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Author Topic: Aotian-1, a Chinese hypersonic reentry demonstrator flown tested on 20/09/2013?  (Read 88752 times)

Offline antigravite

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Hi,

There seems to be a "new" organization in charge of studying RLVs, "space aircraft", "aerospaceplanes", etc. in China.

This organization is teaming up with CALT, but distinct from it.

This organization is called the "Beijing Linjin Space Aircraft System Engineering Institute".

A.

Hi,

I did some little more homework on that. The story goes, as far back as I could determine, to 2008. On the basis of information I was able to pieced up today. This(these) institute(s) might have been created earlier, i.e. prior anything is published.
I did not investigate further down Chinese blogs, etc. Only industry-related literature.

2008: BEIJING SPACE AIRCRAFT DESIGN
2010: BEIJING NEAR SPACE AIRCRAFT SYSTEM ENGINEERING RESEARCH INSTITUTE
2011: BEIJING SPACE AIRCRAFT OVERALL DESIGN DEPARTMENT
2013: BEIJING LINJIN SPACE AIRCRAFT SYSTEM ENGINEERING INSTITUTE

To conclude: I was wrong in my quoted post; the aerospace R&D institute remains very active, but it is not really "new".
One of its areas of expertise, as it seems, is sensor integration and attitude control on hypersonic/reentry vehicles.

BTW, and for those who care, there is another R&D institute, that might be related (with a specialty in CAV-like systems, such as the so-called DFZF):

2011: NEAR SPACE INSTITUTE FOR AIRCRAFT SYSTEMS ENGINEERING

A.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2016, 06:15:50 am by antigravite »
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Offline antigravite

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Hmm… 

No new news? Weird. There should be new news, soon.

A.
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Offline bobbymike

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Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of teachers.

Charles W. Eliot

Offline antigravite

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https://www.sipri.org/sites/default/files/Factoring-Russia-into-US-Chinese-equation-hypersonic-glide-vehicles.pdf

Nice find BobbyMike. Thx.
Gives a larger, picturesque contextual understanding of the hypersonic equation.
However, this is DF-ZF (strategic boost-glide) material, not Aotian (reusable spaceplane) related.
Of course, and as it sometimes happens, cross-competence and transdisciplinary work required to keep things rolling, actually blur what appears distinct at higher visible levels.

A.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2017, 11:37:15 pm by PaulMM (Overscan) »
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Offline sferrin

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"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

Offline bobbymike

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https://www.sipri.org/sites/default/files/Factoring-Russia-into-US-Chinese-equation-hypersonic-glide-vehicles.pdf

It's a certainty that China will have Prompt Global Strike abilities WELL before the US.
We've been giving away strategic weapons technology advantages since the end of WWII why stop now.  :'(
Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of teachers.

Charles W. Eliot

Offline antigravite

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https://www.sipri.org/sites/default/files/Factoring-Russia-into-US-Chinese-equation-hypersonic-glide-vehicles.pdf

It's a certainty that China will have Prompt Global Strike abilities WELL before the US.
We've been giving away strategic weapons technology advantages since the end of WWII why stop now.  :'(

Yes.  But one has to balance this equation with some perspective. Much has happened in the US in the black world, seemingly.

A.
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Offline sferrin

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Much has happened in the US in the black world, seemingly.

A.

Given the notable lack of success in the US in white world hypersonics, I'd have to say I highly doubt it. 
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

Offline antigravite

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The number of potential sites where the test flight supposedly happened is limited to 30 Air Bases of interest including the Dingxin / Shuangchengzi AB which has a special missile testing unit.

Dingxin is not in the same region.

Thank you

A.
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Offline Airplane

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https://www.sipri.org/sites/default/files/Factoring-Russia-into-US-Chinese-equation-hypersonic-glide-vehicles.pdf

It's a certainty that China will have Prompt Global Strike abilities WELL before the US.
We've been giving away strategic weapons technology advantages since the end of WWII why stop now.  :'(

Yes.  But one has to balance this equation with some perspective. Much has happened in the US in the black world, seemingly.

A.

Based on....?  Unless we are have been flight testing hypersonics deep in the pacific, far away from conus, there hasn't been anything hypersonic picked up by seismology stations since the space shuttle except the x37. Hiding a fighter sized stealth aircraft in the desert is one thing, but people would notice something traveling at mach 6 and high altitude for many miles. Doing hypersonics in a black world, unknown, is next to impossible if not impossible. Could you imagine a blackworld x-15 darting around at 300k and 6 mach? No way.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2017, 06:28:14 pm by Airplane »
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Offline Sundog

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Much has happened in the US in the black world, seemingly.

A.

Given the notable lack of success in the US in white world hypersonics, I'd have to say I highly doubt it.

Drop the hyperbole. We have more hypersonic experience than all the countries of the earth combined. In the white world we flew a hypersonic aircraft for decades; It was known as the Space Shuttle and it performed a large amount of hypersonic research during re-entry.

Offline phrenzy

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  • as long as all they ask me about is the air war...
The question is ram and scram Propulsion, almost everyone can create a ballistic reentry vehicle, that dors not a hypersonic program make.

After doing some research my initial conclusion is that lockheed at least has variable geometry combined RAM/SCRAM engines with shock intersection and pressure induced combustion. This is based on what I've seen on the state of the a art in white world testing and more importantly the soft of papers bring turned out on hypersonic wind tunnel data and CFD.
I have US operational hypersonics research, for practical best term aircraft in AIAA papers going back at least 30 years and tentative cuts they point to test craft, ground based proof of concepts with long term positive results and web hints at previous operational aircraft, though they are obviously careful to avoid that as you don't get redactions in these papers, but I've only just started going through them.

I think for a long time high stealth sub Sub sonics and maneuvererable satellites (themselves stealthy) with better sensors (hyperspectral, space based bi static SAR etc.) was where it was at. However the need for fast tasked ISR strike platforms just wouldn't go away and if they needed to bring the Blackbird bank for 91, you can see why they would need it blue more than ever seen Anti-sat and anti stealth work advancing so quickly with tier one adversaries.

Just saying you shouldn't be surprised to see some cool stuff get rolled out in the event if national emergency. It might not be glamorous like a Habu, but a long range sensor YAV, line the d-21? Maybe...

The Chinese prisms seen to be all over the place but that impression night be misleading, deliberately or not, or they could be funding anything that moves (over Mach 5).
We train young men to drop fire on people. Yet their commanders won't allow them to write "fuck" on their airplanes because it is obscene.  -  Kurtz

Offline sferrin

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Drop the hyperbole. We have more hypersonic experience than all the countries of the earth combined. In the white world we flew a hypersonic aircraft for decades; It was known as the Space Shuttle and it performed a large amount of hypersonic research during re-entry.

Which is worth just slightly more than zero when it comes to sustained hypersonic flight.  Also, don't make the mistake of assuming that because we once did a thing (say, flew BGRV or ASALM PTV) that we could do it again (see the string of failures that pass for "success" in the US, or the habit of quitting at the first sign of difficulty - many times BEFORE the first sign of difficulty).  The Greatest Generation has retired, or died, and taken it's can-do attitude with it.  In the West anyway.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 06:30:45 am by sferrin »
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

Offline antigravite

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Drop the hyperbole. We have more hypersonic experience than all the countries of the earth combined. In the white world we flew a hypersonic aircraft for decades; It was known as the Space Shuttle and it performed a large amount of hypersonic research during re-entry.

Which is worth just slightly more than zero when it comes to sustained hypersonic flight.  Also, don't make the mistake of assuming that because we once did a thing (say, flew BGRV or ASALM PTV) that we could do it again (see the string of failures that pass for "success" in the US, or the habit of quitting at the first sign of difficulty - many times BEFORE the first sign of difficulty).  The Greatest Generation has retired, or died, and taken it's can-do attitude with it.  In the West anyway.

Sferrin, you nailed it. China is active in many hypersonic programs. More than half a dozen hypersonic shuttle-related projects are on the way. Because of their political-economy, based on the plan, they are very unlikely to quit.

Back to Aotian-1, now. We should soon hear of Aotian-2 or something along these lines...

A.
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Offline VH

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"...Because of their political-economy, based on the plan, they are very unlikely to quit."

What if the 'plan' leads to a dead end? And regarding the 'can-do attitude' you claim has died in the west please make sure you qualify that you are speaking for yourself.