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Author Topic: 3D printing  (Read 28416 times)

Offline PlanesPictures

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Re: 3D printing
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2014, 11:54:49 am »
More on used printer here: http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,22058.0.html


We suppose to sold them "äs is". I hope our plus will be good shape. Details will be in hand of modellers. Printed models will be only more or less known projects (CL-1000, Archangel, Kingfish, M-25, Tu-135) and only a few of real funs will like them.


We will start with test printing on end of August, 2014.





Offline sferrin

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Re: 3D printing
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2014, 08:03:57 am »
First "hot" 3D-model

What modeller do you use?
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Offline PlanesPictures

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Re: 3D printing
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2014, 09:46:25 am »
I use Rhinoceros

Offline tiikki

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Re: 3D printing
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2014, 11:02:04 pm »
Are these 3D prints going to be one-offs? Or are you going to turn them into kits that people can buy?

If the latter, you're better off making one print, doing a lot of cleanup to the parts, then having the parts cast in resin. For more than a dozen or so kits, that's cheaper... and the quality is also a lot better. As great as 3D printing is to make master parts, it's still not yet to where you can sell *quality* kits straight from the printer. Even the best printers have regrettable surface finishes.

I would disagree with that surface finish comment. The high end industrial models (price tag starting around 100 000€ or 135 000 USD) produce parts comparable to injection molding (I know that there are not all injection molding products are same quality). We are not talking about printers costing few thousands. But we shall see when the printing starts :)

The model kits will be a side project for my 3D-printing business in order to keep expensive machinery utilization rate as high as possible. My profits on this will be less than on printing for hire business, but smaller profit is better than no profit at all when machinery is idle. In printing for hire the most of the price comes from the cost of the printer, not from the material costs.
Short calculation: the loan has to be paid in 4 years, there are 12 months in each and each month has 4 weeks with 5 working days and each day has 8 business hours, so the machine has around 8000 hours to make at minimum 100 000€ in order to pay back the loan. So at minimum and full business hour usage (unrealistic) 12.5€/hour +depreciation+material+interest+rent+electricity+salaries+profit. With everything else, except material, factored in with realistic usage hours the hourly rate for the machine has to be above 100€. And printing is slow process... (So slow, that most of printer manufactures don't usually quote the speed of their machines in their public material.) In this side project I can do it lot cheaper as long as it doesn't hurt my main business.

In the case of resin, the material costs of printing are higher (I'd estimate it to be around order of magnitude on small business scale purchases), but amount of labor is lot less. In printing I can just push the button on printer at evening when I'm leaving and the printer prints the parts during night and on morning I collect them and put them in the washer and then some time later move them to drier.


Tuomo

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Offline PlanesPictures

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Re: 3D printing
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2014, 11:58:39 am »
first 3D models are printed out. So lets go totally rebuild them

Offline Hobbes

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Re: 3D printing
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2014, 12:58:33 pm »
Are these 3D prints going to be one-offs? Or are you going to turn them into kits that people can buy?

If the latter, you're better off making one print, doing a lot of cleanup to the parts, then having the parts cast in resin. For more than a dozen or so kits, that's cheaper... and the quality is also a lot better. As great as 3D printing is to make master parts, it's still not yet to where you can sell *quality* kits straight from the printer. Even the best printers have regrettable surface finishes.

I would disagree with that surface finish comment. The high end industrial models (price tag starting around 100 000€ or 135 000 USD) produce parts comparable to injection molding (I know that there are not all injection molding products are same quality). We are not talking about printers costing few thousands. But we shall see when the printing starts :)

Interesting. I've been using Shapeways to print some parts, and the prints I've received in their highest-resolution material (which they call FUD) are definitely not as smooth as an injection moulded model. I always have to do a bit of sanding to get a smooth finish.

Offline PlanesPictures

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Re: 3D printing
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2014, 02:08:57 pm »
"are definitely not as smooth as an injection moulded model" - it will be payment for their unique

Offline tiikki

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Re: 3D printing
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2014, 09:39:24 am »

Interesting. I've been using Shapeways to print some parts, and the prints I've received in their highest-resolution material (which they call FUD) are definitely not as smooth as an injection moulded model. I always have to do a bit of sanding to get a smooth finish.

There are quality differences in injection moulding too :)
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Offline GTX

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Re: 3D printing
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2014, 12:15:22 pm »
Ho are you going with this and more importantly, when might there be kits available to purchase? 

Offline tiikki

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Re: 3D printing
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2014, 09:57:00 pm »
first 3D models are printed out. So lets go totally rebuild them
Ho are you going with this and more importantly, when might there be kits available to purchase? 

The first iteration is shown here, I'm waiting CAD-files for the second iteration.
There are multiple things to change for easier handling in printing, which I want to be changed. For example multiple parts are smaller than support net in cleaning machines, adding some sprue to them would make my work as a printer a lot easier (and if there are multiple models printing at the same time it makes it easier to separate parts from different models). Another example is support material, while it is a bit cheaper than the actual matter cleaning it from small cavities is PITA and can easily add a day in production time (the whiteness in wings are example of some leftover support material).

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Offline GTX

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Re: 3D printing
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2014, 08:27:28 pm »
What designs/scales?

Offline PlanesPictures

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Re: 3D printing
« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2014, 02:44:15 am »
we suppose scales 1/72 and 1/48 and unique designs resp. all design family (Archangel, Fish, Kingfish. Vickers VA559, Avro 730 ). But I solve now problem with printing sharp edges on wings. When we will know all rules then it will be very fast

Offline PlanesPictures

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Re: 3D printing
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2014, 02:51:10 pm »
Last iteration of Saab 1418. Ready for printing

Offline PlanesPictures

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Re: 3D printing
« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2014, 01:02:38 pm »
Saab Projects 14nn

Offline athpilot

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Re: 3D printing
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2014, 03:41:46 am »
Good luck for printing! I hope it works as you wish (especially the edges ;). Please let us know about the results.

Greetings
Athpilot