USAF/USN 6th Gen Fighters - F/A-XX, F-X, NGAD, PCA, ASFS News & Analysis [2008- 2025]

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robunos said:
As regards NGAD, it may have to happen (a common airframe), purely on budgetary grounds . . .

cheers,
Robin.
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A saying comes to mind. "There's never time (money) to do it right but there's always time to do it over." (See F-111B/ F-14.)
 
quellish said:
Without going into the how's/why's, It is literally not an aircraft program. IE not a specific aircraft or (directly) aviation related.
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I'll take your word for it, but it would be nice to get a clue then why FA-XX has been added to the same PE.
 
quellish said:
Without going into the how's/why's, It is literally not an aircraft program. IE not a specific aircraft or (directly) aviation related.
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So why is OP-680, Naval Aviation Carrier Branch in charge of it? That strongly suggests that LINK PLUMERIA is either an aircraft or a carrier/system program.
 
Scott Kenny said:
So why is OP-680, Naval Aviation Carrier Branch in charge of it? That strongly suggests that LINK PLUMERIA is either an aircraft or a carrier/system program.
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Just realized that it could be fancy catapults, arresting gear, or an advanced optical landing system..


Forest Green said:
What are the F-X, PCA and ASFS?
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Isn't F-X the Korean program?
PCA was an old name for what became NGAD.
no clue about ASFS, sorry.
 
Hope they're going to put in a big order for spares with NGAD.

Sweet tech is the Bark, but manageable attrition is the Bite.
 
Q-nimbus said:
Somebody over at DLR noticed an interesting shape on the apron at Tonopah. While it’s impossible to asses what it is, it looks like it’s an unknown platform. It’s very similar to the X47A except that the X47A is much smaller.

Very interesting.

https://apps.sentinel-hub.com/eo-browser/?zoom=18&lat=37.80563&lng=-116.77784&themeId=DEFAULT-THEME&visualizationUrl=https://services.sentinel-hub.com/ogc/wms/bd86bcc0-f318-402b-a145-015f85b9427e&datasetId=S2L2A&fromTime=2023-07-12T00:00:00.000Z&toTime=2023-07-12T23:59:59.999Z&layerId=2_FALSE_COLOR&demSource3D="MAPZEN"
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Where are we looking?

1689523397016.png
 
Here
 

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I'm fairly sure that's just a Janet's 737, since that's where they have been parking.
See here for a picture and look in the same spot.

The Sentinel hub picture is just degraded in quality and mixes pixels together with the glare off the fuselage.
 
CiTrus90 said:
I'm fairly sure that's just a Janet's 737, since that's where they have been parking.
See here for a picture and look in the same spot.

The Sentinel hub picture is just degraded in quality and mixes pixels together with the glare off the fuselage.
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Don't realy look like a 737 , ok for the poor quality but the shape is strange... And it look so big..
 
dark sidius said:
Don't realy look like a 737 , ok for the poor quality but the shape is strange...
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Use Sentinel Hub to look at any airport during a sunny day.
That's what you're going to get most of the time and you won't be able to tell an aircraft from another, even more so if the glare from the sun hits just at the right angle.

Can you even tell there is another aircraft in front of the white blob in the picture (to the left of it)? It's smaller and grey in colour and impossible to identify either. Yet I don't see people being interested in that one.
 
Just for an example, here's what looks like a white flying wing, with a very swept wing via Sentinel Hub on false color band (top middle of the pic):
Calgary SH.jpg
But it's probably just a Dash-8 or A220 at Calgary Airport:
Calgary GM.jpg
I'd love to see a classified aircraft like the next guy here, but this time it's just low resolution pictures and pareidolia.
 

U.S. Air Force Leaders Talk Export Policy For New Programs At RIAT | Aviation Week Network

Export policy for some of the Air Force’s “more sensitive” new technology is being discussed this weekend at the Royal International Air Tattoo.
aviationweek.com aviationweek.com
In the past, Kendall has expressed openness to sharing B-21 technology with the Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF), although the Australian defense strategic review released in April ruled out the acquisition of a new bomber.
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But the Air Force still remains open to sharing some of its most sensitive technology with allies.
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Kendall declined to comment on the export prospects for the NGAD fighter, and instead pointed to another program as an opportunity.
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Short answer: NO. Better to keep it that way for the foreseeable future. I wouldn't want to even entertain the thought of Israel laying their hands on one and not selling the technologies to China in a heartbeat.
 
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X-39 said:

U.S. Air Force Leaders Talk Export Policy For New Programs At RIAT | Aviation Week Network

Export policy for some of the Air Force’s “more sensitive” new technology is being discussed this weekend at the Royal International Air Tattoo.
aviationweek.com aviationweek.com
Short answer: NO. Better to keep it that way for the foreseeable future. I wouldn't want to even entertain the thought of Israel laying their hands on one and not selling the technologies to China in a heartbeat.
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It is truly sad how overlooked this is... but nothing will be done about it.
 
In_A_Dream said:
It is truly sad how overlooked this is... but nothing will be done about it.
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Simple, don´t sell stuff you don´t want others peering into. Let´s say there is a reason why the F-22 was never seriously considered for export in the first place. And if it did, it would have taken substantial rework to accommodate to the needs of allied customers.
www.thedrive.com

F-22 Export Briefing Shows What It Would Have Taken To Sell The Raptor Abroad

For years, the idea of exporting the F-22 has been a topic of intense debate. Here's what the Air Force once thought it would take to get it done.
www.thedrive.com www.thedrive.com
 
I wasn't that surprised when they announced that the F-22 was not for sale, after all it was at the time THE most advanced fighter so the USAF were right. They would have to have stripped all the advanced technology that Lockheed put in to the F-22 and would have had to start again.
 
I was not expecting that news about Northrop Grumman going after the US Navy's F/A-XX program instead of the USAF NGAD, it will be interesting to see what happens when the F/A-XX down selects and who remains after.
 
www.defenseone.com

Northrop will not bid on Air Force’s new fighter

The company's decision leaves Boeing, Lockheed Martin to compete to build the Next Generation Air Dominance jet.
www.defenseone.com www.defenseone.com

Well, I’m frankly not sure how I feel about Northrop Grumman forgo bidding as a prime for USAF NGAD. It remains to be seen how they are positioning themselves for the naval F/A-XX, since beating the current Navy fighter incumbents, Boeing and Lockheed Martin, would be challenging but certainly not impossible.
 
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icyplanetnhc (Steve) said:
www.defenseone.com

Northrop will not bid on Air Force’s new fighter

The company's decision leaves Boeing, Lockheed Martin to compete to build the Next Generation Air Dominance jet.
www.defenseone.com www.defenseone.com

Well, I’m frankly not sure how I feel about Northrop Grumman forgo bidding as a prime for USAF NGAD. It remains to be seen how they are positioning themselves for the naval F/A-XX, since beating the current Navy fighter incumbents, Boeing and Lockheed Martin, would be challenging but certainly not impossible.
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Well with Raider and Sentinel plus industry stories you read about labor issues it could be about capacity.

Plus a question given the above if you’re the major “subprime” contractor and I’m guessing NGAD and F/A-XX will be closer to a partnership of primes there’ll still be massive amount of work and contract value (ie $$$)
 
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icyplanetnhc (Steve) said:
www.defenseone.com

Northrop will not bid on Air Force’s new fighter

The company's decision leaves Boeing, Lockheed Martin to compete to build the Next Generation Air Dominance jet.
www.defenseone.com www.defenseone.com

Well, I’m frankly not sure how I feel about Northrop Grumman forgo bidding as a prime for USAF NGAD. It remains to be seen how they are positioning themselves for the naval F/A-XX, since beating the current Navy fighter incumbents, Boeing and Lockheed Martin, would be challenging but certainly not impossible.
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While both services have stated they're open to shared systems on their aircraft, most credible analysis has pointed to the USAF and USN planes being quite different in specification. So I don't think there's much of a negative takeaway from them passing on a bid for the Air Force other than "well they may only have the resources to bid on one."

As for competing with LM and Boeing in a Navy program, the Grumman Iron Works pedigree should have them in fine shape. Even without that history, smart management will get you a long way. LockMart was unsuccessful with the Navy for a very long time yet haven't made any serious mess with F-35C.
 
Not a surprise. There is no way that the USG would pool the NGAD risk with the same prime contractor already working the Strategic Bomber and Minuteman replacement.

In some ways, this is a repeat of the ATF decision (award to Lockheed team) that was made when it looked like Northrop would build 132 B-2s.
 
raptor82 said:
……

Waaat？


https://twitter.com/x/status/1684557333949448192
View: https://twitter.com/dlt649/status/1684557333949448192?s=46&t=5THFve96Abhx7VANdlTzrg
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From this week's AvWeek:

A tiny crack has opened in the U.S. Navy’s closely guarded plans for a next-generation crewed fighter, with the White House confirming a relationship between the F/A-XX project and an apparent special access program code-named Link Plumeria.

The disclosure adds new depth to the Defense Department’s ongoing investment of more than $40 billion to develop a new family of Next-Generation Air Dominance (NGAD) technology for the Air Force and Navy, with the latter facing calls by some lawmakers for a potentially devastating budget cut in fiscal 2024.

But the funding for the F/A-XX program had been hiding all along under the Link Plumeria special access program (SAP) code name, which—although classified—ranked as the Pentagon’s fourth-largest research and development program.

The fiscal 2023-27 $11.5 billion budget for Link Plumeria in the fiscal 2023 request fell behind only the spending levels for the Air Force’s Ground-Based Strategic Deterrent, NGAD and Next-Generation Overhead Persistent Infrared programs. In fact, the requested budget for Link Plumeria exceeded the proposed $10 billion outlay in research and development for the Northrop Grumman B-21 Raider during the same period.
 
When it was reported earlier the primes/bidders for NGAD-AF were down to two, I already suspected NG was the one being out (as a prime).

The news as brought by Breaking Defense;
breakingdefense.com

Northrop not competing for NGAD sixth-gen fighter: CEO - Breaking Defense

Northrop CEO Kathy Warden did not rule out working on the Air Force's NGAD as a secondary partner, and indicated the company is still interested in the Navy's next-gen fighter.
breakingdefense.com breakingdefense.com
 
So the USAF NGAD program is down to two companies Boeing and Lockheed, looks like it is going to be the Joint Strike Fighter competition all over again.
 
FighterJock said:
So the USAF NGAD program is down to two companies Boeing and Lockheed, looks like it is going to be the Joint Strike Fighter competition all over again.
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Not sure how it could be any other way. NG was dropped from JSF for having a lift jet (among other things) and if they're going to be the prime on F/A-XX would they even have the bandwidth to prime NGAD as well? It's not like the F-22 / F-35 situation where there was roughly a decade between the programs. F/A-XX and NGAD will largely be in parallel.
 
My thoughts were it was between LM and NG and Boeing would end up with the F/A-XX due to their experience with Naval aviation. But with the B-21, I know the pentagon likes to spread the work around. Also, IIRC, NG shut down their TX program because they needed to concentrate on the B-21 and that was a much simpler program than the NGAD. So, it makes sense. Although, side note, fly the damned B-21 already! I'm tired of waiting. ;)
 
I think that it was the B-21 program that made the USAF drop NG from NGAD which would make sense as they do not want to put all their programs into one company. I do wish that NG would get the B-21 up and flying as well Sundog, what is taking them so long?
 
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