Argentinian Unbuilt Projects

[overscan (PaulMM)]

The SAIA 90 cutaway is not even vaguely official, it looks like its an edited P.530 Cobra cutaway done by forum member @Motocar.

 

[Erdosain]

WARBIRDS WALKAROUND: FMA I.Aé-27 Pulqui I​

FMA I.Aé-27 Pulqui I | warbirds

warbirdswalkaround.wixsite.com

 

[Erdosain]

The SAIA 90 cutaway is not even vaguely official, it looks like its an edited P.530 Cobra cutaway done by forum member
@Motocar.

Yes. All the hypothetical illustrations of the SAIA-90 were based on models that Dornier developed and submitted throughout the 1980s for the various German and European fighter programs that would eventually lead to the Eurofighter Typhoon.


Advertising appeared in the Aeroespacio magazine number 422 of July - August 1981. Compare with that of the MBB TFK-90


MBB TKF-90



The Dornier TFK-90 project, one of many fourth-generation fighter projects developed in West Germany in the 1980s, was the inadvertent cause of the birth of the SAIA 90 legend.



The TKF90 model presented by Dornier, on which the "last known configuration" of the SAIA 90 is based. Many times in Argentine websites and forums they put this photo as if it were the SAIA-90. Note the similarity with the F/A-18, a product of the Northrop cooperation (Photo: Dornier).



And a note from Aeroespacio about the future Dornier fighter, from which the urban myth of the appearance of the SAIA 90 is born. I suppose that based on futurology and the reflections of some clueless about what FMA could have obtained in this project, which was intended to be what the Typhoon is today... highly unlikely

 

[Motocar]

The SAIA 90 cutaway is not even vaguely official, it looks like its an edited P.530 Cobra cutaway done by forum member @Motocar.

Yes. All the hypothetical illustrations of the SAIA-90 were based on the models that Dornier was developing and presenting throughout the 80s for the different German and European fighter programs that would eventually give rise to the Eurofighter Typhoon.

Advertising appeared in the magazine Aeroespacio number 422 of July - August 1981. Compare with that of the MBB TFK-90
View attachment 693154

MBB TKF-90
View attachment 693155


The Dornier TFK-90 project, one of the many fourth-generation fighter projects developed in West Germany in the 1980s, was the inadvertent cause of the birth of the SAIA 90 legend.
View attachment 693156


The model of the TKF90 presented by Dornier, on which the "last known configuration" of the SAIA 90 is based. Many times, in Argentine websites and forums they put this photo as if it were the SAIA-90. Note the similarity with the F/A-18, a product of Northrop cooperation (Photo: Dornier).
View attachment 693157


And a note from Aeroespacio about the future Dornier fighter, from which the urban myth of the appearance of the SAIA 90 is born. I suppose that based on futurology and the musings of some clueless about what FMA could have gotten on this project, which was intended to be what today is the Typhoon....highly unlikely
View attachment 693158

View attachment 693159

Too bad I don't know published page #44 of the article from Aeroespacio magazine

 

[Erdosain]

El corte SAIA 90 ni siquiera es vagamente oficial, parece que es un corte P.530 Cobra editado hecho por el miembro del foro @Motocar.

Sí. Todas las ilustraciones hipotéticas del SAIA-90 se basaron en los modelos que Dornier fue desarrollando y presentando a lo largo de los años 80 para los diferentes programas de caza alemanes y europeos que finalmente darían lugar al Eurofighter Typhoon.

Publicidad aparecida en la revista Aeroespacio número 422 de julio - agosto de 1981. Comparar con la del MBB TFK-90
[ADJUNTAR=completo]693154[/ADJUNTAR]

MBB TKF-90
[ADJUNTAR=completo]693155[/ADJUNTAR]


El proyecto Dornier TFK-90, uno de los muchos proyectos de caza de cuarta generación desarrollados en Alemania Occidental en la década de 1980, fue la causa inadvertida del nacimiento de la leyenda SAIA 90.
[ADJUNTAR=completo]693156[/ADJUNTAR]


El modelo del TKF90 presentado por Dornier, en el que se basa la "última configuración conocida" del SAIA 90. Muchas veces en webs y foros argentinos ponen esta foto como si fuera el SAIA-90. Nótese la similitud con el F/A-18, producto de la cooperación de Northrop (Foto: Dornier).
[ADJUNTAR=completo]693157[/ADJUNTAR]


Y una nota de Aeroespacio sobre el futuro caza Dornier, del que nace el mito urbano de la aparición del SAIA 90. Supongo que basado en la futurología y las reflexiones de algunos despistados sobre lo que FMA podría haber obtenido en este proyecto, que estaba destinado a ser lo que hoy es el Typhoon ... muy poco probable
[ADJUNTAR=completo]693158[/ADJUNTAR]

[ADJUNTAR=completo]693159[/ADJUNTAR]

Lástima que no sé publicó la página #44 del artículo de la revista Aeroespacio

Ya lo corregí y lo agregué.
También puedes descargarlo desde este grupo de facebook:

Desarrollo Aeroespacial Argentino - Pasado, Presente y Futuro

www.facebook.com

https://www.facebook.com/groups/907403825971511/files/files

 

[Motocar]

El corte SAIA 90 ni siquiera es vagamente oficial, parece que es un corte P.530 Cobra editado hecho por el miembro del foro @Motocar.

Sí. Todas las ilustraciones hipotéticas del SAIA-90 se basaron en los modelos que Dornier fue desarrollando y presentando a lo largo de los años 80 para los diferentes programas de caza alemanes y europeos que finalmente darían lugar al Eurofighter Typhoon.

Publicidad aparecida en la revista Aeroespacio número 422 de julio - agosto de 1981. Comparar con la del MBB TFK-90
[ADJUNTAR=completo]693154[/ADJUNTAR]

MBB TKF-90
[ADJUNTAR=completo]693155[/ADJUNTAR]


El proyecto Dornier TFK-90, uno de los muchos proyectos de caza de cuarta generación desarrollados en Alemania Occidental en la década de 1980, fue la causa inadvertida del nacimiento de la leyenda SAIA 90.
[ADJUNTAR=completo]693156[/ADJUNTAR]


El modelo del TKF90 presentado por Dornier, en el que se basa la "última configuración conocida" del SAIA 90. Muchas veces en webs y foros argentinos ponen esta foto como si fuera el SAIA-90. Nótese la similitud con el F/A-18, producto de la cooperación de Northrop (Foto: Dornier).
[ADJUNTAR=completo]693157[/ADJUNTAR]


Y una nota de Aeroespacio sobre el futuro caza Dornier, del que nace el mito urbano de la aparición del SAIA 90. Supongo que basado en la futurología y las reflexiones de algunos despistados sobre lo que FMA podría haber obtenido en este proyecto, que estaba destinado a ser lo que hoy es el Typhoon ... muy poco probable
[ADJUNTAR=completo]693158[/ADJUNTAR]

[ADJUNTAR=completo]693159[/ADJUNTAR]

Lástima que no sé publicó la página #44 del artículo de la revista Aeroespacio

Ya lo corregí y lo agregué.
También puedes descargarlo desde este grupo de facebook:

Desarrollo Aeroespacial Argentino - Pasado, Presente y Futuro

www.facebook.com

https://www.facebook.com/groups/907403825971511/files/files

Thanks

 

[Erdosain]

Some photos that I took of the FADEA IA-100 training aircraft during its official roll out in September 2015 (or was it in October?)

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Great photos - cheers.

 

[Badner]

few more shots

 

[Erdosain]

A new book about the IA-58 Pucara

 

[Erdosain]

Algunos proyectos de aviones COIN anteriores al IA-58.

El primero fue uno desarrollado en la FMA y el segundo, el IA-55, por el IIAE.

El tipo OV-10 es más especulación que realidad.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1566581417588449281

View: https://twitter.com/RengelGonzalo/status/1566581417588449281?t=X8XwEmDKKBOGl501Uc3Zig&s=19

 

[Badner]

IA 58 fitted with a drone.

 

[Badner]

The IA 47 twin-engine transport, rather Lakethe Fokker F.27, which Argentine airlines proposed to buy c. 1960. Some dummkopf instead, chose the Avro 748.

 

[Badner]

The Orion research rocket

 

[Erdosain]

The Orion research rocket

This topic is for Argentine aircraft projects, not for rockets.

This is the topic for missiles and rockets designed in Argentina:

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/argentine-missile-projects.33307/page-2

 

[Badner]

The IA 47 bore a passing resemblance to the Fokker F.27

 

[Erdosain]

The G-III, the fully pressurized variant of the FMA IA-50 GII proposed by Ing. Ruiz in the early 70s. In 1963 there was a previous semi-pressurized Guarani III / IV project, by differential pressure. I clarify that later the Guarani name was never used again due to a copyright issue.

 

[Badner]

From Jane's All The World's Aircraft c. 1980.

 

[Erdosain]

From Jane's All The World's Aircraft c. 1980.

The public is renewed!

When I joined the topic I began to read it from page 1 to the last so as not to repeat photos, texts or fall into the same mistakes as always.

The designation IA-60 that Janes gives to that early variant of the Pucara is wrong, at that time the plane had no designation or name, it was only known as the Delfin project

In fact, there are no internal documents of the former FMA (Fabrica Militar de Aviones - Military Aircraft Factory) that name any variant of the Pucara as IA-60 or Super Pucara.

There were three variants of pucara with turbomeca Astafan turbojet

The first two are from 1969, when the project was still known as Delfin / Dolphin :

"A twin-jet aircraft for photography and aerial observation" (1969).

"A twin-jet aircraft for photography, observation and light transport" (1969)

Both did not pass the preliminary draft stage


Then in 1970 Dr Reimar Horten presented the project of a Pucará for advanced training missions and as a replacement for the Morane Saulnier MS 760 Paris. This variante was shortened in length and span:

Obviously this project did not arouse interest in the FAA as a replacement for the Morane Saulnier MS 760 Paris used for advanced training, since it did not advance beyond the theoretical studies and preliminary calculations of weights and performances.

A note about the Pucara powered by tubojets that I wrote a few years ago. It is in Spanish:

Los IA-58 Pucará a reaccion​

Los IA-58 Pucará a reaccion

Por Gonzalo Sebastian Rengel Graficos: Alejandro Klichowski El imaginario popular argentino siempre resalta el gran logro tecnológico que fueron los

www.zona-militar.com

The IA-60 designation actually corresponds to the project that follows the project of a Pucará for advanced training missions

The IA-60 was an ADVANCED TRAINER AND ATTACK AIRCRAFT, also intended as a complement and eventual replacement for the FAA A-4 Skyhawk.

But the IA-60 project was beyond the design and testing capabilities of the FMA at the time. There were capacities in certain areas that had never been had, and capacities that were available in the days of Pulqui I and II, but had been lost over the years.

For this reason, this project was discarded and a partnership with Dornier was sought to design and test the future FAA advanced jet trainer, the IA-63 Pampa.

A note about the ADVANCED TRAINER AND ATTACK AIRCRAFT FMA IA-60 that I wrote a few years ago. It is in Spanish, but I think the current Google translate works very well, and except for some specific terms, it translates the text to English very well:

El FMA IA-60​

El FMA IA-60

Por Gonzalo Sebastián Rengel para www.zona-militar.com Ilustraciones digitales de Alejandro Klichowski. El Reemplazo del París y la Formación de un Nuevo

www.zona-militar.com

 

[Erdosain]

Another hypothetical representation of the SAIA-90

 

[Erdosain]

If the administrators agree, I can upload the PDF of the Alas de Peron Book in parts, it is almost 30 years old, a second updated edition came out with more data, and both editions are out of stock.

 

[Voltzz]

IA 58 fitted with a drone.

The drone is the MQ-2 Biguá developed by Quimar in cooperation with Meteor (Aeritalia) based on the Mirach 100. Together with the launch aircraft and the ground control station it formed the Halcón del Sur reconnaissance system.
More detail (in spanish) here.

 

[Erdosain]

The drone is the MQ-2 Biguá developed by Quimar in cooperation with Meteor (Aeritalia) based on the Mirach 100. Together with the launch aircraft and the ground control station it formed the Halcón del Sur reconnaissance system.
More detail (in spanish) here.

More about Quimar and its drones. The articles are in Spanish and English on each page

 

[Erdosain]

Two 3-view drawings of this little-known project of an advanced attack aircraft of the FMA. Originally designated IA-63 Phase 5, then IA-68 in 1984, and again "IA-63 Advanced of Intermediate Attack" in 1989, perhaps because that designation passed to the canceled ATL

FMA IA-68, 1984

Advanced A-63 for Intermediate Attack, 1989

https://twitter.com/x/status/1727703331647156497

View: https://twitter.com/RengelGonzalo/status/1727703331647156497

 

[F.L.]

Does anyone know more about this aircraft ?
It looks like a single-seater IA-67.

 

[Erdosain]

Does anyone know more about this aircraft ?
It looks like a single-seater IA-67.
View attachment 713596

It is the glider version of the IA-58 Pucara, built at the beginning of the program, when the project was known as Delfin, to test its characteristics in flight. They had the advice and help of Reimar Horten

 

[Phantom Fanatic]

Two 3-view drawings of this little-known project of an advanced attack aircraft of the FMA. Originally designated IA-63 Phase 5, then IA-68 in 1984, and again "IA-63 Advanced of Intermediate Attack" in 1989, perhaps because that designation passed to the canceled ATL

FMA IA-68, 1984

A-63 Advanced of Intermediate Attack, 1989

https://twitter.com/x/status/1727703331647156497

View: https://twitter.com/RengelGonzalo/status/1727703331647156497

Interesting. It looks heavily inspired by the AMX International/A-11 Ghibli light attack aircraft from Brazil and Italy.

 

[Erdosain]

Si los administradores están de acuerdo puedo subir el PDF del Libro Alas de Perón por partes, tiene casi 30 años, salió una segunda edición actualizada con más datos y ambas ediciones están agotadas.

Esto es lo que prometí, lo voy a subir por partes.

Saludos

 

[Petrus]

And now more info on the Pallavicino's projects. They never had any official designation, so they remain known as Project 1 and Project 2.

The Project 1, a radical modification of the IAe-30 Nancu (also designed by Pallavicino) was to be a "heavy fighter", in a class of the Gloster Meteor: one-seater, two Rolls-Royce Derwent V engines each producing 3.500 lb static thrust. The plane was to have been armed with four Hispano-Suiza 20mm automatic cannon.

Here are its specifications:

Wing span: 15,00m
Length: 13,98 m
Height: 4,383 m
Wing area: 35,3 m2
Empty weight: 4.225 kg
All-up weight: 7.950 kg
Wing loading: 225 kg/sq.m

Max. speed @ SL: 910 kph
Max. speed @ 9150 m: 970 kph
Climbing speed @ SL: 26 mps
Climb speed to 9150 m: 8'22"
Ceiling: 15.240m

3 tons of fuel
range 2.300 km

Project 2 was conceived as a light bomber. Two crew: the pilot and the navigator, who was to be seated in a glazed nose or behind the pilot (in such a case the nose would remain solid as in the attached drawing). Armament included four Hispano-Suiza cannon and two bombs of 900 or 1000 kg each in an internal bomb bay. It could also carry twenty 75mm air-to-ground rockets.

Specifications of the Project 2:

Wing span: 18,70 m
Length: 14,00m
Height: 4,65 m
Wing area: 46,65 sq.m
Wing loading: 280 kg/sq.m
Empty weight: 6.500 kg
All-up weight: 13.070 kg

Max. speed @ SL: 810 kph
Max. speed @ 9150 m: 870 kph
Climbing speed: 15,2 mps
Climb time to: 9150 m in 15'55"
Ceiling: 12.200 m

Range with 4 t of fuel and 2 t of bombs: 3.300 km

And finally below you may have a look at the Pallavicino's aircraft drawings (poor quality of the scans is an effect of my scanner's malfunction, for which I am sorry).

[source: Italian magazine "Aero Fan" n. 61, April- June 1997]

Best regards,
Piotr

This time you've got a drawing of the Pallavicino's Project 1.

Source: (Polish) "Militaria" magazine. Special Issue 3 (78)/2023

 

[Erdosain]

Interesting. It looks heavily inspired by the AMX International/A-11 Ghibli light attack aircraft from Brazil and Italy.

Yes, they have a great resemblance and it is evidently inspired by him.

I suppose Argentina could have joined that project, but the engine and other components of English origin made it unviable at that time.

 

[Erdosain]

This time you've got a drawing of the Pallavicino's Project 1.

Source: (Polish) "Militaria" magazine. Special Issue 3 (78)/2023

Santiago Rivas, a journalist and aeronautical writer well known in Argentina and Latin America, who already published the book on the Pucara in English, is preparing an extensive book in English on the FMA/DINFIA/LMAASA/FADEA that will be published during the course of this year. , so I guess there we will see more plans and images about this and other projects.

The book will cover the period from 1927 to the present.

 

[Stargazer]

Santiago Rivas, a journalist and aeronautical writer well known in Argentina and Latin America, who already published the book on the Pucara in English, is preparing an extensive book in English on the FMA/DINFIA/LMAASA/FADEA that will be published during the course of this year. , so I guess there we will see more plans and images about this and other projects.

The book will cover the period from 1927 to the present.

Can't wait to see this one! Hope it will be possible to order it.

 

[Jason Dykstra (Wyvern)]

I suppose Argentina could have joined that project, but the engine and other components of English origin made it unviable at that time.

Not necessarily, the Italians and Brazilians had explored various means of upgrading the powerplant of the AMX. Most of these were generally uprated Speys, RB199 and even EJ200 at one point, but none entered service. Maybe the involvement of Argentina would have changed things. Who knows?

 

[Erdosain]

Study for a transport aircraft with 36 passengers or six tons of cargo. Powered by four "El Indio" engines, it is probably a variant of the IA-47.

 

[robunos]

Hmmm . . . Halifax meets Hermes meets Junkers 290 . . .

cheers,
Robin.

 

[Petrus]

Study for a transport aircraft with 36 passengers or six tons of cargo. Powered by four "El Indio" engines, it is probably a variant of the IA-47.

I wonder what the ramp of this 'cuatrimotor' really was. Was it an integral airstairs for passangers, something like some variants of Convair 240 did actually have? Or rather was it a real loading ramp for cargo, similar to the Trapoklappe known from transport versions of Ju-290?
The ramp seems to be quite wide, too wide for ordinary airstairs imho. So perhaps 'Trapoklappe' hypothesis is more probable (?) and the 'cuatrimotor' could have been used also as a transport plane, even in military roles (vehicle carrying, paratroop and supply drops etc.)

 

[Erdosain]

Hmmm . . . Halifax meets Hermes meets Junkers 290 . . .

cheers,
Robin.

The IA-47 was a Kurt Tank project...

 

[Erdosain]

DINFIA IA-35 Bastan

Redesign of the IA-35 Huanquero that would eventually lead to the IA-50 GII. It was intended to change the I.Ae R-19 "El Indio" radial engines for the French Turbomeca Bastan III turboprops.

Horten, supposedly, was in charge of the lengthening of the fuselage, design and calculation of the engine mount and the introduction of new avionics in the cockpit

 

[Erdosain]

I wonder what the ramp of this 'cuatrimotor' really was. Was it an integral airstairs for passangers, something like some variants of Convair 240 did actually have? Or rather was it a real loading ramp for cargo, similar to the Trapoklappe known from transport versions of Ju-290?
The ramp seems to be quite wide, too wide for ordinary airstairs imho. So perhaps 'Trapoklappe' hypothesis is more probable (?) and the 'cuatrimotor' could have been used also as a transport plane, even in military roles (vehicle carrying, paratroop and supply drops etc.)

I would have to look at the book "Alas de Peron II" to see what it says about that ramp and the IA-47

 

[Erdosain]

From Interavia 1960,

what was this ?.

According to thedrawing, it is a launchable model of the FMA IA-50 8-seater executive jet, from 1959.
Let us remember that this project did not go beyond this phase and the designation IA-50 passed to the Guarani II, the evolution of the IA-35 Huanquero equipped with turboprops.