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Author Topic: T-14 Armata - new gen Russian tank  (Read 97590 times)

Offline jsport

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Re: T-14 Armata - new gen Russian tank
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2012, 05:57:31 am »
I take it from these models that we can infer the following:

- In response, higher value vehicles should sacrifice ammunition loads (combat persistence) for defensive capabilities. These will have an anti-air and anti-missile/anti-bomb capability (high RoF 30mm cannon, 45mm fragmentation rounds, active missiles defenses etc.) and some of these anti-air/anti-projectile vehicles will also happen to be MBT or IFV hunters.

we are listening?

This is a fairly incredible leap of logic.

Offline HeavyG

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Re: T-14 Armata - new gen Russian tank
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2012, 09:12:50 am »

Here is a link to an article at DefenseUpdate.com about the new Armata tank:
http://defense-update.com/20120810_russia-plans-to-field-the-t-99-a-radically-new-main-battle-tank-by-2015.html


I've also attached a couple of pictures from that article.

Offline Sea Skimmer

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Re: T-14 Armata - new gen Russian tank
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2012, 10:48:33 pm »
Those CGI images were made by a Russian magazine and claimed to show the T-95 when first published. They certainly are not new.

Offline Trident

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Re: T-14 Armata - new gen Russian tank
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2012, 06:32:32 am »
About the Gatling - like some, I find it a bit hard to believe that it's a 30mm but then, how do we know that it is? If the tank isn't outsize (and going by the size of the crew hatches and vision devices, I don't think it is - it's merely modelled to a different scale) the gun doesn't look big enough to be a 30mm to me. Although the latter is merely gut feeling, a smaller caliber (23 or even 7.62mm) might make it less of a leap from conventional wisdom.

Offline Avimimus

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Re: T-14 Armata - new gen Russian tank
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2012, 08:52:21 am »
About the Gatling - like some, I find it a bit hard to believe that it's a 30mm but then, how do we know that it is? If the tank isn't outsize (and going by the size of the crew hatches and vision devices, I don't think it is - it's merely modelled to a different scale) the gun doesn't look big enough to be a 30mm to me. Although the latter is merely gut feeling, a smaller caliber (23 or even 7.62mm) might make it less of a leap from conventional wisdom.

Yes, I wish I could think along similar lines :D

Barrel lengths:
Gsh-6-23 is 1400mm
Gsh-6-30 is 2040mm

Note that the GShG-5.45, GShG-7.92 and Yak-b are all four barrel weapons. However, while we cannot rule out the possibility that a more reliable six-barrel version has been developed, these guns have considerably shorter barrels.

It is difficult to estimate sizes from such a picture. However, a rough estimate makes the tank somewhere around 10 metres long and 3.5 metres wide - so, normal sized. The main gun should be at least 6000mm barrel length - however, it appears to be somewhat longer (the barrel shroud might be involved). So, it could easily be either a 23mm or 30mm weapon (25% difference in length).

The reason I assumed a 30mm weapon was the need for variable rate of fire (provided by the AK-306) and the move toward a standard of 30mm ammunition (for both logistic and ballistic reasons). However, a smaller caliber would mean more ammunition and a higher permissible rate of fire!

Offline Trident

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Re: T-14 Armata - new gen Russian tank
« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2012, 11:25:06 am »
Yeah, I am aware of the barrel numbers which is why the first thing I did was to look carefully at the images to see if the list of possibilities could be narrowed down somewhat on that basis. However, I came to the conclusion that it's impossible to tell from the available material - until we get better photos or written information it can't be considered confirmed.


That said, I do agree that the GShG-7.62 can probably be ruled out on the basis of length, looking at the pictures again. BTW, hull length for a typical modern MBT is more like 7 to 8m.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2012, 12:07:36 pm by Trident »

Offline Avimimus

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Re: T-14 Armata - new gen Russian tank
« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2012, 11:20:19 am »
Well, the margin of error in my calculations is about that much!  ;D

To be fair, as well, there is an alternative explanation - Russian's like big guns. A doctrine of better long-range ballistics and larger HE rounds... Why would we be seeing this now? Engineering may have reduced gun weights. Another explanation is that improved sensors means that a target can be engaged and destroyed with a more limited expenditure of ammunition.

However, this would explain the up-gunned IFVs - putting a six barrel gun on a tank is almost certainly an air-defense measure.

Offline Avimimus

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Re: T-14 Armata - new gen Russian tank
« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2013, 01:32:18 pm »
Does anyone have a higher resolution photo that can confirm whether or not this mystery weapon is not in fact an AGS-57?


*edit* Found a better photo - the AGS-57 is on the left side of the model's turret. So it is carrying a multi-barrelled gun on the right side... bizarre.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 04:12:56 am by Avimimus »

Offline Kiltonge

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Re: T-14 Armata - new gen Russian tank
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2014, 05:55:14 am »
I've been thinking that the rotary cannon might not be as profligate on ammunition as suggested.

The gas-powered guns have much faster spin-up than externally-powered units.  A Gsh-6-23 can fire ~60 rounds and cease before an M61A is up to speed ( 0.4 seconds ).  A more conservative burst might be 20 rounds in < 0.15 seconds giving a dense pattern of AP for consumption of 7 kg of ammunition*.

So if this is a defensive installation designed to fire FCS-controlled restricted bursts then ammunition consumption might not be excessive.

* considering that a 125mm APFS-DS round weights about 20 kg, three bursts-weight of 23mm seems to me to be a good trade-off for antimissile protection
« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 05:58:53 am by Kiltonge »

Offline ynm

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Re: T-14 Armata - new gen Russian tank
« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2014, 04:53:04 am »
If it was me, I would chose +35mm air burst as self defense gun.

The 20 - 30mm rotary cannon is a waste of weight and ammunition, if you rely on direct hit to destroy incoming projectile (hence the high rate of fire of the rotary cannon).
7.62mm to 12.7mm are better candidate because there is not much difference in a direct hit between 7.62 or 30mm (the incoming projectile will be destroyed in both cases). Even the thickest arty shell would be penetrated by 7.62 AP
But smaller caliber means much more ammunition, much lighter gun, and faster reaction time (important on land warfare and close range engagement)

So, if the self defense system neutralizes most incoming threats, what is the shift in the future? I guess large caliber APFSDS will be the choice because it is very hard to shot down. Air force will be useless against armor since most bombs and missiles will be shot down at +100m.

Solution maybe very large EFP and maybe concrete (KE) bomb and hypersonic KE missile?

Offline Triton

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Re: T-14 Armata - new gen Russian tank
« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2015, 08:16:09 am »
Can't verify the accuracy of this article, so posting in the Bar:

"Russia’s new Armata tank on Army 2015 shopping list"
Published time: February 21, 2015 14:43

Source:
http://rt.com/news/234363-armata-tracked-armored-platform/

Quote
Russian troops are receiving beta versions of a future armored tracked platform that could usher in the 5th generation conventional land tank, heavy APC, artillery and missile launcher and possibly fully robotic assault armored vehicle.

After five years of development, the Uralvagonzavod Research and Production Corporation has finalized manufacture of the first batch of Armata tanks and heavy personnel carriers. They have been included in Russia’s 2015 defense order, TASS said.

Reportedly, 20 units have already been manufactured and issued to troops for hands-on training.

The exact characteristics and appearance of the platform remain classified, though this might soon change as the new vehicles are on the verge of taking part in the Victory Day Parade on Red Square, May 9 this year.

A better chance to see these innovative battle vehicles of the future might be given to experts and public alike during Russia Arms Expo 2015 (September 9-12, Nizhniy Tagil).

The new Armata armored tracked platform has reportedly combined and assimilated all the last decade’s major developments and innovations in battle vehicle design and construction.

The platform’s chief tank (T-14) sports an unmanned remotely controlled turret armed with a brand new 125 mm 2A82-1M smoothbore cannon. Its muzzle energy is greater than one of the world’s previously considered best cannons: the German Leopard-2 Rheinmetall 120 mm gun.

The 125 mm gun has 15-20 percent improved accuracy and its rolling fire angular dispersion has improved 1.7 times.

According to Russian media, the Armata tank might also come with a specially developed 152 mm gun, the most powerful ever cannon to be mounted on a main battle tank.

The tank’s turret will also carry a 30 mm sub-caliber ranging gun to deal with various targets, including low-flying aerial targets, such as attack planes and helicopters.

A 12.5 mm turret-mounted heavy machine gun is reportedly capable of taking out incoming projectiles, such as anti-tank missiles. It’s capable of neutralizing shells approaching at speeds of up to 3,000 meters per second.

The tank’s crew is securely enclosed in a multi-layer armored capsule separated from the ammunition container. The vehicle is fully computerized and only needs two servicemen to operate it. Each can also deploy the tank’s weapon systems.

The tank’s targeting is reportedly done with an active-phased array antenna and a large variety of other sensors.

The Armata platform allegedly has a fully mechanized electric transmission, powered by a 1,200 HP diesel engine. For greater efficiency, maintenance and repair schedules have been extended.

Within its blueprint, the Armata armored vehicle has the potential to evolve into a fully robotic battle vehicle.

According to preliminary estimates, 2,300 units are required for the Russian army.


Offline Jemiba

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Re: T-14 Armata - new gen Russian tank
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2015, 08:39:31 am »
Can't verify the accuracy of this article, so posting in the Bar: ...

Most of the other posts neither. But it seems, that there really is a project going on,
so we shouldn't start two separate threads and it seem to fit other information in
this thread, I think.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Avimimus

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Re: T-14 Armata - new gen Russian tank
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2015, 08:55:29 am »
So, if this most recent report is to be believed it is a ?new? 12.5mm machine gun for point-defense, a single-barrelled 30mm autocannon and a 125mm smoothbore. So, no AGS grenade launcher... on the other hand the official model appeared to have an AGS and a cannon calibre multibarrelled weapon.


It is interesting that an anti-missile gun *seems* to be supported by this newspaper report ...I hope they haven't read this thread?! It could just be an artist reinterpreting the official concept model.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2015, 12:23:19 pm by Avimimus »

Offline Triton

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Re: T-14 Armata - new gen Russian tank
« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2015, 09:43:19 am »
Can't verify the accuracy of this article, so posting in the Bar: ...

Most of the other posts neither. But it seems, that there really is a project going on,
so we shouldn't start two separate threads and it seem to fit other information in
this thread, I think.

Fair enough. I am not familiar enough with the project to judge whether this is fan art and propaganda from Russia Today, or if the renderings and descriptions are accurate.

Offline stealthflanker

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Re: T-14 Armata - new gen Russian tank
« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2015, 01:40:36 am »
So, if this most recent report is to be believed it is a ?new? 12.5mm machine gun for point-defense, a single-barrelled 30mm autocannon and a 125mm smoothbore. So, no AGS grenade launcher... on the other hand the official model appeared to have an AGS and a cannon calibre multibarrelled weapon.


It is interesting that an anti-missile gun *seems* to be supported by this newspaper report ...I hope they haven't read this thread?! It could just be an artist reinterpreting the official concept model.

Well it seems the report got some "over interpretation" Mixed in.. That anti missile gun looks like one of it. Kinda hard to believe.

The phased array radar however looks legit.. Can't really have working Active protection system without ESA radar. Won't be surprised if it also double as range finding system to engage target.