Eurofighter Typhoon

FighterJock said:
Is this to offset the fact that the GCAP/Tempest won't be ready until sometime in the 2030s? It would make sense for Italy to buy more Typhoons right now to at least keep their air force squadrons ready until GCAP enters service.
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Also this maybe a deal for the turkish export deal to get the needed aircraft so the lane stays open?
 
FighterJock said:
Is this to offset the fact that the GCAP/Tempest won't be ready until sometime in the 2030s? It would make sense for Italy to buy more Typhoons right now to at least keep their air force squadrons ready until GCAP enters service.
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I suspect there are a number of things at play...

-Keeping the Italian production facilities running until GCAP. Buying more Typhoon is cheaper than having a gap...
- Changing security situation
- Air Force taking advantage of more money
- Possible dissatisfaction with F-35 progress, particularly around Block IV capabilities. You can't replace Tornado with an aircraft that has the capabilities of a Tranche 1 Typhoon in terms of weapons...and with Block IV endlessly delayed...
- The Egypt order for 24 has yet to arrive, and might never...
 
timmymagic said:
Keeping the Italian production facilities running until GCAP. Buying more Typhoon is cheaper than having a gap...
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I don't really understand this point as GCAP would be built using different processes in different facilities with different people, and much fewer people due to increased automation, additive manufacturing etc. that's being promoted in the "factory of the future"

I find it difficult to see what will usefully be carried over from Typhoon production

And then money spent on more Typhoons is money that isn't being spent on GCAP development
 
kqcke for you said:
Also this maybe a deal for the turkish export deal to get the needed aircraft so the lane stays open?
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BAE was the lead on Turkey I believe.

red admiral said:
I don't really understand this point as GCAP would be built using different processes in different facilities with different people, and much fewer people due to increased automation, additive manufacturing etc. that's being promoted in the "factory of the future"
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It will be built at Warton. By the apprentices and workers who are there now. But its not just the guys on the shop floor...its the stores, PM's, designers, technical librarians, processes etc etc...the list goes on and on...

Look at the mess that happened with Astute when we had a gap in production....its cheaper to keep the factory turning over at a low level than it is to stop and restart...
 
timmymagic said:
BAE was the lead on Turkey I believe.
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From germany i mean. They try to get the rest to buy more EF (doesn't matter if they already wanted to buy more if it wasn't known) so they don't need to pay so mutch so the lines stay open. After all there also Talks of only some ~20 EF that would be bought.
 
kqcke for you said:
From germany i mean.
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The German line is very secure with Quadriga, EK conversions, possible new build EK's and the c35-50 additional orders that are expeced from the Luftwaffe...and upgrades to the fleet with ECRS.Mk.1, and sub component production for the Spanish orders (and any others that come along). They do have longer to wait for SCAF though...
 
FighterJock said:
Is this to offset the fact that the GCAP/Tempest won't be ready until sometime in the 2030s? It would make sense for Italy to buy more Typhoons right now to at least keep their air force squadrons ready until GCAP enters service.
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Its reducing planned F-35 orders in favour of more Eurofighters. The F-35 were being built in Italy too so it isn't to favour domestic aircraft assembly, but may be favouring Italian aviation parts suppliers as well as helping to fund GCAP technologies early fielding. The other possible explanation is Eurofighter is a more efficient aircraft for routine deterrence patrols/interceptions.
 
I am surprised that Italy is reducing the number of F-35s being bought, is it the F-35A or B order that is being reduced in favour of more Typhoons?
 
They initially signed for 131, 69 F-35As and 62 F-35Bs (22 for the Navy), since then they've been on and off reducing it to 90 orders; 60 F-35A and 30 F-35B (15 for the Navy).

(So 9 A's and 25 B's cut for the Airforce, and 7 B's cut for the Navy).
 
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WatcherZero said:
Its reducing planned F-35 orders in favour of more Eurofighters. The F-35 were being built in Italy too so it isn't to favour domestic aircraft assembly, but may be favouring Italian aviation parts suppliers as well as helping to fund GCAP technologies early fielding. The other possible explanation is Eurofighter is a more efficient aircraft for routine deterrence patrols/interceptions.
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I think Cameri looks like its only going to assemble c160 odd F-35 in total. The German order is going to Fort Worth. So far its just the Italian, Swiss and the majority of the Dutch order that are going to Cameri FACO.

Wonder if it was all worthwile?
 
timmymagic said:
I think Cameri looks like its only going to assemble c160 odd F-35 in total. The German order is going to Fort Worth. So far its just the Italian, Swiss and the majority of the Dutch order that are going to Cameri FACO.

Wonder if it was all worthwile?
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I think I've read somewhere that the Poles are interested in switching some of their order to the Italian line for faster delivery.
 
red admiral said:
I don't really understand this point as GCAP would be built using different processes in different facilities with different people, and much fewer people due to increased automation, additive manufacturing etc. that's being promoted in the "factory of the future"

I find it difficult to see what will usefully be carried over from Typhoon production
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Look at Spirit and Boeing's current woes for a good example of what happens when you let your fundamental institutional knowledge evaporate.

Or the UK's L85 rifle, where reputedly no one on the design team had designed a rifle before.

You need people with the experience to say "Hang on, that sounds good, but it doesn't make sense because....", and that means paying to keep them active in the industry until you need them again,
 
Yes, but they wouldn't be Milspec rad-hardened ones. You basically had to completely redevelop a processor to get it up to Milspec standard, which you could only do once its initial design was finalised, so military processors were usually running several generations behind their civilian equivalents.
 
www.flightglobal.com

Technology enhancements to boost Eurofighter sales appeal, BAE says

BAE Systems is moving into a busy few months of flight-testing involving numerous enhancements for the Eurofighter Typhoon, as it also continues to eye further export opportunities for the type.
www.flightglobal.com www.flightglobal.com

  • 40 of RAF Tranche 3A Typhoons to receive ECRS Mk.2 and Striker II
  • new unified mission computer with 200 times the computing power compared to current Eurofighter mission computer system being developed under LTE initiative.
  • activities at BAE cocnerning Eurofighter production ensured until 2031 with confirmed orders
  • This probably points toward Samlesbury facility where the front fuselage is being manufactured. Warton final assembly facility is nearly done with their order for Qatar
 
Hello, I wonder, if the IRST System PIRATE will be updated for the customers (RAF, ItAF, SpAF etc., but not Luftwaffe and Austrian Bundesheer), or will these customers use a modern targeting pod instead? Has anyone got any unclassified information or a recent news article?
Thanks in advance for a short reply, even if my question was already answered in this topic or in another subforum here at SPF before. :)
 
As a purpose-designed air-to-air sensor, PIRATE is likely to outperform even the latest targeting pods in this regard. They are probably unable to match its range (LWIR sensor instead of imaging-optimized MWIR) or track-while-scan performance (not sure if pods even have an automatic detection capability or rely on the pilot to identify targets in the raw sensor picture).

IRST =/= FLIR!
 
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Trident said:
As a purpose-designed air-to-air sensor, PIRATE is likely to outperform even the latest targeting pods in this regard. They are probably unable to match its range (LWIR sensor instead of imaging-optimized MWIR) or track-while-scan performance (not sure if pods even have an automatic detection capability or rely on the pilot to identify targets in the raw sensor picture).

IRST =/= FLIR!
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Do you also include IRSTs of 5th or 4.75th (Kf-21) gens in your claim?
 
snne said:
Do you also include IRSTs of 5th or 4.75th (Kf-21) gens in your claim?
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Remember that the F35 has both the DAS and a separate EOTS. DAS is broadly comparable to IRST, while the EOTS is literally a Sniper pod that's been built in.
 
I think some very large fines are in order and maybe some jail time too. Requirement to register all drone users within a certain radius.
 
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Forest Green said:
Requirement to register all drone users within a certain radius.
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People have cars, the necessary radius is certainly 'Germany' and possibly 'the EU'. Not sure about Germany, but UK laws are if it has a camera, or is over 250g, then you need to register annually. How good conformance is is questionable, but it does give the CAA something* to hit rogue operators with without needing to prove they've done something particular.

* A £1000 fine.
 
DWG said:
People have cars, the necessary radius is certainly 'Germany' and possibly 'the EU'. Not sure about Germany, but UK laws are if it has a camera, or is over 250g, then you need to register annually. How good conformance is is questionable, but it does give the CAA something* to hit rogue operators with without needing to prove they've done something particular.

* A £1000 fine.
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According COMMISSION IMPLEMENTING REGULATION (EU) 2019/947 in the EU every user of drones with more than 250gr has to do an online exam, to register him self online and to add his registration number on the drone.

Implementing regulation - 2019/947 - EN - EUR-Lex

eur-lex.europa.eu eur-lex.europa.eu

Perhaps Germany has implemented this more strictly with a registration number on fireproof sign.
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