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Author Topic: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile  (Read 64277 times)

Offline bobbymike

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Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« on: October 31, 2012, 09:17:49 pm »
Best picture on page 6 Lockheed Martin 'Cuda' small AMRAAM for internal weapons bay of the F-35. I count 12 missiles total.

http://www.airforce-magazine.com/MagazineArchive/Magazine%20Documents/2012/November%202012/1112expo.pdf

Can some of the experts here at SP estimate its size and therefore its potential range from these pictures?
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Offline SpudmanWP

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2012, 01:35:01 pm »
Here's the quote:

Quote
|1| A Lockheed Martin model shows how its “’Cuda” concept for a small AMRAAM-class radar guided dogfight missile could triple the air-to-air internal loadout on an F-35. The missile is about the size of a Small Diameter Bomb and fits on an SDB-style rack.

Would it not make more sense, given the limited space available in a small missile package, to go with IIR (hardened against DIRCM)?

Also, how about using it for missile defense (anti-SAM & anti-AAM)?
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Offline mithril

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2012, 03:46:11 pm »
maybe the choice of radar guidance was to limit the exposure of the aircraft?
IIRC, IR guidance require the missile to be mounted such that it can acquire the target just before launch using its own seeker. something that can be difficult using internal bays. on the F-22 they used a trapeze system, on the F-35 the sidewinder compatible hardpoint was mounted on the door, etc.

using radar guidance, the missile can be just ejected out of the bay along a preprogrammed course. which means that it not only can be fired with less risk to the stealth of the plane, but also means that it doesn't have to have special mounting systems to make use of internal bays.

the Small Diameter Bomb size is interesting.. i seem to remember that at one point, the F-22 was predicted to be able to carry 8 SDB's along with 2 AMRAAMs and a 2 Sidewinders.. if these 'Cuda' missiles use the same mounts, an F-22 could conceivably carry 8+ 'Cuda' missiles in an air to air role, plus the larger systems.

i would imagine however that the small size and use of radar guidance would really limit the range of the missile.

also, it seems lockheed copyrighted 'Cuda' back in 2011.

Offline SpudmanWP

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2012, 06:18:48 pm »
The latest IIR missiles (like the Aim-9x Blk2) have lockon after launch (LOAL mode) so having a lock before launch is no longer needed.


Since these are dogfighting missiles, the target will be in full view and within the tracking ability of EODAS the whole time.  With a datalink constantly updating them with the target location, an IIR seeker is not a problem.


Another part of the problem with a radar seeker is the the nosecone is hollow (wasted space).  With such a small missile space is at a premium and an IIR seeker is more efficient (no wasted space in the nosecone, smaller battery, etc).   


And yes, currently the F-22 carries 8x SDB, 2x AMRAAM, and 2x Sidewinder.  Since the F-22 lives in BVR, a better option might be 4x AMRAAM, 2x Sidewinder and 4xCUDA.


They might continue the work done on the NCADE.  Notice that most to the seeker fits into the normally empty AMRAAM nosecone.  Compared to the NCADE seeker, more space can be saved due to not needing the shockwave spike (or whatever that is) on the NCADE.




Just like the F-22, I think it's a mistake to go with too many CUDA missiles.  3xAMRAAM (or 4 with the Blk5 upgrade) and 4xCUDA would be the ideal A2A loadout IMHO.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 07:13:18 pm by SpudmanWP »
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Offline sferrin

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2012, 07:11:09 pm »
The latest IIR missiles (like the Aim-9x Blk2) have lockon after launch (LOAL mode) so having a lock before launch is no longer needed.


Since these are dogfighting missiles, the target will be in full view and within the tracking ability of EODAS the whole time.  With a datalink constantly updating them with the target location, an IIR seeker is not a problem.


Another part of the problem with a radar seeker is the the nosecone is hollow (wasted space).  With such a small missile space is at a premium and an IIR seeker is more efficient (no wasted space in the nosecone, smaller battery, etc).   


And yes, currently the F-22 carries 8x SDB, 2x AMRAAM, and 2x Sidewinder.  Since the F-22 lives in BVR, a better option might be 4x AMRAAM, 2x Sidewinder and 4xCUDA.


They might continue the work done on the NCADE.  Notice that most to the seeker fits into the normally empty AMRAAM nosecone.  Compared to the NCADE seeker, more space can be saved due to not needing the shockwave spike (or whatever that is) on the NCADE.

I wonder how big the upper stage of the GD/Westinghouse AAAM was.  Even the upper stage had TVC and dual-mode guidance.  And folding wings.  Damn, every time I think about that thing it seems like such a shame it was never pursued. 
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Offline SpudmanWP

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2012, 07:16:35 pm »
It was my fav too.  The thing to remember with the 2nd stage of the AAAM was that all the heavy lifting (up to it's max altitude) was handled by the 1st stage booster.  The 2nd stage was able to get the job done due to it being able to trade potential energy for maneuver energy (aka gravity).


A CUDA would not have this benefit since it would be fighting gravity the whole way.


Here is the cutaway for the AAAM

« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 07:57:16 pm by SpudmanWP »
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Offline chuck4

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2012, 09:59:40 pm »
What happened to the dual band radar and infrared seeker for AAM that being developed during the late 1980s?
I believe the idea was for the missile to fly to within Lockon range with a hollow nose cone, then eject the nose cone to expose the dual band seeker to lock onto the target.


Offline SpudmanWP

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2012, 07:57:20 am »
Turn out the CUDA's range should not be as bad as I thought, aka math is your friend :)

I ran some simple cylinder calculations and found out that if the CUDA uses a 7 inch body that it will have the a little more internal volume (at least 10%) than an AIM-9X.  I added calculations for 6 and 5 inch bodys.

Code: [Select]
All in inches

Missile    Length    Diameter    Volume
AMRAAM     144       7           22167
9x         118.8     5           9331
CUDA       70.8*     7           10899
CUDA       70.8*     6           8007
CUDA       70.8*     5           5561

*SDB used as length

Different drag will have to be accounted for and if a radar seeker is used then even more volume will be lost for the fuel.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2012, 08:00:48 am by SpudmanWP »
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Offline mithril

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2012, 12:57:52 pm »
so if we assume the same warhead as a sidewinder, and a radar seeker off an AMRAAM, what kind of range could we be looking at here?

Offline SpudmanWP

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2012, 01:09:07 pm »
The problem with that kind of comparison is that the Radar seeker + dead space + batteries = much more volume than a 9x's IIR seeker + batteries and I do not know how much.
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Offline SpudmanWP

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2012, 06:34:33 pm »
CUDA is HTK

http://theaviationist.com/2012/11/30/cuda/



Quote
“Cuda is a Lockheed Martin multi-role Hit-to-Kill (HTK) missile concept.  Lockheed Martin has discussed the missile concept with the United States Air Force. The Cuda concept significantly increases the internal carriage capacity for 5th generation fighters (provides 2X to 3X capacity).  Combat proven HTK  technology has been in the US Army for over a decade.  Bringing this proven HTK technology to the USAF will provide potentially transformational new capabilities and options for new CONOPS.”
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Offline bobbymike

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2012, 04:15:52 am »
Turn out the CUDA's range should not be as bad as I thought, aka math is your friend :)

I ran some simple cylinder calculations and found out that if the CUDA uses a 7 inch body that it will have the a little more internal volume (at least 10%) than an AIM-9X.  I added calculations for 6 and 5 inch bodys.

Code: [Select]
All in inches

Missile    Length    Diameter    Volume
AMRAAM     144       7           22167
9x         118.8     5           9331
CUDA       70.8*     7           10899
CUDA       70.8*     6           8007
CUDA       70.8*     5           5561

*SDB used as length

Different drag will have to be accounted for and if a radar seeker is used then even more volume will be lost for the fuel.

So can you enhance range with a higher energy propellant? I am assuming if there is going to be a boost phase intercept mode you need a faster burn out speed?
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Offline starviking

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2012, 05:01:16 am »
CUDA is HTK

http://theaviationist.com/2012/11/30/cuda/





What are the rows of circles just down from the nose? Manouvering jets?

Offline Rafael

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2012, 08:16:17 am »
CUDA is HTK

http://theaviationist.com/2012/11/30/cuda/





What are the rows of circles just down from the nose? Manouvering jets?

It says it's a HTK "a small AMRAAM-class radar guided dogfight missile ". I speculate from these tidbits that this missile will be launched in LOBL mode to "reduce exposure" (though I'm not sure it can't be done with modern IR guidance). The "AMRAAM class" suggests to me that this small missile will have a range similar to an AIM-120 (no warhead inside, use the space for fuel). It's "dogfighting" capable, so the crown of maneuvering jets close to the nose suggests a very agile vehicle, In consequence, It's small, and can be stowed in greater numbers. It also says in the article it's "Multi-role"; so I'm thinking HTK=antimissile intercept capable, a Mini-PAC, maybe?. Kinetic Kill vehicle for A2G or anti-tank?

So many speculations on my part, but just the notion of storing more kills per bay makes me more comfortable with the F-35 and -22

Offline Avimimus

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2012, 11:07:17 am »
I'd assume that multi-role would mean both BVR and WVR modes... It'd be asking too much for an ATG mode (That said I've always liked the AGM-122 Sidearm).

Offline SpudmanWP

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2012, 11:36:06 am »
LOBL is "Lock On Before Launch"

I think you meant LOAL "Lock On After Launch".
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Offline sferrin

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2012, 12:06:13 pm »
This is such a good idea it will most certainly go nowhere.
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Offline Rafael

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2012, 04:56:24 pm »
I'd assume that multi-role would mean both BVR and WVR modes... It'd be asking too much for an ATG mode (That said I've always liked the AGM-122 Sidearm).

Noted, never thought of it, but I'm still in the foggy terrain of speculation.

LOBL is "Lock On Before Launch"

I think you meant LOAL "Lock On After Launch".

I meant LOBL, in the sense that, using  Electro-Optical Targeting System (EOTS) or own radar, the munition can be locked on *before* the launch event, while still stowed inside the bay. Not intending to deny LOAL at all, though. But I'm still speculating.

Offline SpudmanWP

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2012, 07:15:03 pm »
LOBL & LOAL refer to a seeker's own ability to detect and guide the missile to the target.

LOBL can never happen while a missile is in a bay.  The missile must acquire the target on it's own prior to launch to be called LOBL. 

The Aim-9M in the F-22 is just this type.  The -9M is moved into the slipstream for as long as it takes for the seeker to acquire the target (LOBL).  It is then, and only then, that it is launched.

The F-22's AMRAAM is a true LOAL missile.  The F-22 tracks a target & communicates with the AMRAAM as to where the target is.  It then opens its doors and ejects the missile.  If the target is close enough, the AMRAAM will immediately begin to seek out the target as it travels towards the target.  If the target is farther away, the AMRAAM will fly towards the target for some distance before activating its own seeker.
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Online BDF

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2012, 12:00:19 am »

The possibilities for this concept are tantalizing.  Imagine if they can match or come close to early AMRAAM iterations in kinetic capabilities.  I think it might be a stretch unless they've developed higher density propellants BUT one could envision a AMRAAM replacement evolving from this concept if it does work out.  I like Spuds idea of F-22s carrying 4 -120Ds, 4 CUDAs and 2 -9X, especially if your CUDAs get -120A like range.

Offline sferrin

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2012, 09:54:57 am »
Four air-launched ESSMs, four CUDAs, two AIM-9Xs.  B)
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Offline Rafael

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2012, 10:09:39 am »
LOBL & LOAL refer to a seeker's own ability to detect and guide the missile to the target.

Thanks for the explanation, Spudman. That clarifies much of the misconceptions I had.


Offline Avimimus

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2012, 10:24:53 am »
It is also worth noting that the active-radar seeker has a relatively short range, and is used for terminal homing - it is dependent on the aircraft's radar for acquisition and initial guidance (assuming it is being fired from more than 15-25 km).

Offline sferrin

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2012, 10:32:57 am »
It is also worth noting that the active-radar seeker has a relatively short range, and is used for terminal homing - it is dependent on the aircraft's radar for acquisition and initial guidance (assuming it is being fired from more than 15-25 km).

It's also worth noting that both the AIM-120 and previous Phoenix could go active right from the get go for short range shots.
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Offline quellish

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2012, 02:31:29 pm »
Interesting THAAD is interesting.

Offline Rafael

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2012, 02:33:30 pm »
Interesting THAAD is interesting.

Do you refer to THAAD for the choice of kill mechanism?

Offline SpudmanWP

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2012, 02:55:51 pm »
Four air-launched ESSMs, four CUDAs, two AIM-9Xs.  B)
Take it to the next level...

Strap a 71" x 7" booster on the back of the CUDA for an ALRAAM.  Kind of like GD AIM-152 without the multi-mode seeker.  Direct, long-ranged AMRAAM replacement.

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Offline Avimimus

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2012, 03:49:26 pm »
It is also worth noting that the active-radar seeker has a relatively short range, and is used for terminal homing - it is dependent on the aircraft's radar for acquisition and initial guidance (assuming it is being fired from more than 15-25 km).

It's also worth noting that both the AIM-120 and previous Phoenix could go active right from the get go for short range shots.

Yes it is.

Active-radar homing has always had a bit of a medium range / dogfight mystique to it. Isn't this kind-of the point of ARH?

Offline Abraham Gubler

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2012, 10:46:45 pm »
Take it to the next level...

Strap a 71" x 7" booster on the back of the CUDA for an ALRAAM.  Kind of like GD AIM-152 without the multi-mode seeker.  Direct, long-ranged AMRAAM replacement.

There already is a two stage AMRAAM, the Raytheon NCADE. It is configured for BMD with the AIM-9X IR seeker and hit to kill but you could use the two stage rocket motors with an air to air active radar seeker and anti aircraft hit to kill warhead.
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Offline Void

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2012, 03:47:12 am »
Active-radar homing has always had a bit of a medium range / dogfight mystique to it. Isn't this kind-of the point of ARH?

Speeed.

Because IR domes are physically weak, draggy and the performance of IR seekers drops with increasing missiles speed (turbulence and heating of the seeker dome are both problems) it is not a good choice for high speed missiles. I would guess that CUDA is radar guided, because CUDA has a very high burnout speed.

High velocity dovetails nicely with HTK guidance. Removing the warhead reduces the empty weight of the missile, and thrusters can produce enough force to perform tight turns even at very high speed. It also reduces the reaction time for the target and increases the lethality of the missile on impact.

Offline sferrin

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2012, 05:19:03 am »
Active-radar homing has always had a bit of a medium range / dogfight mystique to it. Isn't this kind-of the point of ARH?

Speeed.

Because IR domes are physically weak, draggy and the performance of IR seekers drops with increasing missiles speed (turbulence and heating of the seeker dome are both problems) it is not a good choice for high speed missiles.

You mean like THAAD and HEDI?  ;)
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Offline George Allegrezza

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2012, 08:25:14 am »
I think in each case the IR sensor is shielded for a portion of the flight, until the missile is above much of the atmosphere.

Offline SpudmanWP

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2012, 08:45:40 am »
NCADE might actually offer better range due to more % for fuel and 2nd stage being liquid fueled.

Take note that NCADE has an aerospike to protect the IIR seeker from friction heat.




http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt271/SpudmanWP/JDRADM/ncade1_zps67cc716a.jpg



http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt271/SpudmanWP/JDRADM/e7565783.jpg
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 08:56:32 am by SpudmanWP »
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Offline sferrin

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2012, 09:34:12 am »
I think in each case the IR sensor is shielded for a portion of the flight, until the missile is above much of the atmosphere.

Both are endoatmospheric weapons.  The windows are cooled.
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Offline George Allegrezza

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2012, 09:58:13 am »
Endo, schmendo. 


http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/app4/thaad.html


"In the terminal intercept phase, the KV is guided by an InSb staring FPA (Focal Plane Array) infrared seeker, whose window is protected in the initial flight phase by a clamshell protection shroud."





Offline sferrin

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #35 on: December 12, 2012, 10:27:34 am »
Endo, schmendo. 


http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/app4/thaad.html


"In the terminal intercept phase, the KV is guided by an InSb staring FPA (Focal Plane Array) infrared seeker, whose window is protected in the initial flight phase by a clamshell protection shroud."
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Offline Void

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #36 on: December 12, 2012, 10:35:29 am »
George has it. Obviously, thinner atmosphere means less drag. NCADE has the advantage that the IR signature of it's intended target is gigantic.

Aerospikes work. But they have angle of attack limits, if the AOA is too high the shockwave will reattach to the dome and the temperature/pressure will rise even higher then what an unprotected dome would experience. Cooling is another option, but it severely distorts the wavefront. Side-mounted windows and faceted domes are more options.

Even when the seeker is protected there is still a loss of sensitivity from dome heating and distortion from turbulence. Radar by comparison is almost problem-free at very high supersonic and hypersonic speeds. Now, DARPA is currently working on the elaborate optics needed to correct the distortions produced by a low-drag ogive seeker dome and ALON promises much better material properties then current IR domes. Together they could make high-speed IR missile more practical, but that is in the indefinite future.

Offline sferrin

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #37 on: December 12, 2012, 10:49:23 am »
George has it.

Yeah, not so much.  HEDI, AIT, and THAAD all use (or used) IR seekers at very high speeds within the atmosphere.  SM-2 Block III also as a secondary IR seeker (and SM-2 isn't a slouch in the speed department).
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Offline George Allegrezza

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2012, 11:18:45 am »
Yes but remember those are all climbing out of the atmosphere, so the heating problem is a bit less challenging once they're in position for target acquisition.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 11:41:52 am by George Allegrezza »

Offline Avimimus

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2012, 11:44:29 am »
Why not shroud the seeker and then dump the shroud during the last phase? Missile speeds during the terminal homing phase are lower than peak flight speeds and there isn't as much time for heat to build up. Of course, you'd need a command link and possibly a semi-active radar receiver for the BVR shots.

Anyway, I always thought the reason why IR was favoured for anti-satellite duties was due the fact that space provides a dark background with no atmospheric scatter. Acquisition ranges with IR at extreme altitudes easily outpace radar. Is this correct?

Offline SpudmanWP

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #40 on: December 12, 2012, 12:17:03 pm »
That is what NCADE and SDB2 do (discard shroud at the last moment).
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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #41 on: December 12, 2012, 12:52:53 pm »
Why not shroud the seeker and then dump the shroud during the last phase?

That's exactly what THAAD does.  I read once that with the IIR windows it becomes a race between hitting the target and the window failing.  This was with things like HEDI and AIT where the heat loads on the windows were far higher than any AAM would see.
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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #42 on: December 13, 2012, 09:27:15 am »
George has it.

Yeah, not so much.  HEDI, AIT, and THAAD all use (or used) IR seekers at very high speeds within the atmosphere.  SM-2 Block III also as a secondary IR seeker (and SM-2 isn't a slouch in the speed department).

The SM-II has an infrared seeker. On the side.

Altitude is the key. Incredibly.

Here is a nice graph of the relation between Mach number, altitude, and the stress it puts on a dome:


And the relevant chart with the R' values for different kinds of IR dome materials:


And finally, the effect of dome heating on a hypothetical seekers SNR ratio:

Offline sferrin

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #43 on: December 13, 2012, 09:46:32 am »
George has it.

Yeah, not so much.  HEDI, AIT, and THAAD all use (or used) IR seekers at very high speeds within the atmosphere.  SM-2 Block III also as a secondary IR seeker (and SM-2 isn't a slouch in the speed department).

The SM-II has an infrared seeker. On the side.

Altitude is the key. Incredibly.

So what are you implying, that they jettison the IIR seeker if the target is at low altitude?  ::)     Also HEDI was a low alititude ABM with an IR seeker (as was AIT) or do you think CUDA is going to be traveling faster than those did?  And that was 20+ years ago. 
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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #44 on: December 14, 2012, 12:30:32 pm »
So what are you implying, that they jettison the IIR seeker if the target is at low altitude?  ::)     Also HEDI was a low alititude ABM with an IR seeker (as was AIT) or do you think CUDA is going to be traveling faster than those did?  And that was 20+ years ago.

Cooled seeker. Different issue entirely.

Here is a good conference paper that talks about seeker options for the Endoatmospheric LEAP. I've quoted some relevant passages emphasis mine:


Quote from: Page 3
Hypersonic endoatmospheric operation presents significant issues for the use of EO seekers for end game guidance. Aero-optical (AO) effects, which are usually defined as boresight error (BSE), blur and jitter, are not expected to be as serious for an RF seeker. Figure 5 presents a top level description of the hypersonic flowfields surrounding a missile forebody and the effects on the target point spread function.


Quote from: Page 6
Hypersonic operation alsopresents significant performance issues for IR sensors. The shock and boundary layers distort incoming target signals, produce background radiance and elevate window temperatures (which increases background radiance).

Quote from: Page 6
Mitigation techniques range from the use of uncooled windows (trajectory shaping and minimizing exposure time) to active cooling. Active cooling is the most popular technique, but injecting
coolant into the airstream is a major contributor to AO effects
and has a large impact on vehicle size and weight (because of coolant storage and injection hardware).

And I said they don't work as well, not that they don't work at all.

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #45 on: December 14, 2012, 12:55:21 pm »
Nobody said there weren't issues to deal with.  Just that it wasn't an unsolvable problem. 
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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #46 on: December 14, 2012, 11:10:14 pm »
The heating issue does work both ways, the thicker the atmosphere, the hotter the target itself will get. This is particularly advantageous when attempting to track low flying supersonic missiles such as was intended for SM-2 Block IIIB, or a really high speed reentry vehicle that is going to end up outright incandescent to the naked eye. Against aircraft or tactical ballistic missiles its more of a mixed bag.

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #47 on: February 23, 2013, 12:37:54 am »
Additional information from the Air Warfare Symposium from 'The Dew Line Blog"
 
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2013/02/more-details-about-lockheeds-c.html
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Offline lantinian

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #48 on: February 23, 2013, 06:59:07 am »
Not sure why you guys have not posted  this link already here.


http://elementsofpower.blogspot.com/2012/12/the-mysterious-lm-cuda-missile.html


It seams to offer a credible explanation on how the CUDA will be able to achieve its HIT to KILL capability.


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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #49 on: February 23, 2013, 10:50:03 am »
Seemed obvious to me as soon as we saw photos showing the nose section.  Thanks for posting though.

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #50 on: February 23, 2013, 01:06:45 pm »

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #51 on: February 23, 2013, 01:11:27 pm »
Quote
F-22 pilots in particular have been asking for greater beyond visual range weapons capacity since the Raptor first entered operational testing about a decade ago.


I am not an F-22 pilot but I am tired of waiting for the AIM-9X already .... I am now spoiled. I want 2 CUDAs in each of my side bays too  ;D
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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #52 on: February 23, 2013, 03:34:51 pm »
I wonder what the scores would be like at Red Flag if F-22's got to count 14 internal AAMs instead of 8.  B)   And 12 on the F-35. . .
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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #53 on: February 23, 2013, 03:43:11 pm »
Increasing the kill probability and doubling the payload of the blue force main fighter would ..... tripple the amount of paperwork the red force has to fill :D
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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #54 on: February 23, 2013, 03:52:03 pm »
Kind of pokes a hole in the argument sometimes put forward of the Flanker series being better because of their supposed high missile load out.

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #55 on: February 23, 2013, 06:08:37 pm »
Indeed...a 12 A2A missiles load out is impressive.



No sure which Flanker series is this aircraft from as it apparently carries 14 A2A missiles, 3 A2S missiles and 6 Bombs



:D
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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #56 on: February 23, 2013, 11:17:42 pm »
Indeed...a 12 A2A missiles load out is impressive.



No sure which Flanker series is this aircraft from as it apparently carries 14 A2A missiles, 3 A2S missiles and 6 Bombs



 :D
Sorry my friend, but this is not a 'Flanker', but an F-15 Eagle!And I only count 10 x a2a missiles (10 x AMRAAM's)! :o   RegardsPioneer
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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #57 on: February 24, 2013, 12:10:29 am »
So question in reference to the Japanese F-15 in the picture but related to the F-35.
 
With highly degraded air defense and air supremacy just how much can the F-35 carry in relation to 4th G. Meaning can it go to war with internal weapons bays fully loaded and all external hardpoints? And how many external munitions can it carry.
 
I apologize ahead of time because I am sure it is posted somewhere in the 10,000 response F-35 threads but laziness.......I mean efficiently using my time makes it easier just to ask here, thanks!
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Offline lantinian

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #58 on: February 24, 2013, 01:28:06 am »

With highly degraded air defense and air supremacy just how much can the F-35 carry in relation to 4th G. Meaning can it go to war with internal weapons bays fully loaded and all external hardpoints? And how many external munitions can it carry.
Yup, no problem carrying full internal + external loads simultaneously

Hope these help


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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #59 on: February 24, 2013, 01:56:03 am »
lantinian - thanks so much great illustration of its payload caoabilities.
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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #60 on: September 17, 2013, 10:46:16 am »
Update from the Air & Space Conference from AVWeek;
 
http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/asd_09_17_2013_p05-01-617260.xml
 
Also on display from Lockheed an AMRAAM replacement, the 'Supersonic Testbed Risk Reduction' and the High Speed Strike Weapon a weaponized X-51 follow-on.
 
Where are the reporters with pictures? Bill? Anyone?
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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #61 on: September 17, 2013, 02:20:09 pm »
NICE!
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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #62 on: December 02, 2014, 06:26:00 pm »

I found the roots of CUDA, and it was not in the depths of LM.


The earliest info that I could find (don’t worry, it will all tie together in the end) is from Feb2011:
http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2011PSA_AnnualReview/Day1ColDavisFinal.pdf
On page 14 there is a vague entry titled “Small Advanced Capabilities Missile” with production in the “far term”.  No other info in the PDF talks about it.


Next up is another PDF from later in Sep2011 (page 24): 
http://www.ndiagulfcoast.com/events/archive/37th_symposium/Day2/12WilcoxAirArmSymp2011.pdf
No detailed info but it does show SACM (1st use of the acronym) being used on both the F-35 and an AWACS.  Not only does it show it shooting at a fighter, but also at in inbound missile (even from the AWACS).





Not much else was found till April 2014 (page8):
http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2014SET/Wilcox.pdf
This is what it said about the goals of SACM
• Flexible hyper-agile airframes, high impulse propulsion, affordable wide field of view seeker, anti-jam guidance integrated fuze, aim-able kinetic and non-kinetic effects
• Increased A/C loadout ---> increased sortie effectiveness
• Increased Pwe with kinematic advantage & increased lethality


Finally, there is another PDF from Nov 2014 (page 18) where the tie to CUDA and the DARPA ADI (Air Dominance Initiative) program is made. 
http://www.ndiagulfcoast.com/events/archive/40th_Symposium/AFRL_WilcoxAAS2014.pdf
Here is what it said
•  High Load-Out
•  AMRAAM Complement
•  Counter 4th /5th  Gen A/C & Cruise Missiles
•  Low Cost
•  Working Collaboration with DARPA under ADI 
There is a CGI graphic on page 18 showing what is a dead-ringer of the CUDA in the bay of the F-35.





Now it makes sense where the Dec2013 AW Article LM said:
"Both Cuda and SSTRR are being supported by independent research and development money and are being pushed as concepts of interest under the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency’s Air Dominance Initiative project."
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Offline Creative

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #63 on: December 10, 2014, 07:37:15 pm »
Don't know if it is official artwork or not. Here is where I stumbled on it.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://alternathistory.org.ua/o-sozdanii-lockheed-martin-mnogotselevoy-rakety-cuda&prev=search

...edit. OK it actually might just be unofficial artwork.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 07:39:03 pm by Creative »

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #64 on: December 11, 2014, 06:17:01 pm »
Spud, I had shared the first document over at Keypub's F-35 section (iirc) a few years ago. Also, from the DARPA boss interview, she was quite clear that some of the preliminary efforts under the ADI would begin to show up in the budgets post 2015 or so.

Here is a Link:(21 min onwards)

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #65 on: December 11, 2014, 07:11:09 pm »
What is the X plane attack helicopter program he mentions?

Also, interesting about her mention of space assets for air dominance, I'm thinking space based radar able to provide air to air targeting to stealth aircraft that can then remain 'electronically silent'?
« Last Edit: December 11, 2014, 07:21:42 pm by bobbymike »
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Offline marauder2048

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #66 on: December 11, 2014, 07:26:09 pm »
What is the X plane attack helicopter program he mentions?

Also, interesting about her mention of space assets for air dominance, I'm thinking space based radar able to provide air to air targeting to stealth aircraft that can then remain 'electronically silent'?

Our good friend, Quellish mentioned using stealth aircraft as bi-static receivers for space-based radars over in the LRS-B thread.

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #67 on: December 11, 2014, 07:43:19 pm »
What is the X plane attack helicopter program he mentions?

Also, interesting about her mention of space assets for air dominance, I'm thinking space based radar able to provide air to air targeting to stealth aircraft that can then remain 'electronically silent'?

Gen Mike Hostage mentioned Space assets as well in his interview to Colin Clark/breaking defense:

Quote
Allies are a key part of the Red Flag exercises, especially as the F-35 becomes the plane flown by most of our closest allies, from Britain to Israel to Australia and beyond. But the toughest, most realistic exercises at Red Flag occur when it’s only American pilots flying against each other.

During those Red Flag-3 exercises they integrate space and cyber weapons into the fight, including those the F-35 possesses. Those capabilities make are “so effective that we have to be very careful that in a real world scenario we don’t hurt ourselves allowing them to play.”

http://breakingdefense.com/2014/06/gen-mike-hostage-on-the-f-35-no-growlers-needed-when-war-starts/3/

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #68 on: December 11, 2014, 10:59:47 pm »

During those Red Flag-3 exercises they integrate space and cyber weapons into the fight, including those the F-35 possesses. Those capabilities make are “so effective that we have to be very careful that in a real world scenario we don’t hurt ourselves allowing them to play.”




If someone were to look at what was overhead during those (and other) exercises, that someone could reach interesting conclusions about present and emerging capabilities. That may also inform someone as to why some potential adversaries are making particular development and procurement investments today.


Unrelated to that, yes DoD really *really* wants to have space based assets replacing platforms like the E-3 and JSTARS within the next 20 years. Space-based radar for air and ground surveillance offers capabilities that current platforms are unable to offer.

Offline TomS

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #69 on: December 12, 2014, 04:01:09 am »

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #70 on: December 14, 2014, 06:24:33 pm »
Deleted
« Last Edit: December 14, 2014, 06:30:47 pm by bring_it_on »
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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #71 on: February 22, 2015, 01:09:01 am »

During those Red Flag-3 exercises they integrate space and cyber weapons into the fight, including those the F-35 possesses. Those capabilities make are “so effective that we have to be very careful that in a real world scenario we don’t hurt ourselves allowing them to play.”




If someone were to look at what was overhead during those (and other) exercises, that someone could reach interesting conclusions about present and emerging capabilities. That may also inform someone as to why some potential adversaries are making particular development and procurement investments today.


Unrelated to that, yes DoD really *really* wants to have space based assets replacing platforms like the E-3 and JSTARS within the next 20 years. Space-based radar for air and ground surveillance offers capabilities that current platforms are unable to offer.

Red Flag video I had no idea of the detailed fidelity of the tracking and monitoring systems, which they say includes space assets. Very cool stuff





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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #72 on: September 15, 2015, 06:01:40 am »
What does the "wide field of view seeker" mean in the context on radar guided missiles? AESA?

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #73 on: January 24, 2016, 06:01:06 am »
Quote
Raytheon awarded research contract for their version of CUDA
The U.S. Air Force Research Laboratory has awarded Raytheon a $14 million contract to research on two concepts for next-generation, air-launched, tactical missiles.

The Small Advanced Capability Missile (SACM) concept will enable future fighters to have high air-to-air load-out using a small size air frame. The project is similar to Lockheed Martin’s CUDA program which will double the number air-to-air missiles carried by the company’s two stealth fighters using a shorter missile.
Raytheon is now the third company to work on the Miniature Self-Defense Munition (MSDM) program with the award of this contract. The MSDM aims to give fighters a self-defense capability against incoming missiles by destroying it with a direct hit using the munition.
Source: http://aviationweek.com/awin/lockheed-reveals-new-air-launched-missile-concepts
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Offline SpudmanWP

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #74 on: January 24, 2016, 07:45:10 pm »
That's just an R&D contract, not an SDD one.
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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #75 on: January 24, 2016, 08:38:34 pm »
Their isn't a program of record, most likely just further refinement and perhaps a demonstration effort to support concept development. Lockheed can afford to do this on their own, in addition to Boeing if they think they feel that it is worth pursuing.
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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #76 on: January 25, 2016, 01:49:37 am »

During those Red Flag-3 exercises they integrate space and cyber weapons into the fight, including those the F-35 possesses. Those capabilities make are “so effective that we have to be very careful that in a real world scenario we don’t hurt ourselves allowing them to play.”




If someone were to look at what was overhead during those (and other) exercises, that someone could reach interesting conclusions about present and emerging capabilities. That may also inform someone as to why some potential adversaries are making particular development and procurement investments today.


Unrelated to that, yes DoD really *really* wants to have space based assets replacing platforms like the E-3 and JSTARS within the next 20 years. Space-based radar for air and ground surveillance offers capabilities that current platforms are unable to offer.

Red Flag video I had no idea of the detailed fidelity of the tracking and monitoring systems, which they say includes space assets. Very cool stuff



Those don't look like real time tracking, the rendering looks pre-calculated.

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #77 on: May 17, 2016, 10:48:38 am »
Interesting that CUDA seems to have shown up again at Sea Air Space '16
via James Drew

« Last Edit: May 17, 2016, 11:06:23 am by flateric »
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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #78 on: June 20, 2016, 10:11:29 pm »
More Capability, More Capacity

—Will Skowronski6/21/2016

​The Air Force’s primary air-to-air missile will soon require recapitalization, Maj. Gen. Jerry Harris, Air Combat Command’s vice commander, informed lawmakers Saturday. In a prepared statement to the House Armed Services Tactical Air and Land Forces Subcommittee, Harris said the service’s medium-range AIM-120 is increasingly vulnerable to counter-measures and limits the effectiveness of the service’s fifth-generation aircraft. He noted the AIM-120 also has insufficient range when compared to newer, long-range adversary missiles. But missile capacity, not just capability, is also a concern. “Our aircraft lose effectiveness when they run out of missiles,” Harris said in his written statement. “As we look to the future, increased aircraft payloads and deeper magazines will be a driving requirement for our next generation aircraft.” In the recently released “Air Superiority 2030 Flight Plan,” Air Force planners included stand-off arsenal planes in a mix of systems that they believe will be required to maintain air superiority in the future. (For more on Air Superiority 2030 read the Aperture column in the May issue of Air Force Magazine.)
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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #79 on: June 21, 2016, 02:25:15 am »
They have been disciplined enough to fund programs to address both longer ranged, faster MRAAM's (T3), and the CUDA class missiles. I think there is ultimately a need to pursue both, possibly concurrently.
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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #80 on: July 12, 2016, 06:45:16 am »
Hawk Carlisle (one of the greatest general's names ever) says next-gen AAM soon to be a program of record:

http://www.airforcemag.com/DRArchive/Pages/2016/July%202016/July%2012%202016/NEXTAAM.aspx

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #81 on: July 12, 2016, 07:08:20 am »
FY18 looks like tough but it could be worked into the FY19 request.
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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #82 on: July 12, 2016, 08:31:20 am »
Hawk Carlisle (one of the greatest general's names ever) says next-gen AAM soon to be a program of record:

http://www.airforcemag.com/DRArchive/Pages/2016/July%202016/July%2012%202016/NEXTAAM.aspx

Seems a little muddled.  He says they need an AIM-120 replacement but also that it needs to be smaller.  I don't think CUDA was ever planned to have AIM-120D range.  Maybe CUDA and a 2-stage variant?  ???
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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #83 on: July 12, 2016, 09:01:08 am »
I think the concept of using a family to cover the entire mission set is actually a smart decision from a development stand point..

Quote
The Supersonic Testbed Risk Reduction (SSTRR) represents work on a future weapon in the same size class as the AIM-120 Amraam. The company is carrying out trade studies involving air-breathing and rocket propulsion, including multi-pulse motors, hit-to-kill technology and different guidance technologies. “Everyone wants everything,” a Lockheed Martin engineer explains. “If everyone in the room is crying, we’ve got it about right.”

On show for the first time at AFA is a model of Lockheed Martin’s Cuda, a so-called “Halfraam” weapon about half as long as an Amraam and compact enough to fit six missiles into each bay of the F-35 or F-22. Cuda draws on the hit-to-kill technology used on the PAC-3 missile, is designed to have a radar seeker and has both movable tails and forward attitude control motors for high agility. The company is not disclosing Cuda’s design range, but one variation of the concept is a two-stage missile with a similar total length to Amraam, presumably with the goal of covering a wide range envelope with a single missile design.

http://aviationweek.com/awin/lockheed-reveals-new-air-launched-missile-concepts

It would be interesting to see how Raytheon approaches this since they have their very successful AMRAAM program to sustain and to ensure that any successor covers their entire customer base, not all of which would be operating 5th generation aircraft. They are working on a 3 year DOD funded CUDA like concept as well. The Israel also has a Hit to Kill missile in their future based on the Stunner and that would no doubt be something that they look to integrate with the F-35.

Interestingly, asking for an AMRAAM replacement seems to be fashionable for outgoing ACC bosses. I remember General Hostage echoing similar sentiments close to his retirement. So far the USAF and USN have successfully pushed it down the road. The 2030 study does inspire some confidence that they'll finally pick up from where the T3 left off more so now that with the Aim-9XII, and the Aim-120D online they have very little in terms of a Program of record for something in the 2020's (besides the Aim-9X Blk II+) .

The Meteor program is already exploring plans to switch to an AESA seeker to better cover the A2G mission so it seems quite likely that by 2030, the European partner nations could build something that is similar to the JDRADM in concept if not capability and given that F-35 integration would have occurred by then, it would put serious pressure on the US OEM's if they want to stay competitive. A faster, more maneuverable missile that addresses magazine depth is a great way to maintain an edge, at least on 5th generation platforms.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2016, 10:24:48 am by bring_it_on »
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Offline bobbymike

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #84 on: July 12, 2016, 10:12:13 am »
Hawk Carlisle (one of the greatest general's names ever) says next-gen AAM soon to be a program of record:

http://www.airforcemag.com/DRArchive/Pages/2016/July%202016/July%2012%202016/NEXTAAM.aspx

Seems a little muddled.  He says they need an AIM-120 replacement but also that it needs to be smaller.  I don't think CUDA was ever planned to have AIM-120D range.  Maybe CUDA and a 2-stage variant?  ???
With all the talk lately of advanced nano-energetics maybe future AMRAAM with have longer legs and CUDA with have AMRAAM range??
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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #85 on: February 07, 2017, 06:13:01 am »
Recent comments by Tim Cahill, Vice-President, Air and Missile Defense Systems, Lockheed Martin Missiles and Fire Control to Jane's Defence Weekly (Feb.2017).
 

Quote
CUDA is at an earlier stage of development, but it is coming along "really well", Cahill noted. "It is defined, modelled, and we are now working hard on the prototype airframes and on the seeker concepts," he said. As the threats become more complex, Cahill added, having highly manoeuvrable hit-to-kill systems in a smaller profile will prove particularly valuable, especially at close range.

"All of our hit-to-kill developments leverage the basic PAC-3 technology and capability - that combination of seeker technology, advanced attitude control systems, and robust airframe that can turn on a dime and follow a rapidly manoeuvering target - and optimise that combination in a smaller profile," Cahill explained. "With CUDA, you're talking about a PAC-3 capability with a front-end sensor the size of a coffee cup; with MHTK it's even smaller. So we're essentially taking the PAC-3 capability and miniaturising it across all of this range of interceptors."

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Offline thefrecklepuny

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #86 on: February 07, 2017, 02:56:15 pm »
Hawk Carlisle (one of the greatest general's names ever) says next-gen AAM soon to be a program of record:

http://www.airforcemag.com/DRArchive/Pages/2016/July%202016/July%2012%202016/NEXTAAM.aspx

Seems a little muddled.  He says they need an AIM-120 replacement but also that it needs to be smaller.  I don't think CUDA was ever planned to have AIM-120D range.  Maybe CUDA and a 2-stage variant?  ???
With all the talk lately of advanced nano-energetics maybe future AMRAAM with have longer legs and CUDA with have AMRAAM range??

Perhaps make it modular with plug-in fuel and rocket modules?

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #87 on: February 10, 2017, 11:14:43 pm »
It's sound like a smart idea if there are two missiles (AMRAAM size and Halframm) and all they differ by is the amount of rocket fuel, however I don't thinks it's practical.

IMHO, creating 2 unique missiles is the best approach

A long range weapon (like the one the Russians and Chinese have) also has a big warhead as I doubt you can take down an AWAKS with a single hit to kill missile. I also believe the flight / maneuvering profile of both missiles will be different requiring a different propulsion and flight controls.

I do think it would make sence for both missiles to have A2G capability

I am curious, in the case of F-22 if there are any proposals to somehow fit 2 CUDA class weapons into each side bay
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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #88 on: February 11, 2017, 02:55:50 am »
I wonder what sort of altitudes, ranges and profiles we can expect if we bring back the plan for an ALHTK with a focus on providing longer ranged networked attack options from legacy aircraft further behind. It is still a sub 1000 lb. 11 inch diameter interceptor with a dual pulse motor and a versatile seeker. It already comes with an X band data link and is already in volume production.
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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #89 on: September 21, 2018, 04:23:11 am »
USAF Funds Lockheed’s ‘Half-Raam’ Missile Flights



Quote
The U.S. Air Force has funded a flight test demonstration program for Lockheed Martin’s Cuda air-to-air missile, pushing the concept forward more than five years after it first appeared, the company ...

The flight tests, funded by the Air Force Research Laboratory (AFRL), will evaluate how the Cuda compares to the range and terminal phase maneuverability of the Raytheon AIM-120 Advanced Medium Range Air-To-Air Missile (Amraam), says Frank St. John, executive vice-president of Lockheed’s Missiles and Fire Control business area.


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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #90 on: September 21, 2018, 04:47:35 am »
AWESOME.  Now if they just come up with a variant with a booster with an OAL about the same as AIM-120.  :o
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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #91 on: September 21, 2018, 06:49:19 am »
AWESOME.  Now if they just come up with a variant with a booster with an OAL about the same as AIM-120.  :o
There has been some advances in energetics here's hoping they get to AMRAAM range in a smaller package.
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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #92 on: September 21, 2018, 07:16:49 am »
USAF Funds Lockheed’s ‘Half-Raam’ Missile Flights

Your Link is malformed.  The opening URL tag is un-closed and should have a closing ] in the middle of "flightsUSAF" like "flights]USAF".  I posed the original code and corrected link below.

Code: [Select]
[url=http://aviationweek.com/awindefense/usaf-funds-lockheed-s-half-raam-missile-flightsUSAF Funds Lockheed’s ‘Half-Raam’ Missile Flights[/url]
USAF Funds Lockheed’s ‘Half-Raam’ Missile Flights
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 07:19:52 am by SpudmanWP »
WE4-45-1-08     OMHIWDMB
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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #93 on: September 21, 2018, 08:35:07 am »
It's behind a paywall anyway (that even a standard AvWeek subscription login doesn't get past  :'( ).
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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #94 on: November 30, 2018, 04:37:05 pm »
Cuda Lockheed's M-SHORAD tested :

Lockheed Martin conducts initial flight test of new M-SHORAD Future Interceptor

Quote
Lockheed Martin Missiles and Fire Control on 14 November conducted a successful initial ballistic flight test of its new M-SHORAD Future Interceptor from a Stryker Maneuver SHORAD Launcher (MSL) at the White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico.

The M-SHORAD Future Interceptor leverages Lockheed Martin and government technology investment in a 6 ft-class hit-to-kill interceptor designed to defeat unmanned aircraft systems (UASs), fixed- and rotary-wing aircraft, and cruise missiles.

"The 5 inch diameter interceptor fits in the same envelope as the AGM-114L Longbow Hellfire missile currently being integrated on the MSL for the US Army's Stryker-based interim manoeuvre SHORAD [short-range air-defence] capability, and provides significantly more range and manoeuvrability," a Lockheed Martin spokesperson told Jane's .

"The internally funded test objectives were to demonstrate key technologies, vehicle stability, and range. The Interceptor performance matched our predictions," the spokesperson said.

"The driver for this development is how to address air-breathing threats for US Army manoeuvre forces beyond its current Stinger/Stryker capability," Tim Cahill, Vice President, Integrated Air and Missile Defense, at Lockheed Martin Missiles and Fire Control told Jane's . "We've designed a medium-size hit-to-kill for what we believe will be the [US] Army's range requirement for an M-SHORAD missile. The imperative of M-SHORAD is range and capability in the size of a missile that is manageable and affordable; Stinger is performance limited, other missiles are too long. So I believe it should be a hit-to-kill missile for M-SHORAD, and we will follow the PAC-3 MSE formula for both future land and sea applications," he added.

Lockheed Martin has not disclosed additional specific detail on the M-SHORAD Future Interceptor, including its interception range, weight, and homing guidance.


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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #95 on: November 30, 2018, 07:23:20 pm »
Is there any chance that they're using the CUDA mock-up just to give a conceptual idea of what they're aiming to build? Or seeing as they've performed a flight test, would that indicate that CUDA really is being developed (perhaps as different design variants) for both M-SHORAD and SACM? I imagine that if they're able to use the same or a very similar missile in both programs this could accelerate development by providing two channels of funding.

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #96 on: December 01, 2018, 05:27:18 am »
There is a chance although the image I have posted is from the full version of the Jane's article. I believe it was taken at AUSA 2018. Given the AvWeek article stating that they are being funded by the USAF for CUDA demonstrations, it makes sense for Lockheed to internally test it for the M-SHORAD mission given its size and the fact that it would be very well suited for the role. It could also possibly allow them to put the missile in production (if selected) earlier given that M-SHORAD investment is being increased by the Army.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2018, 05:43:03 am by bring_it_on »
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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #97 on: December 01, 2018, 12:17:04 pm »
The comment about fitting in the same dimensiknal envelope as Longbow Hellfire also raises the potential to use this on LCS using modified VL Hellfire launcher.

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #98 on: December 01, 2018, 05:28:52 pm »
The comment about fitting in the same dimensiknal envelope as Longbow Hellfire also raises the potential to use this on LCS using modified VL Hellfire launcher.

Interesting that the diameter is only 5".  I'd thought the general consensus was that it was 6".
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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #99 on: December 01, 2018, 06:44:16 pm »
AWESOME.  Now if they just come up with a variant with a booster with an OAL about the same as AIM-120.  :o

"The company is not disclosing Cuda’s design range, but one variation of the concept is a two-stage
missile with a similar total length to Amraam, presumably with the goal of covering a wide range
envelope with a single missile design."

See:

http://aviationweek.com/awin/lockheed-reveals-new-air-launched-missile-concepts


Sounds similar to the LREW:

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/15692/the-pentagon-is-quietly-developing-an-next-generation-long-range-air-to-air-missile

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #100 on: December 01, 2018, 07:10:21 pm »
The USAF LREW study contract was awarded to Raytheon though under the Agile Acquisition Program effort (of which LREW was one award) contracts were awarded to Lockheed, MBDA, Aerojet for a whole host of programs ( not linked to LREW).
« Last Edit: December 01, 2018, 07:14:13 pm by bring_it_on »
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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #101 on: December 02, 2018, 04:46:14 am »
I doubt a hit-to-kill missile can be trusted against cruise missiles. They're really small targets.

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #102 on: December 02, 2018, 06:28:29 am »
I doubt a hit-to-kill missile can be trusted against cruise missiles. They're really small targets.


For the point defense mission, I'd say let them demonstrate effectiveness just as the IDF let the Stunner prove itself out against cruise missiles during trials. A lot has likely happened in terms of advancements when it comes to HTK since the PAC-3 was developed. It is also possible that they arrive to some sort of LE like solution and not go with an end product that is completely devoid of a warhead.
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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #103 on: December 02, 2018, 06:42:41 am »
I doubt a hit-to-kill missile can be trusted against cruise missiles. They're really small targets.

relatively less maneuverable cruise missile is easier than jet fighters,

though these are smaller than the jets

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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #104 on: December 02, 2018, 06:44:55 am »
I guess out in the open (area defense) they tend to stress sensors and seekers, particularly so when they are flying really low. However, for M-SHORAD and SHORAD the use case is probably at short tactical ranges and leveraging capable short-medium range radars so that is less of an issue.
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Re: Lockheed Martin CUDA Air-to-Air Missile
« Reply #105 on: December 02, 2018, 06:49:36 am »
I doubt a hit-to-kill missile can be trusted against cruise missiles. They're really small targets.

They're quite a bit larger than an RV, which they've been hitting with HTK weapons for decades. 

PAC-3 vs cruise missile 17 years ago:



PAC-3 vs manuevering Pershing II RV

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