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Author Topic: Polikarpov I-11 & I-13 fighters  (Read 3266 times)

Offline hesham

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Polikarpov I-11 & I-13 fighters
« on: May 21, 2010, 04:40:28 am »
Hi,

The Polikarpov I-11 was a single seat monoplane fighter project
with emphasis on speed rather than manoeuvrability,powered by
one M-34F engine and it had a metal airframe.
The Polikarpov I-13 was an agile biplane fighter project and was
powered by one Wright Cyclone engine,led to I-15.

Offline hesham

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Re: Polikarpov I-11 & I-13 fighters
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2010, 04:16:56 am »
I think that I found the I-13,it was also called I-14a;

http://cosmopark.ru/i15.htm

(4th of May 1932 Kharlamov N.M. (at the time - head of the TsAGI) issued an order to make N.N.Polikarpov and G.I.Bertosh deputys of P.O.Sukhoj - head of brigade 3. According to the plan of 1933 the brigade was deriving two new high speed fighters: I-13 (Polikarpov) with M-32 engine and I-14 (Sukhoi) with M-38 engine.Having faced with M-32 engine development problems N.N.Polikarpov derived advanced draft on the base of I-13 named initially I-14a, which gradually evolved into the I-15 design).

Offline hesham

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Re: Polikarpov I-11 & I-13 fighters
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2015, 04:35:45 am »
Hi,


here is the Polikarpov I-13 Fighter Project of 1931.


Неизвестный Поликарпов

Offline hesham

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Re: Polikarpov I-11 & I-13 fighters
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2019, 05:38:38 am »
From Ali Nuove 4/1953,

here is a drawings to Polikarpov I-13 and first time to I-11,and so weird,the profile
of I-13 is exactly as appeared on Aero Journal.

Offline Stenda G

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Re: Polikarpov I-11 & I-13 fighters
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2019, 04:58:59 am »
From Ali Nuove 4/1953,
here is a drawings to Polikarpov I-13 and first time to I-11,and so weird,the profile
of I-13 is exactly as appeared on Aero Journal.

Better quality

But it seems to me that it is just an "author`s fantasy" based I-14a and I-13.

(I-11 is especially ugly)
« Last Edit: March 12, 2019, 05:13:16 am by Stenda G »

Offline hesham

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Re: Polikarpov I-11 & I-13 fighters
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2019, 05:26:08 am »
Better quality

But it seems to me that it is just an "author`s fantasy" based I-14a and I-13.

(I-11 is especially ugly)

No that's not right,

this magazine has a credibility in its materials and sources,a personal opinion is not
right in this case.

Offline Stenda G

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Re: Polikarpov I-11 & I-13 fighters
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2019, 07:33:24 am »
No that's not right,

this magazine has a credibility in its materials and sources,a personal opinion is not
right in this case.
This opinion is based on articles in different other magazines and books (including books by Maslov, Ivanov, etc). If you don`s see mistakes this doesn`t mean that the article is totally correct. I saw such cases many times.

For example: in awesome book about Liberty engine Robert Neal repeats famous fable about russian 2 turrets BT-4 tank. Also he said about three (!) prototyps of TG-1 tank with M-5 engine (in fact only 1 with M-6).
Also u can ask Taranov, why he has tag #AntiSvirin in his blog. And what he thinks about western (and russian also) popular theories about armour history.

(M.Svirin was famous russian historian with many articles and books published in 1990s and 1st half of 2000s, but today with more available info from archives we can see, there are a lot of mistakes)

It is said: Errare humanum est.

Also. Look carefully at I-11 M-34F. There is a reduction gear on the sketch. But M-34F was just a subvariant of direct drived M-34.
And finally it is just too small for 46 liters M-34 being installed in such fuselage.

So... My opinion: H.Leonard had some framentary info and just drew "something like TsKB-3 with V-12 engine".
« Last Edit: March 12, 2019, 07:43:52 am by Stenda G »

Offline hesham

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Re: Polikarpov I-11 & I-13 fighters
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2019, 08:10:07 am »
All of those are a speculations,

and I only take by facts,if there was a drawings to them,I wish someone showing them
to us.

Offline Stenda G

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Re: Polikarpov I-11 & I-13 fighters
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2019, 02:00:00 pm »
All of those are a speculations,

and I only take by facts,if there was a drawings to them,I wish someone showing them
to us.
Me too, hesham.
I also want to believe see. Original sketches, development story, better - plans or blueprints.

But all we have - few mentions in different books and in Rodionov`s chronicles of aviation. Some mentions in chapters about 1930-33.
So here are facts from it:
april 30 1930 - I-11 - single-seat fighter made of Electron alloy with M-41 engine - development of M-15 with 750hp 320kg.
In July 1931 it was reported that there is still no requirements specified and the design didn`t started.
October 1st 1931 - same as previous
1st January 1932 - "work in progress"
And no mentions in 1933.

In march 1931 specification was sent to TsKB - single-seat MGs-fighter with M-32.
On 23nd of September "Programm of experimental aircrafts development for 1931-1934" was approved with both of I-11 - TsAGI and TsKB. Also there is LSh-5 (light sturmovik) based on I-9, I-10, I-11.

Nothing about TsKB I-11 in 1932-1933 except about LSh-5 that was cancelled.
And that is all.

The only single-seat fighter with M-34 according to Rodionov - I-9. Another variants - with M-32, M-38.

And the 2nd engine for I-13 was FED-3/M-28 - X24 1170hp/55 liters.
There is only one mention on 8th of March 1933 about I-13 with M-38 or Bristol Mercury for the 1st prototype.
(But it seems to me this is mistake, because there is no other mentions of such project. And also I-15 with R1820 was already in development. I think it is I-14 in fact)
« Last Edit: March 12, 2019, 02:03:56 pm by Stenda G »

Offline hesham

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Re: Polikarpov I-11 & I-13 fighters
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2019, 04:32:26 pm »
OK Stenda,

but we can't judge before see the original drawings to both of them,and maybe
the Aero Journal is right or very close to them.