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Author Topic: Future Combat Air System (FCAS)  (Read 42994 times)

Offline flateric

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Re: Future Combat Air System (FCAS)
« Reply #180 on: August 20, 2018, 05:04:46 am »
It's certainly a big hint as to what people think the new fighter should be called, when it's eventually defined and designed

But...well
« Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 05:07:08 am by flateric »
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Offline Hood

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Re: Future Combat Air System (FCAS)
« Reply #181 on: August 20, 2018, 05:38:47 am »
Jackonicko,
You misread me. Of course FCAS will be a system with several component parts, that is plainly obvious. But the core platform will be a manned fighter/strike aircraft, that is the node of the airborne system and that is where the industry focus is. Air Vice Marshal Rochelle was quoted as saying of FCAS says: “It’s a platform within a systems of systems which is important in the future... There’s always a system within a system. The question for us is: how far do we go further forward in the conceptual ideas and what is the next natural evolution of those concepts?”. Whatever the Tempest mockup eventually emerges at will be with platform around which FCAS will sit.

As Gavin Williamson said "Team Tempest's activities will span work across 50-60 national demonstrations, covering aspects such as low-observability, advanced sensors, propulsion and future cockpit design, contained within an existing FCAS technology initiative." That's a lot of R&D work and they can't do everything, so it makes sense to bring in smaller partners for particular demonstrator models. I agree it makes sense for Team Tempest to have an oversight of all the technical aspects.

FCAS started in 2011 to identify and research unmanned technologies. In 2014 under the Lancaster House talks it became an Anglo-French programme, the government allocating £120M of its £200M unmanned research budget for the joint study phase designed to build on experience with Taranis and Neuron (£80M also went to further work on both). In March 2016 £1.54 billion was committed to a full scale demonstrator programme due to start at the end of 2017, with a first flight planned for 2025 and an operational system during the 2030s. But the full scale demonstrator never happened for whatever reason and Dassault by early 2018 were looking at Airbus' fighter programme instead.

It seems to me to be no coincidence that as France and Germany began studying a manned Eurofighter/Rafale replacement for the 2040s and BAE Systems began to look at its diminishing production line at Warton, that suddenly FCAS stopped being a purely unmanned technology demonstrator but has grown to encompass a manned Eurofighter replacement as well, including technologies required for future cockpits etc. FCAS has now also absorbed Rolls-Royce's future engine work which their chief engineer for future defence programmes Conrad Banks in Februrary 2018 stated was for futuristic programmes in general rather than FCAS-specific work.
In March 2018 Team Tempest was formed to look into FCAS concept, some 7 years after FCAS began, indicating whatever original concepts there were have been reviewed and revised. In July Flightglobal revealed BAE Systems had received a single-source award with 12 month contract for unspecified FCAS work, we can only conjecture what that might be.

FCAS still seems quite undefined, or at least everyone is holding their cards to their chest. Its clear that as it has evolved FCAS has had various national and multinational threads. If the UK does join one of the European programmes on offer its highly likely that the scope of FCAS will change again.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 05:47:09 am by Hood »

Offline flateric

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Re: Future Combat Air System (FCAS)
« Reply #182 on: August 22, 2018, 12:46:41 pm »
This could be the UK cranked delta version of the planform Dassault has been publicising in the past couple of years.
Slightly better versions and some more stuff on BAE Systems cranked kite FCAS configuration (it was BAE Systems pavilion at FIA'16 for a note)


« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 01:46:53 pm by flateric »
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline mrmalaya

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Re: Future Combat Air System (FCAS)
« Reply #183 on: August 23, 2018, 04:00:57 am »
Great find flateric!

The more I look at that model, the more it is apparent that it is the same as the French one, except the structure related to the British approach to the intake and engine.

Offline flateric

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Re: Future Combat Air System (FCAS)
« Reply #184 on: August 24, 2018, 04:34:30 pm »
For a note: all FCAS/SCAF images/video galleries are gone from Dassault core site.
Just a couple of press-releases left.
There are FCAS interviews still at Dassault TV though.
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline flateric

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Re: Future Combat Air System (FCAS)
« Reply #185 on: August 29, 2018, 09:05:21 pm »
one more
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works


Offline fightingirish

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Re: Future Combat Air System (FCAS)
« Reply #187 on: February 28, 2019, 01:58:18 am »
It looks like, that the British-French FCAS project has been canceled.
Quote from: Helen Ch. @ChDefense
Ah. Pour celles et ceux qui se demandent ce qu'est devenu le programme FCAS franco-britannique lancé en novembre 2014 : les travaux ont été arrêtés, confirme Eric Trappier.
Twitter: https://twitter.com/ChDefense/status/1101035355057332224
Quote from: Dominic Perry @fg_domperry
More tests this year on @Dassault_OnAir Neuron demonstrator focused on stealth, confirms CEO Eric Trappier. However work on FCAS with "our British friends" has been discontinued.
Twitter: https://twitter.com/fg_domperry/status/1101035607550296064
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Offline Hood

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Re: Future Combat Air System (FCAS)
« Reply #188 on: February 28, 2019, 08:07:58 am »
This Flightglobal article has a few more snippets, the most important perhaps being that interest from Britain seemed to wane. Even Trappier seems unaware exactly why it fizzled out.
The demonstrator phase was due to start in 2017, so it seems the pullback, perhaps due to funding or change of political interests, took hold before 'Tempest' came on the scene.
It seems some low-level co-operation is being maintained.
It would be too tempting to say the Brexit guillotine imposed by the government that inexplicably cut us from things like Euratom, which had little to do with the EU, had a hand in the unraveling of all the 2010-era Anglo-French defence cooperation initiatives. The truth is probably more nuanced than that.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/dassault-confirms-end-of-anglo-french-ucav-work-456199/

Offline red admiral

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Re: Future Combat Air System (FCAS)
« Reply #189 on: February 28, 2019, 09:25:12 am »
The historians will have fun reading through the emails and PowerPoint, and interviewing in the future. The reasons for this will be pretty obvious.

Offline FighterJock

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Re: Future Combat Air System (FCAS)
« Reply #190 on: February 28, 2019, 10:04:11 am »
The historians will have fun reading through the emails and PowerPoint, and interviewing in the future. The reasons for this will be pretty obvious.

Don't get me started on the B word red admiral.   >:(

Offline Harrier

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Re: Future Combat Air System (FCAS)
« Reply #191 on: February 28, 2019, 11:27:12 am »
The historians will have fun reading through the emails and PowerPoint, and interviewing in the future. The reasons for this will be pretty obvious.

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Offline Hood

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Re: Future Combat Air System (FCAS)
« Reply #192 on: March 01, 2019, 01:18:42 am »
Trappier seems to be laying out the arguments for not letting anyone interfere with his company's project. "One company or one country" sounds easy, but Dassault and Airbus are not one company (yet) and that assumes that the AdA and Luftwaffe have the same requirements in mind.
The cynic would say how would Dassault know about the multinational experience having not been part of one since the 1960s!

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/dassault-chief-warns-on-creating-eurofighter-20-f-456242/


The historians will have fun reading through the emails and PowerPoint, and interviewing in the future. The reasons for this will be pretty obvious.

I very much doubt much of the electronic source material will ever find its way to Kew or the company archives for us to read about. With 50 years to wait plus however long the Tempest is in service for (the 2040 introduction is barely halfway through the embargo period) we will all be dead or doddery old centenarians before we get the inside story. Hopefully our children or grandchildren will pick up the aviation historian bug and go have a look for us, assuming the software exists to read the files.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2019, 01:27:28 am by Hood »

Offline TomcatViP

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Re: Future Combat Air System (FCAS)
« Reply #193 on: March 01, 2019, 03:48:54 am »
You're too pessimistic (but I agree that the matters discussed in the latter posts brings anyone easily into this). In 50y from now, the SP forum will still be hotly debated by yet to be born forumers.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2019, 03:59:03 am by TomcatViP »

Offline Deltafan

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Re: Future Combat Air System (FCAS)
« Reply #194 on: March 01, 2019, 07:28:15 pm »
The cynic would say how would Dassault know about the multinational experience having not been part of one since the 1960s!