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Author Topic: Kawanishi KX-03 giant 500-ton flying boat  (Read 37900 times)

Offline Hikoki1946

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Kawanishi KX-03 giant 500-ton flying boat
« on: August 03, 2011, 01:38:53 pm »
New one to me. 500 tons? What a monster that would have been. The H11K Soku was the KX-8 internally to the company. If the designators went in order, then one can surmise that the KX-3 was a proposal which pre-dated the H11K. Still, I bet no sane military official would have given such a proposal much thought. A transport that big would have been highly vulnerable, regardless of the armament it may have carried. Just look at the Me 323's vulnerability when flying without benefit of air cover.

I'd love to know more about the design but I suspect it was a flash in the pan and was quickly shelved to work on more promising, and more realistic, designs.




Anyone knows Kawanishi super large 500 ton flying boat study called KX-03?

Offline Winston

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Re: Kawanishi KX-03 giant 500-ton flying boat
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2011, 05:25:26 pm »
Any dimensions/specifications for this aircraft? I'd like to see how it compares to the Spruce Goose.  :D
« Last Edit: August 03, 2011, 05:29:29 pm by Winston »

Offline Winston

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Re: Kawanishi KX-03 giant 500-ton flying boat
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2011, 07:25:57 am »
Enjoy your summer vacation blackkite, I will wait in anticipation!

Offline blackkite

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Re: Kawanishi KX-03 giant 500-ton flying boat
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2011, 04:56:46 am »
According to “もしもWEAPON”, the source of KX-03 are Kawanishi aircraft's technical report No541,544,566 ”500ton class flying boat study. The IJN ordered Kawanishi to study 500 ton class flying boat in the beginning of 1943. 
Overall length;162m, Span;180m, Height;35.4m, Wing area;1,150square meter,
Gross weight;460ton, Range;18,520km, Payload;900 soldiers with normal equipments,
Engines; Ne201 turbo prop engine(7,000hp + static thrust 900kg/each engine)×12(total 132,000hp),
Ne330 jet engine×6(total equivalent 7,920hp), crews;24.
Ed! How about cover this study in your next work?
BTW according to another book"Kikka (miki shobo) ISBN4-89522-276-4 C0053 " Ne201's power was 1,870hp.(7,000hp is too large for Ne201,)
I think Ne201 was not applied this study. The engine of this study might be another secret studied engine.
I believe also KX-01 nad KX-02 were studied. I can't imagine what aircrafts were. (flying boat?)
« Last Edit: January 13, 2013, 05:35:39 am by blackkite »

Offline T-50

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Re: Kawanishi KX-03 giant 500-ton flying boat
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2011, 01:23:00 pm »
Hi Blackkite san first Ill hope you had a nice vacantion,and second this is awsome new to me! a 500 ton heavy flying boat!
I ask my self those engines most be very powerfull to powe such big aircraft,even bigger than the B-36! Ill think at least engines of 7000hp!

Offline redstar72

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Re: Kawanishi KX-03 giant 500-ton flying boat
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2011, 01:45:06 pm »
big aircraft,even bigger than the B-36!
:D If it was 162 m long and 180 m "wide", it was TWICE as big than ANY the biggest aircraft every built in this world - including the Spruce Goose and An-225 Mriya!  :o And with 500 tons weight, it was almost as heavy as the Mriya, A380 and the Caspian Sea Monster!
Best regards,
Alexander

Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Kawanishi KX-03 giant 500-ton flying boat
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2011, 02:09:31 pm »
Most interesting. If the information is correct, this implies that the study was continued into 1944-45. In 1943, the Ne 201 and Ne 330 weren't even on the table. Only the Ne 10 and Ne 12 were in development at this time. It was only in July 1944, with the advent of Eiichi Iwaya's arrival in Japan with the copy of a cross-section of the BMW 003A, was the Ne 20 and its derivatives discussed. It wasn't until June 1945 when the Ne 20 got anywhere near production (only 6 Ne 20 engines were available at this time). Mitsubishi never built any example of the Ne 330 by the close of the war.

This is pure speculation on my part, but if the KX-3 was something that was left on the table, the turbo-jet powered Kawanishi K-200 may have been derived from the design. The more commonly circulated contemporary illustration of the K-200 shows some similarity to the KX-3, notably in the hull and the placement of the jet engines on top of the wings. The K-200 wasn't even close to the KX-3 in terms of size but it was a much more reasonable design. Though, the K-200, even with six Ne 330 engines would have had abysmal range compared to the likes of the Kawanishi H8K.

But yes, Blackkite, the KX-3 may find its way into the second book.  ;D

According to “もしもWEAPON”, the source of KX-03 are Kawanishi aircraft's technical report No541,544,566 ”500ton class flying boat study. The IJN ordered Kawanishi to study 500 ton class flying boat in the beginning of 1943. 
Overall length;162m, Span;180m, Height;35.4m, Wing area;1,150square meter,
Gross weight;460ton, Range;18,520km, Payload;900 soldiers with normal equipments,
Engines; Ne201 turbo prop engine(7,000hp + static thrust 900kg/each engine)×12(total 132,000hp),
Ne330 jet engine×6(total equivalent 7,920hp), crews;24.
Ed! How about cover this study in your next work?
BTW according to another book"Kikka (miki shobo) ISBN4-89522-276-4 C0053 " Ne201's power was 1,870hp.(7,000hp is too large for Ne201,)
I think Ne201 was not applied this study. The engine of this study might be another secret studied engine.
I believe also KX-01 nad KX-02 were studied. I can't imagine what aircrafts were. (flying boat?)

Offline Winston

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Re: Kawanishi KX-03 giant 500-ton flying boat
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2011, 04:24:40 pm »
 :o  This design is....well, mind boggling! Thanks blackkite! Also it would be great to see this design added into the second book Ed.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 04:27:23 pm by Winston »

Offline blackkite

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Re: Kawanishi KX-03 giant 500-ton flying boat
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2011, 05:08:38 am »
Hi! I think this 7,000hp turbo prop engine is too large compared with the state of the art of Japan at the day.
About the engine,this Kawanishi study might have been only determined required engine size for 500 ton class flying boat.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2011, 02:48:48 pm by blackkite »

Offline foiling

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Re: Kawanishi KX-03 giant 500-ton flying boat
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2011, 06:19:06 am »
Hey Blackkite, thanks for the data & general arrangement of the KX-03. Amazing that something so huge, even if only a very brief idea, could remain so unknown. Monstrous & impressive. Never a dull moment on this site.

Offline royabulgaf

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Re: Kawanishi KX-03 giant 500-ton flying boat
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2011, 03:35:24 pm »
I did a bit of cypherin' based on the B-36 wingspan vs the KX-3.  The wingspan is about 2.5 times the B-36s.  Cubing this, I get a KX-3 volume of 16.625 times that of the B-36.  Assuming similar construction methods and a B-36 gross weight of 130 tons, I get a weight of over 2000 tons.  This is somewhat generous,  as due to the square-cube law, construction would have to be sturdier.  With a wing area of 443 sq meters, you get about .3 tons per square meter of wing loading.  The KX-3 wing loading would be about six times as much.  Am I missing something?

Offline windswords

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Re: Kawanishi KX-03 giant 500-ton flying boat
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2011, 04:58:19 pm »
Just when I thought I heard everything. Blackkite, I can't believe this was a study ordered by the IJN. It seems more of a fantasy imagined by a bored aircraft designer. The Navy had to know that a plane like the KX-03 was impossible to build. however I will take your word on it because you have been an impeccable source of information in the past. Holy cow, is that a Fugaku in the upper left corner?  :o The small single engine plane appears to be an A6M. You could have two story apartment in that wing!
« Last Edit: August 08, 2011, 05:56:11 pm by windswords »
Frank

Offline blackkite

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Re: Kawanishi KX-03 giant 500-ton flying boat
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2011, 03:46:37 am »
I did a bit of cypherin' based on the B-36 wingspan vs the KX-3.  The wingspan is about 2.5 times the B-36s.  Cubing this, I get a KX-3 volume of 16.625 times that of the B-36.  Assuming similar construction methods and a B-36 gross weight of 130 tons, I get a weight of over 2000 tons.  This is somewhat generous,  as due to the square-cube law, construction would have to be sturdier.  With a wing area of 443 sq meters, you get about .3 tons per square meter of wing loading.  The KX-3 wing loading would be about six times as much.  Am I missing something?
Wow surprising wing loading and gross weight!
Yes this study is very hard to believe for me,too.
The planes located top of the drawing are Fugaku, Zero and B-36.   

Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Kawanishi KX-03 giant 500-ton flying boat
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2011, 08:56:35 am »
I've passed along the information on the KX-3 to Shozo Abe to get his take on it as he is one of the most respected authorities on Japanese aviation, including Kawanishi. I will say that back in 2009, he was skeptical of the turbojet powered K-200 flying boat, having never heard of such a design in his studies to that date. Based on that, the K-200 almost didn't make my book but I left it in as the evidence to date has yet to 100% confirm or deny the K-200 project.

Offline blackkite

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Re: Kawanishi KX-03 giant 500-ton flying boat
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2011, 03:22:37 pm »
I did a bit of cypherin' based on the B-36 wingspan vs the KX-3.  The wingspan is about 2.5 times the B-36s.  Cubing this, I get a KX-3 volume of 16.625 times that of the B-36.  Assuming similar construction methods and a B-36 gross weight of 130 tons, I get a weight of over 2000 tons.  This is somewhat generous,  as due to the square-cube law, construction would have to be sturdier.  With a wing area of 443 sq meters, you get about .3 tons per square meter of wing loading.  The KX-3 wing loading would be about six times as much.  Am I missing something?
Hi! royabulgaf.
I want to know your opinion for possible size of 500ton flying boat. 747 class?
« Last Edit: August 09, 2011, 03:32:52 pm by blackkite »