discipline' where the heat build up was noticed?

http://taskandpurpose.com/socom-multi-caliber-sniper-rifle/

Appears to require "sign up" to view that page.

The Steyr had been adopted by the Australian Army by the time I got to fire it.  However, no "heat build up" was noticeable because we practised fire discipline and only fired two to three 30 round magazines when ordered to.   I would assume that the testers who tested the rifle before it's adoption would have noticed "excessive heat build up" during their trials and that would have told against it's adoption.   Having read the trials report, there is no notation of "excessive heat build up".

After the Australian Army adoption of the Steyr there were claims that because it was a "plastic rifle" it was prone to "melting".   As that only occurred if over ~500 rounds were fired continuously, I don't think that is much of a problem.  Fire discipline prevents soldiers from firing excessive numbers of rounds continuously in favour of tightly controlled group fire.
I think you're missing the point of my post. What I am saying is that there might well have been A TEST parameter of something like "ten magazines full auto" that had NOTHING to do with fire discipline but was a test point for the rifle.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2017, 12:07:16 am by bobbymike »
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Offline Kadija_Man

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #284 on: April 11, 2017, 06:45:03 pm »
I think you're missing the point of my post. What I am saying is that there might well have been A TEST parameter of something like "ten magazines full auto" that had NOTHING to do with fire discipline but was a test point for the rifle.

Ah, thank you, that is much clearer.  So their reaction could be to an artificial situation which will never practically occur when using the firearm?  So why bother with that test?  Appears pointless to me, except as a means of potentially damaging the rifle.   Sure, it shows the upper limit of it's use but it would not be a genuine concern to preventing it's adoption.   Reminds me of the claims about the Steyr foregrip "melting" when fired on fully automatic downunder.    It reached the newspapers just after it's adoption until it was pointed out that you'd need to fire an excessive number of rounds to reach that point and in reality, you'd never get there because no soldier could carry that number.

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #285 on: April 15, 2017, 06:12:57 pm »
It certainly seems like a heavy barrel variant of an existing bullpup (AUG, F2000, Tavor, etc.) in 6.5 Grendel or a similar intermediate (between 5.56 and 7.62 NATO) caliber would be a great off-the-shelf solution for U.S. forces looking for more range in a compact package.

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Offline Kadija_Man

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #286 on: April 15, 2017, 09:20:10 pm »
It certainly seems like a heavy barrel variant of an existing bullpup (AUG, F2000, Tavor, etc.) in 6.5 Grendel or a similar intermediate (between 5.56 and 7.62 NATO) caliber would be a great off-the-shelf solution for U.S. forces looking for more range in a compact package.

Exactly.  However it doesn't seem to be countenanced by that article.   Instead, they seek to continue with the unwieldy, unbalanced "conventional" firearm.

Offline marauder2048

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #287 on: April 17, 2017, 03:13:17 pm »
It certainly seems like a heavy barrel variant of an existing bullpup (AUG, F2000, Tavor, etc.) in 6.5 Grendel or a similar intermediate (between 5.56 and 7.62 NATO) caliber would be a great off-the-shelf solution for U.S. forces looking for more range in a compact package.

Exactly.  However it doesn't seem to be countenanced by that article.   Instead, they seek to continue with the unwieldy, unbalanced "conventional" firearm.

"off-the-shelf solution"

There's no bullpup in series production chambered for 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SPC.
There's all of *one*  bullpup in series production for the actually required 7.62 NATO caliber. It's had a tortured development/breakin and has a been a dud with (para) military and LEO.

Offline bobbymike

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Offline bobbymike

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Offline Kadija_Man

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #290 on: April 18, 2017, 07:51:56 pm »
It certainly seems like a heavy barrel variant of an existing bullpup (AUG, F2000, Tavor, etc.) in 6.5 Grendel or a similar intermediate (between 5.56 and 7.62 NATO) caliber would be a great off-the-shelf solution for U.S. forces looking for more range in a compact package.

Exactly.  However it doesn't seem to be countenanced by that article.   Instead, they seek to continue with the unwieldy, unbalanced "conventional" firearm.

"off-the-shelf solution"

There's no bullpup in series production chambered for 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SPC.
There's all of *one*  bullpup in series production for the actually required 7.62 NATO caliber. It's had a tortured development/breakin and has a been a dud with (para) military and LEO.

Rifles can be adapted to fire virtually any calibre round.   "off the shelf" refers to little or no development time.  You offer sufficient money, the developers will develop.

Offline marauder2048

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #291 on: April 18, 2017, 10:19:07 pm »
Rifles can be adapted to fire virtually any calibre round.   "off the shelf" refers to little or no development time.  You offer sufficient money, the developers will develop.

Steyr struggled for years to adapt the Aug for .22 LR and ultimately failed despite abundant demand.

Of course, it's not unique to bullpups. Even getting enhanced performance rounds in the same caliber
adapted to existing, conventional platforms has been a challenge.

The reality is that "off the shelf" refers to extensive reliability and lethality data as well.

Just for reference, there's been sustained and abundant demand/money for 7.62 autos for years now with
multiple competitions across multiple services in multiple countries and there is all of one
decidedly mediocre 7.62 bullpup to show for it.


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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #292 on: April 19, 2017, 12:43:07 am »
Is there?

Kel-Tec RFB


NC/SC Norinco SKS Bullpup


CIA AK BULLPUP


RSS Bullpup


SCAR 17 Bullpup


There are quite a few more.

Of course, it also depends on which 7.62mm you're talking about.  There are three rounds, afterall in general use...

Offline marauder2048

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #293 on: April 19, 2017, 02:00:29 am »
Is there?



As I said before, there's one bullpup chambered for 7.62 NATO (the threshold caliber in the OP)
in series production which you have correctly identified as the Kel-Tec RFB.
And as I stated before, the RFB has struggled with reliability issues and is very far from being a suitable battle rifle.

Offline Kadija_Man

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #294 on: April 20, 2017, 01:26:25 am »
Is there?



As I said before, there's one bullpup chambered for 7.62 NATO (the threshold caliber in the OP)
in series production which you have correctly identified as the Kel-Tec RFB.
And as I stated before, the RFB has struggled with reliability issues and is very far from being a suitable battle rifle.

A "battle rifle"?  A very American term.  "Assault Rifle" is what a longarm capable of selective fire is generally called.  You simply said, "7.62".   There are three different rounds in that calibre in general usage - 7.62x51mm, 7.62x39mm and 7.62x54mm.   The Kel-Tec RFB has reliability problems?  Really?  According to whom?   When did the military carry tests on that rifle?   Or are we discussing what the gun nuts promulgate?

I wonder why 7.62x51mm rifles have reliability problems when in bullpup configuration, whereas 5.56x45mm service rifles generally don't.   

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #295 on: April 22, 2017, 05:41:08 am »
A "battle rifle"?  A very American term.  "Assault Rifle" is what a longarm capable of selective fire is generally called.

That is incorrect.  A self-loading long arm capable of fully automatic fire can be one of several categories traditionally defined by the cartridge used:

Pistol cartridge = submachine gun (selective fire or full auto only)
Intermediate cartridge = assault rifle (selective fire)
Rifle cartridge = battle rifle (selective fire or semi auto only) (also historically automatic rifle)
Rifle cartridge & intended for sustained fire = light machine gun (selective fire or full auto only)

There are some guns that defy those definitions, like calling the 5.56mm FN Minimi/SAW an LMG or the use of the term automatic rifle for heavy barreled assault rifles like the new 5.56mm USMC M27, but they are the exception and generally indicate the intended use trumping the traditional caliber definitions.

There is also a tendency in popular media to call any military style, high capacity weapon an assault rifle regardless of caliber or the ability to deliver full auto fire, which is just as wrong as calling all handguns revolvers.
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Offline Kadija_Man

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #296 on: April 22, 2017, 08:05:02 am »
A "battle rifle"?  A very American term.  "Assault Rifle" is what a longarm capable of selective fire is generally called.

That is incorrect.  A self-loading long arm capable of fully automatic fire can be one of several categories traditionally defined by the cartridge used:

Pistol cartridge = submachine gun (selective fire or full auto only)
Intermediate cartridge = assault rifle (selective fire)
Rifle cartridge = battle rifle (selective fire or semi auto only) (also historically automatic rifle)
Rifle cartridge & intended for sustained fire = light machine gun (selective fire or full auto only)

There are some guns that defy those definitions, like calling the 5.56mm FN Minimi/SAW an LMG or the use of the term automatic rifle for heavy barreled assault rifles like the new 5.56mm USMC M27, but they are the exception and generally indicate the intended use trumping the traditional caliber definitions.

There is also a tendency in popular media to call any military style, high capacity weapon an assault rifle regardless of caliber or the ability to deliver full auto fire, which is just as wrong as calling all handguns revolvers.

Excuse me?  I'm using the definitions as supplied by the Australian Army to me when I served.  An "Assault rifle" was a rifle of any calibre which was capable of both fully and semi-automatic fire.  There was no reference to calibre involved.    It didn't matter whether it fired 7.62x51mm or 5.56x45mm or 7.62x39mm rounds.

A LMG is a light, bipod mounted weapon of rifle calibre capable of semi-automatic or fully-automatic fire.  A Bren gun is an excellent example of that, just as is a Lewis gun.

A MMG is a medium machine gun, fired from a tripod and of rifle calibre.   A Vickers gun is an excellent example of an MMG.

A HMG is a heavy machine gun, fired from a tripod and of calibre greater than general rifle calibre.

A GPMG is a weapon which fires a rifle calibre round and can be fired from either bipod or tripod.   The first was the MG30 used by the German Army.

An SFMG is a Sustained Fire Machine Gun, generally of rifle calibre, which is fired from a tripod and has dial sights.   The Fabrique-Nationale L7 GPMG is an excellent example of that sort of weapon.

An SMG is a Sub-Machine Gun, which generally fires a pistol calibre round in fully automatic fire and is hand held.   The German MP40 or the British Sten or the Australian Owen guns are excellent examples of such weapons.


Offline marauder2048

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #297 on: April 22, 2017, 03:33:31 pm »
Taxonomy debates are fun but pointless since you can always poke holes in them:
neither of you mentioned Personal Defense Weapons for which an entire class of
cartridges and systems have been developed. Where does .300 Blackout fit for example?


A "battle rifle"?  A very American term.  You simply said, "7.62". 
I wonder why 7.62x51mm rifles have reliability problems when in bullpup configuration, whereas 5.56x45mm service rifles generally don't.   

The OP discussed an American Armed Service procuring a rifle in 7.62 NATO hence the terminology.
My subsequent post mentioned 7.62 NATO. It's been a clear theme in this thread.

Bullpups are finicky in terms of digesting different ammunition brands/types within the *same* caliber.
Thales has been forced design its own line of 5.56 EPR rounds since its bullpups could not function reliably
with the M855A1 despite it being successfully employed by some elements of the Australian Army
who use conventional rifles.

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #298 on: April 22, 2017, 06:15:03 pm »
The definition of an "assault rifle," a literal translation of the German "sturmgewehr," is a selective fire weapon of intermediate caliber, more powerful that a pistol cartridge but less powerful than a traditional rifle  cartridge.  That is a fact, anything else is missing the point.
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Offline Kadija_Man

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #299 on: April 22, 2017, 09:25:16 pm »
Taxonomy debates are fun but pointless since you can always poke holes in them:
neither of you mentioned Personal Defense Weapons for which an entire class of
cartridges and systems have been developed. Where does .300 Blackout fit for example?

Glorified SMGs, nothing more.  Either that or a glorified, fancified pistol.  "PDW" is a nonsense AFAIAC.  Give them an SMG.  Worked for me when I served in the Army, why is there a sudden need for a new sort of weapon?

Quote
A "battle rifle"?  A very American term.  You simply said, "7.62". 
I wonder why 7.62x51mm rifles have reliability problems when in bullpup configuration, whereas 5.56x45mm service rifles generally don't.   

The OP discussed an American Armed Service procuring a rifle in 7.62 NATO hence the terminology.
My subsequent post mentioned 7.62 NATO. It's been a clear theme in this thread.

The OP did not when I read it, mention anything other than the calibre, 7.62mm.  The term "NATO" doesn't appear until after the initial posting mention the US Army's search (supposedly) for a new rifle.

Quote
Bullpups are finicky in terms of digesting different ammunition brands/types within the *same* caliber.
Thales has been forced design its own line of 5.56 EPR rounds since its bullpups could not function reliably
with the M855A1 despite it being successfully employed by some elements of the Australian Army
who use conventional rifles.

Bullpups are as finicky as the designer wants to make them.  M855 isn't the standard SS109 round.   It is the US Army's interpretation of the SS109 standard.   Then you have the individual US manufacturers interpretation of what M855 means...   

Bullpups are not worried by different ammunition if the ammunition is designed to fit the weapon they are being used in or vice-versa.   If the users and the manufacturers actually adhered to the standard set out in the STANAG you'd avoid 90% of the problems...


Offline bobbymike

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #300 on: April 29, 2017, 04:53:08 pm »
https://www.facebook.com/RealClearDefense/videos/1336727293084890/

Could you with a special eye reticle make an IR tracer that can only been seen by someone with that eyepiece?
« Last Edit: April 29, 2017, 05:11:32 pm by bobbymike »
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Offline marauder2048

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #301 on: April 29, 2017, 07:38:38 pm »
.50 Cal One Way Luminescence rounds are in the pipeline for FY2020.

Offline marauder2048

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Re: Future soldier technology (modified thread)
« Reply #302 on: April 29, 2017, 10:38:09 pm »