Small UAS / Drones and related general thread - NOT Swarming ones.

AIM-9x is a million dollar missile. IMO some kind of gun or HPM emitter is the way to go. Alternatively, the laser guidance kit for 70mm rockets is a $20,000 per round solution that could be dropped in now; the Ukrainians have been donated a four round self contained launcher that can bolt into a civilian truck bed and can presumably easily bolt to a ship deck, at the expense of space.
 
Wiki has AIM-9X at 0.4 mill back in 2019 and ESSM at 1.8 for 2021. Not sure how accurate those numbers are and of course they've grown with inflation, but alot cheaper than an SM. If you only adjust for inflation values from 2019 to 2024 its right around 0.5 mill.

I feel like an IR tracker would work better on cruise missiles than laser guidance but could be very wrong. IMO one definite advantage of AIM-9X to APKWS is the range to me, I'd rather engage the target 10 miles out if protecting a ship vs 3 miles out. The 70mm rockets are great for a cheap ground defense not sure I'd trust the defense of a ship with them though.

I do agree we need a cheaper solution to go with missiles, either it being ALAMO or HVP and a soft kill like HPM or lasers. 3 layers for a good layered self defense bubble. My thinking with the drone with AIM-9X was probably cheap and quick to do for a quick capability add while getting the rest of the defense layer figured out.
 
Shoes31 said:
Wiki has AIM-9X at 0.4 mill back in 2019 and ESSM at 1.8 for 2021. Not sure how accurate those numbers are and of course they've grown with inflation, but alot cheaper than an SM. If you only adjust for inflation values from 2019 to 2024 its right around 0.5 mill.

I feel like an IR tracker would work better on cruise missiles than laser guidance but could be very wrong. IMO one definite advantage of AIM-9X to APKWS is the range to me, I'd rather engage the target 10 miles out if protecting a ship vs 3 miles out. The 70mm rockets are great for a cheap ground defense not sure I'd trust the defense of a ship with them though.

I do agree we need a cheaper solution to go with missiles, either it being ALAMO or HVP and a soft kill like HPM or lasers. 3 layers for a good layered self defense bubble. My thinking with the drone with AIM-9X was probably cheap and quick to do for a quick capability add while getting the rest of the defense layer figured out.
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Fair enough on price; I was going from memory.

The advantage of laser guidance is cost and the fact that electric UAVs don’t have much of a heat signature, and also someone has already built a self contained guidance/power/launcher bolt on package to do this.

If you want to use an AIM-9, just use RAM.
 
Shoes31 said:
Wiki has AIM-9X at 0.4 mill back in 2019 and ESSM at 1.8 for 2021. Not sure how accurate those numbers are and of course they've grown with inflation, but alot cheaper than an SM. If you only adjust for inflation values from 2019 to 2024 its right around 0.5 mill.

I feel like an IR tracker would work better on cruise missiles than laser guidance but could be very wrong. IMO one definite advantage of AIM-9X to APKWS is the range to me, I'd rather engage the target 10 miles out if protecting a ship vs 3 miles out. The 70mm rockets are great for a cheap ground defense not sure I'd trust the defense of a ship with them though.

I do agree we need a cheaper solution to go with missiles, either it being ALAMO or HVP and a soft kill like HPM or lasers. 3 layers for a good layered self defense bubble. My thinking with the drone with AIM-9X was probably cheap and quick to do for a quick capability add while getting the rest of the defense layer figured out.
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Would question the range tough as ground launched version of AAMs all suffer considerable range degradation from having to launch from the ground at zero speed vs from a jet plane. That is why they were not to successful in the past.
 
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EW has had minimal effect on the short range FPV drones anyway. It makes the camera fuzzy for the last 10m but the drone still hits anyway. Attaching a 10km cable seems more of a limitation than an advantage. I would also love to see what happens when it reaches the end of the cable without the operator realising. It would be like that time a pitbull charged at me for no reason, reached the end of a 20ft lead and yanked the owner off his feet and span him round, with them both ending up sprawled out on the ground together.
 
Forest Green said:
EW has had minimal effect on the short range FPV drones anyway. It makes the camera fuzzy for the last 10m but the drone still hits anyway. Attaching a 10km cable seems more of a limitation than an advantage. I would also love to see what happens when it reaches the end of the cable without the operator realising. It would be like that time a pitbull charged at me for no reason, reached the end of a 20ft lead and yanked the owner off his feet and span him round, with them both ending up sprawled out on the ground together.
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I suspect the fuzzy pictures in videos released publicly are the drones falling below the line of sight in their final decent. I doubt we really see FPV drones succumbing to jamming at all - they just get lost. Most ever report or anecdotal source notes that it takes a number of drones to achieve a single success, on average.

That said I would not have thought wire guidance would be practical. It seems to me the first tree belt between you and the target would catch your guidance wire.
 
Why on earth are these things called "FPV" drones when such a first person view is the only perspective you're ever going to see from the optics on a drone? It doesn't matter if it's a more conventional screen or googles you're viewing it from. What is supposed to be the distinction?

I've been rather underwhelmed by the response to these through EW/jamming means.
 
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Josh_TN said:
I suspect the fuzzy pictures in videos released publicly are the drones falling below the line of sight in their final decent. I doubt we really see FPV drones succumbing to jamming at all - they just get lost. Most ever report or anecdotal source notes that it takes a number of drones to achieve a single success, on average.

That said I would not have thought wire guidance would be practical. It seems to me the first tree belt between you and the target would catch your guidance wire.
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I thought some were linked by Star Link and other satellite networks.

On the subject of fibre optic links:

en.wikipedia.org

Polyphem - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

https://twitter.com/x/status/1765774519833133434
View: https://x.com/GrandSarrazin/status/1765774519833133434?s=20
 
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Colonial-Marine said:
Why on earth are these things called "FPV" drones when such a first person view is the only perspective you're ever going to see from the optics on a drone? It doesn't matter if it's a more conventional screen or googles you're viewing it from. What is the supposed to be the distinction?

I've been rather underwhelmed by the response to these through EW/jamming means.
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The FPV moniker generally describes UAVs with a fixed sensor forward. I suspect the term “FPV” was a carry over from first person shooter video games more than anything else, given the user base. I doubt either side uses googles to control their drones; there’s no need for that expense.

The FPVs that get jammed we simply never hear from. Who is going to upload a drone video that just cuts to static?
 
Forest Green said:
I thought some were linked by Star Link and other satellite networks.
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Not even the largest UAVs use Starlink or satellites, AFAIK. That is an expensive and heavy capability to add to an expendable/single use UAV or missile. The only example I can think of is RGM-109 blk4/5. The Ukrainian maritime USVs do, however.
 
Josh_TN said:
Not even the largest UAVs use Starlink or satellites, AFAIK. That is an expensive and heavy capability to add to an expendable/single use UAV or missile. The only example I can think of is RGM-109 blk4/5. The Ukrainian maritime USVs do, however.
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Oh okay. Well I still see some hit without the last minute fuzziness.
 
Colonial-Marine said:
Why on earth are these things called "FPV" drones when such a first person view is the only perspective you're ever going to see from the optics on a drone? It doesn't matter if it's a more conventional screen or googles you're viewing it from. What is supposed to be the distinction?

I've been rather underwhelmed by the response to these through EW/jamming means.
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Before they all got radio cameras people had to control them from the ground by eyeball then land them again to see what photos/footage they had recorded. Was more like flying kites.
 
WatcherZero said:
Before they all got radio cameras people had to control them from the ground by eyeball then land them again to see what photos/footage they had recorded. Was more like flying kites.
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Back when they just called them remote control aircraft I guess. But in Ukraine haven't they been using camera-fitted ones the whole time? I can't imagine anyone on the ground successfully dropping an explosive on some enemy AFV without the use of a camera in that drone.
 
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Its a meme, but a summary of things tried I guess.
 

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Josh_TN said:
Those seem like some large explosions. If the flash at the 1:48 minute is the same explosion as the noise at the 1:57 mark, then the video was taken over a mile from the impact.
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Indeed, I'm sure there'll be some satellite photos later, possibly got some Tu-95Ms and Tu-160s.
 
Forest Green said:
Indeed, I'm sure there'll be some satellite photos later, possibly got some Tu-95Ms and Tu-160s.
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Impossible to say. There did not seem to be any obvious fire on the horizon. But *if* that flash was indeed the origin of the shockwave nearly ten seconds later, then I think there might have been a major secondary explosion of ordnance. A little UAV is not going to have anything like that kind of concussion.
 
Panther claws:

French Panther helicopter shot down sea skimming Houti drone with side mounted AANF-1 7,62 mm machine gun.

1592714937440


https://twitter.com/x/status/1770479631545532591
View: https://twitter.com/i/status/1770479631545532591

Notice the very short bursts of ammo used to score the kill.
 

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