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Author Topic: The so-called "Myasishchev M-13" bomber: real project or myth?  (Read 10572 times)

Offline hesham

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Hi,


I displayed this Myasishchev aircraft before,but I didn't know it,until I find it,
it was M-13 four engined heavy bomber.


http://www.defence.pk/forums/air-warfare/75408-combat-aircraft-projects-designs-index-2nd-post-34.html
« Last Edit: March 15, 2013, 04:58:28 pm by Stargazer2006 »

Offline ucon

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Re: The so-called "Myasishchev M-13" bomber: real project or myth?
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2013, 09:44:03 am »
My dear Hesham!
Designation M-13 never exist in any officials MDB documents.
See DVB-202, 302

Offline hesham

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Re: The so-called "Myasishchev M-13" bomber: real project or myth?
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2013, 09:58:27 am »
My dear Ucon,


but I saw in a Russian site,something like this;


MYASISHCHEV


M-13 : Tu-85

Offline Cy-27

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Re: The so-called "Myasishchev M-13" bomber: real project or myth?
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2013, 12:43:10 am »
I have a note that says see Russian Civil & Military Aircraft 1884-1969 Nowarra & Duval, Heinz J. & G.R. - Harleyford ..... I will dig it out and see what it says

Offline ucon

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Re: The so-called "Myasishchev M-13" bomber: real project or myth?
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2013, 02:53:25 am »
My dear Hesham!
Till now I was sure you are an expert in aviation, but not a collector of old mistakes and western fairy tales of russian designations from the CW period. And second - please always give a link.
Anyway, my respect to you

Online Jemiba

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Re: The so-called "Myasishchev M-13" bomber: real project or myth?
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2013, 04:34:19 am »
Maybe I've found the source, or at least one source of the ominous "Myasishchev M-13", although it isn't a
russian site, as hesham stated :http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/russia/m-4.htm
Now it's up to the experts for russian aviation to tell us the truth !  ;)
 
Something I would like to bring back to and fix deep in our memories: There's no way to make sure, that something,
may it be an aircraft or anything else, actually existed, because it is mentioned on a website !
And unfortunately not even being mentioned in an "oldfashioned" book prevents us from being fooled by errors and even
fakes. Otherwise the "Haunebu Flugscheiben", chem trails and the monster of Loch Ness would be very real indeed.  ;)
We need not care about monsters here in this forum (and I hope, not about chem trails, too !  ::)   ), but with regards to
aviation, we should try to separate the wheat from the chaff. And I'll wholehearted second Ucons plea to always mentioning
the source ! Otherwise it's very difficult for other members to search for and assess such claims.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Cy-27

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Re: The so-called "Myasishchev M-13" bomber: real project or myth?
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2013, 05:28:20 am »
When I do dig out Russian Civil & Military Aircraft 1884-1969 (Nowarra & Duval) and look for the M-13 reference it will carry a caveat because, like a lot of books produced in the West during the Cold War, a lot of misinformation and disinformation can occur. I usually like two totally seperate sources before I begin to believe whats written!
 

Offline hesham

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Re: The so-called "Myasishchev M-13" bomber: real project or myth?
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2013, 05:43:01 am »
You are right my dears Jemiba,Ucon and Cy-27,


I found it here,as M-13: incorrect name of Tu-85;
http://www.webring.org/l/rd?ring=rusar;id=6;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eaviation%2Eru%2F


but look with me to those two drawings,they aren't resemble,now I am asking;
if that drawing is not for M-13 (designation incorrect),what is that Myasishchev
design ?.

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: The so-called "Myasishchev M-13" bomber: real project or myth?
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2013, 06:35:58 am »
The problem with the "M-13" designation is that it is completely non-standard:
  • In the early/OKB-482 system, it would have been "VM-13" (but that was given to the Pe-2M, a 1945 variant of the Petlyakov dive bomber with 2 VK-107A engines).
  • In the OKB-23 system, there was no room for an "M-13" because it continued the old VM- system without the "V" (M-25 being the first such designation).
  • In the official system, there only ever were three designations, the M-2, M-4 (M-25) and M-6 (M-36).
  • In the EMZ system, "M-13" was a projected military transport of 1968 (therefore too late to be that aircraft).
For these reasons, I can't see where this "M-13" would fit in...

Offline hesham

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Re: The so-called "Myasishchev M-13" bomber: real project or myth?
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2013, 07:01:48 am »
I don't ask about M-13,may be it was never existed,but I ask about what was this aircraft ?.

Offline redstar72

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Re: The so-called "Myasishchev M-13" bomber: real project or myth?
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2013, 07:07:57 am »
I see two possibilities:
1) This is not very correct (and highly oversized) interpretation of some of DVB-202/302/402 projects;
2) This is pure imagination of Western author who thought that "there must have been something like this"...
Best regards,
Alexander

Offline lark

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Re: The so-called "Myasishchev M-13" bomber: real project or myth?
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2013, 07:58:51 am »
A large part of the so called information about Russian aviation in the 'West' during
the CW period is pure imagination based on hazy photo's and rumors.
Often made up by intelligence groups.
 
I remember the big scare of the 'Tug' -6 engined bomber...
 
I have the book mentioned by Cy on my shelves .I keep it only as a relic of a time gone
and no longer as a reliable source of info.

Offline hesham

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Re: The so-called "Myasishchev M-13" bomber: real project or myth?
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2013, 08:46:14 am »
Thank you my dears Lark and Redstar,


but my dear Lark,in Mr. Tony Butler's book; Soviet Secret Projects: Bombers since 1945,
he mention that under Myasishchev part;


Heavy Bomber six-engine designs utilising either piston,turboprop or turbojets, 1946.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2013, 02:53:05 pm by hesham »

Offline ucon

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Re: The so-called "Myasishchev M-13" bomber: real project or myth?
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2013, 10:01:02 am »
Steph, may be you have meant M-12 from 1968? M-13 never existed in EMZ.
Anyway I would like to see that M-13 military transport)))

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: The so-called "Myasishchev M-13" bomber: real project or myth?
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2013, 10:09:53 am »
Steph, may be you have meant M-12 from 1968? M-13 never existed in EMZ.
Anyway I would like to see that M-13 military transport)))

Well I had an "M-13" in my list, but I must have copied it from a source that had a typo... Thanks for the info!