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Author Topic: Boeing 737 MAX family  (Read 17534 times)

Offline Foo Fighter

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Re: Boeing 737 MAX family
« Reply #30 on: March 13, 2019, 08:09:54 am »
There seems to be something wrong with their '*&oody airplanes'.  Doing nothing will hardly improve trust levels.

Offline The Artist

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Re: Boeing 737 MAX family
« Reply #31 on: March 13, 2019, 12:32:39 pm »
"Thank you for summing that up."

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Offline Grey Havoc

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Offline Triton

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Re: Boeing 737 MAX family
« Reply #33 on: March 13, 2019, 06:06:28 pm »
"Ethiopian Airlines crash: What is the MCAS system on the Boeing 737 Max 8?"
March 12, 2019 by Chris Lefko

Source:
https://phys.org/news/2019-03-ethiopian-airlines-mcas-boeing-max.html#jCp

Offline Grey Havoc

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Re: Boeing 737 MAX family
« Reply #34 on: March 14, 2019, 12:03:05 pm »
The sole imperative of a government, once instituted, is to survive.

Offline Grey Havoc

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The sole imperative of a government, once instituted, is to survive.

Offline lastdingo

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Re: Boeing 737 MAX family
« Reply #36 on: March 14, 2019, 02:35:50 pm »
I don't understand why they gave the high authority autopilot an algorithm to push the nose down at all.
Every pilot knows that you either need to increase thrust A LOT or pitch the nose down when there's an acoustic stall warning.
Thrust isn't much of an option in airliners because of poor thrust:weight ratio, so pilots would pitch down unless they totally lost orientation and violate basic rules of flying.

Offline TomcatViP

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Re: Boeing 737 MAX family
« Reply #37 on: March 14, 2019, 04:26:24 pm »
Stick pusher have been around for 70 years...

Airbus don't require a stick pusher;  the ctr law are simply impaired, what means that whatever you ask it won't allow.

Boeing are direct ctrl plane: hands on stick and not a push buttons (think Thrustmaster and Playstation).
Today with the massification of flights (and flight hours obviously) we face a lot of various surfacing problems that seems to tackle the sane logic of 100th old Boeing: long hours pilots deemed senior flyer that have been conditioned by aitbus "relaxed" authority (you delegate your inputs to the ctrl software) and young pilot with hours on console that start any critical reflexion only after having pressed 100 time repeatedly on a push button.  Those are conflicting worlds and I fear that mixing both would lead us only to disaster like that.

Boeing should assume their philosophy of flight (the sane one IMOHO - especially with all the unforeseen problems with global warming - think flows mechanics for example) and sponsor their own accredited flight syllabus.

yes, you get it, you'll be a Boeing/Embraer/[today] Bombardier qualified pilot or a... button pusher.

On a thread on Keypub, I even put frwd that flight interfaces (ctrl law, avionic, cockpit disposition) would have to be commune cross platform and across airframer. It obviously lead us to delegating a lot of flight responsibility to the ground team via datalink.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 04:35:38 pm by TomcatViP »

Offline Grey Havoc

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The sole imperative of a government, once instituted, is to survive.

Offline Grey Havoc

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Re: Boeing 737 MAX family
« Reply #39 on: March 16, 2019, 05:31:13 am »
The sole imperative of a government, once instituted, is to survive.

Offline draganm

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Re: Boeing 737 MAX family
« Reply #40 on: March 16, 2019, 08:46:26 am »
any comments on this whopper of a statement?

Quote
MCAS was introduced by Boeing on the 737 Max 8 because its heavier, more fuel-efficient engines changed the aerodynamic qualities of the workhorse aircraft and can cause the plane's nose to pitch up in certain conditions during manual flight.

Angle of attack sensors on the aircraft tell the MCAS to automatically point the nose of the plane down if it is in danger of going into a stall. This is done through horizontal stabilizers on the plane's tail which are activated by the aircraft's flight control computer.
Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2019-03-ethiopian-airlines-mcas-boeing-max.html#jCp
to me that says" Boeing stuck engines on their 737 platform  that were too large and aerodynamically inappropriate for the  aircraft, made it inherently unstable and dangerous to operate, then tried to address the problem with a software band-aid" . Really would like ot hear what any aero Engineers here would have to say about that
     This is mind blowing. We flew with Southwest in December and i remember asking the the flight attendant " is this a max 8?", he said no, it was a -700. On the way back though, by the time we sat down and i pulled out the brochure, we were indeed on a max 8. Talk about bad luck, they only have 34 of them out of a fleet of 500.  Needless to say the flight was uneventful but the fact that 189 people died, and then another 159 3 months later for the same problem is really horrible. Shows the power of Corporations today, that the US government was the last to act, only after the entire rest of the world had grounded them
         

Offline TomcatViP

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Re: Boeing 737 MAX family
« Reply #41 on: March 16, 2019, 11:52:43 am »
Fuel efficient -> more payload or more fuel -> more mass -> more alpha (AoA) (especially during climb to cruise alt).
Swept wings are inherently unstable nose high. For 70 years man have flown aircraft fitted with a stick pusher. The only difference here is that its a digital/software system implemented in the FBW rules. You obviously have to know a bit about aviation to understand its action during flight. But, hey, Airline Pilots are said to be such guys...

Last but not least, the pitot feed might be the one faulting the FBW.
 
 
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 12:03:47 pm by TomcatViP »

Offline Archibald

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Re: Boeing 737 MAX family
« Reply #42 on: March 16, 2019, 12:16:28 pm »
Quote
a safety feature on the Boeing aircraft was repeatedly trying to put the plane into a dive as a result of a malfunction.

the suspect mugshot has been published



https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=WMhYl74vw2c
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Offline Hobbes

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Re: Boeing 737 MAX family
« Reply #43 on: March 16, 2019, 12:29:50 pm »

 to me that says" Boeing stuck engines on their 737 platform  that were too large and aerodynamically inappropriate for the  aircraft, made it inherently unstable and dangerous to operate, then tried to address the problem with a software band-aid" .
       

None of those are problematic. Thousands of unstable aircraft have been operated since the 1970s without incident. Where it went wrong is that the pilots didn't realize the MCAS was influencing the airplane's attitude due to insufficient training on that system.

Offline TomcatViP

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Re: Boeing 737 MAX family
« Reply #44 on: March 16, 2019, 01:12:38 pm »
deleted
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 02:48:01 pm by TomcatViP »