Man in space

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

Hey fellas, I'm (planning) on making a video game, set in the late 1950s, where Britain, the USSR and the USA each have their own space programmes, the US having Von Brauns ferry rocket and space lift ops, and the Brits having the BIS', now formed as the British Interplanetary Commission, designs from 45-58. Perhaps I might have some help in coming up wit the lore? Or even ideas for "photographs" for background dressing would be cool.

Brief synopsis of the general game plot

1958- WgCmd David Rathbone is summoned to the briefing room in the RRE on the coast of Kenya. The BIC has lost contact with the moon base "Cheshire Base" (must work on that name), and so David and a co pilot is dispatched up to the moon to find out what has happened in the colony. Once arriving at mons piton, they crash, and the co pilot is killed. Rathbone is slightly injured, and makes his way towards the colony. The place is largely deserted. He tends to his wounds, and proceeds into the main colony. There he finds that the colony has been overrun by Wellsian Martians, who are using the moon as a stepping stone towards the invasion of earth, since mars is increasingly becoming uninhabitable in recent years.

David fights his way through the colony, then there are two endings. Leave the colony for a nearby quarry to link up with the indigenous species of the moon, the selenites, or he can remain and link up with the few survivors left and detonate the Thorium reactor as a last ditch effort to destroy the invasion force and escape.

Thoughts? The game will largely follow the war of the worlds, however with a more 50s update, and more period appropriate science.

 

[Archibald]

That's ambitious !

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

Yes, I know, although it will take me many a year, if it even gets made

 

[Dilandu]

There he finds that the colony has been overrun by Wellsian Martians, who are using the moon as a stepping stone towards the invasion of earth, since mars is increasingly becoming uninhabitable in recent years

With all respect, but Wellsian martians did not work well with any kind of semi-plausible space race setting. By 1950s it was already known, that Mars is a cold, mostly waterless planet with very low atmospheric pressure. Any kind of developed civilization on Mars would surely be detected.

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

With all respect, but Wellsian martians did not work well with any kind of semi-plausible space race setting. By 1950s it was already known, that Mars is a cold, mostly waterless planet with very low atmospheric pressure. Any kind of developed civilization on Mars would surely be detected.

If I recall, Disney aired "Man and mars" in 1957, and they had an entire section dedicated to what life might be found, whether it be the last remnants of a civilisation clinging to survival in the harsh conditions, or more animalistic life, that ate rock or sand, or perhaps silicone based lifeforms.

It was definitely speculated about, and not to mention the '53 WOTW interpretation of other planets in our solar system weren't exactly accurate, such as Jupiter having enormous mountains and volcanoes, or Saturn being enveloped by enormous sheets of ice.

I think I can get away with having it as a dying civilisation, like the movie and the Disney documentary. Sure it's not strictly accurate, but it makes for a cool backdrop to the story, as much as having dinosaurs on Venus might.

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

Also, what kind of facilities might a Lunar colony at Mons piton have? I'm aware of hydroponic farms and the residential areas, but as for everything else I'm stumped, perhaps I might ask for some more imaginative minds?

 

[Orionblamblam]

The von Braun "Colliers" series was cool, but not physically feasible. The ferry rockets, if they managed to attain orbit, would have melted on entry. The economics of the ferry rocket program would have been ruinous. Octagonal rocket engines would have kerploded. The whole concept of Mars was mistaken, assuming an atmosphere far thicker than it actually has.

Still: it'd be a fun playground. Yes, the Wellesian Martians can't exist. But neither can giant Mars-gliders. Not everything needs to have complete scientific accuracy to be fun. Otherwise... no more phasers, hyperdrives, light sabers or deflector shields.

Go ahead with your idea. I'd recommend, though, only changing "reality" where absolutely necessary, such as slotting in Martians and - presumably - Burroughs-dinosaurs on Venus and Wells' Selenites.

 

[Orionblamblam]

With all respect, but Wellsian martians did not work well with any kind of semi-plausible space race setting. By 1950s it was already known, that Mars is a cold, mostly waterless planet with very low atmospheric pressure. Any kind of developed civilization on Mars would surely be detected.

Mars was thought to have an atmosphere about 7% as thick as Earths up until Mariner in '64, when reality came crashing in.

 

[Justo Miranda]

We shouldn't let a small scientific detail ruin a good Classic Science Fiction story. Everyone knows that Martians live deep in huge underground cities and that's why we can't detect them. Personally, I'm not attracted to video games, but I think this could be a good script for a comic book.

 

[Archibald]

Well there are also caves on the Moon, of epic size - 170 km long and up to 5 km in diameter. Courtesy of the local gravity merely 15% of Earth: lava tubes can grow huge without collapsing. Have a look at this link: it is jaw-dropping.

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/2016GL071588#grl55400-tbl-0001

Largest lava tube on Earth: 30 m wide.

Average lava tube on Mars: 300 m wide.

Lava tube on the Moon: 3000 m wide.

 

[Justo Miranda]

Perhaps the Martians use their superior technology to trick us by entering fake images and environmental data into our rovers and space probes. So far they have managed to discourage any serious manned travel project.

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

The von Braun "Colliers" series was cool, but not physically feasible. The ferry rockets, if they managed to attain orbit, would have melted on entry. The economics of the ferry rocket program would have been ruinous. Octagonal rocket engines would have kerploded. The whole concept of Mars was mistaken, assuming an atmosphere far thicker than it actually has.

Still: it'd be a fun playground. Yes, the Wellesian Martians can't exist. But neither can giant Mars-gliders. Not everything needs to have complete scientific accuracy to be fun. Otherwise... no more phasers, hyperdrives, light sabers or deflector shields.

Go ahead with your idea. I'd recommend, though, only changing "reality" where absolutely necessary, such as slotting in Martians and - presumably - Burroughs-dinosaurs on Venus and Wells' Selenites.

How'd you know about the selenites? Anyway, I think I can stick most of the the more wacky 50s perceptions of the planets, like Pluto being so cold that is atmosphere lies frozen on its surface. I just think the combination of the two would be a very fun backdrop. I shall follow your advice thoroughly

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

Well there are also caves on the Moon, of epic size - 170 km long and up to 5 km in diameter. Courtesy of the local gravity merely 15% of Earth: lava tubes can grow huge without collapsing. Have a look at this link: it is jaw-dropping.

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/2016GL071588#grl55400-tbl-0001

Largest lava tube on Earth: 30 m wide.

Average lava tube on Mars: 300 m wide.

Lava tube on the Moon: 3000 m wide.

Good lord, no wonder the British or Americans have found the selenites yet lol. That would make for some awesome combat arenas

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

But anyway, back to the colonies, what kind of the facilities should the have?

 

[Archibald]

Perhaps the Martians use their superior technology to trick us by entering fake images and environmental data into our rovers and space probes. So far they have managed to discourage any serious manned travel project.

Eureka ! They are the bastards that very perversely screwed Viking life seeking experiments in 1976 ! Driving Horowitz, Oyama, LEvine and Biemann crazy.

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

"learned men of science and reason, via strong calculation and due thought, I have come to the conclusion, that no life can possibly exist on the planet mars."

Eureka ! They are the bastards that very perversely screwed Viking life seeking experiments in 1976 ! Driving Horowitz, Oyama, LEvine and Biemann crazy.

But seriously though, what might a 1950s lunar colony have in it?

 

[Orionblamblam]

But seriously though, what might a 1950s lunar colony have in it?

Depending on technological factors and assumptions, either HUGE "atomic piles" for power or great big parabolic dishes/troughs reflecting sunlight onto mercury boilers that use the vaporized metal to generate power. Probably a combo. But if you don't yet have atomic power and rely on solar, the colony would have to have gigantic battery farms.

But atomics. Always atomics.

 

[uk 75]

Space 1959 as Space 1999 and Space 1899 have already been done.
For any Brit the future belonged to Dan Dare and Spacefleet. Or in my case Steve Zodiac and Fireball XL5.
Mark Wade's Encyclopedia used to have details of 1950s early 1960s space projects.
My prefered alt history has 1975 as the year when all sorts of impossible things happen. In Space Von Braun got his Mars and Moon programmes approved in 1968 and Pan Am and TWA are about to introduce the Boeing SST into service. Pan Am is working on the Space Clipper with NASA.
In Britain Sydney Jordan's Jeff Hawke strip shows what might have been.

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

Space 1959 as Space 1999 and Space 1899 have already been done.
For any Brit the future belonged to Dan Dare and Spacefleet. Or in my case Steve Zodiac and Fireball XL5.
Mark Wade's Encyclopedia used to have details of 1950s early 1960s space projects.
My prefered alt history has 1975 as the year when all sorts of impossible things happen. In Space Von Braun got his Mars and Moon programmes approved in 1968 and Pan Am and TWA are about to introduce the Boeing SST into service. Pan Am is working on the Space Clipper with NASA.
In Britain Sydney Jordan's Jeff Hawke strip shows what might have been.

Thats cool and all, but the BIS timeline is something I haven't seen done, and besides I have already acquired permission from them to do this, so might as well.

I just think it would make for a unique story is all

 

[Dilandu]

Mars was thought to have an atmosphere about 7% as thick as Earths up until Mariner in '64, when reality came crashing in.

Even that was viewed as far too low for complex life already in 1930s.

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

the rocketry science I can stick to, but I can take some liberties with the planetary science, like the moon being far more volcanic than it actually is

Even that was viewed as far too low for complex life already in 1930s.

 

[Archibald]

"project horizon""lunex" - Google Search

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

"project horizon""lunex" - Google Search

Ah yes, I've seen that project. A great (if rather funny) look at how a lunar outpost may be achieved. I mean, one only has to glimpse their Saturn 1s and 1a's and just lose all respect for the paper. Don't even get me started on the fact they thought it'd be a good idea to reinforce the outpost with Nuclear warheads

Its that kind of "barmy but cool" outlook I'm going for, and that doesn't necessarily dictate a strict accordance to the science, although I'll try and stay as close as to what was perceived at the time.

 

[uk 75]

Copyright issues on War of the Worlds come to mind as there are so many versions out there from graphic novels to movies.

The main problem for a 1950s Martian invasion can be seen in the classic movie of that time when a Northrop Flying Wing drops the atom bomb on the Martians. Like the much later aliens in Independence Day they have a forcefield dagnabit.

Wells's aliens are much less invincible. Artillery shells can bring one down as can the torpedo ram Thunderchild. 1950s weapons would make short work of the 1900 Tripods without a force field.

I would look elsewhere for your alien menace to the less intelligent but equally challenging aliens found in BBC's Quatermass or movies of the era.

They would also be more in keeping with the insect like Selenites.

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

Copyright issues on War of the Worlds come to mind as there are so many versions out there from graphic novels to movies.

The main problem for a 1950s Martian invasion can be seen in the classic movie of that time when a Northrop Flying Wing drops the atom bomb on the Martians. Like the much later aliens in Independence Day they have a forcefield dagnabit.

Wells's aliens are much less invincible. Artillery shells can bring one down as can the torpedo ram Thunderchild. 1950s weapons would make short work of the 1900 Tripods without a force field.

I would look elsewhere for your alien menace to the less intelligent but equally challenging aliens found in BBC's Quatermass or movies of the era.

They would also be more in keeping with the insect like Selenites.

well, for starters, the war of the worlds was recently made public domain
Second, I think I can have "electromagnetic Blisters" for the higher tier enemies, the big bosses, whereas the lower tier ones don't have them, that ought to spice up the combat a bit.

Also, the only weapons they have on the moon are guns and 1 fan emplacement with 20mm oerlikons, its not like they have a nuclear bomb to hand, although for the bad ending they do detonate the thorium reactor as a final desperate push.

 

[uk 75]

Aha that explains the vast quantity of WoW material.
Paradoxically I think any 1950s early 1960s presence on the Moon is going to be very "atomic". This was the era where nuclear power was seen as a good thing and applied far and wide.
Anyway you seem to have matters well in hand.

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

Yeah, cheers. I don’t suppose you might have any ideas as to what kind of facilities a lunar colony at Mons Piton would have would you?

 

[Michel Van]

So nice the idea is, so many flaws i see
first Time table 1950s senario with full working rockets and Spacecraft.
This story background muss start far earlier with 1920s with Oberth, Godard and Korolev, to get working hardware in 1950s
This let different WW2 and another world history as we know it.

If you goes for Von Braun senario take the 1957 version of Ferry rocket, it overworked on many issue.
goes with bigger thrust engine to reduce to realistic numbers (so long Elon Musk not start breaking records again...)
put station lower orbit 500 km, since original orbit was too high into Van Allen belt.

the Moon and Mars landers must be overworked since they base on 1950s assumption, who were wrong.
like massive meteor shielding, engines performance,
in end the lander would far lighter and smaller as planned in 1953 by von Braun

Wells aliens, it bit overuse by others, like brilliant comic Scarlet Traces by Ian Edginton and illustrated by D'Israeli.
in defence Edginton found excellent explication about Wells aliens origin, bypassing some nasty question by reader.

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

So nice the idea is, so many flaws i see
first Time table 1950s senario with full working rockets and Spacecraft.
This story background muss start far earlier with 1920s with Oberth, Godard and Korolev, to get working hardware in 1950s
This let different WW2 and another world history as we know it.

If you goes for Von Braun senario take the 1957 version of Ferry rocket, it overworked on many issue.
goes with bigger thrust engine to reduce to realistic numbers (so long Elon Musk not start breaking records again...)
put station lower orbit 500 km, since original orbit was too high into Van Allen belt.

the Moon and Mars landers must be overworked since they base on 1950s assumption, who were wrong.
like massive meteor shielding, engines performance,
in end the lander would far lighter and smaller as planned in 1953 by von Braun

Wells aliens, it bit overuse by others, like brilliant comic Scarlet Traces by Ian Edginton and illustrated by D'Israeli.
in defence Edginton found excellent explication about Wells aliens origin, bypassing some nasty question by reader.

Thanks for that pointer, I think I’ll look into that.

Also, I had the broad head cannon that the space race begins in 1946, with the launch of Megaroc, giving it a jump start. This happens because the Soviet Union was less resistant to western aid and diplomacy. For example Stalin accepts Marshall plan aid and the Berlin airlift never has to happen. This alleviates Cold War paranoia and allows budgets to be placed elsewhere, such as a space program, as opposed to nuclear strike bombers and the like.

Also, as I have said earlier, I can keep close to the rocketry science, but I can take some liberties with the planetary sciences, such as the 50s conception that the moon had “mists” of carbon dioxide and sulphur, due the misconception that the moon was far more volcanically active than it actually was.

Thanks anyway

 

[Michel Van]

Yeah, cheers. I don’t suppose you might have any ideas as to what kind of facilities a lunar colony at Mons Piton would have would you?

Observatory
Laboratory to study various things under Lunar Gravity.
Base as starting point for long range exploration on Rovers

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

Ah, thanks, perhaps some more interior areas? A nuclear reactor wouldn’t go amiss.

Also, I did think of some lunar roving vehicles: May I present the LDEV (Long Duration Exploration Vehicle), adapted from the chassis of a conqueror and specially modified for lunar conditions and
exploration.

Apologies for the poor photo quality, it’s my own sketch

Observatory
Laboratory to study various things under Lunar Gravity.
Base as starting point for long range exploration on Rovers

 

[TsrJoe]

Aha 'TinTin' lunar tank or a step from the Soviet 1956 and British HSD. 1960 tracked Moon vehicles

Thread 'Tintin "On a marché sur la lune"- Lunar Tank scale drawings.' https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/th...-sur-la-lune-lunar-tank-scale-drawings.33668/

Thread 'Soviet project of a scientific lunar tank in 1956.' https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/soviet-project-of-a-scientific-lunar-tank-in-1956.29608/

Thread 'British 1960 manned Lunar Project' https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/british-1960-manned-lunar-project.6954/

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

The soviet and tintin ones I haven’t read as of yet, I’ll take and have a read. Thanks!

Aha 'TinTin' lunar tank or a step from the Soviet 1956 and British HSD. 1960 tracked Moon vehicles

Thread 'Tintin "On a marché sur la lune"- Lunar Tank scale drawings.' https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/tintin-on-a-marché-sur-la-lune-lunar-tank-scale-drawings.33668/

Thread 'Soviet project of a scientific lunar tank in 1956.' https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/soviet-project-of-a-scientific-lunar-tank-in-1956.29608/

Thread 'British 1960 manned Lunar Project' https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/british-1960-manned-lunar-project.6954/

 

[Michel Van]

Also, I had the broad head cannon that the space race begins in 1946, with the launch of Megaroc, giving it a jump start. This happens because the Soviet Union was less resistant to western aid and diplomacy. For example Stalin accepts Marshall plan aid and the Berlin airlift never has to happen. This alleviates Cold War paranoia and allows budgets to be placed elsewhere, such as a space program, as opposed to nuclear strike bombers and the like.

this contradictory

The Space Program exist because of Cold War, even here the USA went lackluster on ICBM program, until Sputnik...
With out Cold War there no need to go into space there is no "reason etre"
And You need persons in power with visions, willing to go into space and beyond ICBM as weapon system.
You know War is mother of inventions...

very important let British politician accept the Marshall plan for UK !
This give the far better economic stand in 1950 to follow there projects like a "Vertical Empire" instead NHS

Ah, thanks, perhaps some more interior areas? A nuclear reactor wouldn’t go amiss.

Also, I did think of some lunar roving vehicles: May I present the LDEV (Long Duration Exploration Vehicle), adapted from the chassis of a conqueror and specially modified for lunar conditions and
exploration.

you need a nuclear reactor, since for there is monthly a 14 days long night on moon.
1950s battery (loaded by solar power) will not manage 14 days.

you not first who had idea to use tank on moon.

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

Well, the lore needs some work, perhaps the then labour government could see it as a perfect morale booster for the damaged country? Then the powers escalate it from there?

A reactor will definitely work best, and also the lunar tank will also be in keeping with projects of the time

 

[Michel Van]

Also, I had the broad head cannon that the space race begins in 1946, with the launch of Megaroc, giving it a jump start. This happens because the Soviet Union was less resistant to western aid and diplomacy. For example Stalin accepts Marshall plan aid and the Berlin airlift never has to happen. This alleviates Cold War paranoia and allows budgets to be placed elsewhere, such as a space program, as opposed to nuclear strike bombers and the like.

dam, i have to think first, before i post

you characters need motivation to conquer space !
What about this far reaching Backstory ?

Someone in Past, Terraformed Mars and Venus !
by pre Human civilisation like Neanderthals, Lemurians, Atlantis & Co.
Leaving Planets behind with Life and humans on it, as their civilisation perish for what ever reason.
Some day in 1930s the Nazis stumble over this in their Ahnenerbe Expeditions.
What shift von Braun rocket program from ballistic missile to Space Exploration.
After WW2 they allies find this research and evidence in loot of germans archive.
And kickstart race to get first to Moon, Mars, Venus. like British to establish new colonies, or prevent the commies land there.

On other side Venusian and Marsians have also space program to reach Earth in 1950s...

just a proposal.

 

[TsrJoe]

some inspiration ...

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

I'm not sure about the terraforming other worlds, scenario, but perhaps, the victorian perception of how life might come to be on other worlds might come into play. Essentially a combination of darwinism and geology, a planet's age determines how early or late life begins or ends. Hence in the war of the worlds the martian technology is far in excess of that on earth, simply because mars itself is older than earth.

As for the references, I suppose a slightly more realistic take on the ministry of space is in order, minus the American-style segregation, of course.

some inspiration ...

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

dam, i have to think first, before i post

you characters need motivation to conquer space !
What about this far reaching Backstory ?

Someone in Past, Terraformed Mars and Venus !
by pre Human civilisation like Neanderthals, Lemurians, Atlantis & Co.
Leaving Planets behind with Life and humans on it, as their civilisation perish for what ever reason.
Some day in 1930s the Nazis stumble over this in their Ahnenerbe Expeditions.
What shift von Braun rocket program from ballistic missile to Space Exploration.
After WW2 they allies find this research and evidence in loot of germans archive.
And kickstart race to get first to Moon, Mars, Venus. like British to establish new colonies, or prevent the commies land there.

On other side Venusian and Marsians have also space program to reach Earth in 1950s...

just a proposal.

I think that might be a tad too Wolfenstein-y, also see above

 

[southwestforests]

you not first who had idea to use tank on moon.

Also, I did think of some lunar roving vehicles: May I present the LDEV (Long Duration Exploration Vehicle), adapted from the chassis of a conqueror and specially modified for lunar conditions and
exploration.

Talking tanks brings up 2 questions:

How feasible, practical, survivable, are metal tank tracks with their many jointed links now that we know how fine and abrasive the moon regolith dust is?

How feasible, practical, survivable, are rubber tank tracks, molded around a steel cable core, as on farm and construction machinery seen around our town, now that we know how abrasive the moon regolith dust is?

Even with as much interest as I've had in tanks earlier in my life, there are serious doubts now about the practicality of tracked vehicles on the moon.