Air Defense Anti-Tank System (ADATS)

I thought ADATs had an HE warhead to do more damage to aircraft, because it was a pure KE missile for tanks?

It was an high penetration hollow charge with a fragmentation liner, like an oversized HEDP round. It's probably comparable to Kornet.

A similar missile with similar range, speed, and growth capability, without the anti-tank warhead, would have been about 4" to 5" diameter probably. Crotale being similar in size to ADATS, but lacking the bizarre (and heavy) anti-tank warhead, had a lot more growth room. Which is why Crotale is still in production and still being upgraded while ADATS is a museum piece.

The placement on the battlefield of an air defense vehicle and an anti-tank vehicle are rarely coincidental though, which is why ADATS's design decisions were somewhat schizophrenic: it would never be able to function as both an air defense or an anti-tank system. It would be one or the other, and hardly anyone would use ADATS as an anti-armor system, because it was too valuable.

The entire FAADS program was a bit schizo in hindsight tbh, excluding Avenger, which is the only piece that turned out okay.
 
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It's interesting that Longbow Hellfire is being rolled into IM-SHORADS as an anti-aircraft weapon against helicopters and some fixed-wing aircraft, not just a secondary anti-armor capability. It's not fast like ADATS, but fast enough to be useful at least. JAGM may also pick up the same role.

 
The placement on the battlefield of an air defense vehicle and an anti-tank vehicle are rarely coincidental though, which is why ADATS's design decisions were somewhat schizophrenic: it would never be able to function as both an air defense or an anti-tank system. It would be one or the other, and hardly anyone would use ADATS as an anti-armor system, because it was too valuable
Not really.

The US Army planned on having the AdaTs embedded with the Abrams and Bradley being right on the FLOT.

It had to be due to it short range of 10 kilometers, and line of sight limits of the laser. To defend against Helicopters and Jets it needed to be basically right next to what it protects. Rather that be an Armor Formation or the Locol Toc.

So odds of it coming across an enemy tank or armor vehicle of some type skyrocket.

Meaning that the AT part of ADATs would have come in immensely handy in being able to tell the enemy armor to screw off long enough to hide behind the nearest Abrams.

Heck thinking on it the SHORAD Stryker is basically going to have the same set up and similar abilities due to using the Longbow hellfire missile. And plans are to get enough to cover the maneuver formations with the Plan Shorad system being set up in the slower formations.
 
It's interesting that Longbow Hellfire is being rolled into IM-SHORADS as an anti-aircraft weapon against helicopters and some fixed-wing aircraft, not just a secondary anti-armor capability. It's not fast like ADATS, but fast enough to be useful at least. JAGM may also pick up the same role.


I'd imagine it's for lobbing at helicopters dipping behind cover, tbf, like Ka-52s and stuff. The radar seeker is useful for that.

Longbow Hellfire's seeker needed some software upgrades to get it to home on helicopter rotor signatures, as opposed to tank signatures, but it worked out in the end. Just give it a kill box and lob it.

So odds of it coming across an enemy tank or armor vehicle of some type skyrocket.

It's a very silly missile designed by silly people that is too expensive to be both a good SAM and an ATGW, because it is a combination.
 
It's a very silly missile designed by silly people that is too expensive to be both a good SAM and an ATGW, because it is a combination

It wasn't much more expensive over similar high end missiles like the Javelin, and the Crotale both of which were only cheaper by a few thousand per unit price in 90s money. Bout 198k per missile compare to Javelin 176k. Which is similar to the Starsteak missile 90s 187k USD cost.

Not help by being made in limited numbers compare to the other three. Economy of scales would lave likely brought it down alot.

As is it work and did exactly what was wanted with solid performance. Probably would still have it if not for it bad timing and US Army short sight nature.
 
Not really.

The US Army planned on having the AdaTs embedded with the Abrams and Bradley being right on the FLOT.

It had to be due to it short range of 10 kilometers, and line of sight limits of the laser. To defend against Helicopters and Jets it needed to be basically right next to what it protects. Rather that be an Armor Formation or the Locol Toc.

So odds of it coming across an enemy tank or armor vehicle of some type skyrocket.

Meaning that the AT part of ADATs would have come in immensely handy in being able to tell the enemy armor to screw off long enough to hide behind the nearest Abrams.

Heck thinking on it the SHORAD Stryker is basically going to have the same set up and similar abilities due to using the Longbow hellfire missile. And plans are to get enough to cover the maneuver formations with the Plan Shorad system being set up in the slower formations.
Okay, that makes sense. Rather have the missiles be dual-capable than to have to have some AT missiles taking up space that could be used for AA if tanks never show up.
 
Here's several of videos about ADATS that I found:


The Air Defense Anti-Tank System (ADATS) is a dual-purpose short range surface-to-air and anti-tank missile system based on the M113A2 vehicle. It is manufactured by the Swiss company Oerlikon-Contraves, a member of the Rheinmetall Defence Group of Germany.


Developed to provide US tank units with adequate protection against Soviet attack helicopters and jets following the failure of the DIVAD program's M247 Sergeant York, the Air Defense Anti-Tank System or ADATS was a revolutionary multi-purpose design. It could effectively engage just about any vehicle out there, and it worked quite well. But if it was so effective, why didn't the Army adopt it?


This video shows several tests of the ADATS against a number of armored and aircraft drones. The ADATS was designed to be a multi-purpose system for Forward Area Air Defense and capable of serving as an anti-tank/anti-armor asset for commanders on the ground. The ADATS was tested at WSMR, but it was never moved to production due to performance issues in sub-optimal conditions.
Test dates are as follows: 23 March 1984, 29 March 1984, 06 April 1984, 11 April 1984.
 
Okay, that makes sense. Rather have the missiles be dual-capable than to have to have some AT missiles taking up space that could be used for AA if tanks never show up.

TBF, having a separate anti-tank and air defense missile might seriously have helped ADATS see service. Reducing the cost of the munition buys would help other NATO countries pay for buy-in. Even the risk of an ADA battery being attacked by tanks, even within a couple kilometers of a combat, is rather low. That's usually only happening because the friendly tanks, and friendly infantry, are all dead. It's more likely they'd be attacked by mortars or rocket artillery or something.

ADATS was mostly a victim of vanishing air defense threats, sure, but the lack of foreign buys due to its unit cost didn't help.

It wasn't much more expensive over similar high end missiles like the Javelin, and the Crotale both of which were only cheaper by a few thousand per unit price in 90s money. Bout 198k per missile compare to Javelin 176k. Which is similar to the Starsteak missile 90s 187k USD cost.

Not help by being made in limited numbers compare to the other three. Economy of scales would lave likely brought it down alot.

Crotale NG/VT-1 Liberty didn't have any economy of scales behind it. It used an entirely new fire control system and missile. It still found buyers in Greece, Korea, and Finland, while ADATS only found Canadian buyers due to the American-Canadian MIC integration, just like how all Strykers are made in Ontario.

It really was mostly down to cost, AIUI, and it was a snap decision anyway.

Given the outcome of ADATS and its design, compared to the outcome of Crotale, not buying the Liberty VT-1 was the real short sighted move.
 
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TBF, having a separate anti-tank and air defense missile might seriously have helped ADATS see service. Reducing the cost of the munition buys would help other NATO countries pay for buy-in. Even the risk of an ADA battery being attacked by tanks, even within a couple kilometers of a combat, is rather low. That's usually only happening because the friendly tanks, and friendly infantry, are all dead. It's more likely they'd be attacked by mortars or rocket artillery or something.
You did see that between system range and control limitations, ADATS was going to have to be right up front, inside the units it is assigned to protect, right?
 
You did see that between system range and control limitations, ADATS was going to have to be right up front, inside the units it is assigned to protect, right?

ADATS has an air range against helicopters of around 8 km, so not really. It's much further ranged than Chaparral and VADS, which is what it was going to replace wholesale, while the Avengers would be used for rear air defense in the division. Two Avenger squads were also in the OTOE and would have been scattered around the battalion rear area to intercept air assault troops.

They're attached to brigades in platoons and each battalion might receive a single Linebacker, or you could push them an echelon lower, and each company gets a Linebacker instead. Because Linebacker Battalions were DIVAD (Division Air Defense), they would have had a BTOE of 24 MIM-146 Linebackers in M113s (initial) before OTOE of MIM-146 on the Bradley hull, for an entire division. That blew up in 1992. It was kind of surprising. Dudes were rolling in Brads with Stingers instead, but the same doctrine and BOI was used, because everyone involved had already wrote books on using MIM-146 in action.

A single Linebacker in the battalion would be hovering around the battalion CP, which is not exactly a frontline combat zone (or at least it shouldn't be, unless you're fighting the Red Army and they're assaulting you with helicopters), and the task forces already have TONS of anti-tank weapons in the form of TOW and Javelin anyway. In the company, which was the heavier frontal air defense job, its primary target would be Su-25s and Mi-28/Ka-50 at 5-6 km range, with the goofy little 25mm for covering the ~a mile dead zone, and if you're firing at tanks you're just wasting ammo.

Having the ability to fire a very long range anti-tank missile isn't going to change anything materially, either for the battalion or a company writ large. Rather, it's just going to encourage the lieutenant colonel or captain to be a lunatic who sites his ADATS as an anti-armor weapon, instead of an air defense weapon, which is probably a reasonable concern and perhaps a big reason why FAADS-NLOS and FAADS-LOS-R lived while FAADS-LOS-H died.

ADATS was a really good weapon system for its time but the inclusion of the anti-armor warhead was a silly design choice by Oerlikon.
 
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The problem with Avenger and (to a degree) Hellfire is simply range. Ka-52s are doing a turkey shoot from 10km+ and Ukraine (and by extension NATO) has no SHORAD answer. Hellfire is quoted at 11km range (Wikipedia) but one can imagine its effectiveness at range against air targets is really questionable.

An ADATs like solution will be necessary to stop stand-off attack helicopters, when air cover is not available, which seems likely when modern SAMs are involved.
 
Yes, my point was that ADATS had neither the growth potential nor the range to seriously threaten modern helicopters.

Crotale VT-1 barely reached 10 km. Crotale Mk. 3 goes further. ADATS was shorter range mostly because it had a heavier, dual purpose warhead, and a smaller, shorter motor, which are immutable problems. ADATS was growth maxed as soon as its production run started. I guess you could squeeze another couple km out of it by giving it a lighter frag or CRW warhead, but that really should have been done from the start.

It's a weird missile, and the Liberty was always better, but the US Army never really liked French missiles and the laser guidance was cool.

"ADATS-like" is a somewhat meaningless statement considering the only useful parts of ADATS were the velocity, which is equivocated by the Crotale, and the guidance method, which could probably be backfit from Martlet to Crotale by Thales. It was designed, and specified, to attack Mi-24 gunships at 5-6 kilometers using the Kokon and Ataka. It was okay in the '80's, but it's not good these days, and was only good as an anti-tank missile after Vikhr showed up.
 
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The ADATs launcher and targeting system can be adopted to longer range, Linebacker/Avenger are capped by small form-factor.

In that sense, ADATs offers a decent starting point.
 
The ADATs launcher and targeting system can be adopted to longer range, Linebacker/Avenger are capped by small form-factor.

TWQ-1 can fire Starstreaks and, presumably, Martlet. That's growth. M6 doesn't exist anymore, so it's not very relevant.

In that sense, ADATs offers a decent starting point.

ADATS was Linebacker...

All of this is relatively historical though. ADATS doesn't exist anymore. Crotale VT-1 does, and has since been further upgraded, to the Mk 3. Any future US ADA mobile SHORAD for a brigade/battalion will probably lean towards Crotale, or possibly CAMM, assuming it doesn't just use a Sea Sparrow I guess.

I'm just saying that dodging the ADATS was probably a good thing in the long run because it was a weird system with weird qualities, because people seem to think it was a good choice. I guess it was, if you only intended to fight Kokons and Atakas which had a range of 5 kilometers, but against Vikhr with 10 kilometer range it would be marginal capability and we'd be back at square one, with little to no capacity to improve.

The FAADS threat was defined as a Mi-24 with a Kokon or Ataka, which were the standard Soviet heliborne ATGW in 1985, as Vikhr didn't exist yet. By the time Vikhr shows up in 1992, ADATS is gearing up for production, while the ADA Branch was looking like it'd made a mistake.

ADATS isn't Sergeant York, but it's not very good aside from the laser guidance method, for modern threats. Crotale VT-1 would be barely adequate against Vikhr equipped gunships but it's also a got a meter on ADATS' rocket motor and its warhead is lighter for the payload fraction. Nearly a quarter of the mass of ADATS is devoted to the dual purpose warhead. Less than 1/5th of Crotale's mass goes into the directed-blast warhead, though.

It was good for a time period until the introduction of Vikhr, but the ADA probably should have been thinking about 10 km, instead of sticking to the DIVAD's ~6 km range. This is one of many criticisms you can make of the branch at the time though: they didn't really understand the need of frontline, mechanized air defense and it showed up a lot in these decisions.

If ADATS had shown up in 1982 instead of 1992 it would have been an all around excellent air defense system. Unfortunately it showed up around the time Vikhr did and was outdated before it entered service, with little possibility of improvement, due to the nature of the weapon.
 
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Ka-52s shooting targets at well over 10km with what? Vikhr maxes out at around 10km as does Hellfire IIRC. The range of ADATS is approximately 10km as well. Circumstances are still going to dictate that attack helicopters will often have to engage at distances shorter than the maximum range of their missiles anyway.

Selecting ADATS doesn't seem like it was a mistake to me. The problem was the threat collapsed and it was an easy target for cuts which is generally always a true statement for Army Air Defense.
 
TWQ-1 can fire Starstreaks and, presumably, Martlet. That's growth. M6 doesn't exist anymore, so it's not very relevant.



ADATS was Linebacker...
The M6 Bradley with stingers in the missile box is called Linebacker.
 
The M6 Bradley with stingers in the missile box is called Linebacker.

The name Linebacker was chosen for the ADATS in 1991 after a poll of ADA troops. The BSFV merely adopted it.

Selecting ADATS doesn't seem like it was a mistake to me. The problem was the threat collapsed and it was an easy target for cuts which is generally always a true statement for Army Air Defense.

It doesn't seem like a mistake because ADATS was never tested against Vikhr, obviously. It was simulated against Kokon/Ataka.

Ka-52s shooting targets at well over 10km with what?

No one has said this. Vikhr has a range of about 10 km. This is about 25% longer than ADATS on a typical day.

The range of ADATS is approximately 10km as well.

No, it's around 7-8 kilometers. It's comparable to Rapier in general except it has a heavier, dual-purpose warhead and a faster rocket motor. Liberty was the only air defense system in the FAADS LOS-F-H competition that had a double digit kilometer range.

Of course Liberty was the biggest and heaviest of the competitors.

Circumstances are still going to dictate that attack helicopters will often have to engage at distances shorter than the maximum range of their missiles anyway.

None of which would be beneficial to ADATS...

The purpose of ADATS was pretty simple. A helicopter pops up on a treeline about 5-6 km away, fires a ATGW, and the air defense system responds with a counter missile that reaches the helicopter before the ATGW reaches the tank or fire unit. It's the exact same as Sgt. York except it involves a missile instead of a gun.


The problem was the threat collapsed and it was an easy target for cuts which is generally always a true statement for Army Air Defense.

Yes, that's why the Air Defense Artillery received literal millions through the 1990's to develop the FOG-M and EFOGM and the TWQ-1?

The actual reason is ADATS was a missile version of the Sergeant York. It was highly unreliable, somewhat short ranged, and a backwards weapon compared to literally imminent future threats. It's a thing that would have been outdated by the time it entered production. That's why CSA Vuono and the OSD talked to ADA about it and they all agreed to kill it in FY92. Before that, the Army had pushed back its plan to enter ADATS into LRIP in FY91 to FY93, pending the outcome of the RD&E program to fix the system.

And FWIW, no the "threat" didn't disappear. Expectations of threat air defense development in the 1990's were similar to the 1980's, with a greater emphasis on post-Soviet Russian export of weapons to the Third World to compensate for the lack of internal tax revenues of the USSR, including the Mi-28 and Ka-50, and proliferation of advanced combat weapons like the Su-25T and Vikhr as opposed to the Mi-35 and Kokon/Ataka.

In some ways, the projected air defense environment anticipated in the early 1990's was worse than it was in the 1980's. The Soviet Union had a scary air assault force, but that was one theater of one continent of one highly unlikely war. The Russians were threatening to turn every Tom, Dick, and Hussein into miniature forms of its own airborne forces just to keep their lights on, which means you could face a Soviet-style and Soviet-grade air threat from Iraq, Serbia, or Libya in the coming decades.

tl;dr ADATS died mostly because of internal Army reasons, not because "the politicians" killed it because "the threat" had "vanished".

The threat existed, and still exists, and the need for a short-range missile is still fairly important these days. The problem is that short range has gone from being 7-8 km in the 1980's to more like 20-30 km in the 2010's. How do you intend to fight a system like Israeli Spike-NLOS, the Indian NAG-SANT, or Russian LMUR without genuine BLOS capability? You really can't.

We'd still be stuck with ADATS today if we had bought it and it's unlikely it would provide much utility because the motor is very small and the warhead is very heavy. You'd need a new missile to reach what VT-1 did, and to go to what Mk 3 Crotale does, you'd need an entirely new combat system. We'll leave out that it's laser guided and thus incapable of proper BLOS, while a radar guided missile can theoretically do CEC.

I don't even know what ADATS would do in the IAMD architecture. It's not radar guided so it's not like a Patriot or Sentinel can just tell an ADATS to attack a target the launcher can't see. You'd need some goofball laser- and radio-dual datalink and nobody is gonna fund that, they'd just tell you to stick a AMRAAM on a Bradley or something.
 
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In some ways, the projected air defense environment anticipated in the early 1990's was worse than it was in the 1980's. The Soviet Union had a scary air assault force, but that was one theater of one continent of one highly unlikely war. The Russians were threatening to turn every Tom, Dick, and Hussein into miniature forms of its own airborne forces just to keep their lights on, which means you could face a Soviet-style and Soviet-grade air threat from Iraq, Serbia, or Libya in the coming decades.
As it was, the US did expect a Soviet-grade air and ground threat from Iraq in 1991. Everyone was kinda mind-blown when Iraq was toast in 3 days, and most of the US Army was halfway to Baghdad.
 
No one has said this. Vikhr has a range of about 10 km. This is about 25% longer than ADATS on a typical day.

No, it's around 7-8 kilometers. It's comparable to Rapier in general except it has a heavier, dual-purpose warhead and a faster rocket motor. Liberty was the only air defense system in the FAADS LOS-F-H competition that had a double digit kilometer range.

Of course Liberty was the biggest and heaviest of the competitors.
The sources I have seen cite a 10km maximum range, 7km ceiling, and an 8km effective range against "fast moving" targets which would be fixed wing aircraft. There probably isn't a lot of room for growth there but I'd have to expect there would still be some. A Ka-52 won't be lobbing a Vikhr 10km from treetop height, it would have to be at an altitude where it is dangerously exposed. Both missiles are pretty much at the edge of their range at around 10km.

None of which would be beneficial to ADATS...
The purpose of ADATS was pretty simple. A helicopter pops up on a treeline about 5-6 km away, fires a ATGW, and the air defense system responds with a counter missile that reaches the helicopter before the ATGW reaches the tank or fire unit. It's the exact same as Sgt. York except it involves a missile instead of a gun.
And it could still be doing that in most cases, the primary exception being beyond line-of-sight missiles like Spike NLOS. If Gepards and Tunguskas are still useful on the battlefield then ADATS would be too.

Yes, that's why the Air Defense Artillery received literal millions through the 1990's to develop the FOG-M and EFOGM and the TWQ-1?
You mean two systems that were never fielded in significant numbers (300 missiles for EFOGM) and one which is quite simple in comparison to Sgt. York or ADATS?

The actual reason is ADATS was a missile version of the Sergeant York. It was highly unreliable, somewhat short ranged, and a backwards weapon compared to literally imminent future threats. It's a thing that would have been outdated by the time it entered production. That's why CSA Vuono and the OSD talked to ADA about it and they all agreed to kill it in FY92. Before that, the Army had pushed back its plan to enter ADATS into LRIP in FY91 to FY93, pending the outcome of the RD&E program to fix the system.
So ADATS was outdated because of stand-off missiles that didn't see much widespread use until the 2010s but relying solely on Stingers was an acceptable solution? I can't follow the logic there.

Capabilities aside the VT-1 wasn't ready in time for the FAAD LOS-F-H selection and using the basic Crotale in its place for trials wasn't going to do a good job of selling the system to the Army.

tl;dr ADATS died mostly because of internal Army reasons, not because "the politicians" killed it because "the threat" had "vanished".
Cuts had to come from somewhere and ADA has a history of being an appealing target for them. And yes the call for cuts was coming from the politicians and public largely due to the collapse of the Soviet Union regardless of how many weapon systems Russia would be exporting.

The threat existed, and still exists, and the need for a short-range missile is still fairly important these days. The problem is that short range has gone from being 7-8 km in the 1980's to more like 20-30 km in the 2010's. How do you intend to fight a system like Israeli Spike-NLOS, the Indian NAG-SANT, or Russian LMUR without genuine BLOS capability? You really can't.

We'd still be stuck with ADATS today if we had bought it and it's unlikely it would provide much utility because the motor is very small and the warhead is very heavy. You'd need a new missile to reach what VT-1 did, and to go to what Mk 3 Crotale does, you'd need an entirely new combat system. We'll leave out that it's laser guided and thus incapable of proper BLOS, while a radar guided missile can theoretically do CEC.

Being "stuck" with ADATS even 30 years later is a still a lot better than the measure that was throwing a quad box of Stingers on the M2 and calling it a day. Yes new stand-off threats have appeared in that time that need to be considered. Yet the Army seems to believe there is a role for a strictly short range system too as seen by the SHORAD Stryker.

I'd agree with you that the VT-1 had the potential to be a better system in the long-run that has some capability against stand-off threats that other systems lack. But ADATS would still have been quite a potent short range air defense system.
 
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This document makes brief mention that ADATS (LOS-F-H) would be fitted to an ASM variant during a future Block II upgrade. Putting it on the heavy protection level hull could have made for an interesting vehicle.
 

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This document makes brief mention that ADATS (LOS-F-H) would be fitted to an ASM variant during a future Block II upgrade. Putting it on the heavy protection level hull could have made for an interesting vehicle.
Where?

Though seeing the whole package of vehicles for the ASM generation of Abrams/Bradley replacement is interesting. Almost all the vehicles are on the heavy chassis... And finally the US was planning on a heavily armored Combat Engineering Vehicle!
 
Probably this.


This has always seemed a bit too good to be true. It had the advantage of being strictly conceptual; they never built hardware.
The basic idea is a pretty good one in my opinion but there are some details that definitely seem off, the missile canisters seem too small for example, I doubt you could really fit six per launcher like that.

Where?

Though seeing the whole package of vehicles for the ASM generation of Abrams/Bradley replacement is interesting. Almost all the vehicles are on the heavy chassis... And finally the US was planning on a heavily armored Combat Engineering Vehicle!
It's briefly mentioned on the part that covers the FAAD LOS-F-H which is under the BFV variant section. I still think abandoning ASM as we did and chasing after FCS dreams was quite the mistake.
 
It's briefly mentioned on the part that covers the FAAD LOS-F-H which is under the BFV variant section. I still think abandoning ASM as we did and chasing after FCS dreams was quite the mistake.
I honestly do grok why FCS was wanted, it's basically for "colonial interventions" that we expected to be the primary conflict type after the fall of the USSR, but the APS tech just wasn't there. I'm not sure it's there yet today, some 20 years later.

As is, I expect that tanks in the 2040s will have multiple APS on them. Multiple soft kill, multiple hard kill. And obviously a way to deal with top attack projectiles.
 
I honestly do grok why FCS was wanted, it's basically for "colonial interventions" that we expected to be the primary conflict type after the fall of the USSR, but the APS tech just wasn't there. I'm not sure it's there yet today, some 20 years later.

As is, I expect that tanks in the 2040s will have multiple APS on them. Multiple soft kill, multiple hard kill. And obviously a way to deal with top attack projectiles.
Yes we should be trying to achieve a "layered" APS with both soft and hard kill elements. First the soft kill systems to fool and divert an incoming missile and then the hard kill if that fails or the missile is still inbound on a trajectory where it is going to hit. The hard kill element should have multiple reloads ready and if in a bad spot the crew should also have the option to fire off multi-spectral smoke too.

APS is really the only realistic way to provide protection against top attack weaponry since armoring the top of the tank as well as the front would result in a tank weighing something like double that of an Abrams. That's not to say some additional top armor (I think one of the Leopard 2 upgrades adds this for example) wouldn't be useful. It might allow the vehicle to shrug off a DPICM bomblet hit or similar, but it won't be enough to stop a real ATGM nor will any of the improvised solutions like all the cage-type setups we've seen in Ukraine.
 
Yes we should be trying to achieve a "layered" APS with both soft and hard kill elements. First the soft kill systems to fool and divert an incoming missile and then the hard kill if that fails or the missile is still inbound on a trajectory where it is going to hit. The hard kill element should have multiple reloads ready and if in a bad spot the crew should also have the option to fire off multi-spectral smoke too.

APS is really the only realistic way to provide protection against top attack weaponry since armoring the top of the tank as well as the front would result in a tank weighing something like double that of an Abrams. That's not to say some additional top armor (I think one of the Leopard 2 upgrades adds this for example) wouldn't be useful. It might allow the vehicle to shrug off a DPICM bomblet hit or similar, but it won't be enough to stop a real ATGM nor will any of the improvised solutions like all the cage-type setups we've seen in Ukraine.
My mental model is that of a naval ship: They have ESSM, then RAM, then CIWS for hard-kill APS. Trophy roughly correlates to ESSM as a relatively long-ranged APS (Quick Kill was better conceptually but never really proved itself). Mid-range is something like Arena. And the last-ditch CIWS equivalent is Iron Curtain.

Then warships have RBOC, jammers, and decoys for soft-kill. Tanks don't really have jammers or decoys yet, but they do have smoke/chaff. The closest thing to a Jammer in current production is the Shtora system, which does seem to work according to reports out of Ukraine. No decoys at all.

On top of all that, tanks will need laser warning receivers, radar warning receivers, missile approach and warning systems, and maybe even DIRCM.

All those systems add up in cost and weight... You think the Korean K2 was expensive, wait till you see the pricetag of the Abrams Replacement!
 
one thing I don’t understand is how come ADATS has such awesome range for its size?. I mean it is roughly the size of AGM-114, yet can reach around the same range while moving more than double the speed of AGM-114. How come ?
 
one thing I don’t understand is how come ADATS has such awesome range for its size?. I mean it is roughly the size of AGM-114, yet can reach around the same range while moving more than double the speed of AGM-114. How come ?
Wouldn't ADATS be a laser beam-rider unlike Hellfire which is semi-active laser homing? That probably helps since you don't have to worry about putting a sensor in the nose. Hellfire also has multiple attack modes some of which necessitate sharply pitching up and then diving down towards the target. By comparison ADATS would pretty much be going in a straight line. I'd have to assume the rocket motors are optimized a bit differently considering these differences.
 

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