Izumo Class 22DDH Helicopter Destroyer

in this second picture, the deck definitely looks a lot darker than before too
 
Dilandu said:
helmutkohl said:
www.navyrecognition.com

Pictures of the new Japanese aircraft carrier JS Izumo after modificat

According to a tweet published by Alsace_class on June 25, 2021, pictures unveil a new flight deck of future aircraft carrier JS Izumo and changes to fligh
www.navyrecognition.com www.navyrecognition.com

Izumo spotted after modifications

Before


After
Click to expand...
This bow CIWS still looks a bit out of place... wouldn't it hamper the flight operations?
Click to expand...

The narrow white dashed line should mark the limit of where the F-35B's wingtip could be during rollout. So the CIWS is well clear of that.
 
www.flightglobal.com

US Marine F-35Bs to operate flights from Japanese carrier

The Japanese Maritime Self Defense-Force plans to have US Marine Corps F-35B fighters conduct drills from the JS Izumo, a so-called 'helicopter destroyer', that has been updated to allow the operation of short take-off and vertical landing (STOVL) aircraft.
www.flightglobal.com www.flightglobal.com

USMC F-35Bs will be the first to fly off Izumo
 
I think Japan is sending a clear message to China here. Soooo, you 've been churning large carriers lately ? With the hope of sending us and South Korea in a carrier race we can't sustain ?
...
GO AHEAD, MAKE MY DAY
...
What kind of advanced fighters do you plan to put on your decks ? FC-31s ?
...
Boom, 40*F-35B on our helicopter carriers. Barely modified at a very reasonable cost.

consent.youtube.com

Clint Eastwood: Go ahead, make my day.

Quote: Go ahead, make my day.Actor: Clint EastwoodMovie/Show: Sudden ImpactI do NOT own these clips. They are property of their respective studio. Studios, i...
consent.youtube.com consent.youtube.com
 
And I'm pretty sure the JMSDF have some ideas or even designs or plans for a full scale carrier up their sleaves just waiting for approval of construction. Surely not CVN but something QE sized.

Isn't South Korea at one point were interested in carriers? CVH at least or akin to the American Wasp and America class LPH/LHA/LHD's?
 
Tzoli said:
And I'm pretty sure the JMSDF have some ideas or even designs or plans for a full scale carrier up their sleaves just waiting for approval of construction. Surely not CVN but something QE sized.

Isn't South Korea at one point were interested in carriers? CVH at least or akin to the American Wasp and America class LPH/LHA/LHD's?
Click to expand...

yes we have a thread on its new light carrier proposals in the military section

it seems roughly to be the size of the USS America with 20 or so F-35s and maybe 4-6 helicopters
the Izumo/Kaga should be the same size with 20 aircraft (i dont think 40 f-35s could fit)
 
helmutkohl said:
Tzoli said:
And I'm pretty sure the JMSDF have some ideas or even designs or plans for a full scale carrier up their sleaves just waiting for approval of construction. Surely not CVN but something QE sized.

Isn't South Korea at one point were interested in carriers? CVH at least or akin to the American Wasp and America class LPH/LHA/LHD's?
Click to expand...

yes we have a thread on its new light carrier proposals in the military section

it seems roughly to be the size of the USS America with 20 or so F-35s and maybe 4-6 helicopters
the Izumo/Kaga should be the same size with 20 aircraft (i dont think 40 f-35s could fit)
Click to expand...
This?
 
Tzoli said:
helmutkohl said:
Tzoli said:
And I'm pretty sure the JMSDF have some ideas or even designs or plans for a full scale carrier up their sleaves just waiting for approval of construction. Surely not CVN but something QE sized.

Isn't South Korea at one point were interested in carriers? CVH at least or akin to the American Wasp and America class LPH/LHA/LHD's?
Click to expand...

yes we have a thread on its new light carrier proposals in the military section

it seems roughly to be the size of the USS America with 20 or so F-35s and maybe 4-6 helicopters
the Izumo/Kaga should be the same size with 20 aircraft (i dont think 40 f-35s could fit)
Click to expand...
This?
Click to expand...
yup thats it!
they have yet to decide which one of those proposals to go for.
 
Dilandu said:
helmutkohl said:
www.navyrecognition.com

Pictures of the new Japanese aircraft carrier JS Izumo after modificat

According to a tweet published by Alsace_class on June 25, 2021, pictures unveil a new flight deck of future aircraft carrier JS Izumo and changes to fligh
www.navyrecognition.com www.navyrecognition.com

Izumo spotted after modifications

Before


After
Click to expand...
This bow CIWS still looks a bit out of place... wouldn't it hamper the flight operations?
Click to expand...
I suspect it was placed there to give a fig leaf of cover to the story it's not a carrier...
 
Would never happen but I'd love to see South Korea and Japan collaborate on a supercarrier design. Hell, even license build some QEs (ditch the ramp though).
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Dilandu said:
helmutkohl said:
www.navyrecognition.com

Pictures of the new Japanese aircraft carrier JS Izumo after modificat

According to a tweet published by Alsace_class on June 25, 2021, pictures unveil a new flight deck of future aircraft carrier JS Izumo and changes to fligh
www.navyrecognition.com www.navyrecognition.com

Izumo spotted after modifications

Before


After
Click to expand...
This bow CIWS still looks a bit out of place... wouldn't it hamper the flight operations?
Click to expand...
I suspect it was placed there to give a fig leaf of cover to the story it's not a carrier...
Click to expand...

Something i've seen it mentioned several times regarding the positioning of the Sea Dart launcher on the Invincibles.
 
www.dvidshub.net

U.S. Marine Corps F-35B Lands on JS Izumo (B-roll)

U.S. Marine Corps F-35B Lightning II aircraft with Marine Fighter Attack Squadron (VMFA) 242 conducted vertical landings and take offs aboard the Japanese Ship Izumo off the coast of Japan, Oct. 3, 2021. U.S. Marines and Sailors embarked aboard the Japanese Ship Izumo in support of the first...
www.dvidshub.net www.dvidshub.net
www.dvidshub.net

F-35B JS Izumo Capabitilies Test (Social Media Video)

U.S. Marine Corps F-35B Lightning II aircraft with Marine Fighter Attack Squadron (VMFA) 242 conducted vertical landings and take offs aboard the Japanese Ship Izumo off the coast of Japan, Oct. 3, 2021. U.S. Marines and Sailors embarked aboard the Japanese Ship Izumo in support of the first...
www.dvidshub.net www.dvidshub.net
www.dvidshub.net

U.S. Marine Corps F-35B Lands on JS Izumo

A U.S. Marine Corps F-35B Lightning II aircraft with Marine Fighter Attack Squadron (VMFA) 242 conducts a vertical landing aboard the Japanese Ship Izumo off the coast of Japan, Oct. 3, 2021. U.S. Marines and Sailors embarked aboard the Japanese Ship Izumo in support of the first ever F-35B...
www.dvidshub.net www.dvidshub.net
 
Those videos are amazing. For all it flaws, they make me appreciate the achievement the F-35B is: packing VSTOL + stealth + supersonic into the same airframe. Watching a stealth jet hovering like this - pretty cool.

I never noticed before how much a F-35B - even perched 100 ft high - disturbs the ocean surface below. Is it related to hot gases from the exhaust, or cold air from the fan - or both ?
 
Archibald said:
Those videos are amazing. For all it flaws, they make me appreciate the achievement the F-35B is: packing VSTOL + stealth + supersonic into the same airframe. Watching a stealth jet hovering like this - pretty cool.

I never noticed before how much a F-35B - even perched 100 ft high - disturbs the ocean surface below. Is it related to hot gases from the exhaust, or cold air from the fan - or both ?
Click to expand...
Neither. It's actually the boiling fury of its critics, never far away...
 
Archibald said:
Those videos are amazing. For all it flaws, they make me appreciate the achievement the F-35B is: packing VSTOL + stealth + supersonic into the same airframe. Watching a stealth jet hovering like this - pretty cool.

I never noticed before how much a F-35B - even perched 100 ft high - disturbs the ocean surface below. Is it related to hot gases from the exhaust, or cold air from the fan - or both ?
Click to expand...
i agree.. the F-35B offers a lot of strategic capability for many navies that cannot afford a conventional super carrier. it can turn this helicopter carrier into doing much more things. its too bad V-22 Awacs idea seemingly died off.
 
www.navalnews.com

BAE Systems Eager to Share Aircraft Carrier Know-How with Japan - Naval News

On October 12, 2021, BAE Systems held a press conference for the Japanese media, where they announced the establishment of a local corporation in Japan. The establishment of this corporation is expected to take place by the end of this year or early next year. The press conference focused for...
www.navalnews.com www.navalnews.com
 
So BAE wishes to produce more carriers to maintain the skilled labour and looking for the next two possible countries wishing to extend it's naval air arm, Korea and Japan?

Is there other countries that are still interested in carriers? Thailand? Spain? The ABC countries? Which could order them from the UK?
 
Tzoli said:
Is there other countries that are still interested in carriers? Thailand? Spain? The ABC countries? Which could order them from the UK?
Click to expand...
It's very unlikely that any country with the economic capacity to operate a carrier would wish to buy one from overseas rather than build it in their own yards. Design support from from an organisation that already has experience with aircraft carriers, however, would be valuable to such a country.

Other than the countries already pursuing carriers, there aren't a lot of strong prospects. Germany and Canada could probably afford to run them, but neither show any evidence of even thinking about the possibility that they might consider aircraft carriers. Various other countries might consider fixed-wing capability aboard amphibious ships: Australia, Spain and Turkey are the obvious ones here, but it's unlikely anyone this far down the list would be after a dedicated aircraft carrier.
 
The French Navy surely wouldn't spit on two or three conventional carriers the size of Q.E.
Alas, the nuclear lobby and (as you say) shipyard skills won't allow for an off the shelf buy. Even less from the British, post-Brexit.
That train has left the station 15 years ago, with CVF... unfortunately.

Which is a shame, because that stubborn obsession of buying a FRENCH NUCLEAR carrier will doom the navy, as shown already by CdG lonely loneliness - and it can only get worse with a 75 000 tons ship.

Rafale was barely affordable as it stood, but combat aircraft are a "necessary evil".

But nuclear carriers ? for a medium power ? it's suicide. China, USA can afford it. Russia eventually could. But France ? forget it.

One and only 1 Nimitz, even built "at home" is waaaaaay too expensive for the present French Navy.

But go tell that to Macron... the decision has already been made. The nuclear lobby needs to be kept at work, because submarines. Even if CdG tragically demonstrated that submarine K-15s are no good for a carrier.

Let's do it again... K-22s. Frack.
 
Last edited:
Tzoli said:
So BAE wishes to produce more carriers to maintain the skilled labour and looking for the next two possible countries wishing to extend it's naval air arm, Korea and Japan?

Is there other countries that are still interested in carriers? Thailand? Spain? The ABC countries? Which could order them from the UK?
Click to expand...
BAE assistance will likely come in the form of information and design sharing. For Japan, the Izumo-class conversions are more a trial run for an QE size aircraft carrier to revive the manufacturing skills and also to train crews and admiralty on aircraft carrier operations. Once the Izumo's are running for a while Japan will have an established carrier doctrine post 1945 which should help them smooth their way into a 60k ton carrier. The most likely cooperation that will happen is parts sharing that will lower costs for both Japan and the UK similar to what is happening with the F-3/Tempest engine.

South Korea on the other hand is making a head first dive into full size CVs. The Dokdo conversions will never happen as they are even smaller than the Izumo's which just made the cut for F-35B operations. They also lack even the historical experience of carrier manufacturing and operation that Japan has and would benefit a lot more from a helping hand, but that would likely be handled by Italy with how the news has been.

In terms of European powers, if a country is unable to build their own carrier, then they likely don't have a large enough fleet to support a carrier group. Germany has almost 0 desire to project any power that a CV would provide. Canada and some SEA countries would be the primary customers for a UK built carrier, but I mostly predict that it will come in the form of modules rather than a complete carriers.
 
Current status of JS Kaga, under first phase of reconstruction into CV. As posted on this thread, JS Izumo already went through the first phase of reconstruction. Unlike Izumo though, Kaga will be refitted with a rectangular flight deck on its bow already in first reconstruction (happened a few months ago). Second phase of reconstruction of both ships are scheduled for 2026 and 27 respectively.

One could also observe the reconstruction of rear flight deck to accomodate heat-resistant materials that could withstand direct jet-stream from the F135.

View: https://youtu.be/h6FzIIPfHSk
 

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sferrin said:
Would never happen but I'd love to see South Korea and Japan collaborate on a supercarrier design. Hell, even license build some QEs (ditch the ramp though).
Click to expand...
there are great progresses among the current conservative admins of both countries but still a long way to go between fostering an military alliance at a level where shared development is on the table
 

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